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The other question besides Rex...


Freemanm
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EXTENSIONS FOR EVERYONE

 

 

Let's try this: you guys dig up a reputable source that says we were going to win 3 games this year, and we'll go from there.

Do you find this dude reputable?

@mortreport: I also think Rex Ryan has performed a mini-miracle winning 7 games with Jets!

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EXTENSIONS FOR EVERYONE

 

 

Let's try this: you guys dig up a reputable source that says we were going to win 3 games this year, and we'll go from there.

Can you also give me how many wins FO would give the Jets by subbing out G Smith at QB for a QB who would have put up the exact numbers of the league average in terms of QB play? And if its possible would they have the Jets winning more than 7 games? If not Rex is coach of the year, if taking out the worst QB in the league, and replacing him with the league average gives the Jets more wins (which logically it should) then the Jets would probably have clinched the 6th seed already, and the fire Rex conversations would be not happening!

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Can you also give me how many wins FO would give the Jets by subbing out G Smith at QB for a QB who would have put up the exact numbers of the league average in terms of QB play? And if its possible would they have the Jets winning more than 7 games? If not Rex is coach of the year, if taking out the worst QB in the league, and replacing him with the league average gives the Jets more wins (which logically it should) then the Jets would probably have clinched the 6th seed already, and the fire Rex conversations would be not happening!

They should have gotten one of those league-average QBs, I guess.

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I predicted the Jets would win seven games because there are five great teams in the league, four awful teams, and 23 teams that are the products of a parity-ridden garbage festival that makes it nearly impossible to finish more than +/- 2 games off of .500. Anyone predicting <4 wins was trolling.

 

I think some people really believed the Jets were going to be bad in the 3-5 win range.  A team that perhaps "should" have won 5-ish (as was a common prediction) could have gotten lucky or unlucky enough to get 2 more or 2 fewer wins.  

 

You really think it's impossible to finish with under 6 wins despite not being one of the (on-paper) 4 awful teams? Or for a non-elite/great team to win 11 or more? I think it is quite common.

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EXTENSIONS FOR EVERYONE

Let's try this: you guys dig up a reputable source that says we were going to win 3 games this year, and we'll go from there.

Let me ask you this. You've been quoting FO as predicting this record, therefore, no big accomplishment. In what scenario do you fire the coach for achieving his goal? (Or overachieving, depending on how you view it?)

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Let me ask you this. You've been quoting FO as predicting this record, therefore, no big accomplishment. In what scenario do you fire the coach for achieving his goal? (Or overachieving, depending on how you view it?)

 

Is 7-8 wins the goal in this league?  I thought winning the Super Bowl was the goal.  Rex has stated this over and over.  He's failed to do it in his 5 years here, which is why even he assumes (correctly) he's getting fired.

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Can you also give me how many wins FO would give the Jets by subbing out G Smith at QB for a QB who would have put up the exact numbers of the league average in terms of QB play? And if its possible would they have the Jets winning more than 7 games? If not Rex is coach of the year, if taking out the worst QB in the league, and replacing him with the league average gives the Jets more wins (which logically it should) then the Jets would probably have clinched the 6th seed already, and the fire Rex conversations would be not happening!

They control for Smith over Sanchez. I already broke down the percentages of the Jets winning more than 7 games in my response to Sperm. The rest of this is nonsense. Of course the projection would be higher if our QBs were better. Aunt, balls, uncle, etc.

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So the consensus among the Rex supporters is that he deserves a contract extension for taking this team from about a 5 or 6 win team (projected) to 7 or 8 wins.  Got it.

 

Nevermind the fact that in our losses the team has been complete garbage.  Nor the fact that we had a real shot at the playoffs before the team imploded with 3 straight blowout losses.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Let me ask you this. You've been quoting FO as predicting this record, therefore, no big accomplishment. In what scenario do you fire the coach for achieving his goal? (Or overachieving, depending on how you view it?)

My argument is simply with the woe-is-this-roster strawman, in which Rex is heroically dragging a 3-win team to the brink of .500. The only people who said this was a 3-win team before the season were chuckleheads at ESPN, who we all (rightfully) laughed at. What matters is Idzik's goal for this season (and how he views Rex's previous three seasons), which we're all clueless about. Using Mark Schlereth's Lock Of The Year as a proxy is wishful thinking, plain and simple.

Edited by dbatesman
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My argument is simply with the woe-is-this-roster strawman, in which Rex is heroically dragging a 3-win team to the brink of .500. The only people who said this was a 3-win team before the season were chuckleheads at ESPN, who we all (rightfully) laughed at. What matters is Idzik's goal for this season (and how he views Rex's previous three seasons), which we're all clueless about. Using Mark Schlereth's Lock Of The Year as a proxy is wishful thinking, plain and simple.

Well when your boss the owner of the team asks the fans to be patient that tells me they had a multi year plan, and in the first, and the year set up the worst of this plan Rex Ryan almost took this sh*t bag roster with the worst QB in the league to the playoffs, so yea I want the owner to also be patient with his HC as the multi year plan unfolds, and go from there!

And if he had no plan on being patient with the HC then he did the whole organization a disservice by keeping Rex here this season, and if he fires Rex it will further prove he is top 3 worst owner in the NFL by setting back the new building blocks a full season, and making them learn a whole new system in 2 years.

Edited by Lupz27
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So, now 7-8 and mathematically eliminated in week 15 is "almost" the playoffs?

Well with a good chance the Jets will have the same record as the team that gets into the playoffs, and lose out on tiebreakers, or miss by 1 game, then yea I would call that almost.

Just like if Arizona goes 11-5, and almost made the playoffs!

Edited by Lupz27
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I think some people really believed the Jets were going to be bad in the 3-5 win range. A team that perhaps "should" have won 5-ish (as was a common prediction) could have gotten lucky or unlucky enough to get 2 more or 2 fewer wins.

You really think it's impossible to finish with under 6 wins despite not being one of the (on-paper) 4 awful teams? Or for a non-elite/great team to win 11 or more? I think it is quite common.

I think it's as hard for an average team to go 2-14 as it is for an average team to go 14-2.

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So it is written.

I want to see a WR, couple upgrades on the o-line and improvement in defensive backfield, and i think we would look a lot better

 

I'd like to see a handful of WRs, including a couple of higher quality guys (one through the draft and one of the young-ish guys like Maclin or Nicks) brought in to take some jobs and overhaul that part of the depth chart. Probably a LG brought in - Gabe Jackson or David Yankey would be very welcome from the draft, especially Jackson. Then yeah...sign a safety and maybe a young vet CB (Vontae Davis if Rex and/or Thurman is still here and maybe even if they're not)...I'd like all of that more than a new head coach, especially a fifth straight first timer. 

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I'd like to see a handful of WRs, including a couple of higher quality guys (one through the draft and one of the young-ish guys like Maclin or Nicks) brought in to take some jobs and overhaul that part of the depth chart. Probably a LG brought in - Gabe Jackson or David Yankey would be very welcome from the draft, especially Jackson. Then yeah...sign a safety and maybe a young vet CB (Vontae Davis if Rex and/or Thurman is still here and maybe even if they're not)...I'd like all of that more than a new head coach, especially a fifth straight first timer.

Even if he coaches offense this time?

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My argument is simply with the woe-is-this-roster strawman, in which Rex is heroically dragging a 3-win team to the brink of .500. The only people who said this was a 3-win team before the season were chuckleheads at ESPN, who we all (rightfully) laughed at. What matters is Idzik's goal for this season (and how he views Rex's previous three seasons), which we're all clueless about. Using Mark Schlereth's Lock Of The Year as a proxy is wishful thinking, plain and simple.

I guess we just aren't going to see the same thing here, because when I look at the holes we had in Sept at QB, WR, OL, and the d-backs, all pretty much the most important parts of a successful club, I think Rex really did the best he could. This board has a whole crop of John Nashs on a predictive statistics kick all of a sudden- myself included- but using this logic we shouldnt even need a coach since the roster is capable of playing .500 ball without one. Obviously in the real world that makes no sense. So, who better than Rex? Bill O'Brien, Darrell Bevell? Whisenhunt? Gruden?

I guess my argument is thus; we had a first timer, he learned on the job. He didn't go to the IBM pro coach development program. His dad was a bad head coach. At least Rex finally brought in Mornhinweg. For the first time he has made a clear signal to get away from ground and pound and join the modern NFL. Let Idzik play with the roster, we can ride the Rex contract out, and everyone next year will be that much more accountable to their decisions and hopefully that yields the best efforts of all parties, Rex, Marty and Idzik included.

Btw I think what may be the issue is Rex's brashness being too recent in fans memory. He realized you cant boast your way into success. If he was humble the whole and had the same record I think he would get more benefit of the doubt.

Edited by BleedGreen314
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Well when your boss the owner of the team asks the fans to be patient that tells me they had a multi year plan, and in the first, and the year set up the worst of this plan Rex Ryan almost took this sh*t bag roster with the worst QB in the league to the playoffs, so yea I want the owner to also be patient with his HC as the multi year plan unfolds, and go from there!

And if he had no plan on being patient with the HC then he did the whole organization a disservice by keeping Rex here this season, and if he fires Rex it will further prove he is top 3 worst owner in the NFL by setting back the new building blocks a full season, and making them learn a whole new system in 2 years.

What you are basically saying by "disservice by Keeping Rex" is that Woody lied to the fanbase, and never really thought about retaining him for another year, especially with hiring a new GM? I would say this is about 100% correct, the owner basically lied to the fanbase.

 

Is this any different than an owner in week 15 saying this is our coach for the future and then whacking him after week 16.

 

Or the owner saying his job is safe, and then whacking him on Black monday? Or the owner saying that we have never talked to this or that coach about our coaching vacancy and then hiring the guy with contract in hand the NEXT day.

 

If we are to believe everything that comes out of our owners mouth, or any owner for that matter, then we are about the most Naive people in the world. (that is NFL fans)

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So you believe 31 coaches should be fired this year.

 

This is a strawman argument made without context.  Rex has had FIVE years to win a title, not one.  And our overall record has basically regressed.  From 9-7 and 11-5 his first 2 seasons to 8-8, 6-10 and now 7-8.  This does not warrant a contract extension.

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This is a strawman argument made without context.  Rex has had FIVE years to win a title, not one.  And our overall record has basically regressed.  From 9-7 and 11-5 his first 2 seasons to 8-8, 6-10 and now 7-8.  This does not warrant a contract extension.

 

It's not really a strawman when I'm responding to your own argument. Stating "context" as if you're considering the entire denigration of the roster over that period, is the real strawman.

Edited by BleedGreen314
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I guess we just aren't going to see the same thing here, because when I look at the holes we had in Sept at QB, WR, OL, and the d-backs, all pretty much the most important parts of a successful club, I think Rex really did the best he could. This board has a whole crop of John Nashs on a predictive statistics kick all of a sudden- myself included- but using this logic we shouldnt even need a coach since the roster is capable of playing .500 ball without one. Obviously in the real world that makes no sense. So, who better than Rex? Bill O'Brien, Darrell Bevell? Whisenhunt? Gruden?

I guess my argument is thus; we had a first timer, he learned on the job. He didn't go to the IBM pro coach development program. His dad was a bad head coach. At least Rex finally brought in Mornhinweg. For the first time he has made a clear signal to get away from ground and pound and join the modern NFL. Let Idzik play with the roster, we can ride the Rex contract out, and everyone next year will be that much more accountable to their decisions and hopefully that yields the best efforts of all parties, Rex, Marty and Idzik included.

Btw I think what may be the issue is Rex's brashness being too recent in fans memory. He realized you cant boast your way into success. If he was humble the whole and had the same record I think he would get more benefit of the doubt.

This is all fine; I think there are some legitimate arguments for keeping Rex. Surpassing an invented win projection is not one of them.

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It's not really a strawman when I'm responding to your own argument. Stating "context" as if you're considering the entire denigration of the roster over that period, is the real strawman.

 

Oh, so Rex had nothing to do with the roster decline.  I see. 

 

Your argument had nothing to do with that.  You stated that I think that 31 coaches should be fired, ignoring any context. 

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Oh, so Rex had nothing to do with the roster decline.  I see. 

 

Your argument had nothing to do with that.  You stated that I think that 31 coaches should be fired, ignoring any context. 

 

I considered saying 30 instead of 31, allowing for extension of whomever is the runner up in the Superbowl this year, but was too lazy to type it out this morning on the train. Now here with a holiday week at the office, I am on a keyboard and ready to discuss your "fire everyone who doesn't win the Superbowl" claim as long as you're willing.

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I considered saying 30 instead of 31, allowing for extension of whomever is the runner up in the Superbowl this year, but was too lazy to type it out this morning on the train. Now here with a holiday week at the office, I am on a keyboard and ready to discuss your "fire everyone who doesn't win the Superbowl" claim as long as you're willing.

 

Yes, because that's exactly what I'm saying.  Fire everyone who fails to win a Super Bowl after 1 season.  You're a genius.

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This is all fine; I think there are some legitimate arguments for keeping Rex. Surpassing an invented win projection is not one of them.

Yeah but surpassing which meaningless projection? FO? Vegas? ESPN talking heads? What's the magic number? I think he needs to beat Miami to have a shot. If he beats the fish next weekend, how do you fire a guy for going .500 in a rebuilding year? What I will say is the competition level this year in the whole league def dropped, but not by enough to invalidate going .500. Esp when Idzik himself said Rex over achieved.

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Yeah but surpassing which meaningless projection? FO? Vegas? ESPN talking heads? What's the magic number? I think he needs to beat Miami to have a shot. If he beats the fish next weekend, how do you fire a guy for going .500 in a rebuilding year? What I will say is the competition level this year in the whole league def dropped, but not by enough to invalidate going .500. Esp when Idzik himself said Rex over achieved.

 

Beating the Dolphins to knock them out of the playoffs would be a nice feather in the cap.  But the fact remains that the final 2 games of our schedule became meaningless after Week 15.  I think Idzik has probably made his decision one way or the other already.  Yesterday's win and this week's Miami game are pretty irrelevant. 

 

This is especially true when you consider that the Lions are already looking for a Jim Schwartz replacement without even having fired him yet, and Bill O'Brien has been fielding calls.  You can't sit on these decisions.  Either he's here or he's gone. 

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Yeah but surpassing which meaningless projection? FO? Vegas? ESPN talking heads? What's the magic number? I think he needs to beat Miami to have a shot. If he beats the fish next weekend, how do you fire a guy for going .500 in a rebuilding year? What I will say is the competition level this year in the whole league def dropped, but not by enough to invalidate going .500. Esp when Idzik himself said Rex over achieved.

 

I brought up FO because the same people who mocked the ESPN's ranking us 32nd before the season are now telling us that this was a 3-win team all along, but yes, to Idzik, they should all be meaningless. Rex isn't being graded against some outside standard set by John Clayton or Skip Bayless or Aaron Schatz or anyone else. He's being graded based on Idzik's knowledge his coaching style, the state of the roster, etc. We're all just pulling our pud on this.

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