I thought I had this figured out, now I am confused

[sourceworx]

Agreed. They should, and hopefully, will bring in a veteran non-sanchez QB to compete with Geno, as well as a rookie should the value be there at any of their picks. Teddy possibly being the lone exception, although I'm not completely sold on his readiness yet, there doesn't seem to be someone in this crop of potential rookie QBs that you'd be willing to just hand the offense over to from week 1, so even if we landed Hundley/Fales/Bortles etc. unless the veteran lights it up, we're looking at Geno starting week 1. So best scenario for us right now is that Geno finishes out the season strong going into the off-season.

 

 

I'd be fine going into next season with Geno, a veteran like Kyle Orton, and a mid-round draft pick (unless they really like Simms). Orton can be a serviceable starter, if needed.  It's a good insurance policy in case Geno doesn't show improvement.

[T0mShane]

You're better off going 0-16 than relying on Kyle Orton to play significant snaps for your team.

[sourceworx]

You're better off going 0-16 than relying on Kyle Orton to play significant snaps for your team.

 

So you're expecting Bevell to flop as our coach next year?????

[SenorGato]

So you're expecting Bevell to flop as our coach next year?????

 

Bevell can't flop. He coaches offense PLUS coaching tree. Plus either way it's a New Direction for the franchise by finally picking an offense first coach in the first place...

[sourceworx]

Bevell can't flop. He coaches offense PLUS coaching tree. Plus either way it's a New Direction for the franchise by finally picking an offense first coach in the first place...

 

 

This alone means it'll work.

[slats]

Bevell can't flop. He coaches offense PLUS coaching tree. Plus either way it's a New Direction for the franchise by finally picking an offense first coach in the first place...

It's true. I often find myself yearning for the days of Bruce Coslet.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'd be fine going into next season with Geno, a veteran like Kyle Orton, and a mid-round draft pick (unless they really like Simms). Orton can be a serviceable starter, if needed.  It's a good insurance policy in case Geno doesn't show improvement.

 

I think it's obvious they do not really like Simms.

[BroadwayJoe12]

You're better off going 0-16 than relying on Kyle Orton to play significant snaps for your team.

 

As far as the future, definitely, but for a backup taking over from Geno or whomever, we could do worse. As sad as it his, his '08-'10 numbers would be the best QB play this franchise has seen in about a decade. 60% completion percentage on 500 attempts per year, 59 tds to 32 ints and 7 Y/A while not good, is something that could get us to the playoffs if the defense plays well and allows our hopefully already on the roster development QB to learn a bit before being put in.  

 

I agree that I don't want that guy or Schaub anywhere near our starting position on opening week, but we could do worse as a backup...and somehow we have for the past 6 years. I guess it depends on if you'd rather punt a season for a better draft pick or make the playoffs with a no-future vet at the helm.

[pedro55]

I think it's obvious they do not really like Simms.

 

   I honestly don't know what their issue is.  Last season they hated Tebow, hell, went out of there way to start McElroy, and then this season they cut McElroy anyway.  Tebow stinks as a QB, but he was here and was the backup.   Fast forward to this season and Simms is the backup, but they bring back a retire Garrard who never even suits up, but there are discussion around bringing him back or maybe even seeing if he can start.   Simms is not the answer, but the way this team seems to disregard their own backups makes no sense.

 

 It's almost like Rex and Staff and everybody else is afraid the backup will be better than the starter.  Last year Tebow vs Sanchez. This year Simms vs Smith.    

I guess if the backup shows they are better it makes Rex and staff look like idiots, who knows.  I just don't how they have backups they don't even want to play.  It's one thing if you have Aaron Rodgers or Brady as your starter. It's another when you have starting QBs who suck.      

 

 At this point, Geno should start the rest of the year, but again,  I dont' get why they hate their backups with a passion or so it seems.  Or maybe Simms is Simms son so it creates that issue.  And fans have wanted him in since Sanchez got hurt.    And Tebow, well he brings his Cult following wherever he goes.   But then that goes back to if you don't like that media and fan frenzy, why the hell do you bring in guys like that in the first place.   Cut Simms, keey Quinn.  Or Keep McElroy.   Never trade for Tebow.  Just odd.

[HessStation]

LOLELZZA

[Larz]

all I know is the jets beat the raiders

[neckdemon]

Do yourself a favor, and watch the game again, Geno was bad throwing the ball, almost every completion was to a wide open WR who had to jump, adjust, reach back for the ball, and they bailed him out time, and again. The only good pass Geno made all day was the Kerley TD pass.

The defense had 2 broken plays that went for 2 TD's, take those 2 plays away, and the Raiders score 6 points, they did not shread our defense.

 

 

actually the kerley td was a sh*tty pass. it was basically a jump ball with 2 jets and 3 raiders in the area, and luckily kerley came down with it

[CobraVerde]

[BroadwayJoe12]

actually the kerley td was a sh*tty pass. it was basically a jump ball with 2 jets and 3 raiders in the area, and luckily kerley came down with it

 

Not Geno's fault one of the guys ran the wrong route, which drew the extra defenders. He put the ball up there for his player to make a play and was rewarded. 

 

Just watched all of Calvin Johnson's tds in 2011 and while a lot of it is certainly Stafford making a great throw our CJ running a great route, there's a large number of plays where Stafford throws into double or triple coverage, which would fall under sh*tty pass by this definition. Sometimes it's just about putting the ball in a place where your receiver can either make a play or knock it down, Geno did that. Not upset with the call.

 

(2011 11 tds --> double coverage, jump ball single coverage, great throw beats safety help, great slant route beats single coverage, jump ball single coverage, beats double coverage with great throw, beats triple coverage on jump ball, burns double coverage, beats double coverage on slant, just burns the CB,  great throw and catch)

 

 

Edit: and these were only the TDs, this doesn't account for all the times Stafford and other QBs throw to their CJ, AJ Green, Fitzgerald's on 3rd and longs to be bailed out. We've just been unfortunate to have our best receivers be 5'10 and under for the last decade. 

[neckdemon]

Not Geno's fault one of the guys ran the wrong route, which drew the extra defenders. He put the ball up there for his player to make a play and was rewarded. 

 

Just watched all of Calvin Johnson's tds in 2011 and while a lot of it is certainly Stafford making a great throw our CJ running a great route, there's a large number of plays where Stafford throws into double or triple coverage, which would fall under sh*tty pass by this definition. Sometimes it's just about putting the ball in a place where your receiver can either make a play or knock it down, Geno did that. Not upset with the call.

 

(2011 11 tds --> double coverage, jump ball single coverage, great throw beats safety help, great slant route beats single coverage, jump ball single coverage, beats double coverage with great throw, beats triple coverage on jump ball, burns double coverage, beats double coverage on slant, just burns the CB,  great throw and catch)

 

 

Edit: and these were only the TDs, this doesn't account for all the times Stafford and other QBs throw to their CJ, AJ Green, Fitzgerald's on 3rd and longs to be bailed out. We've just been unfortunate to have our best receivers be 5'10 and under for the last decade. 

 

 

how do you even know the guy ran the wrong route? and even if you know for sure, geno's throws are mostly all sh*t and this was no exception. you can't always be results oriented. yeah the result was a td. but it was into a crowd and kerley bailed him out. geno is a ******* piece of sh*t and it's unfortunate we wasted a draft pick on him because he's total sh*t

 

I would agree if it were even a good decision or throw. but as a qb you have to see the field and the play develop. he might as well be tossing the ball up and then getting down onhis knees with his hands clamped saying "oh jesus holy mary mother of god hallelulah amen oh holy spirit please please"

[Jacked4JetsFB]

actually the kerley td was a sh*tty pass. it was basically a jump ball with 2 jets and 3 raiders in the area, and luckily kerley came down with it

Agree, it was a stupid play design as well.

[BroadwayJoe12]

how do you even know the guy ran the wrong route? and even if you know for sure, geno's throws are mostly all sh*t and this was no exception. you can't always be results oriented. yeah the result was a td. but it was into a crowd and kerley bailed him out. geno is a ******* piece of sh*t and it's unfortunate we wasted a draft pick on him because he's total sh*t

 

Agree, it was a stupid play design as well.

 

I know it was a wrong route, because offensive coordinators do not to design plays that have two guys in the same vicinity, let alone within the same 1 yard radius. The idea is to create mismatches, not design plays with a built in excuse to have the defenders out-number the receivers. It's the same way I knew there was a miscommunication on one of the pick-sixes a few weeks back with Kerley and Nelson in the same area. We can't extol Stafford and others for when they're receivers make big plays and criticize others for the exact same thing, you need consistency. 

 

You may have already formed your opinions and have them set in stone, but unfortunately you may have to get used to this "sh*tty quarterback" for another full season. Unless you want to pay big money to lure Cutler away from the Bears, stomach a season watching Matt Schaub helm our team or once again throw a rookie QB into the fire, Geno's probably going to be the guy until he plays  himself out of that starting role.

 

Geno's a rookie and for a majority of the season was either playing with walk-ons or guys who haven't practiced for a quarter of the year. Just because Allen Iverson says so, doesn't mean practice doesn't matter. If you don't show up and your QB doesn't know where you're going to be, that's a recipe for disaster. It's the #1 reason why Hakeem Nicks will not be wearing blue and white next year and instead be replaced by reuben randle.

[GimmeShelter]

Still think Geno is the man for the job, bad stretch of games in his rookie year or not. 

 

I thought he possibly was back in week 4. No way we go into next camp with him named the starter.

 

If he wins the job via his play in pre-season more power to him. He got the job by default this year and unfortunately we have not seen much since early November.

[neckdemon]

I know it was a wrong route, because offensive coordinators do not to design plays that have two guys in the same vicinity, let alone within the same 1 yard radius. The idea is to create mismatches, not design plays with a built in excuse to have the defenders out-number the receivers. It's the same way I knew there was a miscommunication on one of the pick-sixes a few weeks back with Kerley and Nelson in the same area. We can't extol Stafford and others for when they're receivers make big plays and criticize others for the exact same thing, you need consistency. 

 

You may have already formed your opinions and have them set in stone, but unfortunately you may have to get used to this "sh*tty quarterback" for another full season. Unless you want to pay big money to lure Cutler away from the Bears, stomach a season watching Matt Schaub helm our team or once again throw a rookie QB into the fire, Geno's probably going to be the guy until he plays  himself out of that starting role.

 

Geno's a rookie and for a majority of the season was either playing with walk-ons or guys who haven't practiced for a quarter of the year. Just because Allen Iverson says so, doesn't mean practice doesn't matter. If you don't show up and your QB doesn't know where you're going to be, that's a recipe for disaster. It's the #1 reason why Hakeem Nicks will not be wearing blue and white next year and instead be replaced by reuben randle.

 

 

no way geno is the qb next year. he makes terrible decisions, has terrible fundamentals, is woefully inaccurate, has poor pocket presence, exhibits very poor instincts and has inferior field vision. there is nothing about his game that is worthy of commending at all. in short he is a completely inept quarterback. I would much rather watch matt schaub over geno smith

[joewillie78]

no way geno is the qb next year. he makes terrible decisions, has terrible fundamentals, is woefully inaccurate, has poor pocket presence, exhibits very poor instincts and has inferior field vision. there is nothing about his game that is worthy of commending at all. in short he is a completely inept quarterback. I would much rather watch matt schaub over geno smith

Wow, Isnt it funny that you could simply insert the word "Mark", in place of "Geno" in this paragragh, and not have to rewrite one single word. Bravo.

[Lupz27]

no way geno is the qb next year. he makes terrible decisions, has terrible fundamentals, is woefully inaccurate, has poor pocket presence, exhibits very poor instincts and has inferior field vision. there is nothing about his game that is worthy of commending at all. in short he is a completely inept quarterback. I would much rather watch matt schaub over geno smith

Normally I would call out this overreaction, but I agree to your point, I think your a little over the top with the assessment, but I do think Geno has zero to offer as a true NFL QB other than the physical skills, will always look great in shorts like Sanchez, but when live bullets are flying can't slow it down, and understand what the right decision is, sometimes he will guess right, and look great doing it, but that's what I feel like it is, a guess.

[sirlancemehlot]

Sweet, merciful crap.  Geno is horrible, terrible, we are embarrassed by him, worst QB in the league, worst QB in the history of the league, Makes Sanchez look good. etc, etc, etc.

 

Completes a jump-ball TD on a broken play.

 

Geno was just having a rough stretch, he's just a rookie, Geno is good at running, Geno is the future, Etc. Etc. Etc.

 

Stop the madness, please.  Nothing has changed since beating the Godawful, injury-riddled, travelled three thousand miles, Oakland frreaking Raiders.  There is literally not a single, starting or backup QB that couldn't have beaten the Raiders yesterday. 

[BroadwayJoe12]

no way geno is the qb next year. he makes terrible decisions, has terrible fundamentals, is woefully inaccurate, has poor pocket presence, exhibits very poor instincts and has inferior field vision. there is nothing about his game that is worthy of commending at all. in short he is a completely inept quarterback. I would much rather watch matt schaub over geno smith

 

While I'm sure your quarterback evaluating skills are top notch, I think you may be being slightly hyperbolic here. Not to fall back on the comparisons to elite or highly touted quarterback routine, but you don't really think Andrew Luck, Manning, Brees et al just "bad-lucked" their way into throw 18, 28, 16 interceptions in their first years starting do you? I'm sure all those interceptions were the result of good decisions, but someone else made a mistake. It's simple: Rookie QBs make terrible decisions and mistakes, regardless of how good they turn out to be. Geno certainly does make terrible decisions, but he's also made good decisions that have been integral in every single one of our wins. He's shown inaccuracy, but he's also displayed that when he's able to set his feet, he can be quite accurate with the ball. His awareness certainly has to improve, especially feeling the safety coming from the outside, but that also takes time. His pocket presence is so exaggerated: how many times have you seen him step up into a pocket, only to run into a collapsing Winters or Mangold? A lot.  

 

His instincts have lead him to 4 pretty huge touch down runs and big first down pick ups, or are we considering only throwing the ball instincts? Not to mention the number of times he's dirted the ball on a broken play. It really just feels your taking buzz words for bad quarterback play and sticking them to Geno. 

 

The kid's got a lot of tools to work with, whether you see it or not. Maybe he turns out to be the real deal, maybe he doesn't, but I'm still betting dollars to pennies that he's our starting QB at the beginning of next season

[neckdemon]

While I'm sure your quarterback evaluating skills are top notch, I think you may be being slightly hyperbolic here. Not to fall back on the comparisons to elite or highly touted quarterback routine, but you don't really think Andrew Luck, Manning, Brees et al just "bad-lucked" their way into throw 18, 28, 16 interceptions in their first years starting do you? I'm sure all those interceptions were the result of good decisions, but someone else made a mistake. It's simple: Rookie QBs make terrible decisions and mistakes, regardless of how good they turn out to be. Geno certainly does make terrible decisions, but he's also made good decisions that have been integral in every single one of our wins. He's shown inaccuracy, but he's also displayed that when he's able to set his feet, he can be quite accurate with the ball. His awareness certainly has to improve, especially feeling the safety coming from the outside, but that also takes time. His pocket presence is so exaggerated: how many times have you seen him step up into a pocket, only to run into a collapsing Winters or Mangold? A lot.  

 

His instincts have lead him to 4 pretty huge touch down runs and big first down pick ups, or are we considering only throwing the ball instincts? Not to mention the number of times he's dirted the ball on a broken play. It really just feels your taking buzz words for bad quarterback play and sticking them to Geno. 

 

The kid's got a lot of tools to work with, whether you see it or not. Maybe he turns out to be the real deal, maybe he doesn't, but I'm still betting dollars to pennies that he's our starting QB at the beginning of next season

 

 

if i were being hyperbolic i would have said......geno smith is worse than getting dick cancer

 

as far as the 3 qb's you mentioned:

 

peyton manning at least threw some td's to go along with those int's

actually starting after his 7th game he improved alot:

 

20 td, 14 int

team averaged 23 points/game

 

drew brees threw more td's than int's

17 td, 16 int

team averaged 21 ppg

 

andrew luck also had:

 

23 td, 18 int

team averaged 22 ppg

and lets not forget he went to the play-offs with a 11-5 record

 

genover "the worst thing ever" smith (more hyperbole, lol)

9 td, 20 int

17 ppg

and in his last 8 games?

2 td, 12 int

16 ppg (would have been around 13 ppg if he didn't get to play against a team more injured than japan in the summer of '45

and.........and astonishing 5.7 interception %

 

i don't need superior qb evaluation skills to see that having geno as your qb is worse than if hitler had started a JCC franchise

[MexiRoll6]

I thought that Geno sucked, but this week with some actual NFL receivers on the field he remembers that he is fast and actual completes some passes.  I thought our team was a strong defensive team led by a defensive coach that was in search of an offense.  But, the defense was shreaded by a very average Oakland offense.  Should we just chalk this up to one game or are these just the teases that crappy teams and players give their fans?

Tease. Jets don't win another game this year.

[MexiRoll6]

I think it's obvious they do not really like Simms.

Nor do I. If Idzik is not satisfied with the progress of Geno I hope he gets a veteran FA, but NOT an Orton or Schaub - guys on their last legs - but a guy like Kirk Cousins or Ryan Mallett (who must hate seeing his career wasted sitting behind Brady) who can actually offer competition and make the QB position better.

[Sperm Edwards]

Nor do I. If Idzik is not satisfied with the progress of Geno I hope he gets a veteran FA, but NOT an Orton or Schaub - guys on their last legs - but a guy like Kirk Cousins or Ryan Mallett (who must hate seeing his career wasted sitting behind Brady) who can actually offer competition and make the QB position better.

 

There's probably as close to 0% chance as there can be that either Cousins or Mallet will be available to the Jets.  Neither is a free agent.  One is about to be named the starter over RGIII and the other is on the Patriots.  Can't even imagine the compensation required to get either.

 

I'm actually ok with a Schaub or Orton if we also pick up another developmental guy (and not a theoretical developmental guy like Simms; a real one) who is available via FA or in the draft.  If Geno ends up being 3rd string next year, so be it. If he doesn't like it then play better.

 

Don't know what the price would be for either (or which will be available, but not likely to be both) of Cutler or McCown. McCown, based on his play this season, would seem to be a great transitional guy (maybe more, though his career that's just now getting restarted will be winding down soon enough).  Cutler is impossible to say right now because it's anyone's guess what the price will be if he's even available.

 

Shaun Hill would be another I'd view similarly to McCown.  It was only pre-season (and though we didn't know then, we now know our pass D isn't really that hard to complete passes against), but he was deadly-accurate against us.  Not just completing passes, but really hitting the bullseye.  Every pass hit his target in the chest or hands and led him by 6-12" like it was a computer throwing it.  Obviously it was one game - one preseason game - but I'd see what he wants if the Lions don't extend him up before March.

 

No one else is even worth mentioning.  Chad Henne.  There, I mentioned him.  Do not want.

[Integrity28]

There's probably as close to 0% chance as there can be that either Cousins or Mallet will be available to the Jets.  Neither is a free agent.  One is about to be named the starter over RGIII and the other is on the Patriots.  Can't even imagine the compensation required to get either.

 

I'm actually ok with a Schaub or Orton if we also pick up another developmental guy (and not a theoretical developmental guy like Simms; a real one) who is available via FA or in the draft.  If Geno ends up being 3rd string next year, so be it. If he doesn't like it then play better.

 

Don't know what the price would be for either (or which will be available, but not likely to be both) of Cutler or McCown. McCown, based on his play this season, would seem to be a great transitional guy (maybe more, though his career that's just now getting restarted will be winding down soon enough).  Cutler is impossible to say right now because it's anyone's guess what the price will be if he's even available.

 

Shaun Hill would be another I'd view similarly to McCown.  It was only pre-season (and though we didn't know then, we now know our pass D isn't really that hard to complete passes against), but he was deadly-accurate against us.  Not just completing passes, but really hitting the bullseye.  Every pass hit his target in the chest or hands and led him by 6-12" like it was a computer throwing it.  Obviously it was one game - one preseason game - but I'd see what he wants if the Lions don't extend him up before March.

 

No one else is even worth mentioning.  Chad Henne.  There, I mentioned him.  Do not want.

 

 

Also, if you are going to add Cutler, you have to find a way to get Brandon Marshall with him... Cutlers stats are heavily reliant upon Marshall, but not the opposite for some reason. Either way... Cutler on his own doesn't fix as much as many here might wish.

[BroadwayJoe12]

if i were being hyperbolic i would have said......geno smith is worse than getting dick cancer

 

as far as the 3 qb's you mentioned:

 

peyton manning at least threw some td's to go along with those int's

actually starting after his 7th game he improved alot:

 

20 td, 14 int

team averaged 23 points/game

 

drew brees threw more td's than int's

17 td, 16 int

team averaged 21 ppg

 

andrew luck also had:

 

23 td, 18 int

team averaged 22 ppg

and lets not forget he went to the play-offs with a 11-5 record

 

genover "the worst thing ever" smith (more hyperbole, lol)

9 td, 20 int

17 ppg

and in his last 8 games?

2 td, 12 int

16 ppg (would have been around 13 ppg if he didn't get to play against a team more injured than japan in the summer of '45

and.........and astonishing 5.7 interception %

 

i don't need superior qb evaluation skills to see that having geno as your qb is worse than if hitler had started a JCC franchise

 

 

Everything you bring up is fine and good, but you're arguing with yourself. Their TD numbers are irrelevant as they do not negate the vast number of interceptions that they threw, which was the premise of my post. Rookie QBs make mistakes and whether you want to admit it or not, there was 25+ times that year where Peyton made a poor decision, unless you're going to stick to only Geno makes poor decisions and the other guys just "bad-lucked" their way into those interceptions.  

 

Is it any surprise that Geno completed 64% of his passes and had his best game in a month once he finally had Kerley, Holmes and Winslow on the field together for the first time since week 4 or 5? No. He may never turn out to be our franchise's QB, but you need to evaluate him once the season is over and not just for a rough three game stretch where he was throwing to a bunch of walk-ons and should-be-practice-squad players.

[Sperm Edwards]

Also, if you are going to add Cutler, you have to find a way to get Brandon Marshall with him... Cutlers stats are heavily reliant upon Marshall, but not the opposite for some reason. Either way... Cutler on his own doesn't fix as much as many here might wish.

 

I don't think Cutler's totally all that either, though he would be a clear upgrade.  But it's not like he turned into Sanchez without him.  2010 and 2011 he wasn't so God-awful and his starting WRs were Knox & Hester (not exactly Marshall & Jeffrey).

 

I don't think many here are unrealistic about what Cutler brings to the table.  No one thinks he's Aaron Rodgers (who the Packers seem to be useless without).

[Integrity28]

I don't think Cutler's totally all that either, though he would be a clear upgrade.  But it's not like he turned into Sanchez without him.  2010 and 2011 he wasn't so God-awful and his starting WRs were Knox & Hester (not exactly Marshall & Jeffrey).

 

I don't think many here are unrealistic about what Cutler brings to the table.  No one thinks he's Aaron Rodgers (who the Packers seem to be useless without).

 

No, no of course he's not Sanchez bad without Marshall. I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. I'm simply saying he's not even close to a top 5 guy without Marshall. He's obviously an upgrade to whoever we have, but he's far better with Marshall than without. Obviously.

[Sperm Edwards]

No, no of course he's not Sanchez bad without Marshall. I didn't say that, nor did I imply it. I'm simply saying he's not even close to a top 5 guy without Marshall. He's obviously an upgrade to whoever we have, but he's far better with Marshall than without. Obviously.

 

Then again, Cutler's not a top 5 guy with Marshall either.

[Integrity28]

Then again, Cutler's not a top 5 guy with Marshall either.

 

I know.... but to hear the "Cutler will fix everything sign this beast" crowd talk, it's pretty clear that is their expectation.

[Sperm Edwards]

I know.... but to hear the "Cutler will fix everything sign this beast" crowd talk, it's pretty clear that is their expectation.

 

Where have you heard that?

[Scott Dierking]

Shouldn't we first figure out the Jets future offensive philosophy and desired approach, and then get QB's that fit that model?

 

All I have heard in the last 5 years is either "ground and pound" or "we are looking to open things up"