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Everything I am hearing is 2 Horse race: Whisenhunt or Bevel


SouthernJet
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Yeah, the people calling for Bevell are definitely the crazy ones.

I'm pretty sure he isn't calling for MM, he is just using 2+2=4 thinking, and telling people that MM being the next HC is very possible, and in his opinion that is a huge mistake, hence the use of "be careful for what you wish for"!

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There is almost zero chance this happens.

 

If Rex gets fired, its because Woody is convinced that Rex is no longer good for ticket sales.

 

There is no way you can sell Marty to this fanbase, none.

 

The only reason it is not completely zero, we are still the Jets and do lots and lots of really, really dumb sh*t.

Woody needs to finally realize that the owner, the HC, the GM, and the ******* hotdog guy in name alone doesn't sell tickets, WINNING, and only WINNING does!

You guys including me are all wasting our time arguing over the blame inside the Jets organization, the finger should be pointed at 1 person, and 1 person only Woody Johnson, until he sells, or stops being involved with the team operations in all aspects nothing will change outside of a top 5 all time QB magically falling into the Jets lap!

So to quote from dumb, and dumber (fitting I know) for you optimistic thinkers here "so your saying there is a chance"!

Yes, but I'm not holding my breath as long as Woody owns the Jets.

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I'm pretty sure the 1 year we had Plaxico Burress the normally putrid, sorry worst offense before, and since in the redzone was ranked #1 most of the season, and finishing in the top 5 at the end of the season, now I can't say without a doubt Plax (or a Plax like player) was the reason (most give Moore as a consultant the credit), but I think I would be inclined to argue it was without being considered a complete moron to even think he was a big reason for that improvement that season.

So I say WTF was wrong with the Plaxico signing? And if it was so bad then why did a so called top well respected organization like the Steelers sign him after he left here?

If Rex made that call kudos!

Plaxico was completely worthless outside of the red zone. He was so slow and got zero separation. He was so bad he was out of football following the season. Yeah, big kudos. Pfffft.

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Woody needs to finally realize that the owner, the HC, the GM, and the ******* hotdog guy in name alone doesn't sell tickets, WINNING, and only WINNING does!

You guys including me are all wasting our time arguing over the blame inside the Jets organization, the finger should be pointed at 1 person, and 1 person only Woody Johnson, until he sells, or stops being involved with the team operations in all aspects nothing will change outside of a top 5 all time QB magically falling into the Jets lap!

So to quote from dumb, and dumber (fitting I know) for you optimistic thinkers here "so your saying there is a chance"!

Yes, but I'm not holding my breath as long as Woody owns the Jets.

Woody is a complete ass hat.

That does not make Rex any more competent.

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Last year he had the #1 pass D, they took away his 2 starting Safties, and his best CB who was healthy (talking Cromartie, not Revis) went from elite to average overnight, and has a rookie CB starting on the other side. Last year the run D was bad, so in 1 year Rex went from bottom 5 in the league against the run to #1 once he got a nice influx of talented front 7 players, so if he gets a nice infusion of talented players in the secondary I have full confidence Rex can turn around the passing D in 1 year, he has proven it before multiple times with 2 different teams, and one year here without Revis!

Lifetime contract extension!

Defensive mastermind.

Our Defense would be 32nd in the league in every category without Rex!

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Plaxico was completely worthless outside of the red zone. He was so slow and got zero separation. He was so bad he was out of football following the season. Yeah, big kudos. Pfffft.

So, Mariano Rivera would be worthless if you never had a lead in the 9th! I know mind blowing stupid statement, just wanted you to see what your statement above looks like.

Now if we gave him 5 years 50 million like Holmes, then yea bad move, but 1 year, good move.

He wasn't out of football completely, the Steelers signed him, but he got hurt in his 1st few games.

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So, Mariano Rivera would be worthless if you never had a lead in the 9th! I know mind blowing stupid statement, just wanted you to see what your statement above looks like.

Now if we gave him 5 years 50 million like Holmes, then yea bad move, but 1 year, good move.

He wasn't out of football completely, the Steelers signed him, but he got hurt in his 1st few games.

Seriously, comparing Plaxico post leg shooting to Mariano Rivera is as bad a comparison as you can make.

He signed with the steelers for a few games after they had other injuries, he did absolutely nothing, then was out of football again.

You really cannot slice it any other way than he sucked really bad after he shot himself in the leg and went to jail. And to make matters worse, he was a prick in the locker room.

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No, but probably in the 20's, like the 7 seasons before him, all with defensive HC's.

Lifetime contract extension for Rex!

Get him 6 more first rounders on the defense so we can have a top 5 defense once and for all.

Let's try to win games 4-3, two safeties to a field goal since we can't score on offense with Rexy.

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Lifetime contract extension for Rex!

Get him 6 more first rounders on the defense so we can have a top 5 defense once and for all.

Let's try to win games 4-3, two safeties to a field goal since we can't score on offense with Rexy.

So putting words in people's mouths is how you try, and prove your points?

I would like to see him with a competent QB that is all, I also believe in continuity in NFL franchises.

Quick question how many times would the NY media, and NY fan base have called for M Lewis to be fired in Cincy? And IMO Rex Ryan is a better HC then Lewis, he kicked his ass in the playoffs on the road with a rookie QB. M. Lewis and bad QB's have been 4 win seasons, with good QB, and beast WR, playoffs almost every season, Zero playoff wins, and yet he still has a job, and nobody is complaining about his contract extension he got last year.

Half the problem with the Jets is the fact they let the agenda driven media, and impatient what have you done for me lately fans like you affect their football decisions.

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Interesting point - how bad is a bad coach?

 

Case in point - not like the Chargers are much better off without Norv Turner (same goes for the Skins or Raiders).  therefore is Norv Turner a bad coach - or was it a case of not having enough talent?

 

On the flip side you have a coach like Marty Schott - great motivator, great coach, but just too darn conservative to ever win a big game - he's had championship talent at every position but never produced.

 

My beef with Rex is his blatant disregard for the importance of offense....you are the head coach not just the DC.  I can see his attitude moving the locker room towards finger pointing.  Everyone starts the season as great teammates but friction grows as Rex has everyone believing that if it weren't for the offense...Rex undermines and divides his own locker room. 

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I'm pretty sure the 1 year we had Plaxico Burress the normally putrid, sorry worst offense before, and since in the redzone was ranked #1 most of the season, and finishing in the top 5 at the end of the season, now I can't say without a doubt Plax (or a Plax like player) was the reason (most give Moore as a consultant the credit), but I think I would be inclined to argue it was without being considered a complete moron to even think he was a big reason for that improvement that season.

So I say WTF was wrong with the Plaxico signing? And if it was so bad then why did a so called top well respected organization like the Steelers sign him after he left here?

If Rex made that call kudos!

 

He was otherwise worthless, and his presence kick-started the dissension from Holmes and inhibited our incapable of building for the future leadership from drafting WR talent.

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So putting words in people's mouths is how you try, and prove your points?

I would like to see him with a competent QB that is all, I also believe in continuity in NFL franchises.

Quick question how many times would the NY media, and NY fan base have called for M Lewis to be fired in Cincy? And IMO Rex Ryan is a better HC then Lewis, he kicked his ass in the playoffs on the road with a rookie QB. M. Lewis and bad QB's have been 4 win seasons, with good QB, and beast WR, playoffs almost every season, Zero playoff wins, and yet he still has a job, and nobody is complaining about his contract extension he got last year.

Half the problem with the Jets is the fact they let the agenda driven media, and impatient what have you done for me lately fans like you affect their football decisions.

 

Re Rex with a competent QB, I would have liked to see that too. However instead of trying to make sure his hand picked QB was competent, in 2011 he decided Sanchez was good enough to win with a deteriorated OL and garbage for receivers, so that he could go after Asomgua and try to build the best defense of all time. That was his choice, his mistake, not mine, not the agenda driven media's.

 

You Rex apologists have this ridiculous notion that the only way to get a good QB is to get lucky. It's complete nonsense. You put Andy Dalton on this team and he is as bad as Geno or Sanchez. We will never get the overall 1 or 2 pick with Rex as HC because he is a good enough DC to keep us from hitting the skids like that, so what that means is we will have to hit the QB lottery and find a great QB either later in round 1 or later in the draft, which USUALLY requires development, which Rex has shown he has no ability to do whatsoever.

 

There are two ways to build an offense in this league, get an elite QB somehow, or get a serviceable QB and put a lot around him. This is what the Giants did, and were rewarded with 2 SB's.

 

If you want to sit and wait around 15 years for Rex to get an elite QB by luck, you are entitled. But to sit back and say this is agenda driven media is complete BS. I have a brain and can think for myself. I don't give a rats ass what any media member thinks.

 

Rex lucked into his early success, thats right, LUCK! He has proven to be completely incompetent at everything related to being a HC except for running the defense. If that is good enough for you, again, you are entitled. It's not good enough for me. I want a competent coach who knows how to either develop a modern day offense, or is competent enough to bring someone in who can develop a modern day offense. I want a competent coach who can identify and develop their own talent. 

 

Rex is not that guy, and will never be that guy.

 

The real problem with the Rex apologists is you have let the horrid history of this franchise allow you to think that mediocre is acceptable. I want more as a fan who has been buying season tickets for 30+ years and puts their heart and sole into this franchise. Hoping to luck into playoff spots and 2 out of 5 winning seasons is not enough for me.

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Link?

 

You don't need a link, if you've paid attention the past few years. Holmes was a fine team mate until Plax got here. Then the two of them started down the divisive path of approaching coaches about the QB, dropping quotes to the media about the QB letting the team down in particular games, etc.

 

When Mason got added to the mix it just got worse, the veteran receiver group was basically splintering the team. Mason had to be made an example of. Eventually Holmes quit on the team.

 

Look at the drafts from the past 4 years. Other than Hill and Kerley, no true investment was made in the WR position. Probably the 2nd most important position on offense (with the way the rules are now) after QB, and just before LT.

 

Link? GFY

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You don't need a link, if you've paid attention the past few years. Holmes was a fine team mate until Plax got here. Then the two of them started down the divisive path of approaching coaches about the QB, dropping quotes to the media about the QB letting the team down in particular games, etc.

 

When Mason got added to the mix it just got worse, the veteran receiver group was basically splintering the team. Mason had to be made an example of. Eventually Holmes quit on the team.

 

Look at the drafts from the past 4 years. Other than Hill and Kerley, no true investment was made in the WR position. Probably the 2nd most important position on offense (with the way the rules are now) after QB, and just before LT.

 

Link? GFY

 

I know Rex oversaw that mess, and we never should have brought in so many Divas at once...... but doesn't Sanchez deserve partial blame for that too?  It's supposed to be his huddle out there.  It's no mystery that Sanchez ruined receivers and not the other way around.  Jerricho Cotchery, the most sure-handed Jet receiver who is having a great season in Pittsburgh, all of a sudden got a case of the drops playing with Sanchez. 

 

And don't forget, as much of a punk as Burress was and how done-zo he was with us, he still somehow caught 8 TD passes that year. 

Edited by Jetsfan80
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 The real problem with the Rex apologists is you have let the horrid history of this franchise allow you to think that mediocre is acceptable. I want more as a fan who has been buying season tickets for 30+ years and puts their heart and sole into this franchise. Hoping to luck into playoff spots and 2 out of 5 winning seasons is not enough for me.

 

there are 32 teams every year 31 are considered losers. You may not want to accept mediocre (or any result short of a ring) but hope in one hand piss in the other and see which fills up first. Jets fans want a ring. Big deal get in line. Wanting it isnt enough. Firing coaches every 5 years isn't enough. You do have to get lucky to some extent. And by the way Andy Dalton on this team they are a playoff team. He's a competent QB most of the time which is more than we can say for Geno.

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Coaches coach, Dom. GMs operate in an entirely different facility with no windows or means of communication with the rest of the franchise.

 

 

They can communicate all they want, but you will rarely hear a coach bad mouth a high draft pick on their team unless the guy has a poor work ethic.  In April and May everybody is so happy with their new toys.  I am not saying the coaches have no input.  I am saying that believing what a coach says to the press is questionable. Rex in particular. 

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there are 32 teams every year 31 are considered losers. You may not want to accept mediocre (or any result short of a ring) but hope in one hand piss in the other and see which fills up first. Jets fans want a ring. Big deal get in line. Wanting it isnt enough. Firing coaches every 5 years isn't enough. You do have to get lucky to some extent. And by the way Andy Dalton on this team they are a playoff team. He's a competent QB most of the time which is more than we can say for Geno.

 

I don't like firing coaches so often any more than you do.  But it makes more sense in the NFL today to have a HC who understands offense a lot better than Rex does.  Is it possible that Sanchez and Geno are almost entirely to blame for Rex's lack of success?  Sure.  Especially in Sanchez's case. 

 

But if finding a QB that can get you to the playoffs and get hot when you arrive there is what matters most in the NFL today, we need every one of this franchise's resources to be in a position to make that happen.  Rex signed on to drafting Sanchez and signed on to extending Sanchez.  Even if he had nothing to do with Geno being his QB, he's more a part of the problem than he is a part of the solution. 

 

I've said many times that I like Rex, but his support of Sanchez and the need for Idzik to bring in his own guy were the 2 biggest reasons I'd be OK with going in another direction.  Those 2 reasons make even more sense in light of our play (and Geno's) the last 3 games.

 

We don't need the defense to be perfect for this team to succeed.  But we DO need a competent offense.  Ask yourself....is Rex the guy that that will oversee a COMPETENT offense in the near future, given the evidence we have at hand?  How long do we wait to stumble into a true franchise QB, instead of trying to find a good one who can elevate his game when the time comes (like a Flacco or Eli) with a combination of surrounding talent and coaching?

Edited by Jetsfan80
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there are 32 teams every year 31 are considered losers. You may not want to accept mediocre (or any result short of a ring) but hope in one hand piss in the other and see which fills up first. Jets fans want a ring. Big deal get in line. Wanting it isnt enough. Firing coaches every 5 years isn't enough. You do have to get lucky to some extent. And by the way Andy Dalton on this team they are a playoff team. He's a competent QB most of the time which is more than we can say for Geno.

 

Sticking with an incompetent coach because he can coach a defense is not enough, sorry, it just is not.

 

You can sit around and blame everyone else for Rex's shortcomings if you want to, and it makes you feel better. I choose to be a realist.

 

Look, I loved Rex. I was skeptical, but I thought he was a breath of fresh air for this franchise. I still think the guy can coach.

 

But I don't think he is good enough of a coach to have this fear of losing him, he has way too many flaws.

 

Rather than sitting around hoping we luck into a real QB, I would much rather be proactive and bring in a staff who can identify and develop one. If we happen to get lucky and find a great one, we will be in that much better of a position with a staff who knows what they are doing at the QB position.

 

What is 100% clear to me is that Rex has no frigging clue on the QB position, zero. Idzik by forcing Geno to be the starter early, and now, has zero clue on the QB position. Marty? Not sure, all I know about Marty is he had literally no other opportunities other than the Jets, and it's a very good bet that he would have taken a different opportunity if one arose. This is as bad of an OC job as their is given Rex's status, and the roster status.

 

So lets say we extend Rex, 4 more years. Where do we go next??

 

Do we draft another QB and pray? 2 more QB's and pray? Do we fire Marty and hope to bring in someone else?

 

What is the plan to get a real QB in here, because hope is not a strategy!

 

Rex is simply not good enough to overcome his major flaws, especially when his strengths are on the wrong side of the ball, and they are vastly overrated.

 

As for this notion that change is bad, BS. The second a coach is proven incompetent, they should be gone. Sitting around waiting for them to miraculously get it is not the answer. The NFL rosters turn over so fast nowadays their is just not as much benefit as their used to be.

 

Marvin Lewis and the Bengals brought in tremendous talent around Dalton. If you think throwing to the guys Dalton is throwing to somehow would translate to the Jets offense you are delusional and simply don't understand football.

 

Again, for anyone who is on board with extending Rex, what the heck is the strategy, and don't give me hope to find a QB, it is BS copout garbage.

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Re Rex with a competent QB, I would have liked to see that too. However instead of trying to make sure his hand picked QB was competent, in 2011 he decided Sanchez was good enough to win with a deteriorated OL and garbage for receivers, so that he could go after Asomgua and try to build the best defense of all time. That was his choice, his mistake, not mine, not the agenda driven media's.

You Rex apologists have this ridiculous notion that the only way to get a good QB is to get lucky. It's complete nonsense. You put Andy Dalton on this team and he is as bad as Geno or Sanchez. We will never get the overall 1 or 2 pick with Rex as HC because he is a good enough DC to keep us from hitting the skids like that, so what that means is we will have to hit the QB lottery and find a great QB either later in round 1 or later in the draft, which USUALLY requires development, which Rex has shown he has no ability to do whatsoever.

There are two ways to build an offense in this league, get an elite QB somehow, or get a serviceable QB and put a lot around him. This is what the Giants did, and were rewarded with 2 SB's.

If you want to sit and wait around 15 years for Rex to get an elite QB by luck, you are entitled. But to sit back and say this is agenda driven media is complete BS. I have a brain and can think for myself. I don't give a rats ass what any media member thinks.

Rex lucked into his early success, thats right, LUCK! He has proven to be completely incompetent at everything related to being a HC except for running the defense. If that is good enough for you, again, you are entitled. It's not good enough for me. I want a competent coach who knows how to either develop a modern day offense, or is competent enough to bring someone in who can develop a modern day offense. I want a competent coach who can identify and develop their own talent.

Rex is not that guy, and will never be that guy.

The real problem with the Rex apologists is you have let the horrid history of this franchise allow you to think that mediocre is acceptable. I want more as a fan who has been buying season tickets for 30+ years and puts their heart and sole into this franchise. Hoping to luck into playoff spots and 2 out of 5 winning seasons is not enough for me.

So signing Plaxico, Holmes, and Mason that same year wasn't an attempt to give Sanchez weapons to be that competent QB with LT, and Keller in place? Yes the players were wrong but the attempt all be it failed was there, and that is why the GM was fired that's his job to evaluate the proper talent, and if he let Rex dictate who he picked then shame on him, Rex's job is to coach the players, and he does a damn good job at that, not be a GM!

I also can't remember a better 2 year stretch than 09, 10 under Ryan with a rookie QB that this franchise ever had, so yes I want to give Rex another shot with a properly built revamped talented roster for a 2nd time just like Marvin Lewis, B Cohwer, and a bunch of others in the NFL as coaches got!

The rest of your statement is drivel I couldn't even read.

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 Again, for anyone who is on board with extending Rex, what the heck is the strategy, and don't give me hope to find a QB, it is BS copout garbage.

 

the strategy for keeping Rex and the strategy for replacing Rex is the same: Fix the WR corp, find a real TE and draft a QB every year until you have a Franchise level player. All of this has to happen whether Rex is here or not. 

 

Regarding Dalton, he does have great targets but he also understands the basics of the position like how to take a snap from center and how to read the whole field and find the hot route. 

 

personally I am not super-wedded to the idea of Rex, like I was wedded to the idea of not trading Revis (a bad move btw in hindsight they had more than enough room to pay  the best CB in football). I understand coaches need to change every so often. I just don't see how this team gets much better by a coaching swap.

 

the problem is not the coaching, no matter how much we'd like to convince ourselves this is Rex fault. the talent level is tiny and frankly, for this team to have even 5 wins is exceeding expectations. The roster is a tire fire.  You all say Rex is incompetent, I don't see any direct evidence of that. If you want to talk about the win loss record, Rex is still above water on his career. 

 

my theory is that Jets fans want to believe that all they need is a new coach and everything will be awesome. There's a reason why great QBs make 15-20 mil and great HCs make 5 (btw no great HC will come here willingly). So we are looking at another first time HC like Bevell or retreads like Marty or the Whizzinator. None of these guys are really upgrades, not even on paper.

Edited by bitonti
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You don't need a link, if you've paid attention the past few years. Holmes was a fine team mate until Plax got here. Then the two of them started down the divisive path of approaching coaches about the QB, dropping quotes to the media about the QB letting the team down in particular games, etc.

When Mason got added to the mix it just got worse, the veteran receiver group was basically splintering the team. Mason had to be made an example of. Eventually Holmes quit on the team.

Look at the drafts from the past 4 years. Other than Hill and Kerley, no true investment was made in the WR position. Probably the 2nd most important position on offense (with the way the rules are now) after QB, and just before LT.

Link? GFY

If Plax was the problem and not Mason, and Holmes followed suit shame on both for spouting off the truth that everyone in the media, on this board, and the NFL already knew, or come to know soon after that Sanchez, and Schotty were both sh*tty at their jobs, and they called like they saw it!

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I also can't remember a better 2 year stretch than 09, 10 under Ryan with a rookie QB that this franchise ever had, 

 

 

cmon dude that was 3 years ago. 3 YEARS! if he doesn't do it every year it's firing time. Bring in someone who's never head coached a team before cause that will solve all the problems. 

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They can communicate all they want, but you will rarely hear a coach bad mouth a high draft pick on their team unless the guy has a poor work ethic. In April and May everybody is so happy with their new toys. I am not saying the coaches have no input. I am saying that believing what a coach says to the press is questionable. Rex in particular.

I agree with you.

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I know Rex oversaw that mess, and we never should have brought in so many Divas at once...... but doesn't Sanchez deserve partial blame for that too?  It's supposed to be his huddle out there.  It's no mystery that Sanchez ruined receivers and not the other way around.  Jerricho Cotchery, the most sure-handed Jet receiver who is having a great season in Pittsburgh, all of a sudden got a case of the drops playing with Sanchez. 

 

And don't forget, as much of a punk as Burress was and how done-zo he was with us, he still somehow caught 8 TD passes that year. 

 

8 TDs isn't a big deal - there are #3 and #4 WRs in this league that crash into about 8 TDs every year. Doesn't make them special. It makes them a beneficiary of circumstance. The long story short here is that Plaxico was someone Rex green-lit, and the dude was absolutely terrible for this team.

 

You don't blame the QB for a WRs drops either. Those drops were on Cotchery. So was him losing a step.

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If Plax was the problem and not Mason, and Holmes followed suit shame on both for spouting off the truth that everyone in the media, on this board, and the NFL already knew, or come to know soon after that Sanchez, and Schotty were both sh*tty at their jobs, and they called like they saw it!

 

Regardless of the truth about Sanchez, you don't take your sh*t to the media and divide the team. Players like that are garbage, regardless of what they can do on the field.

 

Holmes and Plax were the same way in Pittsburgh, and Big Ben didn't suck. Some people just can't have a job without hating their boss or their co-workers. These are selfish, miserable people that cannot function as a team. I've been surrounded by assholes like this my whole career... no matter where you go, who you work for, some people are just divisive. 

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