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get ready for Geno/Vick competition. Shefter

eboozer

By eboozer
in NY Jets Forum

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Big Blocker

Big Blocker

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Actually, most of this is untrue.  For starters, Vick's career rating is actually 80.9.  Yes, that is still better than the rating from Geno's lone rookie year, but it's interesting to note that Vick's rookie year was even worse.  Also not sure what your point about Geno's completion percentage is given that Vick's 11 year career lands him at a mere 0.4% higher than that.

 

And most importantly of all, Vick's recent seasons are in absolutely no way trending up.  His entire career has been trending downward ever since 2010, when he had his one quality season as a passer.  The bottom line is that Vick has pretty much always been a crappy passer and now is only getting older, more injury prone, and overall worse in the process.  Consider that none of the points being made were to praise Sanchez or Geno, it's to point out that Vick is pretty much just as awful of a passer.

 

The Jets certainly need to find themselves a realistic veteran option at QB, you won't see me argue you there at all, but I feel fairly confident that Vick is not it.  In truth, Vick is the embodiment of everything we want Geno not to turn out to be.

 

Hm.  Since at this point we don't even have a guarantee that Smith will still be in the league in two years, it's kind of hard for me to see how you make this kind of post.

 

Ftr I know many Smith fans think he turned the corner in the last four games.  I didn't see enough to base that on.  In short I am not banking on Smith trending up signficantly.

 

I also would imagine only in a portion of the Jet fanbase will you find signficant NFL fans who think it a given that Smith is destined to turn out to be a better Qb than Vick.

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slats

slats

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Hm. Since at this point we don't even have a guarantee that Smith will still be in the league in two years, it's kind of hard for me to see how you make this kind of post.

Ftr I know many Smith fans think he turned the corner in the last four games. I didn't see enough to base that on. In short I am not banking on Smith trending up signficantly.

I also would imagine only in a portion of the Jet fanbase will you find signficant NFL fans who think it a given that Smith is destined to turn out to be a better Qb than Vick.

Geno's last four games last season were statistically better than Vick's career.

I don't think anyone is banking on Geno. I think people are simply saying that Vick isn't a good option. He's a turnover-prone, injury-prone, running QB on the tail-end of his career. He's also a lefty on a team whose biggest investment on offense is at left tackle. Being familiar with Mornhinweg's offense is the only reason to bring him here, and frankly, I don't think that overcomes all the bad.

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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Hm.  Since at this point we don't even have a guarantee that Smith will still be in the league in two years, it's kind of hard for me to see how you make this kind of post.

 

Ftr I know many Smith fans think he turned the corner in the last four games.  I didn't see enough to base that on.  In short I am not banking on Smith trending up signficantly.

 

I also would imagine only in a portion of the Jet fanbase will you find signficant NFL fans who think it a given that Smith is destined to turn out to be a better Qb than Vick.

 

In reality, that is an awfully low bar.

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Bleedin Green

Bleedin Green

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Hm.  Since at this point we don't even have a guarantee that Smith will still be in the league in two years, it's kind of hard for me to see how you make this kind of post.

 

Ftr I know many Smith fans think he turned the corner in the last four games.  I didn't see enough to base that on.  In short I am not banking on Smith trending up signficantly.

 

I also would imagine only in a portion of the Jet fanbase will you find signficant NFL fans who think it a given that Smith is destined to turn out to be a better Qb than Vick.

 

Perhaps you're right, but I'm still not sure why any of that would be expected to impact my point, considering it was about Vick, not Smith.  Smith could be out of the league tomorrow, but that still doesn't change that Vick is and always has been a horrible passer.  He's now also old, washed up, and more injury prone than ever.  The Jets absolutely need to address the QB position, but Vick sure as hell isn't the answer.

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Big Blocker

Big Blocker

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Geno's last four games last season were statistically better than Vick's career.

I don't think anyone is banking on Geno. I think people are simply saying that Vick isn't a good option. He's a turnover-prone, injury-prone, running QB on the tail-end of his career. He's also a lefty on a team whose biggest investment on offense is at left tackle. Being familiar with Mornhinweg's offense is the only reason to bring him here, and frankly, I don't think that overcomes all the bad.

 

I don't disagree weith anything you said.  I was disagreeing with the post i quoted.  Except at this point, original investment or not, I think for some time Mangold has been the better player than Ferguson.  My concern about Vick is his injury history.

 

Stiil I would expect him to win a Qb competition with Smith, if given the chance.

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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I don't disagree weith anything you said.  I was disagreeing with the post i quoted.  Except at this point, original investment or not, I think for some time Mangold has been the better player than Ferguson.  My concern about Vick is his injury history.

 

Stiil I would expect him to win a Qb competition with Smith, if given the chance.

 

I wouldn't. Geno already showed a better ability to read defenses than Vick last year. 

 

Seriously, Michael Vick is an awful football player. 

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pedro55

pedro55

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Hm.  Since at this point we don't even have a guarantee that Smith will still be in the league in two years, it's kind of hard for me to see how you make this kind of post.

 

Ftr I know many Smith fans think he turned the corner in the last four games.  I didn't see enough to base that on.  In short I am not banking on Smith trending up signficantly.

 

I also would imagine only in a portion of the Jet fanbase will you find signficant NFL fans who think it a given that Smith is destined to turn out to be a better Qb than Vick.

 

 

  Vick comes with baggage.  He comes with media attention.  He comes with people who would rather the guy die in a car accident than see him play for their team.  And this is around the country.     That is a circus and not a good one.    And add to this he wants to be a starter and has said that,  he has serious fumbling issues,  and he's pretty much been an injury prone guy who misses quarters and games all the time.  

 

Vick has benefited from ESPN & the media showing a few great highlights and most people think wow.   But somebody who watched the game would realize he had a nice 1st quarter, sat out the 2nd quarter because he was hurt, came back in the 3rd and sucked,  and then got hurt again in the 4th quarter.     The sad part is this is pretty much his career.   He essentially had a gift wrapped situation in Philly with some talented players around him.   But due to him sucking, him fumbling, and him being injured,  Nick Foles became the star and Vick became a guy they want to dump.      

 

 So yeah, not sure why I'd be excited if the Jets pick up a guy who had a starting QB job handed to him after all his crap and pretty much blew it for various reasons.     Or it'll be another one of those dumbfounded moments like Garrard and people are shocked he can't play or is injured.  I never got that last year, but plenty of Jets fans were all over that move as good.  Sometimes people can't accept the truth about a player.

 

  Vick would come in expecting to be the starter.  And if Geno plays like he did for most of last season,  Vick probably wins without ever needing to do anything.   And then in week 2 Vick gets injured or has an excuse about some injury on why he turned the ball over and the Jets lost.   So Geno comes into the mix, but Vick is back for week 4.   But he gets hurt again and Geno is forced to start in Week 6.    This is what you get with Vick.   How that would help Geno is beyond me.   He's be a guy who lost his starting job and would be forced to play every few games because the starting QB gets hurt.  He'd also be forced to watch a guy who just isn't that good.   And the Eagles had a talented offense.

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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Geno's last four games last season were statistically better than Vick's career.

I don't think anyone is banking on Geno. I think people are simply saying that Vick isn't a good option. He's a turnover-prone, injury-prone, running QB on the tail-end of his career. He's also a lefty on a team whose biggest investment on offense is at left tackle. Being familiar with Mornhinweg's offense is the only reason to bring him here, and frankly, I don't think that overcomes all the bad.

You should watch Matt Williamson right now on ESPN, in the section where they are going over teams need, and players to watch, and in the video, the lady interviewing Matt asks him about anything good he saw in GENO SMITH last year, and his answer is: he saw BASICALLY NOTHING in Geno Smith.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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You should watch Matt Williamson right now on ESPN, in the section where they are going over teams need, and players to watch, and in the video, the lady interviewing Matt asks him about anything good he saw in GENO SMITH last year, and his answer is: he saw BASICALLY NOTHING in Geno Smith.

NOT MATT WILLIAMSON! NO! NOOOO!!! WHY MATT?!?!? WHYYYYYYYY??!!!???

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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You should watch Matt Williamson right now on ESPN, in the section where they are going over teams need, and players to watch, and in the video, the lady interviewing Matt asks him about anything good he saw in GENO SMITH last year, and his answer is: he saw BASICALLY NOTHING in Geno Smith.

 

Matt WIlliamson.  Be all.  End all. 

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slats

slats

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You should watch Matt Williamson right now on ESPN, in the section where they are going over teams need, and players to watch, and in the video, the lady interviewing Matt asks him about anything good he saw in GENO SMITH last year, and his answer is: he saw BASICALLY NOTHING in Geno Smith.

Nothing? I guess he didn't notice that Geno fumbles less often than Michael Vick, then. Because that's something.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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I love Matt Williamson, dude knows his stuff. Always right on with his analysis, although in this case, Stevie Wonder and Helen keller could see as Williamson states, has "basically nothing" good going for him.

Cause they're blind!!!

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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You keep finding out as you learn more and more about Sanchez, that the depths in which he really stunk were far beyond one's imagination.

Manziel is a baller and a gamer. Should be the #1 draft pick.

Could you operationalize "baller" and "gamer" for me? Also, can you be one without the other?

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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Could you operationalize "baller" and "gamer" for me? Also, can you be one without the other?

Baller and gamer can be used separately or together, and in this case their meaning is "multiple SuperBowl winner",  when applied to Manziel.

 

Stick with me, and I will teach you all this unbelievable knowledge I possess.

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ZachEY

ZachEY

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Baller and gamer can be used separately or together, and in this case their meaning is "multiple SuperBowl winner", when applied to Manziel.

Stick with me, and I will teach you all this unbelievable knowledge I possess.

Chad was a gamer, but not a baller... Is that why he almost made it to an AFC championship once?

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

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 http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47561/nfl-with-matt-williamson

Will (Philly)

What are your thoughts on Geno Smith as a prospect?

Matt Williamson
  (12:16 PM)


I see a late first rounder/early 2nd rounder-most years. Has ability for sure, but I have my share of doubts. Erratic accuracy. Plus athlete, but doesn't really use those skills

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10125470/nfl-diagnosing-new-york-jets-problems

 

 

Geno Smith, embattled rookie quarterback for the New York Jets, has a league-high 20 interceptions through 13 games this season. He is keeping decent company. Ben Roethlisberger, Matthew Stafford, Eli Manning and Jay Cutler also threw 20-plus picks to this point in a season in their careers. Stafford actually had a lower passer rating and similarly dismal Total QBR score back in his 2009 rookie season, a reminder that first-year players tend to struggle, particularly when paired with vastly undermanned rosters.

Of course, some young quarterbacks never seem to recover from harrowing experiences suffered early in their careers. The fact that Stafford improved after struggling early assures nothing for Smith. The key for the Jets is to figure out how to improve their team in general and, specifically, their quarterback situation. Is Smith the long-term answer in New York? ESPN.com NFL scout Matt Williamson and NFL Insider columnist Mike Sando diagnose the Jets' problems and offer solutions.

Can Smith improve?

Williamson: It's time to worry about whether Smith is going to deal with David Carrsyndrome. There are so many things working against him. The Jets even put Matt Simms in the game a couple of times this season, because they don't have anyone else. To give Geno the benefit of the doubt, this really should have been a redshirt year for him. He was probably less ready for Week 1 than any recent QB I can remember. He was highly productive in college running a spread system from the shotgun and throwing to small, quick guys, but he never took snaps from behind center. Everyone has a hard time as a rookie adjusting to the pro game. He had never taken the drops from under center in what is more or less a timing-, rhythm-based West Coast offense the Jets are running. I'm not saying he was a bad fit, but it's a rough transition.

 

That is from before his good run to close out the season.  Basically he had the 13th game (Oakland) after his horrific stretch.  Seems like a rational response and not one that goes along with the bashing. The guy does not seem to be saying a new QB is necessary, though he doesn't guarantee Geno will snap out of it.  Sort of like most rational people on the board. 

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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 http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/47561/nfl-with-matt-williamson

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10125470/nfl-diagnosing-new-york-jets-problems

 

 

That is from before his good run to close out the season.  Basically he had the 13th game (Oakland) after his horrific stretch.  Seems like a rational response and not one that goes along with the bashing. The guy does not seem to be saying a new QB is necessary, though he doesn't guarantee Geno will snap out of it.  Sort of like most rational people on the board. 

I'll do you all of favor and condense what Mr. Williamson said in this Diatribe:

 

HE STINKS.

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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Don't quite know what operationalize means but i want to use it all the time now. 

It means that he learned to take the suffix, "alize", and add to any word, and try to confuse us. Like

 

Sanchezalize

or Rexalize

or Jetsalize

 

Works every time, you can even do Bitontialize, get it?

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Klecko73isGod

Klecko73isGod

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You should watch Matt Williamson right now on ESPN, in the section where they are going over teams need, and players to watch, and in the video, the lady interviewing Matt asks him about anything good he saw in GENO SMITH last year, and his answer is: he saw BASICALLY NOTHING in Geno Smith.

 

 

NOT MATT WILLIAMSON! NO! NOOOO!!! WHY MATT?!?!? WHYYYYYYYY??!!!???

 

 

Matt WIlliamson.  Be all.  End all. 

 

 

I love Matt Williamson, dude knows his stuff. Always right on with his analysis, although in this case, Stevie Wonder and Helen keller could see as Williamson states, has "basically nothing" good going for him.

 

 

You're no Matt Williamson.

#mattwilliamson

 

 

Who the **** is Matt Williamson?

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joewillie78

joewillie78

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looks like we might not be the only ones interested in this pos.  AP apparently wants him on the vikes:

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10561231/adrian-peterson-lobbies-minnesota-vikings-sign-free-agent-qb-michael-vick

 

(sorry for just the link not sure how to include the full article)

We have the two double M's(MM) going for us. We have Marty Mornhinweg, and we have More Money, than the Vikings. We will win the bidding war for Mike Vick. Book it.

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eboozer

eboozer

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We have the two double M's(MM) going for us. We have Marty Mornhinweg, and we have More Money, than the Vikings. We will win the bidding war for Mike Vick. Book it.

Would Vick rather have AP running behind him or Ivory? Cordarelle Patterson catching it or Stephen Hill?

 

Bye- Bye Mike!

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