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Remember Chad Pennington..


BigOrangeJetFan

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couldn't do it.. we spent all our cap space on the poorest excuse for an nfl qb in the history of the league. The guy was awful

she was so physically outmatched and so brittle that all he could do was dink and dunk like a little girl to a league leading completion % but league worst production. It was pathetic

yeah exactly and you cant seem to put 2 and 2 together to see that if he actually had some players to get the ball to he would have been just fine. QB gets the ball to skill players and skill players make it happen. BTW Chad did not take up the entire salary cap and he was given that money for a reason and it was certainly not because he sucked.

 

Sure Injuries took their toll on him and he did not have the type of arm to throw a 20 yard out pattern dart but he was able to throw excellent timing patterns something no QB we have had since has been able to do. Because our WR corp sucks and has always sucked.

 

Guys like Nelson and Salas would be very nice additions to established Offenses and IMO would be great slot Receivers in those situations but to line them up as starters with a few weeks in an offense and expect production from a QB (any QB) Is ludicrous.

 

Just keep blaming the QB chan at some point when Idzik adds some talent you will see a difference, who the QB is at that time is anyone's guess. I do not think Smith is the answer hes a mistake clone of Sanchez who I think we broken down by lack of talent around him and morons for OC's.

 

While some may disagree I think Manziel would be a good call this draft without having to package a load of picks to get him

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yeah exactly and you cant seem to put 2 and 2 together to see that if he actually had some players to get the ball to he would have been just fine. QB gets the ball to skill players and skill players make it happen. BTW Chad did not take up the entire salary cap and he was given that money for a reason and it was certainly not because he sucked.

 

Sure Injuries took their toll on him and he did not have the type of arm to throw a 20 yard out pattern dart but he was able to throw excellent timing patterns something no QB we have had since has been able to do. Because our WR corp sucks and has always sucked.

 

 

He was given that contract cause he played hardball in negotiations with that weak hand Bradway and won, just like numerous other vets that were given bloated contracts. He was a better politician then a QB. Remember he was coming off a year in which he was injured and played extremely poorly including the 5 INT undressing by Belichick, Pennington said if he doesn't get a deal before the season he's not signing till the end of the season. And the deal he wanted was at the time was the biggest signing bonus (read: guaranteed) in football. Then like a politician, he had the nerve to tell the press he instructed his agent to make it team friendly, when it was anything but. The guy was scum and would do well in politics with his ability to aww shucks lie through his teeth.  At the end of the day, If Bradway doesn't do that deal before the season, he gets hurt (Again) in 04 and we resign him for 50% of what he got and don't have to put up with him beyond the disaster that was 05

 

re: timing...  his timing was terrible, never lead receivers, always behind them. He was the reason for no YAC.. not lack of playmakers. He just wasn't a good QB, he didn't even try to make plays, all he did was try and pad his stupid completion %. How many freaken check downs on 3rd and 11 did we see!

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He was given that contract cause he played hardball in negotiations with that weak hand Bradway and won, just like numerous other vets that were given bloated contracts. He was a better politician then a QB. Remember he was coming off a year in which he was injured and played extremely poorly including the 5 INT undressing by Belichick, Pennington said if he doesn't get a deal before the season he's not signing till the end of the season. And the deal he wanted was at the time was the biggest signing bonus (read: guaranteed) in football. Then like a politician, he had the nerve to tell the press he instructed his agent to make it team friendly, when it was anything but. The guy was scum and would do well in politics with his ability to aww shucks lie through his teeth.  At the end of the day, If Bradway doesn't do that deal before the season, he gets hurt (Again) in 04 and we resign him for 50% of what he got and don't have to put up with him beyond the disaster that was 05

 

re: timing...  his timing was terrible, never lead receivers, always behind them. He was the reason for no YAC.. not lack of playmakers. He just wasn't a good QB, he didn't even try to make plays, all he did was try and pad his stupid completion %. How many freaken check downs on 3rd and 11 did we see!

 

Ahh I get it so now one of the the most accurate QB's threw behind receivers and was actually not accurate ? Ok Chan good argument :rolleyes:

 

You see check downs when WR's are OVERMATCHED . Chad was proven by numerous film work from Jaworski to move through all his reads very quickly. If nothings there you take what you can get. Chad took check downs because that's all he had to take most of the time. Why ? Because the Jets WR's along with the lack of a competent TE began to take its toll on Chad forcing him into situations he might other wise have been able to avoid.

 

I think Chad Pennington would have won a SB with the NY Jets if he was given some offensive talent, unfortunately he was not given said talent and we will never know what we might have missed. Once again he was the perfect ball control short passing WCO QB . What would have suited him best was a top receiving RB, a big possession WR and a TE who could actually catch the football the other positions like WR 2 and Slot would have fell right into place. Chad had NONE of those . The Jets instead tried to fit number 2 and 3 WR's into number one slots and they got eaten alive by defenses. In the so called Chad Failure game against the Raiders Chad never had a chance His Receivers could not get open and they blitzed the hell out of him and he could never ever set in the pocket because we could not pick up the blitz. Anyone who puts that blame on Chad after he put up 41 the previous week is simply no paying attention and is just working on blind hatred

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Ahh I get it so now one of the the most accurate QB's threw behind receivers and was actually not accurate ? Ok Chan good argument :rolleyes:

 

You see check downs when WR's are OVERMATCHED . Chad was proven by numerous film work from Jaworski to move through all his reads very quickly. If nothings there you take what you can get. Chad took check downs because that's all he had to take most of the time. Why ? Because the Jets WR's along with the lack of a competent TE began to take its toll on Chad forcing him into situations he might other wise have been able to avoid.

 

I think Chad Pennington would have won a SB with the NY Jets if he was given some offensive talent, unfortunately he was not given said talent and we will never know what we might have missed. Once again he was the perfect ball control short passing WCO QB . What would have suited him best was a top receiving RB, a big possession WR and a TE who could actually catch the football the other positions like WR 2 and Slot would have fell right into place. Chad had NONE of those . The Jets instead tried to fit number 2 and 3 WR's into number one slots and they got eaten alive by defenses. In the so called Chad Failure game against the Raiders Chad never had a chance His Receivers could not get open and they blitzed the hell out of him and he could never ever set in the pocket because we could not pick up the blitz. Anyone who puts that blame on Chad after he put up 41 the previous week is simply no paying attention and is just working on blind hatred

 

 

he checked down cause he was yellow. And there is no way he'd have ever won a SB unless somehow he was facing the worst team in the league once he got there

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I love the "If only Chad hadn't gotten hurt" argument.

 

He was born to be weak and get injured.  He had a fragile body.  There's a reason one of his linemen said he was "Like an egg back there".  The QB position is for tough guys, not weaklings.  And you don't hand $64 million to a guy like that.  2nd worst decision this franchise ever made behind handing Mark Sanchez a contract extension.

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And you thinking the jest have actually had talent on offense at some point in the last 15 years other than a running game

 

The Jets organization sucks at finding offensive players.  No doubt about it.  But that in no way makes Chad Pennington or Mark Sanchez anything other than really bad and overpaid quarterbacks.

 

Why is that you think that the Jets org somehow has this ability to find good QB's who get ruined by lack of weaponz?  Isn't it simpler and more accurate to suggest that QB is another position we've been unable to properly evaluate over the years?

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The Jets organization sucks at finding offensive players.  No doubt about it.  But that in no way makes Chad Pennington or Mark Sanchez anything other than really bad and overpaid quarterbacks.

 

Why is that you think that the Jets org somehow has this ability to find good QB's who get ruined by lack of weaponz?  Isn't it simpler and more accurate to suggest that QB is another position we've been unable to properly evaluate over the years?

 

thing is Chad Pennington was not a bad QB . Was he a superstar no absolutely not but I think if the Jets made at least a small attempt to surround him with talent he would have been just fine.

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thing is Chad Pennington was not a bad QB . Was he a superstar no absolutely not but I think if the Jets made at least a small attempt to surround him with talent he would have been just fine.

 

He absolutely WAS a bad quarterback and more weapons would not have helped him.  He had a weak arm, was fragile, ALWAYS sh*t the bed against the above average or better defenses, and NEVER took responsibility for his mistakes.  Those are not the qualities of a $64 million quarterback.  If you're constantly having to make the other 10 guys and the defense better to make up for a guy's failures, he's NOT your franchise QB.  It's the reason why guys like Brees and Manning are worth what they're paid:  Despite allocating a huge % of your cap towards them and being unable to bring in elite weapons, the team wins. 

 

You need to quit this line of thinking that receivers are supposed to make a QB be good.  A QB should be intrinsically good and make his weapons....whoever they are....look better than they are.  He at least had guys like Laveranues Coles and Santana Moss to throw to, and even a Hall of Fame RB to hand off to for at least the tail end of his prime.  Many decent QB's have done more with less than Pennington ever did.  The book was written on Chad shortly after that 2002 season:  Dare him to throw something beyond his short dumpoffs and he was lousy. 

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thing is Chad Pennington was not a bad QB . Was he a superstar no absolutely not but I think if the Jets made at least a small attempt to surround him with talent he would have been just fine.

 

Yet somehow numerous of his receivers found far more success with other QBs than they ever did Chad.  Curious, isn't it?  It is simply your own assumptions that have led you to leap to the conclusion that Chad was not the issue, but the other offensive players were.  However, the evidence would seem to suggest the exact opposite, as Chad never found more success as his skill position players changed, while numerous of his skill position players found more success as their QB changed.

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Yet somehow numerous of his receivers found far more success with other QBs than they ever did Chad.  Curious, isn't it?  It is simply your own assumptions that have led you to leap to the conclusion that Chad was not the issue, but the other offensive players were.  However, the evidence would seem to suggest the exact opposite, as Chad never found more success as his skill position players changed, while numerous of his skill position players found more success as their QB changed.

 

So your talking about Moss and Coles

 

Coles and Moss did fine with Chad Both emerging talents when Chad Became the QB only to see them both go the following year to another team. Great Job by the Jets letting both get away after building a good connection with Chad. Typical Jets. Then Trade the emerging Moss for an oft injured Coles ... Priceless

 

Moss 74 Receptions 1105 yards 10 TD's With Chad  Redskins _ Moss 84 Rec 1483 Yards 9 TD's / Year 2 Moss 55 Rec 790 yards 6 Tds/ yr 3 Moss 61 rec 808 yards 3Tds'

 

Coles 89 Receptions 1264 Yards 5 TD's With Chad   Redskins _ Coles 82 Rec 1204 yards 6 TD's/year 2 Coles 90 Rec 950 yards 1 TD

 

Brett Favre didn't do that well with Coles not even close .

 

So give or take a few hundred yards when they went to Washington is certainly not the night and day comparison your trying to make it out to be. Your hanging on the one really good year Moss had in Washington the year after he finally emerged with the Jets . Your argument is flawed I just never bothered to point it out to you previously

 

Got any more fictitious  evidence for us BG ???

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So your talking about Moss and Coles

 

Coles and Moss did fine with Chad Both emerging talents when Chad Became the QB only to see them both go the following year to another team. Great Job by the Jets letting both get away after building a good connection with Chad.

 

You're pretty much done right here.  You really think this has any merit to it?  Your entire premise is based around the idea that it's everyone else's fault when players have more success without Chad than with him.  Your assertion is that it's a pure coincidence that two different players immediately saw more success the year after they left the Jets, and that they were destined to do the same with Chad, despite having no real basis for saying so.

 

Keep in mind, in BOTH of the two seasons you cited as supposedly proving something about Coles' and Moss' time in NY, Chad wasn't even starter for nearly half of either season!  Not to mention, you purposefully left out Moss' last season with the Jets, the one in which he and Chad played the most games together, that saw him put up a stat-line that was slightly better than half, in every category, of what he put up one year later with Mark Brunell as his QB.  In truth, Moss' stats declined in that last season with the Jets, which pretty much completely disproves your theory all on its own.  It's also interesting that, in one breath you're blaming Coles' age for his decrease in production upon returning to the Jets in 2005, asserting that it had nothing to do with Chad, yet in the next breath are trying to compare his 2002 stat line to his production with Favre at QB six years later, his fourth year after returning to the Jets, as some sort of evidence.  Well, which one is it?

 

Then, after all of that crap, you think you are in any position to throw in your little "fictitious evidence" barb at the end there?  Pathetic.

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  1. C'mon bleedin green - at least give Chad credit for working nicely with Coles. Those guys loved each other. And Chad worked great with Cotch too. He knew how to get those guys the ball in space and they would run well after the catch.

 

 

I'm not saying he didn't play well with them, not at all.  He obviously had some degree of success with a few different guys, but what I'm disputing is the idea that Chad was allegedly consistently brought down by his skill position players, while those some players were in no way limited by Chad.  My point is simply that there is evidence out there which suggests the exact opposite to be true.  Essentially the entire pro-Chad argument is an endless list of excuses as to why his failures were apparently never his own fault.

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You're pretty much done right here.  You really think this has any merit to it?  Your entire premise is based around the idea that it's everyone else's fault when players have more success without Chad than with him.  Your assertion is that it's a pure coincidence that two different players immediately saw more success the year after they left the Jets, and that they were destined to do the same with Chad, despite having no real basis for saying so.

 

Keep in mind, in BOTH of the two seasons you cited as supposedly proving something about Coles' and Moss' time in NY, Chad wasn't even starter for nearly half of either season!  Not to mention, you purposefully left out Moss' last season with the Jets, the one in which he and Chad played the most games together, that saw him put up a stat-line that was slightly better than half, in every category, of what he put up one year later with Mark Brunell as his QB.  In truth, Moss' stats declined in that last season with the Jets, which pretty much completely disproves your theory all on its own.  It's also interesting that, in one breath you're blaming Coles' age for his decrease in production upon returning to the Jets in 2005, asserting that it had nothing to do with Chad, yet in the next breath are trying to compare his 2002 stat line to his production with Favre at QB six years later, his fourth year after returning to the Jets, as some sort of evidence.  Well, which one is it?

 

Then, after all of that crap, you think you are in any position to throw in your little "fictitious evidence" barb at the end there?  Pathetic.

 

Only one who is pathetic is you my friend. Chad too over for Testaverde in 02 after the Jets posted a stellar 2-4 record  At that time Vinny had 500 yards passing in 6 games. In ten games chad put up 22 TD's and 90 % of the stats his receivers had were from him. The following year after suffering the broken hand Santana Moss hd 3 TD's in 6 games and 7 TD's in 10 with Chad. Your argument is based on hatred not facts. The fact is a the Jets did a piss poor job with Chad just like they did with Sanchez and now Geno. I think Sanchez had a shot to become a decent to good QB Geno is a disaster and most if not all of those failures are on the team and a terrible handling of QB's for the past 15 years. If the Jets surrounded their first round drafted QB's with talent we might be looking at a much different situation but they did not

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Only one who is pathetic is you my friend. Chad too over for Testaverde in 02 after the Jets posted a stellar 2-4 record  At that time Vinny had 500 yards passing in 6 games. In ten games chad put up 22 TD's and 90 % of the stats his receivers had were from him. The following year after suffering the broken hand Santana Moss hd 3 TD's in 6 games and 7 TD's in 10 with Chad. Your argument is based on hatred not facts. The fact is a the Jets did a piss poor job with Chad just like they did with Sanchez and now Geno. I think Sanchez had a shot to become a decent to good QB Geno is a disaster and most if not all of those failures are on the team and a terrible handling of QB's for the past 15 years

 

Yeah, Chad was better than Vinny both of those years; no sh*t, that wasn't the point.  That still doesn't change that he wasn't solely responsible for the stat-lines for which you were attempting to credit him.  You were misrepresenting the facts, and I simply was pointing it out.  You still are actually, as I noticed you continued to skip over the massive hole in your argument when it comes to Moss, considering his stats declined in his last year with the Jets/Chad, the year in which they played the most games together, before reaching nearly double those amounts a year later.  That itself contradicts your entire argument, at least for Moss.

 

So that really just leaves you with Coles.  Yet just earlier, you were the one dismissing his performance after the 2003 season.  So is the reason for all of Chad's failures because Coles wasn't there to have 10 good games with him in 2003?  Interesting to note, Chad had both Coles AND Moss in that 2002 disaster against the Raiders, and still had Moss (who did far more by himself than with Chad in that game) in the 2004 pants-sh*tting against Pittsburgh.  In those respective games, Coles and Moss were each in their last game with the Jets, and on the verge of their respective Pro Bowl seasons with Washington; a level that you allege they had already reached with Chad.  That would seem to negate any impact their departures had on two of the moments most distinctly remembered for Chad proving his vast limitations as an NFL QB.

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Look at the Jets past 24 years the only true number 1 WR they had was Keyshawn Johnson . During that same Span look at the TE's we have marched in and out of here. How many receiving RB;s have we had other than the washed up LT  ? Ritchie Anderson with Vinny at the helm and oh yeah we dumped him as well. Any WR who has shown to be good on this football team has been either traded or let go via FA

 

There you have it the three best supportive positions for a QB and we had NOTHING. Coles and Moss are Poor mans number 1's compared to what was around the NFL at that time and now as well.

 

Now our best WR is Holmes and hes not only a head case but hes lazy, inconsistent, and stupid.

 

I wonder how any QB is supposed to thrive in those conditions

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Yeah, Chad was better than Vinny both of those years; no sh*t, that wasn't the point.  That still doesn't change that he wasn't solely responsible for the stat-lines for which you were attempting to credit him.  You were misrepresenting the facts, and I simply was pointing it out.  You still are actually, as I noticed you continued to skip over the massive hole in your argument when it comes to Moss, considering his stats declined in his last year with the Jets/Chad, the year in which they played the most games together, before reaching nearly double those amounts a year later.  That itself contradicts your entire argument, at least for Moss.

 

So that really just leaves you with Coles.  Yet just earlier, you were the one dismissing his performance after the 2003 season.  So is the reason for all of Chad's failures because Coles wasn't there to have 10 good games with him in 2003?  Interesting to note, Chad had both Coles AND Moss in that 2002 disaster against the Raiders, and still had Moss (who did far more by himself than with Chad in that game) in the 2004 pants-sh*tting against Pittsburgh.  In those respective games, Coles and Moss were each in their last game with the Jets, and on the verge of their respective Pro Bowl seasons with Washington; a level that you allege they had already reached with Chad.  That would seem to negate any impact their departures had on two of the moments most distinctly remembered for Chad proving his vast limitations as an NFL QB.

 

your talking about 04 when Moss had 800 yards the same year he had Hamstring issues and didn't really get healthy until the playoffs . You seem to be forgetting that as well.  Most of Moss' years with the Skins when he did SOOOOO much better hovered around the 900 to 1000 yard mark your clinging to the one year he had 1400 yards and that's fine but it was not consistently what he did throughout his career.

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That was your original Quote ...Backpedaling a bit eh ?

 

reading_is_fundamental.jpg

 

Not backpedaling even the slightest bit.  Multiple WRs did have more success with other QBs than Chad.  It's simply the facts.

 

That does not mean that no receiver ever had any degree of success with him whatsoever, which is the straw man being presented.  After all, it's not like the guy never completed a single pass in his career.  There are plenty of sh*tty QBs, ones worse than Chad, who had WRs which had success playing with them; still doesn't mean the WR wouldn't/didn't find greater success with a better QB, and if/when that WR does go on to have more success elsewhere, them doing so doesn't make that the reason for said sh*tty QBs ultimate failures.

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Yeah, Chad was better than Vinny both of those years; no sh*t, that wasn't the point.  That still doesn't change that he wasn't solely responsible for the stat-lines for which you were attempting to credit him.  You were misrepresenting the facts, and I simply was pointing it out.  You still are actually, as I noticed you continued to skip over the massive hole in your argument when it comes to Moss, considering his stats declined in his last year with the Jets/Chad, the year in which they played the most games together, before reaching nearly double those amounts a year later.  That itself contradicts your entire argument, at least for Moss.

 

So that really just leaves you with Coles.  Yet just earlier, you were the one dismissing his performance after the 2003 season.  So is the reason for all of Chad's failures because Coles wasn't there to have 10 good games with him in 2003?  Interesting to note, Chad had both Coles AND Moss in that 2002 disaster against the Raiders, and still had Moss (who did far more by himself than with Chad in that game) in the 2004 pants-sh*tting against Pittsburgh.  In those respective games, Coles and Moss were each in their last game with the Jets, and on the verge of their respective Pro Bowl seasons with Washington; a level that you allege they had already reached with Chad.  That would seem to negate any impact their departures had on two of the moments most distinctly remembered for Chad proving his vast limitations as an NFL QB.

I do remember in that playoff year when Chad had a bad shoulder and was throwing even softer than usual, and guys were getting hung out to dry - I think Moss or Chrebet or someone else got injured trying to catch one of his lollipops.

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I do remember in that playoff year when Chad had a bad shoulder and was throwing even softer than usual, and guys were getting hung out to dry - I think Moss or Chrebet or someone else got injured trying to catch one of his lollipops.

 

Did you forget the 55 yard throw to Moss for a TD ? Not a bad toss with a torn RC that's not to say Chad had a good arm because he didn't  but he did ok vs the NFL's top defense and we should have won that game if not for 2 missed Field Goals No telling what might have happened after that.

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Did you forget the 55 yard throw to Moss for a TD ? Not a bad toss with a torn RC that's not to say Chad had a good arm because he didn't  but he did ok vs the NFL's top defense and we should have won that game if not for 2 missed Field Goals No telling what might have happened after that.

 

How exactly do you define "ok"?  Chad led the Jets offense to 3 points that day; you know, the same point total we got out of the Geno-led offense yesterday.  Perhaps I could concede to calling it 6 considering that would have been the case if Brien makes a kick (although there's no reality in which Brien would have attempted the 2nd kick if he had hit the 1st).  Either way, that's pretty terrible.

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Holy **** Smashmouth... Do any players you support ever not need a Homeric (the literature, not the fandom reference) diatribe of pardons for why they weren't actually the player you say they are when they're on the field?

Its very simple EY I have felt for the past 14 years that the Jets have done the worst job in the NFL when it comes to surrounding their QB's with talent. Maybe Cleveland and Miami could give us a run for our money in that dept. but we certainly hover in the bottom 5 of the league.

 

Just to clear it up I think Geno stinks and would stink no matter what he had just like some other QB's around the NFL

 

We will always disagree on Chad I think the guy got a bum deal here and you guys point to stats .....no way we are going to agree so the arguments we have are pointless. However over the years you yourself have stated its all about the QB and they are the ones who make everyone around them better. There has also been plenty of evidence that if said great QB's start losing skill players they begin to lose large chunks of production which would support my argument.

 

Brady and Ryan have struggled this year without their stars to throw too. As soon as Brady got Gronk back and had time to work with his young receivers he started to come back to the Brady of old. Matt Ryan ? not so Lucky since his offense is crippled even the guys out their playing are playing hurt.

 

Chad Pennington was a good QB and with the proper talent around him I think he would have been fine but we did a sh*tty job then and we did a sh*tty job with Sanchez and we're doing the same sh*tty job with Geno. Some things never change but Im hoping Idzik will change that.

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thing is Chad Pennington was not a bad QB . Was he a superstar no absolutely not but I think if the Jets made at least a small attempt to surround him with talent he would have been just fine.

 

He was not a bad QB, he was a TERRIBLE QB... I can't think of a player I'd like less

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