Jets to go hard after McCown

[joewillie78]

Schaub is probably the only guy who'd be a clear-cut winner over Geno. Smith would beat out McCown, Vick, and Hill. Probably Kolb, too. I don't know what Manziel looks like as a pro, yet, but he's a pipe-dream, anyway, so I don't care.

Interesting that you mention Schaub, as it was brought up on this forum, that he didn't want to come to the Jets and be a back-up, yet he is the only one I mentioned that you believe would beat out Smith.

 

What about, EGADS: Sanchez vs. Smith?

[bitonti]

much of this thread is underrating Geno smith. He actually looked good the last month of the season. Better than Josh McCown. 

I support the jets bringing in a vet backup as they can't have 3 young QBs and try to develop them all at once. there's not enough time in the day. The attention will go to Geno, that's who they are developing. 

[slats]

Interesting that you mention Schaub, as it was brought up on this forum, that he didn't want to come to the Jets and be a back-up, yet he is the only one I mentioned that you believe would beat out Smith.

 

What about, EGADS: Sanchez vs. Smith?

Smith again. It was close last year when Geno was extremely raw. Now he has a year under his belt in Mornhinweg's system and Sanchez is coming back from an injury to his throwing shoulder. I don't think it would be close this year.

[Big Blocker]

much of this thread is underrating Geno smith. He actually looked good the last month of the season. Better than Josh McCown. 

I support the jets bringing in a vet backup as they can't have 3 young QBs and try to develop them all at once. there's not enough time in the day. The attention will go to Geno, that's who they are developing. 

 

In fact I think Smith supporters overrate his performances in the last month of the season.  Other than the Panthers the quality of the opponents was awful, especially in pass D.  The Jets beat Miami the week after Miami scored zero points against Buffalo, for example. 

 

Against these weak sisters of the league Smith cannot point to a single strong performance.  The best that can be said of him in these games was he held turnovers down. 

[joewilly12]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet now
Based on conversations this week, it’s clear the #Jets are viewed as a legitimate possible landing spot for #Eagles QB Michael Vick.

[jgb]

after McCown does what?

[nj meadowlands]

Would MUCH rather Vick than McCown.

[joewillie78]

Would MUCH rather Vick than McCown.

JETS go 10-6 in 2014/2015 with Vick slinging it. And with a little bit of luck, could beat NE for the Afc east. Only downer, Mike saves Rex's job, but if REX commits to Mike, I could learn to like the guy.

[Big Blocker]

JETS go 10-6 in 2014/2015 with Vick slinging it. And with a little bit of luck, could beat NE for the Afc east. Only downer, Mike saves Rex's job, but if REX commits to Mike, I could learn to like the guy.

 

Vick is too fragile. 

[pedro55]

In fact I think Smith supporters overrate his performances in the last month of the season.  Other than the Panthers the quality of the opponents was awful, especially in pass D.  The Jets beat Miami the week after Miami scored zero points against Buffalo, for example. 

 

Against these weak sisters of the league Smith cannot point to a single strong performance.  The best that can be said of him in these games was he held turnovers down. 

 

  It's drinking the kool aid and hope.   He was not good against Miami.  He wasn't bad.  Which compared to most of the season, looked like an improvement.  It's great he didn't turn the ball over, but who gets excited over 190 yards passing and 1 rushing TD?  That's kind of a joke to say he looked great the last month.   He wasn't good against the Panthers. He wasn't really that good against the Browns.  He had a decent game against the Raiders, but not great.    

 

  If you look at Geno this past season,  he played great against Atlanta.   The rest of the season he either sucked so bad he should have been run out of the NFL or he was a below avg QB.    People just want to drink the kool aid over somebody throwing for under 200 yards as a good sign.

[faba]

JETS go 10-6 in 2014/2015 with Vick slinging it. And with a little bit of luck, could beat NE for the Afc east. Only downer, Mike saves Rex's job, but if REX commits to Mike, I could learn to like the guy.

Vick would not even last 16 games as a regular QB

[joewillie78]

Vick is too fragile. 

I agree, I have said this is my one and only concern with VICK. Remember though, as I have pointed out, he sat a great deal of last year, NOT getting hit at all, having his body heal, so he is as healthy as he's been in a long time (probably since he left prison). Also, he is a more mature Mike Vick who I expect to slide and get out of bounds rather than get, bledsoed like he used to.

[joewillie78]

Vick would not even last 16 games as a regular QB

History says you are right, but I take that risk in a heartbeat, because if he does stay healthy, he can still make plays, both with his arms and legs.

[Big Blocker]

  It's drinking the kool aid and hope.   He was not good against Miami.  He wasn't bad.  Which compared to most of the season, looked like an improvement.  It's great he didn't turn the ball over, but who gets excited over 190 yards passing and 1 rushing TD?  That's kind of a joke to say he looked great the last month.   He wasn't good against the Panthers. He wasn't really that good against the Browns.  He had a decent game against the Raiders, but not great.    

 

  If you look at Geno this past season,  he played great against Atlanta.   The rest of the season he either sucked so bad he should have been run out of the NFL or he was a below avg QB.    People just want to drink the kool aid over somebody throwing for under 200 yards as a good sign.

 

Yes, and the Raiders sucked in pass D.

 

Smith had roughly the worst metrics of any NFL Qb last year.  I understand that he was ill prepared to step in there, and probably he was ill served by having to play all those rough outings.  He did not reach David Carr levels, of course, and thankfully did not get worse toward the end.  But I saw nothing to make me think he is likely to improve significantly, to even be a mid tier NFL Qb at some point.

 

My take on Jet fans who think he's already great is they have gotten so used to mediocre Qb play, they think it is acceptable.  We've had a good Qb who could not stay on the field in Chad, the inept handling of Bollinger and even Clemens, remember when Joe Gibbs cut Ramsey and the Jets picked him up?  Arguably one of the better performers, going 2-1 as a starter, was Quincy Carter, but he could not stay away from the tootskie.  Then we had the complete mediocrity that was Mark Sanchez, and the laughable Tebow mistake. 

 

Ftr I have not written Smith off in my own assessment, but the burden is on him to show that he should stay.  So far he has yet to meet taht burden.

[Big Blocker]

I agree, I have said this is my one and only concern with VICK. Remember though, as I have pointed out, he sat a great deal of last year, NOT getting hit at all, having his body heal, so he is as healthy as he's been in a long time (probably since he left prison). Also, he is a more mature Mike Vick who I expect to slide and get out of bounds rather than get, bledsoed like he used to.

 

I honestly don't know what Vick's condition is right now.  But it does seem like some of his recent problems are of the chronic sort.  Age begins to be a factor in such situations, too.

 

It seems to me you go and get a Qb of Vick's quality if you think you can get to the playoffs.  But the scenarios become too risky when you consider that Vick could go down, leaving the team dependent on Smith to come in when he at that point would have been sittting all season.  That kind of pressure and lack of preparatoin is a formula for disaster.

 

Vick would be less of a risk if Smith himself were bettter positioned to be a backup.  In some ways Vick would be the worst Qb to match with Smith.  I don't think that matching with Smith is the primary consideration by any means, but it is a factor that the two do not make a good match if the Jets want to contend for a playoff spot next season.

[Smashmouth]

Vick is too fragile. 

I don't think Vick is fragile at all he's just stupid putting himself in harms way constantly . After a while your going to get hurt taking as many hits as he does at the QB position. I've seen him take some huge hits and get right back in there and that's what seems to be the problem.

 

Throw the ball away, slide a bit more, running out of bounds is your friend

[joewillie78]

I honestly don't know what Vick's condition is right now.  But it does seem like some of his recent problems are of the chronic sort.  Age begins to be a factor in such situations, too.

 

It seems to me you go and get a Qb of Vick's quality if you think you can get to the playoffs.  But the scenarios become too risky when you consider that Vick could go down, leaving the team dependent on Smith to come in when he at that point would have been sittting all season.  That kind of pressure and lack of preparatoin is a formula for disaster.

 

Vick would be less of a risk if Smith himself were bettter positioned to be a backup.  In some ways Vick would be the worst Qb to match with Smith.  I don't think that matching with Smith is the primary consideration by any means, but it is a factor that the two do not make a good match if the Jets want to contend for a playoff spot next season.

I hear you. Vick would have to stay healthy for a minimum of 12 games for my scenario to be effective, leaving only 4 games wher we have to rely on Smith at least not being a turnover machine like he was last year.

[Big Blocker]

I hear you. Vick would have to stay healthy for a minimum of 12 games for my scenario to be effective, leaving only 4 games wher we have to rely on Smith at least not being a turnover machine like he was last year.

 

But what if Vick got so hurt that he could not come back?  Smith leading the team into the playoffs after having played very little?  That does not inspire confidence.

 

Vick will be 34 by opening day.  I know i was concerned about Willie Colon and James Ivory avoiding injury, and both made major contributions.  Even Chad had one injury free year for Miami.  But imo the odds of Vick playing a whole season are pretty small.  He didn't have one of them his five years in Philly.

[#27TheDominator]

We are not supposed to expect improvement from Geno Smith, but we are supposed to expect it from Michael Vick? 

[joewillie78]

We are not supposed to expect improvement from Geno Smith, but we are supposed to expect it from Michael Vick? 

Mike Vick is a proven commodity, just like Josh McCown, or Matt Schaub.

 

Geno Smith has played one year and had the lowest QBR in the league. Sure, he might improve, but I will have to see it first, because if he doesn't or even regresses, then we have SanchezII.

 

All the guys they are thinking of bringing in have had at least MULTIPLE seasons of being highly rated QBR quarterbacks with McCown posting a 109 last year. I'll take it.

[#27TheDominator]

Like David Garrard?

[joewillie78]

Like David Garrard?

Scary.

[jgb]

i don't care if it is vick, orton, schaub, somebody else. if we bring someone capable of providing REAL competition for geno, then i can live with however the chips may fall.

[Thor99]

 

 

My take on Jet fans who think he's already great.

There is literally no one who thinks this.

Literally.

[joewillie78]

There is literally no one who thinks this.

Literally.

Smith's Mother?

[pedro55]

Mike Vick is a proven commodity, just like Josh McCown, or Matt Schaub.

 

Geno Smith has played one year and had the lowest QBR in the league. Sure, he might improve, but I will have to see it first, because if he doesn't or even regresses, then we have SanchezII.

 

All the guys they are thinking of bringing in have had at least MULTIPLE seasons of being highly rated QBR quarterbacks with McCown posting a 109 last year. I'll take it.

 

 Proven to who?   Vick has proven he can't even play half a season much of his career.  Josh?  The guy is what, 30 something years old and is a career backup.    People like to live in make believeland where these guys somehow are saviors.   Yeah Matt Schaub really proved a lot last year.  True he has been far better than anything the Jets have over the years, but he's also a guy who stunk up the field last season.   

[JetsFanInDenver]

Someday Mehta will have a moment of clarity and title such articles as "I hate the offseason"

[joewillie78]

 Proven to who?   Vick has proven he can't even play half a season much of his career.  Josh?  The guy is what, 30 something years old and is a career backup.    People like to live in make believeland where these guys somehow are saviors.   Yeah Matt Schaub really proved a lot last year.  True he has been far better than anything the Jets have over the years, but he's also a guy who stunk up the field last season.   

Mike Vick is I believe 34, and I really don't think he is a career backup. In fact I believe that before he went to prison, that he was like a 5 year starter in Atlanta, a Multiple pro-bowler, and the first QB to beat Brett Favre in Green Bay in a playoff game.

 

Also, because he spent 2 years in Prison, and almost all of last year on the bench, he is a very "young" 34, having had at least 2+ years where he did not have any physical contact, so his body is in better shape than most 34 year old football players.

 

The Injury bug that plagues him, I have acknowledged, but I still believe he is worth the risk.

[pedro55]

Mike Vick is I believe 34, and I really don't think he is a career backup. In fact I believe that before he went to prison, that he was like a 5 year starter in Atlanta, a Multiple pro-bowler, and the first QB to beat Brett Favre in Green Bay in a playoff game.

 

Also, because he spent 2 years in Prison, and almost all of last year on the bench, he is a very "young" 34, having had at least 2+ years where he did not have any physical contact, so his body is in better shape than most 34 year old football players.

 

The Injury bug that plagues him, I have acknowledged, but I still believe he is worth the risk.

 

 Never said Vick was a career backup. Josh is a career backup who never did a damn thing for most of that time.  

Vick never stayed healthy when he was young and he's had fumbling issues for years.    The Jets already had a guy who came in with injury issues and never played a down last season.   What's the point in bringing in Vick who will wind up getting hurt in week 4 and Smith learns nothing and is back to where he was this year.  And the Jets just wasted money and space on a guy they knew wasn't going to play much.

 

  Vick is a guy who gets hurt. Always has.  It would be luck if he didn't.   The Jets already depended on that scenario last year with Gerrard, no point in going down the same path.  Plus all the circus and press that would come with Vick doesn't help.    It's just a bad choice all the way around. 

 

 And Vick is a proven fact over Smith because of what?   He sucked with the Eagles. Yeah he had a couple of nice years, but he was also a big reason why that team was one of the biggest busts.     And this season the Eagles were down and out and heading for another 4-12 Season with him.  He got hurt and Foles came in and suddenly became Peyton Manning with the same team.    Vick is a guy who is an exciting ESPN highlight kind of guy.  But he's also one of the most overrated QBs of all time.   We all think Geno had a bad season, but he still had 3000 passing yards his rookie year.  Vick spent most of his career not even coming close to those numbers.   He finally did it with the Eagles.  The same team where Nick Foles just had an MVP type of season.   

 

 Sorry but Vick is just not worth the money or attention and he sure isn't proven to be better than Geno.   Vick has proven to get your team on ESPN. He's proven he will get hurt. He's proven he will fumble the ball.  But he hasn't really proven he's that great of a QB.   

[joewillie78]

 Never said Vick was a career backup. Josh is a career backup who never did a damn thing for most of that time.  

Vick never stayed healthy when he was young and he's had fumbling issues for years.    The Jets already had a guy who came in with injury issues and never played a down last season.   What's the point in bringing in Vick who will wind up getting hurt in week 4 and Smith learns nothing and is back to where he was this year.  And the Jets just wasted money and space on a guy they knew wasn't going to play much.

 

  Vick is a guy who gets hurt. Always has.  It would be luck if he didn't.   The Jets already depended on that scenario last year with Gerrard, no point in going down the same path.  Plus all the circus and press that would come with Vick doesn't help.    It's just a bad choice all the way around. 

 

 And Vick is a proven fact over Smith because of what?   He sucked with the Eagles. Yeah he had a couple of nice years, but he was also a big reason why that team was one of the biggest busts.     And this season the Eagles were down and out and heading for another 4-12 Season with him.  He got hurt and Foles came in and suddenly became Peyton Manning with the same team.    Vick is a guy who is an exciting ESPN highlight kind of guy.  But he's also one of the most overrated QBs of all time.   We all think Geno had a bad season, but he still had 3000 passing yards his rookie year.  Vick spent most of his career not even coming close to those numbers.   He finally did it with the Eagles.  The same team where Nick Foles just had an MVP type of season.   

 

 Sorry but Vick is just not worth the money or attention and he sure isn't proven to be better than Geno.   Vick has proven to get your team on ESPN. He's proven he will get hurt. He's proven he will fumble the ball.  But he hasn't really proven he's that great of a QB.   

Very good, well thought out response, and really I cant argue with many of the points you make. You mentioned also that you were against Schaub and McCown. So how do you want the Jets to approach the QB situation?

[#27TheDominator]

A "young" 34? In the NFL what does that mean?  Only retired for 4 years?  Geno won 8 games last year.  Vick won more games than that once in his career and it was 2004

[joewillie78]

A "young" 34? In the NFL what does that mean?  Only retired for 4 years?  Geno won 8 games last year.  Vick won more games than that once in his career and it was 2004

Didn't I explain it in my last post. 2 years in Prison, and essentially last year on the bench, so at least 3 years, recently mind you, where he took very few hits or none at all, Unless he got abused in prison?

[joewilly12]

Vick early on his career wasn't known for his arm he ran a lot ive noticed later in his career hes got a cannon and can really fling the pigskin. If MM can convince Idzok and Rex that Vick can help this team he will be on the Jets roster on opening day he might not be the starter though.

[joewillie78]

Vick early on his career wasn't known for his arm he ran a lot ive noticed later in his career hes got a cannon and can really fling the pigskin. If MM can convince Idzok and Rex that Vick can help this team he will be on the Jets roster on opening day he might not be the starter though.

I thought you were an anti-Vick guy? You change your mind or do I have you confused with someone else. I thought you were basically a give the job to Geno for his to lose.

[joewilly12]

I thought you were an anti-Vick guy? You change your mind or do I have you confused with someone else. I thought you were basically a give the job to Geno for his to lose.

Im not anti-Vick im all in for Geno Smith he needs WRs and  a TE we need a backup QB don't we?