#27TheDominator Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Someone tell me how they predicted greatness for Phil Simms through his first 4 years. I did watch almost every snap of his and he sucked. Alright he is no HOF'er, no matter what some Giants fans might think, but he was a better than serviceable super bowl QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Someone tell me how they predicted greatness for Phil Simms through his first 4 years. I did watch almost every snap of his and he sucked. Alright he is no HOF'er, no matter what some Giants fans might think, but he was a better than serviceable super bowl QB. Could it be the case that "Game manager" type QB's back then were more valuable? Then again, Seattle just won a Super Bowl with Russell Wilson, possibly the best "Game Manager" type QB in the league outside of maybe Alex Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 No one really knows how good most of these QB's are going to be. It's why Brady was taken in the 6th round and "slam dunks" like Leaf and Russell failed so horribly. Personality is huge. Most of these QB's coming out have talent. But do they have the personality to take charge in a huddle? The work ethic to look at more film than the rest of the pack? The ability to make pre-snap decisions that make the actual throw the easy part? You have to have both the ability and the personality, and it's hard to project that out of a 21-22 year old kid. People were enamored with Mark Sanchez based on his personality until, after the fact, people realized he was simply throwing to wide open WR's at USC and hadn't played enough games, particularly ones where he faced any kind of adversity. Quick judgments based on incomplete data always lead to disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Someone tell me how they predicted greatness for Phil Simms through his first 4 years. I did watch almost every snap of his and he sucked. Alright he is no HOF'er, no matter what some Giants fans might think, but he was a better than serviceable super bowl QB. At least one person here knew. Could tell just from watching him while he sucked, while half the Giants fans were thinking, "You know, maybe we've been too harsh on this Brunner guy." OK, nobody said that about Brunner. But I thought it was funny. Well, actually, maybe Parcells thought it. Kept Brunner around for years despite seeing how much Simms struggled (that is, when he could stay on the field). Dumb luck that Simms didn't get hurt in week 2 in '86. Besides, he threw more picks than TD passes that year anyway. Still, I don't think they'd have gotten quite as far with Rutledge. Like us in '99, except Vinny did get hurt and our Rutledge was Rick Mirer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 At least one person here knew. Could tell just from watching him while he sucked, while half the Giants fans were thinking, "You know, maybe we've been too harsh on this Brunner guy." OK, nobody said that about Brunner. But I thought it was funny. Well, actually, maybe Parcells thought it. Kept Brunner around for years despite seeing how much Simms struggled (that is, when he could stay on the field). Dumb luck that Simms didn't get hurt in week 2 in '86. Besides, he threw more picks than TD passes that year anyway. Still, I don't think they'd have gotten quite as far with Rutledge. Like us in '99, except Vinny did get hurt and our Rutledge was Rick Mirer. Parcells didn't. He sure seemed to give Brunner every opportunity. Then again, he was the one that stuck on Rick Mirer for so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Parcells didn't. He sure seemed to give Brunner every opportunity. Then again, he was the one that stuck on Rick Mirer for so long "The #2 pick in the draft when I took Bledsoe a few years ago. And look how cheaply we got him!! I am so smart. Woooooooo sewwwwwperbowwwwl!! Just kidding. But it doesn't matter anyway because Testaverde isn't going to get hurt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Could it be the case that "Game manager" type QB's back then were more valuable? Then again, Seattle just won a Super Bowl with Russell Wilson, possibly the best "Game Manager" type QB in the league outside of maybe Alex Smith. Russell Wilson is dramatically better than Alex Smith. In fact I think he is easily better than Luck. He's just not asked to do as much, rather than not capable as has been demonstrated in the few games where Wilson had to air it out to win or come back and puts up big numbers in those games like the Divisional game against Atlanta last year. He was not a game manager in the SB either, he made play after play on 3rd down, and when the completely stacked the box who ripped Denver apart with passing. He is #1 in passing rating and total touchdowns in his first two years and a SB champion. If you too RW and put him on Indy and asked him to throw as much as Luck does his numbers would be as good or better than Lucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 No one really knows how good most of these QB's are going to be. It's why Brady was taken in the 6th round and "slam dunks" like Leaf and Russell failed so horribly. Personality is huge. Most of these QB's coming out have talent. But do they have the personality to take charge in a huddle? The work ethic to look at more film than the rest of the pack? The ability to make pre-snap decisions that make the actual throw the easy part? You have to have both the ability and the personality, and it's hard to project that out of a 21-22 year old kid. People were enamored with Mark Sanchez based on his personality until, after the fact, people realized he was simply throwing to wide open WR's at USC and hadn't played enough games, particularly ones where he faced any kind of adversity. Quick judgments based on incomplete data always lead to disaster. I think the real issue is that back in the day these guys did not start unless they were surefire knockout hits. First pick in the draft guys. Those guys always were something. In the old days guys it was acceptable and even expected for a 2nd round pick like Stabler to sit behind the Mad Bomber, an "old" rookie like Staubach to sit behind Morton, etc, etc. It was the way of the world then. Now these guys are immediately thrown to the wolves. It's harder to tell if they're going to sink or they're going to swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Russell Wilson is dramatically better than Alex Smith. In fact I think he is easily better than Luck. He's just not asked to do as much, rather than not capable as has been demonstrated in the few games where Wilson had to air it out to win or come back and puts up big numbers in those games like the Divisional game against Atlanta last year. He was not a game manager in the SB either, he made play after play on 3rd down, and when the completely stacked the box who ripped Denver apart with passing. He is #1 in passing rating and total touchdowns in his first two years and a SB champion. If you too RW and put him on Indy and asked him to throw as much as Luck does his numbers would be as good or better than Lucks I would still prefer LUCK but your points on Wilson cannot be disputed. He's smart, accurate, and has supreme confidence in his ability. True meaning of a Franchise QB, Sets up your franchise for the next dozen or so years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Russell Wilson is dramatically better than Alex Smith. In fact I think he is easily better than Luck. He's just not asked to do as much, rather than not capable as has been demonstrated in the few games where Wilson had to air it out to win or come back and puts up big numbers in those games like the Divisional game against Atlanta last year. He was not a game manager in the SB either, he made play after play on 3rd down, and when the completely stacked the box who ripped Denver apart with passing. He is #1 in passing rating and total touchdowns in his first two years and a SB champion. If you too RW and put him on Indy and asked him to throw as much as Luck does his numbers would be as good or better than Lucks I'm not saying Smith is better than Wilson. Of course Wilson is a better player. I'm saying Smith is a better GAME MANAGER. Wilson has the ability to make a big play that Smith does not have, and Smith's aversion to turnovers tends to work against him at times. But if you need a guy to manage things when the D and running game are doing their jobs well, Smith is your # 1 guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I'm not saying Smith is better than Wilson. Of course Wilson is a better player. I'm saying Smith is a better GAME MANAGER. Wilson has the ability to make a big play that Smith does not have, and Smith's aversion to turnovers tends to work against him at times. But if you need a guy to manage things when the D and running game are doing their jobs well, Smith is your # 1 guy. I don't see how you get that. Put aside his (or any player's) first half of his rookie season's starts, since it doesn't bear much relevance to his play weeks/months/years down the road with some experience under his belt. Since then, when the D and running game are doing their job well how often has Wilson screwed things up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I don't see how you get that. Put aside his (or any player's) first half of his rookie season's starts, since it doesn't bear much relevance to his play weeks/months/years down the road with some experience under his belt. Since then, when the D and running game are doing their job well how often has Wilson screwed things up? this is the first post on the new page of the thread. thought you were discussing wilson versus geno (not alex). was about to throw computer out window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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