Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You're concerned about offense? Fine. But besides Decker, there have been no upgrades on offense on what should have been an easy-to-upgrade offense. Zero. We swapped one mediocre RT for another mediocre RT, our LG still sucks, we don't even have an RG. We have no one that can catch the ball out of the backfield. We don't have a TE that is a legitimate NFL starter. Let me know when Idzik finally wakes up and does something about any of that, then we'll talk. You were the loudest one screaming that we didn't re-sign Howard by out-bidding the $6M that Oakland paid him. Now he's mediocre? You were in favor of eclipsing $6M/year - top 5 for his position - for a guy you think is mediocre? Hard to take your complaining seriously when you want to give mediocre guys top 5 money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You were the loudest one screaming that we didn't re-sign Howard by out-bidding the $6M that Oakland paid him. Now he's mediocre? You were in favor of eclipsing $6M/year - top 5 for his position - for a guy you think is mediocre? Hard to take your complaining seriously when you want to give mediocre guys top 5 money. Really? I don't remember saying that at all. I believe I said that I would be willing to give Howard $6, because that's what analysts were saying was his true value on the market. So, hey, I'm glad that Idzik might have saved a few million on a lateral deal. Great job. Saving money is only part of the equation, upgrading the team (which Idzik isn't doing) is the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 You were the loudest one screaming that we didn't re-sign Howard by out-bidding the $6M that Oakland paid him. Now he's mediocre? You were in favor of eclipsing $6M/year - top 5 for his position - for a guy you think is mediocre? Hard to take your complaining seriously when you want to give mediocre guys top 5 money. I think we have been concerned that he wasn't re-signed before he hit FA. It's been said by one of the beat writers(noy named MM) that they were within a hundred thousand dollars of getting a deal done.... If that is true, then Idzik's stance of not budging an inch may have cost us keeping Howard at a reasonable price and would have allowed us to sign Gemo as a RG, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Really? I don't remember saying that at all. I believe I said that I would be willing to give Howard $6, because that's what analysts were saying was his true value on the market. So, hey, I'm glad that Idzik might have saved a few million on a lateral deal. Great job. Saving money is only part of the equation, upgrading the team (which Idzik isn't doing) is the other. You were freaking apoplectic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I think we have been concerned that he wasn't re-signed before he hit FA. It's been said by one of the beat writers(noy named MM) that they were within a hundred thousand dollars of getting a deal done.... If that is true, then Idzik's stance of not budging an inch may have cost us keeping Howard at a reasonable price and would have allowed us to sign Gemo as a RG, perhaps. Howard was not signed at a reasonable price, though. Eclipsing an unreasonable amount does not equal a reasonable amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Howard was not signed at a reasonable price, though. Eclipsing an unreasonable amount does not equal a reasonable amount. Not after other teams were allowed to contact them.... That's when we lost the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Not after other teams were allowed to contact them.... That's when we lost the deal. Really. You know this how? The only report is that we went above his worth to something like $5.5M and Howard said since he wanted $7M he wanted to see if $5.5M is the top offer he could get. In other words, the only thing keeping Howard from testing the FA waters was coming within an earshot of $7M/year. How could anyone possibly be in favor of this? It is your personal fantasy that Howard could have been signed to $4M if only we'd started the process whenever. There is zero basis for it. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Really. You know this how? The only report is that we went above his worth to something like $5.5M and Howard said since he wanted $7M he wanted to see if $5.5M is the top offer he could get. In other words, the only thing keeping Howard from testing the FA waters was coming within an earshot of $7M/year. How could anyone possibly be in favor of this? It is your personal fantasy that Howard could have been signed to $4M if only we'd started the process whenever. There is zero basis for it. Zero. Really. You know this how? If it was said that they were within a hundred thousand dollars, and Idzik was only offering $5.5 then maybe this was before Howard found out he could get $7....which I don't think he actually got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Breno Giacomini (NYJ) Contract Details Four-year contract worth $18 million. Giacomini received $7 million in fully guaranteed salary made up of a $2.5 million signing bonus, $1 million roster bonus, $1 million base salary in 2014, and $2.5 million of his 2015 base salary. Contract Analysis Fair market value for a right tackle, Giacomini’s $2.5 million 2015 base guarantee means this will be at least a two-year deal. His cap $5.125 million cap hit in 2016 and 2017 are both reasonable, so Giacomini could certainly play out the entirety of this deal. PFF Analysis If you don’t include the postseason, Giacomini played less than half of the snaps than former Jets’ right tackle Austin Howard in 2013. Putting his past concerns with injuries and penalties aside, the Jets added a fair value here compared to the rest of the right tackle market (Oher and Howard). Giacomini has a reputation as a plus run blocker, but he has graded out negatively in run blocking in the past two seasons. In 2013, he finished as the as the 41st-best tackle overall out of 76 qualifiers who played at least 25% of their team’s snaps. Austin Howard (OAK) Contract Details Five-year contract worth $30 million. Howard received a $5 million roster bonus and fully guaranteed base salary in 2014. His 2015 base salary is guaranteed for injury and will become fully guaranteed in March of 2015. Howard will receive a $3 million roster bonus on the 5th day of the 2015 League Year. Base salaries of the contract are $2,900,000(2014), $3,900,000(2015), $4,400,000(2016), $4,900,000(2017), $5,400,000(2018). Contract Analysis While GM Reggie McKenzie has been torn apart for his 2014 offseason work, at least he structured this deal the right way. The lack of a signing bonus means no dead money is attached to this contract after 2014. Howard automatically gets $7.9 million in his pocket, but has no job security beyond that. PFF Analysis Howard started off 2013 right where he left off in 2012–posting a healthy (+8.2) overall grade after finishing 2012 as the 31st-best tackle overall. His production tailed off late in the season, specifically in the run game where he finished as the ninth-worst run blocker out of 60 tackles who played 50% of their team’s snaps or more. Still, at 6-foot-7, 333 pounds, Howard certainly has both age and size on his side. At the same time, his contract was nearly identical to Anthony Collins, who has graded out much stronger than Howard in almost every aspect of his game over the past two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Breno Giacomini (NYJ) Contract Details Four-year contract worth $18 million. Giacomini received $7 million in fully guaranteed salary made up of a $2.5 million signing bonus, $1 million roster bonus, $1 million base salary in 2014, and $2.5 million of his 2015 base salary. Contract Analysis Fair market value for a right tackle, Giacomini’s $2.5 million 2015 base guarantee means this will be at least a two-year deal. His cap $5.125 million cap hit in 2016 and 2017 are both reasonable, so Giacomini could certainly play out the entirety of this deal. PFF Analysis If you don’t include the postseason, Giacomini played less than half of the snaps than former Jets’ right tackle Austin Howard in 2013. Putting his past concerns with injuries and penalties aside, the Jets added a fair value here compared to the rest of the right tackle market (Oher and Howard). Giacomini has a reputation as a plus run blocker, but he has graded out negatively in run blocking in the past two seasons. In 2013, he finished as the as the 41st-best tackle overall out of 76 qualifiers who played at least 25% of their team’s snaps. Austin Howard (OAK) Contract Details Five-year contract worth $30 million. Howard received a $5 million roster bonus and fully guaranteed base salary in 2014. His 2015 base salary is guaranteed for injury and will become fully guaranteed in March of 2015. Howard will receive a $3 million roster bonus on the 5th day of the 2015 League Year. Base salaries of the contract are $2,900,000(2014), $3,900,000(2015), $4,400,000(2016), $4,900,000(2017), $5,400,000(2018). Contract Analysis While GM Reggie McKenzie has been torn apart for his 2014 offseason work, at least he structured this deal the right way. The lack of a signing bonus means no dead money is attached to this contract after 2014. Howard automatically gets $7.9 million in his pocket, but has no job security beyond that. PFF Analysis Howard started off 2013 right where he left off in 2012–posting a healthy (+8.2) overall grade after finishing 2012 as the 31st-best tackle overall. His production tailed off late in the season, specifically in the run game where he finished as the ninth-worst run blocker out of 60 tackles who played 50% of their team’s snaps or more. Still, at 6-foot-7, 333 pounds, Howard certainly has both age and size on his side. At the same time, his contract was nearly identical to Anthony Collins, who has graded out much stronger than Howard in almost every aspect of his game over the past two seasons. How will the Raiders ever get out from under that ludicrous contract? HOW WILL THEY EVER SURVIVE IT???? We are so lucky to have Idzik!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I love that Idzik isn't spending stupidly like trader Mike did to leave us in the current mess we just emerged from. He knows without a real head coach and as many holes as we have to fill next year is going to be a work in progress again. Let the buffoon start the rooks and get them some in game training then next year go after a coach smarter than a rock (who likes feet less) and fill some more holes through draft and smart spending in free agency. The proper (and slower) way to build a team is through the draft. Teams like the Fins, Skins, and Jets are living testaments to that fact unless we want to keep celebrating that time we made the afc championship 2 years in a row trophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't know where all this hate is coming from. Why is it crazy to think that a team with 40m to spend and a weakness at corner and safety should do SOMETHING to improve? its contagious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I love that Idzik isn't spending stupidly like trader Mike did to leave us in the current mess we just emerged from. He knows without a real head coach and as many holes as we have to fill next year is going to be a work in progress again. Let the buffoon start the rooks and get them some in game training then next year go after a coach smarter than a rock (who likes feet less) and fill some more holes through draft and smart spending in free agency. The proper (and slower) way to build a team is through the draft. Teams like the Fins, Skins, and Jets are living testaments to that fact unless we want to keep celebrating that time we made the afc championship 2 years in a row trophy. Just curious.... How long are you willing to wait ? Do you think we will have arrived in 2 yrs.; 3 yrs; 4 yrs? How long does he get a pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Rodgers Cromartie is a washed up bum anyways. Who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Just curious.... How long are you willing to wait ? Do you think we will have arrived in 2 yrs.; 3 yrs; 4 yrs? How long does he get a pass? Without a QB I think we are just spinning our wheels but I'd like to see us back into the playoff picture by the 2015 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Without a QB I think we are just spinning our wheels but I'd like to see us back into the playoff picture by the 2015 season. OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't know where all this hate is coming from. Why is it crazy to think that a team with 40m to spend and a weakness at corner and safety should do SOMETHING to improve? Because that's not how you improve the right way. The cap space will carry over to next year. Idzik is slow-playing this for good reason. The teams that win these bidding wars will be the ones whose windows close the quickest. We want to create a franchise whose window for a title is open, say, 8 out of 10 years rather than 2 or 3 out of 10 (I.E. the Tannenbaum way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I get why corner looks like a gaping hole here. Rex loves good press corners and his defense is predicated on it. It's not a coincidence why we draft corners round 1 so frequently. But in terms of building this team, the Jets have struggled being even a league average offense. Their defense has been at least top 11 the entire time rex has been here. Their offense has been above top 20 once i think. They're among the worst in the league the past few years turning the ball over and have struggled recently getting turnovers. I never understood the idea that Rex "needs" great CB's or he can't field a D. Last season Cromartie couldn't cover anyone and rather than make an adjustment Rex kept dialing up the D where the ball goes over Cro's head for TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I never understood the idea that Rex "needs" great CB's or he can't field a D. Last season Cromartie couldn't cover anyone and rather than make an adjustment Rex kept dialing up the D where the ball goes over Cro's head for TD. ...yet the defense was still mid-pack and the offense bottom of the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Just curious.... How long are you willing to wait ? Do you think we will have arrived in 2 yrs.; 3 yrs; 4 yrs? How long does he get a pass? It took 2 or 3 years for Tannenbaum to get us into a giant mess. Idzik should be given 2 or 3 years before we begin to truly pass judgment. None of the moves he's made look like they're going to kill us, and a few of them look like they're going to help us for a long time (namely, Richardson and perhaps Decker). Early returns may not be as promising as you would like to see, but having a GM who minimizes risk is important to have around in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It took 2 or 3 years for Tannenbaum to get us into a giant mess. Idzik should be given 2 or 3 years before we begin to truly pass judgment. None of the moves he's made look like they're going to kill us, and a few of them look like they're going to help us for a long time (namely, Richardson and perhaps Decker). Early returns may not be as promising as you would like to see, but having a GM who minimizes risk is important to have around in the long run. OK.... I look forward to either 2015, 2016 or 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It took 2 or 3 years for Tannenbaum to get us into a giant mess. Idzik should be given 2 or 3 years before we begin to truly pass judgment. None of the moves he's made look like they're going to kill us, and a few of them look like they're going to help us for a long time (namely, Richardson and perhaps Decker). Early returns may not be as promising as you would like to see, but having a GM who minimizes risk is important to have around in the long run. I don't think the moves that he made are going to kill us, but it might be the moves that he didn't make. Last year, we were 8-8, that was overachievement. If nothing notable is done, then this year we may win 8 all over again... or we may even go backwards. Talk is cheap, show me some action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 $11m would have solidified us at both corner and WR in DRC and Jones. Does $11m put you in "cap hell" when you're 30+ under? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 ...yet the defense was still mid-pack and the offense bottom of the barrel. wilson, milliner, cromartie, richardson, wilkerson, pace = 1st rd picks. The defense is absolutely loaded with talent. The offense was starting WRs who were literally out of football when the season started. Not actually sure what your point is, we may be saying the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 wilson, milliner, cromartie, richardson, wilkerson, pace = 1st rd picks. The defense is absolutely loaded with talent. The offense was starting WRs who were literally out of football when the season started. Not actually sure what your point is, we may be saying the same thing? Could be. Everyone knows that we need O more than D, but I don't the D was bad last season even with Cro falling off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Brian Costello @BrianCoz 2m An agent told me the other day that Idzik "won't budge an inch" in negotiations. I think we're seeing that. #nyj He did with Decker. If you're good you will be rewarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 1m #Giants were far more aggressive in recruiting DRC, benefitted from him being in their building. #Jets made a last-ditch offer, but too late JETS are foolish and can never get it right. Its not like those other smart teams who make last ditch offers for players that are close to signing with another team to just up the price and make the other team pay more. In this case the first tweet was for 35 mill and the price ended up being 39 mill for the contract. i wonder why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't think the moves that he made are going to kill us, but it might be the moves that he didn't make. Last year, we were 8-8, that was overachievement. If nothing notable is done, then this year we may win 8 all over again... or we may even go backwards. Talk is cheap, show me some action. If you think we were the type of team that could go from 8-8 to 11-5, you're dreaming. We had bottom 5 QB play, no receivers, and bad pass defense. Had Idzik used up all our cap dollars to try to fix our problems, we probably go 9-7 next season. I'd rather put the emphasis on the draft and go 6-10 or 7-9 this year if that means setting ourselves up for long-term success. That would perhaps give the anti-Rex crowd their wish and usher in a new Head Coach, but that's the price you pay. If Geno isn't the guy we're not a contender yet. That's the # 1 task for Idzik. Right now he's making moves so that, when we do find our QB, we'll be able to ramp up to be a perennial contender for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoicsentry Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If you think we were the type of team that could go from 8-8 to 11-5, you're dreaming. We had bottom 5 QB play, no receivers, and bad pass defense. Had Idzik used up all our cap dollars to try to fix our problems, we probably go 9-7 next season. I'd rather put the emphasis on the draft and go 6-10 or 7-9 this year if that means setting ourselves up for long-term success. If Geno isn't the guy we're not a contender yet. That's the # 1 task for Idzik. Right now he's making moves so that, when we do find our QB, we'll be able to ramp up to be a perennial contender for many years. We had bottom 5 QB play, no receivers and a bad pass defense last year. Therefore, the answer is... don't do anything in free agency to improve that and just pray for the best? #ComeOnMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 We had bottom 5 QB play, no receivers and a bad pass defense last year. Therefore, the answer is... don't do anything in free agency to improve that and just pray for the best? #ComeOnMan In our situation, only make moves in free agency that improve your long-term prospects. Decker fits the bill. At 27, he'll be around for several years if our QB of the future (Geno or otherwise) emerges. Signing 30+ year old, expensive types? Nope. Not in the cards. And why should they be? We want players who will be around to help us in 2015 and '16. Would Revis have helped us? Come here for 1 year for $12-13M, help us get to 8-8 or 9-7 then leave for another team that's willing to pay him, and not be here when we're in a position to make a deep playoff run. Not the right call. Lot's of the other FA's that were signed fall in this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGDIRK Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Because that's not how you improve the right way. The cap space will carry over to next year. Idzik is slow-playing this for good reason. The teams that win these bidding wars will be the ones whose windows close the quickest. We want to create a franchise whose window for a title is open, say, 8 out of 10 years rather than 2 or 3 out of 10 (I.E. the Tannenbaum way). In the next 24 months, there's only one player on the current roster that will require a big $$ extension - thats Mo Wilk. So what exactly are you slow playing? I am not saying spend the 40M of cap space immediately but not filling some needs at somewhat reasonable prices doesnt make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 In the next 24 months, there's only one player on the current roster that will require a big $$ extension - thats Mo Wilk. So what exactly are you slow playing? I am not saying spend the 40M of cap space immediately but not filling some needs at somewhat reasonable prices doesnt make a lot of sense. Which quality players at reasonable prices did we miss out on? Vontae Davis is the only "whiff" for Idzik so far. We had no interest in the likes of these older free agents or pricey ones at luxury positions. This free agent class simply wasn't very impressive overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishing92070 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If you think we were the type of team that could go from 8-8 to 11-5, you're dreaming. We had bottom 5 QB play, no receivers, and bad pass defense. Had Idzik used up all our cap dollars to try to fix our problems, we probably go 9-7 next season. I'd rather put the emphasis on the draft and go 6-10 or 7-9 this year if that means setting ourselves up for long-term success. That would perhaps give the anti-Rex crowd their wish and usher in a new Head Coach, but that's the price you pay. If Geno isn't the guy we're not a contender yet. That's the # 1 task for Idzik. Right now he's making moves so that, when we do find our QB, we'll be able to ramp up to be a perennial contender for many years. I like what Idzik is doing so far. He is spending money wisely and getting quality players at a decent price. The two players he just added both have Superbowl experience too which nobody has mentioned. That shows the type of players he is looking for. Coming in, Idzik had a 3-4 year plan and he is sticking to it. I did not think Rex is part of the plan though and after this season Geno will also not be part of his plan. Lets see what he does in the draft with his own scouts. I would rather have a team built through the draft with young players for the long haul rather than a quick fix with overpaid free agents. I want to be good for the next ten years. Not two years and start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Brian Costello @BrianCoz 2m An agent told me the other day that Idzik "won't budge an inch" in negotiations. I think we're seeing that. #nyj People like this always worry me. They'd rather be "right" than win. I think DRC for $7M/season was a pretty reasonable price tag with a $133M cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Really. You know this how? If it was said that they were within a hundred thousand dollars, and Idzik was only offering $5.5 then maybe this was before Howard found out he could get $7....which I don't think he actually got. Unless you're too young to have negotiated with anyone for anything, which I doubt, it is obvious: Idzik went up to $5.5M. Unless you have some type of evidence that he started at his maximum, of course. At some point you hit your maximum. If you fall in love with anything you're paying for, whether it's a player or a car or a house, you're going to probably get a bad deal unless there's compromise on both sides. I don't blame Howard one bit for getting all he could, but I don't blame us for not being the Raiders and giving it to him. And the $5.5M that we allegedly offered was too high for Howard anyway. He's not even average; he's almost average, and that was based on sack numbers that went down with a mobile QB. I think it's foolish to give top-5 money to a below-average player. You can disagree, but it's also your right to disagree that a Kia isn't worth the same money as a Ferrari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.