Jetknowledge Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 If you look into seattle's path to success and the foundation in place for the jets you could notice. Seattle drafted many pieces to there defense and offense but marshawn lynch maybe there most important piece was not drafted nor sidney rice. They put a core together which laid the foundation and identity and began to draft players that matched. Idzik said he would like to do somethings that seattle has done but he wants players that play like jets and act like jets on and off the field. Recently reports surfaced we were interested in jeremy maclin a pretty good receiver on field but many may not know how good of a person he is off the field. He is a outstanding human being, a all around good guy. And emmanuel sanders on the field he is a good receiver but has potential to be even better. We traded for chris ivory last year who may show great promise in the upcoming draft and drafted 3 players who I believe have great careers ahead of them. Geno who I am a fan of from college to now, see milliner as well impressed me in college but really showed promise in the end of a horrible rookie season, and sheldon richardson who's name should speak for his self. Our foundation was placed before hand with players like mo, and mangold. It recently hit me that we're missing a few pieces on defense to be great for years to come and on offense we need desperately to add veteran playmakers were we won't have wait on development. It's possible in a draft where there's emphasis on offense we could draft for defense with great talent perhaps falling to I would not be disappointed. And in FA with many good cheap veteran offensive players available we could fix many holes to build a offense off of youth in later years through the draft. If we take any offensive player in the draft in the 1st round I believe it would be eric ebron if he's there when we pick, his talent is rare. He's raw he doesn't know how good he can be but is a very cocky player already. Has amazing speed for a tight end, very athletic and GREAT HANDS, makes the tough catches in traffic and even when the pass isn't perfect he works his but off for the play, can be a great block just needs work in his technique. But I would rather take safety calvin pryor or ha ha clinton dix, pryor is my 1st option. Would not regret marquise lee, or mike evans but I would rather go safety which we have been lacking since kerry rhodes (the only year we were #1 defense I believe) Express your opinions but a offensive FA and defensive draft seems likely if you notice who our GM and HC are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm not sure where to begin my disagreement with this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm not sure where to begin my disagreement with this post. The beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The beginning Ok. For starters, I'm not a fan of Eric Ebron, period. But especially not in the first round (or any other TE in the 1st for that matter). I don't think our offense dictates the need to gamble on a TE in the first as they don't play a significant part of MM's offense. At best, the TE is the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game-plan we utilize. The fact that Ebron is not a polished blocker means he doesn't add value to our run-game, and would likely resume the Keller role which tips off the opposing defenses when he enters the lineup. The fact that he still isn't a prioritized receiving option makes him an even further waste of a pick. Our current TEs should be plenty serviceable for the offense we run, and even better if our outside receiving options can take the top off a defense, which is our real problem. For that reason we need to focus on WRs. Period. Not marginal safeties. I can buy the argument for a top-notch CB; our pass defense sucked. I can buy the argument for BAP being an OL or OLB. But not safety. Neither So-So Clinton Dix, or Calvin Pryor are better than the (wait for it) plethora of startable safeties in this free agency class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ok. For starters, I'm not a fan of Eric Ebron, period. But especially not in the first round (or any other TE in the 1st for that matter). I don't think our offense dictates the need to gamble on a TE in the first as they don't play a significant part of MM's offense. At best, the TE is the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game-plan we utilize. The fact that Ebron is not a polished blocker means he doesn't add value to our run-game, and would likely resume the Keller role which tips off the opposing defenses when he enters the lineup. The fact that he still isn't a prioritized receiving option makes him an even further waste of a pick. Our current TEs should be plenty serviceable for the offense we run, and even better if our outside receiving options can take the top off a defense, which is our real problem. For that reason we need to focus on WRs. Period. Not marginal safeties. I can buy the argument for a top-notch CB; our pass defense sucked. I can buy the argument for BAP being an OL or OLB. But not safety. Neither So-So Clinton Dix, or Calvin Pryor are better than the (wait for it) plethora of startable safeties in this free agency class. Ebron is a 1st round talent every scout can see that i'm not sure why you can't, most rookies need work in 1 or 2 areas the fact that our coaching staff is assembled of great teachers is why a player with potential and work ethic is desirable. MMs system utilizes all the weapons he's given. He does get tight ends involved but with the likes of kellen winslow who was leading the team in receptions for a part of the season and cumberland he had no dynamic weapons to utilize. And dix & pryor are top quality YOUNG SAFETIES With bright futures, the safety FA aren't cheap as a rookie and no player is guaranteed to stay healthy or consistent after a contract. Great franchises are built through the draft. There's great talent on defense early and with the deep receiver core there will be talent around round 3 & 4. And for future reference pass defense does need quality safety play, and milliner would have history with dix which is beneficial since community is key, and with his skill and our system he would reach potential quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Stopped reading at there. Good lord. There/Their/They're. Come on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKwaz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I would go the other way. This draft is filled with offensive playmakers. Sign a FS like Major Wright and an OLB like Jason Worilds and draft for offense while throwing in a mid round CB and ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 not sure where these cheap world-beater offensive veterans are supposed to come from. sanders and maclin, the two guys you name won't come cheap. maybe idzik can buy some world peace while he is at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ebron is a 1st round talent every scout can see that i'm not sure why you can't, most rookies need work in 1 or 2 areas the fact that our coaching staff is assembled of great teachers is why a player with potential and work ethic is desirable. MMs system utilizes all the weapons he's given. He does get tight ends involved but with the likes of kellen winslow who was leading the team in receptions for a part of the season and cumberland he had no dynamic weapons to utilize. And dix & pryor are top quality YOUNG SAFETIES With bright futures, the safety FA aren't cheap as a rookie and no player is guaranteed to stay healthy or consistent after a contract. Great franchises are built through the draft. There's great talent on defense early and with the deep receiver core there will be talent around round 3 & 4. And for future reference pass defense does need quality safety play, and milliner would have history with dix which is beneficial since community is key, and with his skill and our system he would reach potential quick The team should not go into the draft looking to target either the TE or Safety position. If that's the cream that rises to the too when they're on the board, so be it, but they're not the positions you look to fill in the first round. They're not valued that way by the league. Look at the franchise tag values last year: WR - $10.5M, TE - $6M; CB - $10.8M, S - $6.9M. The production and value is at the WR and CB positions. Now that said, if Ebron proves to be an elite talent, and the top four or five WRs are off the board when the Jets pick, I could see him possibly being the selection. It would really come down to what they did for the receiving corps in free agency vs. what other talent was on the board there. If they sign a Maclin, say, maybe they don't feel the need to force an offensive pick in the first round. If they come up dry in free agency, their hand becomes more forced here. Safety, if I had to guess, would be completely out of the question in the first round. Rex's defense simply doesn't value the position. The third CB is more important than the top safety in his system. If they go defense, it'll be CB or pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The team should not go into the draft looking to target either the TE or Safety position. If that's the cream that rises to the too when they're on the board, so be it, but they're not the positions you look to fill in the first round. They're not valued that way by the league. Look at the franchise tag values last year: WR - $10.5M, TE - $6M; CB - $10.8M, S - $6.9M. The production and value is at the WR and CB positions. Now that said, if Ebron proves to be an elite talent, and the top four or five WRs are off the board when the Jets pick, I could see him possibly being the selection. It would really come down to what they did for the receiving corps in free agency vs. what other talent was on the board there. If they sign a Maclin, say, maybe they don't feel the need to force an offensive pick in the first round. If they come up dry in free agency, their hand becomes more forced here. Safety, if I had to guess, would be completely out of the question in the first round. Rex's defense simply doesn't value the position. The third CB is more important than the top safety in his system. If they go defense, it'll be CB or pass rusher. I completely agree with this, and while it is especially true for lower-value positions like TE and S, I also think as a general rule it applies to any position. It seems to be pretty well established that making draft picks based upon need, particularly in the early rounds, has the highest rate of failure. Now if there's a particular player you love at a position of need and want to make a move to go get him at a spot that aligns with his value on your draft board, that's one thing, but making a decision once you're on the board that is influenced simply by a player's position is generally asking for trouble. Not to mention, I think the Richardson pick is proof positive that this is not the way Idzik handles the draft, considering DL had already been considered the Jets strongest position, which caused the Jets to get plenty of flack for it at the time, and yet in hindsight nobody is going to dispute that it was a fantastic pick. That is why the real priority is to simply fill those major needs via FA before heading into the draft. That doesn't mean getting top level FAs who are long term solutions, rather it's just a matter of putting your team in a position where they're not left in desperate need of any particular position just to be able to properly field a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 one thing that's overlooked is the time it takes for WR to develop. Unless we are talking about Calvin johnson most of these guys take 2 or 3 seasons before they really know how to play the position in the NFL. If the JEts chose to sign a WR and draft defense, it would not be surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 not sure where these cheap world-beater offensive veterans are supposed to come from. sanders and maclin, the two guys you name won't come cheap. maybe idzik can buy some world peace while he is at it. Additionally, none of these guys are without warts and question marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_psg Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ok. For starters, I'm not a fan of Eric Ebron, period. But especially not in the first round (or any other TE in the 1st for that matter). I don't think our offense dictates the need to gamble on a TE in the first as they don't play a significant part of MM's offense. At best, the TE is the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game-plan we utilize. The fact that Ebron is not a polished blocker means he doesn't add value to our run-game, and would likely resume the Keller role which tips off the opposing defenses when he enters the lineup. The fact that he still isn't a prioritized receiving option makes him an even further waste of a pick. Our current TEs should be plenty serviceable for the offense we run, and even better if our outside receiving options can take the top off a defense, which is our real problem. For that reason we need to focus on WRs. Period. Not marginal safeties. I can buy the argument for a top-notch CB; our pass defense sucked. I can buy the argument for BAP being an OL or OLB. But not safety. Neither So-So Clinton Dix, or Calvin Pryor are better than the (wait for it) plethora of startable safeties in this free agency class. You mean to say if you get Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu in the 1st round you'll pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The team should not go into the draft looking to target either the TE or Safety position. If that's the cream that rises to the too when they're on the board, so be it, but they're not the positions you look to fill in the first round. They're not valued that way by the league. Look at the franchise tag values last year: WR - $10.5M, TE - $6M; CB - $10.8M, S - $6.9M. The production and value is at the WR and CB positions. Now that said, if Ebron proves to be an elite talent, and the top four or five WRs are off the board when the Jets pick, I could see him possibly being the selection. It would really come down to what they did for the receiving corps in free agency vs. what other talent was on the board there. If they sign a Maclin, say, maybe they don't feel the need to force an offensive pick in the first round. If they come up dry in free agency, their hand becomes more forced here. Safety, if I had to guess, would be completely out of the question in the first round. Rex's defense simply doesn't value the position. The third CB is more important than the top safety in his system. If they go defense, it'll be CB or pass rusher. Rex might want to rethink the importance of Safety in HIS current scheme, the Jets had the 2 best pass D's during his 5 years here when we had Rhodes on 09, and L Landry in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You mean to say if you get Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu in the 1st round you'll pass... That's cool. You listed HOF players and Gronkowski ( a second round pick), and assumed we would be selecting their counterparts in this draft; a draft noted for its depth for WR. cool. For fun, who in this draft reminds you of Gronk, Gonz, Reed, or Polamalu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro55 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ivory will never be Lynch and for in reality, Ivory is pretty much a backup on most NFL Teams. If he's even that. I mean the Saints have crappy RBs, injury prone guys and they dumped him for a 4th round pick. The guy is useless in the passing game. He's injury prone. And he's not some powerhouse runner that'll get you 1500 yards rushing. He wasn't even as good as Greene and Greene wasn't any good. People like to drink some kool aid because he's on the Jets, but the reality is the guy rushed for about 70 yards a game, had injury issues, and was pretty much pointless in the passing game. And the Jets have a OC who runs some form of the west coast offense where Running backs become important in the passing game. Ivory is a nice change of pace running back. He'd be a nice guy to complement somebody like Reggie Bush. But the Jets don't have any of that. They have running backs who can't catch passes and aren't going to be a beast like Lynch. On a team with no weapons and a bad QB, that's pretty much a disaster. It's also a reason why the Jets offense stunk. You can't say the Jets have no weapons on offense and the next sentence say Ivory was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ivory will never be Lynch and for in reality, Ivory is pretty much a backup on most NFL Teams. If he's even that. I mean the Saints have crappy RBs, injury prone guys and they dumped him for a 4th round pick. The guy is useless in the passing game. He's injury prone. And he's not some powerhouse runner that'll get you 1500 yards rushing. He wasn't even as good as Greene and Greene wasn't any good. People like to drink some kool aid because he's on the Jets, but the reality is the guy rushed for about 70 yards a game, had injury issues, and was pretty much pointless in the passing game. And the Jets have a OC who runs some form of the west coast offense where Running backs become important in the passing game. Ivory is a nice change of pace running back. He'd be a nice guy to complement somebody like Reggie Bush. But the Jets don't have any of that. They have running backs who can't catch passes and aren't going to be a beast like Lynch. On a team with no weapons and a bad QB, that's pretty much a disaster. It's also a reason why the Jets offense stunk. You can't say the Jets have no weapons on offense and the next sentence say Ivory was great. I think you went a little over board with the whole greene comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Additionally, none of these guys are without warts and question marks. that's usually what free agency is all about. players available that other teams don't re-sign for some reason or another. there usually isn't many perfect free agents out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 The team should not go into the draft looking to target either the TE or Safety position. If that's the cream that rises to the too when they're on the board, so be it, but they're not the positions you look to fill in the first round. They're not valued that way by the league. Look at the franchise tag values last year: WR - $10.5M, TE - $6M; CB - $10.8M, S - $6.9M. The production and value is at the WR and CB positions. Now that said, if Ebron proves to be an elite talent, and the top four or five WRs are off the board when the Jets pick, I could see him possibly being the selection. It would really come down to what they did for the receiving corps in free agency vs. what other talent was on the board there. If they sign a Maclin, say, maybe they don't feel the need to force an offensive pick in the first round. If they come up dry in free agency, their hand becomes more forced here. Safety, if I had to guess, would be completely out of the question in the first round. Rex's defense simply doesn't value the position. The third CB is more important than the top safety in his system. If they go defense, it'll be CB or pass rusher. I can agree with everything you said but maclin and sanders won't cost to much maclin mite get a 1 year deal & sanders mite get a mike goodson type deal and tight ends aren't that expensive either in FA. And rex loves db's his best years came with ed reed after all if he sees potential in a prospect he would leap at him. Specially a ball hawk like dix but he as well likes hitters like pryor. If dennard is on the board i'm sure he will be our pick but I doubt he will be. But signing maclin and sanders would be cheaper then the deal santonio received. If FA doesn't go as planned then of course the draft philosophy would change but if FA plans out I see a defensive draft early regardless I believe we will look for special teamers and play makers late in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ivory will never be Lynch and for in reality, Ivory is pretty much a backup on most NFL Teams. If he's even that. I mean the Saints have crappy RBs, injury prone guys and they dumped him for a 4th round pick. The guy is useless in the passing game. He's injury prone. And he's not some powerhouse runner that'll get you 1500 yards rushing. He wasn't even as good as Greene and Greene wasn't any good. People like to drink some kool aid because he's on the Jets, but the reality is the guy rushed for about 70 yards a game, had injury issues, and was pretty much pointless in the passing game. And the Jets have a OC who runs some form of the west coast offense where Running backs become important in the passing game. Ivory is a nice change of pace running back. He'd be a nice guy to complement somebody like Reggie Bush. But the Jets don't have any of that. They have running backs who can't catch passes and aren't going to be a beast like Lynch. On a team with no weapons and a bad QB, that's pretty much a disaster. It's also a reason why the Jets offense stunk. You can't say the Jets have no weapons on offense and the next sentence say Ivory was great. Ivory isn't great but he's definitely not bad, if health wasn't a issue i'm sure he would been better. He became better as the season neared the end and with a whole off season and a healthy year he will be productive. If you recall his carries wasn't enough for his type of play till around mid-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 That's cool. You listed HOF players and Gronkowski ( a second round pick), and assumed we would be selecting their counterparts in this draft; a draft noted for its depth for WR. cool. For fun, who in this draft reminds you of Gronk, Gonz, Reed, or Polamalu? Playing style wise reed - dix and polamalu - pryor. But there far away from there talent, not as much at this point in there career but in there prime a great difference. Ebron is a vernon davis type and amaro is a aaron hernandez type. Closer then you think, I believe ebron maybe more athletic then davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 not sure where these cheap world-beater offensive veterans are supposed to come from. sanders and maclin, the two guys you name won't come cheap. maybe idzik can buy some world peace while he is at it. The only receiver who wouldn't be cheap is decker no one else had a season or career that screams jackpot. On defense there are some expensive pieces major wright and worrilds (prob misspelled it) would be more expensive then maclin and sanders, honestly holmes will be healthy if he would be cut then signed for vets minimum he would still be a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 I completely agree with this, and while it is especially true for lower-value positions like TE and S, I also think as a general rule it applies to any position. It seems to be pretty well established that making draft picks based upon need, particularly in the early rounds, has the highest rate of failure. Now if there's a particular player you love at a position of need and want to make a move to go get him at a spot that aligns with his value on your draft board, that's one thing, but making a decision once you're on the board that is influenced simply by a player's position is generally asking for trouble. Not to mention, I think the Richardson pick is proof positive that this is not the way Idzik handles the draft, considering DL had already been considered the Jets strongest position, which caused the Jets to get plenty of flack for it at the time, and yet in hindsight nobody is going to dispute that it was a fantastic pick. That is why the real priority is to simply fill those major needs via FA before heading into the draft. That doesn't mean getting top level FAs who are long term solutions, rather it's just a matter of putting your team in a position where they're not left in desperate need of any particular position just to be able to properly field a team. Exactly, and there are defensive prospects with great upside but other then watkins the receivers have upside but are more average lacking a skill that would make them great. Evans lack speed, and in the system he was in with johnny manziel, and being it was college just leaves questions Lee is fast but small, and health comes into question as well as his previous season he had a case of the drops. I have seen enough of that with our receiving core. Matthews is the most complete nfl ready receiver to me, he only lacks speed but so did jerry rice he was still productive. Kelvin benjamin is just a red zone threat and going against peterson or sherman, or aqib talib he wouldn't be that much of a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The only receiver who wouldn't be cheap is decker no one else had a season or career that screams jackpot. On defense there are some expensive pieces major wright and worrilds (prob misspelled it) would be more expensive then maclin and sanders, honestly holmes will be healthy if he would be cut then signed for vets minimum he would still be a starter. We'll see. A lot of teams need receivers, which I suspect will drive the market up. If it doesn't, good for us! Holmes is not coming back here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meddle Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You mean to say if you get Gronkowski, Gonzalez, Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu in the 1st round you'll pass... This. It's not that TE and S are not important, it's that there are fewer difference-makers at these positions. If you get a crack at one, they are worth what the elite players are worth at the other positions, or at least they should be. Having an elite versatile S right now is enormous for a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This. It's not that TE and S are not important, it's that there are fewer difference-makers at these positions. If you get a crack at one, they are worth what the elite players are worth at the other positions, or at least they should be. Having an elite versatile S right now is enormous for a defense. Worst "this" is the history of message boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Playing style wise reed - dix and polamalu - pryor. But there far away from there talent, not as much at this point in there career but in there prime a great difference. Ebron is a vernon davis type and amaro is a aaron hernandez type. Closer then you think, I believe ebron maybe more athletic then davis. So, you don't watch football is what you're saying. on edit: I apologize, didn't mean to be so dickesh. I'll elaborate: So-So Clinton Dix is a future hall of famer? He doesn't cover ground like Ed Reed did in his earlier days, and he doesn't hit, he wrestles guys to the ground. On top of that he's a tall(ish) safety at 6'1. Ed Reed barely cracks 5'11. Horrible Comparison. The 6'2 Calvin Pryor is being compared to the 5'10 Troy Polamalu? Troy is known for his elite instincts, timing, and sub 4.3 speed. Pryor is known for driving a delivery truck into people. Their game could not be further apart from one another. That's just silly, man. Ebron gets the Vernon comp. but he's not "maybe more athletic" than Davis. Nobody is. Write that down. and, Jace Amaro is a big-boy TE. He gets open with subtle moves and catches everything thrown his way. Hernandez measured 6'2, 245 at the Combine. He's closer to Keller than the 6'5, 260 Amaro, and nothing, NOTHING about their game is similar aside from the fact that they both wore pads and caught footballs. You literally picked the worst possible comparisons to make your point, which devalues it. So once again, do you watch football, or just write about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This. It's not that TE and S are not important, it's that there are fewer difference-makers at these positions. If you get a crack at one, they are worth what the elite players are worth at the other positions, or at least they should be. Having an elite versatile S right now is enormous for a defense. You need to be dead certain that they are that elite athlete, though. If they turn out to simply be an adequate starter, you're much better off with an adequate starter at WR or CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 This. It's not that TE and S are not important, it's that there are fewer difference-makers at these positions. If you get a crack at one, they are worth what the elite players are worth at the other positions, or at least they should be. Having an elite versatile S right now is enormous for a defense. Alright. sh*ts and Giggles. Any clue when Gronk, Gonz, Reed and Troy were drafted? HOF-bound Tony Gonzalez was drafted in 1997 HOF-bound Ed Reed was drafted in 2002 HOF-bound Troy Polamalu was drafted in 2003 Since them, the argument can be made that nobody of their "equal" had entered the league. To equate their play with that of TEs who weren't mentioned as first rounders until this year, or with safeties that may be the top of this class, but will still be available at 18, is ludicrous. Notice I left Gronkowski out of the drafted list above? I did that for a reason. Since Gonzalez entered the league, the Pats have drafted TEs, lots of them. Drafting the next Gronk (a second rounder btw) isn't as easy as you make it 1998: Rod Ruteledge 2000: Dave Stachelski 2001: Jabari Holloway 2001: Arther Love 2002: Daniel Graham 2004: Benjamin Watson 2005: Andy Stokes 2006: David Thomas 2006: Garrett Mills 2010: Aaron Hernandez 2010: Rob Gronkowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meddle Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Alright. sh*ts and Giggles. Any clue when Gronk, Gonz, Reed and Troy were drafted? HOF-bound Tony Gonzalez was drafted in 1997 HOF-bound Ed Reed was drafted in 2002 HOF-bound Troy Polamalu was drafted in 2003 Since them, the argument can be made that nobody of their "equal" had entered the league. To equate their play with that of TEs who weren't mentioned as first rounders until this year, or with safeties that may be the top of this class, but will still be available at 18, is ludicrous. Notice I left Gronkowski out of the drafted list above? I did that for a reason. Since Gonzalez entered the league, the Pats have drafted TEs, lots of them. Drafting the next Gronk (a second rounder btw) isn't as easy as you make it 1998: Rod Ruteledge 2000: Dave Stachelski 2001: Jabari Holloway 2001: Arther Love 2002: Daniel Graham 2004: Benjamin Watson 2005: Andy Stokes 2006: David Thomas 2006: Garrett Mills 2010: Aaron Hernandez 2010: Rob Gronkowski Uh, yeah, you missed a few big producers, like Vernon Davis, Dallas Clark, Jason Witten, Jimmy Graham and Antonio Gates. That's off the top of my head. The guy's point was, as I understood it, that when you get a really good player at TE or S, it's not a waste of a first rounder. I agree with that. The TE position is an evolving one if you haven't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meddle Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You need to be dead certain that they are that elite athlete, though. If they turn out to simply be an adequate starter, you're much better off with an adequate starter at WR or CB. The position is changing. Traditional tight ends are tougher to value and have been risky propositions in the first, but if you are looking at players with Vernon Davis/Jimmy Graham skills, then using a first rounder makes sense. These are tight ends that can used anywhere in the formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ok. For starters, I'm not a fan of Eric Ebron, period. But especially not in the first round (or any other TE in the 1st for that matter). I don't think our offense dictates the need to gamble on a TE in the first as they don't play a significant part of MM's offense. At best, the TE is the 3rd or 4th option in the passing game-plan we utilize. The fact that Ebron is not a polished blocker means he doesn't add value to our run-game, and would likely resume the Keller role which tips off the opposing defenses when he enters the lineup. The fact that he still isn't a prioritized receiving option makes him an even further waste of a pick. Our current TEs should be plenty serviceable for the offense we run, and even better if our outside receiving options can take the top off a defense, which is our real problem. Well for example In 2011, Brent Celek had 62 receptions for 811 yards and 5 TD under MM. And Brent Celek is not exactly Rob Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham. That seems pretty significant to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewillie78 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 We'll see. A lot of teams need receivers, which I suspect will drive the market up. If it doesn't, good for us! Holmes is not coming back here. Nate Burleson just cut by LIONS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Is Ebron really a significantly better prospect than Keller was coming out of college? Keller was a good athlete w/ great hands too. He's only been a decent TE in the NFL though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 So, you don't watch football is what you're saying. on edit: I apologize, didn't mean to be so dickesh. I'll elaborate: So-So Clinton Dix is a future hall of famer? He doesn't cover ground like Ed Reed did in his earlier days, and he doesn't hit, he wrestles guys to the ground. On top of that he's a tall(ish) safety at 6'1. Ed Reed barely cracks 5'11. Horrible Comparison. The 6'2 Calvin Pryor is being compared to the 5'10 Troy Polamalu? Troy is known for his elite instincts, timing, and sub 4.3 speed. Pryor is known for driving a delivery truck into people. Their game could not be further apart from one another. That's just silly, man. Ebron gets the Vernon comp. but he's not "maybe more athletic" than Davis. Nobody is. Write that down. and, Jace Amaro is a big-boy TE. He gets open with subtle moves and catches everything thrown his way. Hernandez measured 6'2, 245 at the Combine. He's closer to Keller than the 6'5, 260 Amaro, and nothing, NOTHING about their game is similar aside from the fact that they both wore pads and caught footballs. You literally picked the worst possible comparisons to make your point, which devalues it. So once again, do you watch football, or just write about it? You obviously did not comprehend when I said they are as GOOD AT THIS POINT IN,THERE CAREER. Playing style has nothing to do with measurables, ed reed is a coverage guy, ball hawk who can tackle well enough to be a elite safety. Same type of playing style as dix. Polamalu is a instinctive safety true but his tackling is the best part of his game,,he is good at coverage in his scheme but not the best at coverage, pryor is a instinctive all around safety but his best attribute is he's a enforcer in the secondary. You should watch football and film if you can't realize that after then stop trying. Your opinion on davis athleticism vs ebron's is noted but I disagree. Amaro is not a elite talent, rather very versatile so he will be a match up nightmare because of his skill set. Similar style to hernandez. You sir have a lot of research to do, and actually try and comprehend my opinion before you begin to down it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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