Everything I am hearing is 2 Horse race: Whisenhunt or Bevel

[ZachEY]

The contract extension was devised largely to clear cap space that the guru had used up. I doubt Rex was consulted much on how much guaranteed money to hand anyone.

 

No.  But you'd have to assume he was consulted as to the decision that we are going to ensure that this guy is your starter for more years.

 

The specifics of the contract are on Tannenbaum, but no way Tannenbaum gives an extension without consulting the HC.

[#27TheDominator]

Rex Ryan says nice things about every player on the team.  That included Kerry Rhoades and Gholston when they were here.  He also tends to exaggerate.  The fact that he said nice things about Sanchez and that he wanted him falls in the category of treating Mark as one of his guys.  As for being "blown away by Freeman" I have not seen that.  I don't think I ever saw him mention Freeman outside of Mark or saying some bullsh*t the week before they play Tampa (Rex can beat Freeman with Kellen Clemens at QB)

[ZachEY]

I am not, and never was really high on Idzik, but mostely because I question anyone willing to take the job with Rex being a condition.

 

 

I don't see this as an issue.  It's year one, and most people saw this type of season coming.  They're a little better thanks to some gift wins than expected, but any time you take a GM job, it's likely you're taking one on a bad team, and you need some foresight beyond year one.  If anything, Idzik bought himself a complete Do-Over year.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

What an awful QB class that was.  Why was anyone enamored with ANY of those prospects?

 

Agree, including Stafford who sucks as well.

[ZachEY]

ok so to cherry pick, Rex understands defense. That's at least something. the Gm doesn't understand how to draft players and the owner doesn't understand how to be a good owner. Firing Rex is getting rid of the only above average part of this team. Yes they could do better than above average (in theory) but in practice who would want Idzik deciding starting lineups and Woody deciding tebow is a great signing etc. A really good head coach doesn't want this job. 

 

Are you opinions ever made after seeing what happens?  Or do you just decide before hand the way things are, and stick to them regardless.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I don't see this as an issue.  It's year one, and most people saw this type of season coming.  They're a little better thanks to some gift wins than expected, but any time you take a GM job, it's likely you're taking one on a bad team, and you need some foresight beyond year one.  If anything, Idzik bought himself a complete Do-Over year.

 

I may be overthinking it, but the way I see it is this:

 

A young exec who is considered GM material may only get one opportunity if he is not successful.

 

Idzik would eventually get his shot if not with the Jets than with someone else.

 

NY is a place where if you don't win quickly, you could be gone quickly.

 

If Rex gets axed this year, and the team is atrocious next year and the stands are empty, Woody will be looking to do anything he can to get fans back as quickly as possible.

 

What does that mean? Probably going out and getting the biggest name he can find for as much money as it takes, which would probably mean the end of Idzik as most of those type of guys want to bring their own GM in or be the GM.

 

If I am a GM candidate considering NY of all places, the last thing I want to do is give up a year, but as I said I could be overthinking things.

[#27TheDominator]

I may be overthinking it, but the way I see it is this:

 

A young exec who is considered GM material may only get one opportunity if he is not successful.

 

Idzik would eventually get his shot if not with the Jets than with someone else.

 

NY is a place where if you don't win quickly, you could be gone quickly.

 

If Rex gets axed this year, and the team is atrocious next year and the stands are empty, Woody will be looking to do anything he can to get fans back as quickly as possible.

 

What does that mean? Probably going out and getting the biggest name he can find for as much money as it takes, which would probably mean the end of Idzik as most of those type of guys want to bring their own GM in or be the GM.

 

If I am a GM candidate considering NY of all places, the last thing I want to do is give up a year, but as I said I could be overthinking things.

 

The year was given up by the salaries BEFORE the GM job was taken.  We all knew they would suck this year. Have known it for a while.  I think Jason had a piece back in 2010 or 2011 discussing how they would need to reset in 2013.  He didn't give up a year.  Tannenbaum did.

[faba]

Yes Idzik is a disaster GM after one year- but Rex is good after 5 years- I get it.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

The year was given up by the salaries BEFORE the GM job was taken.  We all knew they would suck this year. Have known it for a while.  I think Jason had a piece back in 2010 or 2011 discussing how they would need to reset in 2013.  He didn't give up a year.  Tannenbaum did.

 

I agree.

 

That said, when a new HC is hired, it usually involves new systems, which take time for players to learn. This year should have been the learning year so that at least what, half? of the roster is familiar with the systems?

 

All I am saying is if next year is really bad, which is entirely possible, Idzik may not get a third year.

[ZachEY]

I may be overthinking it, but the way I see it is this:

 

A young exec who is considered GM material may only get one opportunity if he is not successful.

 

Idzik would eventually get his shot if not with the Jets than with someone else.

 

NY is a place where if you don't win quickly, you could be gone quickly.

 

If Rex gets axed this year, and the team is atrocious next year and the stands are empty, Woody will be looking to do anything he can to get fans back as quickly as possible.

 

What does that mean? Probably going out and getting the biggest name he can find for as much money as it takes, which would probably mean the end of Idzik as most of those type of guys want to bring their own GM in or be the GM.

 

If I am a GM candidate considering NY of all places, the last thing I want to do is give up a year, but as I said I could be overthinking things.

 

I don't think Idzik gets axed after two years.  Just don't see it.  They're not going to go through the have to keep a coach process, and they're not going to sign a coach to a one year deal.  

 

When Tannenbaum  was fired, he was the longest tenured GM in the league to not have a super bowl appearance.  Idzik will get his time.  I don't see any way he doesn't get 4 full years on the job.

[ZachEY]

Yes Idzik is a disaster GM after one year- but Rex is good after 5 years- I get it.

 

Makes sense!

[bitonti]

How does understanding defense translate to being above average as a HC? I just don't get that.

 

i didnt say he was an above average HC  (altho one could make that argument)

 

what I said was his understanding of defense was one of the only above average aspects of this team 

 

he outcoached sean peyton h2h and other big names like brady and manning. what does ken whisenhunt or darrell bevell do thats above average?

[ZachEY]

what does ken whisenhunt or darrell bevell do thats above average?

 

Perhaps they consider that offense is a thing?

[bitonti]

Are you opinions ever made after seeing what happens?  Or do you just decide before hand the way things are, and stick to them regardless.

 

ive seen Rex Ryan be the winning est playoff coach in Jets history is that what we are talking about? 

[Jacked4JetsFB]

i didnt say he was an above average HC  (altho one could make that argument)

 

what I said was his understanding of defense was one of the only above average aspects of this team 

 

he outcoached sean peyton h2h and other big names like brady and manning. what does ken whisenhunt or darrell bevell do thats above average?

 

 

Well I don't think being above average defensively is really all that much for a HC.

 

I personally am not sold on either Bevell or Whisenhunt, so don't ask me that question. I would say that Bevell at a bare minimum as been a part of the development of successful QB's. That is not something we can say for Rex, and since the QB position is by far the most important part of the team, that at least says something.

[ZachEY]

ive seen Rex Ryan be the winning est playoff coach in Jets history is that what we are talking about? 

 

That's like the special olympics gold medalist.

 

But no, we're talking about how you decided you were anti-Idzik before he even did a thing.

 

Apparently Idzik "doesn't understand how to draft players" despite having the potential defensive rookie of the year on the team.

 

Kind of like how you decide that he will only bargain shop in the future based on a year when he really had no choice because there was no money to spend.

[Jetsfan80]

ive seen Rex Ryan be the winning est playoff coach in Jets history is that what we are talking about? 

 

True statement.  But that was 3 years ago.  No matter what perspective Idzik takes Rex looks bad here.  Either he takes into account the 4 years prior, in which the team regressed the second half of that term, OR he only takes into account this year, when the team started 5-4 then has gotten blown out 3 straight weeks.

 

I'd love to see what Rex can do with a real QB.  But it's very possible he's a big reason why we DON'T have a real QB.  We need a front office, scouting team, AND Head Coach who understands offense better.  Otherwise we'll be left behind in the NFL.  We had Terry Bradway screaming for Russell Wilson and yet he was apparently ignored by everyone, because we didn't take him.  That was a death knell for Tannenbaum, and Rex's hands aren't entirely clean.

 

I think our defense will be still be good with our revamped D-Line.  But our offense stands to improve greatly with an offense-minded HC and a complete change in personnel.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I don't think Idzik gets axed after two years.  Just don't see it.  They're not going to go through the have to keep a coach process, and they're not going to sign a coach to a one year deal.  

 

When Tannenbaum  was fired, he was the longest tenured GM in the league to not have a super bowl appearance.  Idzik will get his time.  I don't see any way he doesn't get 4 full years on the job.

 

Your probably right.

 

I just don't think I would ever take a job in which the most important part of my staff is forced upon me and not my say, which is why a few of the highly thought of candidates would not even interview with the Jets.

[ZachEY]

Well I don't think being above average defensively is really all that much for a HC.

 

Again, what does Rex offer the Jets as HC that he wouldn't as DC?

[ZachEY]

True statement.  But that was 3 years ago.  No matter what perspective Idzik takes Rex looks bad here.  Either he takes into account the 4 years prior, in which the team regressed the second half of that term, OR he only takes into account this year, when the team started 5-4 then has gotten blown out 3 straight weeks.

 

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

[ZachEY]

Your probably right.

 

I just don't think I would ever take a job in which the most important part of my staff is forced upon me and not my say, which is why a few of the highly thought of candidates would not even interview with the Jets.

 

Who were these candidates again?

 

It wasn't ideal, but honestly, having to keep a coach in a year in which you (if you understand football as well as you should being a GM candidate) knew this team was going to be a loser, is not that big of a deal.  The truth is, you may want to put your systems and guys in place, but most of the team will be new next year anyway.  There's a half a dozen guys worth keeping around on this team, and beyond that, there's 50M to get some other guys who might matter, who the new coach and the GM can collaborate on.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Again, what does Rex offer the Jets as HC that he wouldn't as DC?

 

Preaching to the choir here.

 

I would even take it a step further and say does he offer anything as a DC that other DC's cannot offer? I think he is a good defensive guy, but some act like he is the only one in the league who gets defense.

 

Without being able to put his CB's on an island, his defense looks rather pedestrian.

 

It can stop the run however.

[Pac]

This.

I thought this was common knowledge, thus assumed slats was trolling - because he sounds ridiculous excusing Rex of having influence on the Sanchez pick.

Rex hand-picked quite a bit of the players while Tanny was here. Sanchez was just the first. If you don't want to Google old articles, then watch Hard Knocks... Rex spent plenty of time in front of the camera applauding himself for picking guys.

The story behind Rex making the Plaxico signing a mandate is probably the most revolting of all of them.

Poppycock.

Unfortunately for you my mind is like a steele trap and I distinctly recall rex saying he's given 1 pick a draft in the late rounds. You can blame him for the terminator. But you can also thank him if Davis continues to improve.

[Jetsfan80]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

 

I believe I should be praised for being open-minded.  Thanks in advance.

[Jacked4JetsFB]

Who were these candidates again?

 

It wasn't ideal, but honestly, having to keep a coach in a year in which you (if you understand football as well as you should being a GM candidate) knew this team was going to be a loser, is not that big of a deal.  The truth is, you may want to put your systems and guys in place, but most of the team will be new next year anyway.  There's a half a dozen guys worth keeping around on this team, and beyond that, there's 50M to get some other guys who might matter, who the new coach and the GM can collaborate on.

 

I don't remember the names and I don't really feel like looking it up right now, but I am pretty sure at least a few candidates turned the interview request down, but maybe I am wrong.

 

To be clear, I think Idzik needs time to make this his team before we can really evaluate. I do think there are some things that I look at and really scratch my head at.

 

Also some things I like, I thought he handled the Revis situation to perfection.

[#27TheDominator]

I agree.

 

That said, when a new HC is hired, it usually involves new systems, which take time for players to learn. This year should have been the learning year so that at least what, half? of the roster is familiar with the systems?

 

All I am saying is if next year is really bad, which is entirely possible, Idzik may not get a third year.

 

 

If next year is really bad he won't deserve a third year.  

[Jacked4JetsFB]

I believe I should be praised for being open-minded.  Thanks in advance.

 

You should!

 

Kudos!

 

Most people are not open minded. They take a stance and it becomes their religion that they will fight to the death over. Not naming names here.......

[bitonti]

Well I don't think being above average defensively is really all that much for a HC.

 

I personally am not sold on either Bevell or Whisenhunt, so don't ask me that question. I would say that Bevell at a bare minimum as been a part of the development of successful QB's. That is not something we can say for Rex, and since the QB position is by far the most important part of the team, that at least says something.

 

let's be honest he's way above average defensively. he's a 3-4 guru who has his own branch on the coaching tree. when guys like Bob Sutton and Mike Pettine experience success it's part of the Rex Ryan (buddy ryan) coaching tree. Jeff Fisher and Mike Munchak are other HC's from that tree. 

 

but all that aside, saying Bevell developed Russell Wilson is neither provable or all that impressive. If he could develop Geno Smith that would be a miracle worker. If he shows up and determines Geno stinks and the need to draft a new QB... well REx can do that.

[ZachEY]

I think our defense will be still be good with our revamped D-Line.  But our offense stands to improve greatly with an offense-minded HC and a complete change in personnel.

 

I'd hate to lose the #1 rush defense in the NFL.

 

 

shhhhhhhhh... Don't mention being outside the top 10 in yards and YPG... Don't mention the #25 pass defense...  Or #25 in PPG (despite the flaws in this stat due to pick sixes)... Don't mention that they still have under 10 turnovers generated...  Don't mention the leagues worst point differential.... 

[Jacked4JetsFB]

If next year is really bad he won't deserve a third year.  

 

Well, I would say there is a rather good chance of that happening. It is going to take a lot to fix this mess.

 

I think at some point next year you need to see signs of hope from the team that better days are ahead. 

[Integrity28]

Poppycock.

Unfortunately for you my mind is like a steele trap and I distinctly recall rex saying he's given 1 pick a draft in the late rounds. You can blame him for the terminator. But you can also thank him if Davis continues to improve.

 

I also remember him saying that, but because I'm not a moron I also realize that players are also able to be added via free agency and trade: Plaxico Burress, Santonio Holmes

 

Hand-picked.

 

Tony Sporano. Hand-picked.

 

You are outside your mind if you don't think Rex has influenced the hell out of this roster over his 5 years... and naive as sh*t.

[flgreen]

Rex isn't getting fired

 

 

Rich Cimini @RichCimini

Rex Ryan says #Jets have "A+" draft class. Translation: My boss is great.

17m

Beat Writer / Columnist

[Jetsfan80]

If next year is really bad he won't deserve a third year.  

 

While it's possible to turn this ship around in 1 offseason, I don't think it's likely enough to say that a bad 2014 = Idzik should be fired automatically.  His first offseason was spent cleaning up after Tannenbaum's mistakes.  His 2nd offseason is the massive overload.  Unless your expectation is to get a breakout rookie QB in this draft, or for him to go on some spending spree just to shoot for 8-8, I think you have to give Idzik until the end of the 2015 season at minimum and reevaluate at that time. 

[Jetsfan80]

 

Rex isn't getting fired

 

 

Rich Cimini @RichCimini

Rex Ryan says #Jets have "A+" draft class. Translation: My boss is great.

17m

Beat Writer / Columnist

 

 

Idzik isn't Tannenbaum.  I don't think he much cares what people say about him.

[bitonti]

That's like the special olympics gold medalist.

 

But no, we're talking about how you decided you were anti-Idzik before he even did a thing.

 

Apparently Idzik "doesn't understand how to draft players" despite having the potential defensive rookie of the year on the team.

 

Kind of like how you decide that he will only bargain shop in the future based on a year when he really had no choice because there was no money to spend.

 

this whole conversation is misguided. There's a reason why coaches make 10x less than QBs. we shouldn't be talking about who to fire to make the Jets better. we should be talking about what players will make the Jets better through draft and FA.

 

cause coaches coach and players play. Firing Idzik doesn't improve this team any more than firing Rex does. But Rex is at least proven to be a great defensive coach. Idzik is proven at nothing.  if you give Rex or any other HC a better QB,WR etc the team will be better.