Il Mostro Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Except that when you pay a landscaper to do a job, doing nothing is NEVER what you're paying him to do. Sometimes a GM's job is to NOT do things, unlike a landscaper who is never asked to stop and think of the long-term future instead of mowing the now foot-high lawn. A good GM should know when to make a move, when to make a move but only at a certain price, and when to go "all in" if enough pieces are there. People used to complain every single season, every single offseason, and especially after every loss, that we weren't building enough through the draft, then filling the few remaining holes in FA and spend big doing it. Well we still have more than a few holes (and a few more that aren't holes per se, but we sure could use upgrades). Building through the draft doesn't mean drafting a class and giving them 1 season to show something, and if they aren't good as rookies then ditch them and spend all-out in FA and never give those guys 2nd seasons. Well we got that now. And the complaints are even bigger than before. If we were in NE's position, with a great QB (even if he's not as great as he once was), and enough elsewhere to say they have a good chance of winning a SB this year if they had this or that player here or there. BB is a defensive guy who keeps getting knocked out of the playoffs because his defense is letting them down. Then he sees Seattle shut down the #1 offense ever, and accepts that he sucks ass at drafting CBs, and signs 2 ready-now corners. It's smart for him because of the situation NE is in. Those same moves are not smart for us because we aren't remotely in their situation. We don't have a sure thing with 1-3 years left. We have a 2nd year never-was who we hope takes 10 steps forward from his rookie season, since that's what will be required for him to just be average. Going all-in on Geno Smith is no smarter than Tannenbaum going all-in on Mark Sanchez. It is doing the exactly same thing. Exactly. And that's what people want? And that is what passes for "smart" GMing now? We're supposed to be happy when the team's GM doesn't pay top dollar or above-average dollar for below-average talent. We're supposed to be happy that the GM wants to build through the draft, and give those draft picks more than 1 rookie season to show they're as good as seasoned veterans. This was suppposed to be the answer to prayers that people have asked for for years. Now it's a source of misery. lol This is the crux of the team's current position and the point that many fail to grasp -- instead complaining because the Jets are not getting into a pissing contest over the current free agent crop. The Broncos and NE made the biggest FA splashes because it was the right tactic for them as their teams stand. The Jets are equally smart for pulling a page out of the book of Costanza and embracing the philosophy of doing the opposite. Not too difficult to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 ANGEL CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was posting by using the voice recognition feature, apparently it didn't work lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Fair enough. Hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion but I think it's a matter of volume. The # of posts that have been generated every day about how horrible things are has grown exponentially. The first few times, hey, whatever; Jets fans complaining is nothing that should draw attention. But it's nonstop. More and more and more and more and more. When the same people regurgitate the same opinion it gets on others' nerves. And to read the way it comes across, one can practically hear the - let's call them "critics" - screaming from their keyboards. And for some, it's based on not spending money for the sake of spending it IMO. Like I should feel more comfortable about a so-so RT if he cost $6M/year instead of about half that. Or the barrage of complaints about not signing someone like Pettigrew to a $5M/year contract to make sure his prior team didn't one-up us. Idzik has 1 year of GMing under his belt. Even if you like him so far, as I do, you still can't give him a full grade. I think things he's done that have been very good get brushed aside as though anyone would have done exactly the same thing and gotten exactly the same results (like getting a higher first round pick for Revis, with 1 suitor, when the guy needs a new $16M/year contract to keep him). I think this is a convenient stance to take, and some of the same complainers were pissed he didn't take a 2nd & something else the next season, as was TB's alleged top offer, when they thought Idzik had overplayed his hand. Also it's convenient to overlook, by the non-moves, all the bad moves that were not made. Non-moves are never compared to bad moves in hindsight; they're only compared to moves that would have been tremendous boons to the franchise for years. Talk about a convenient position to take. I think those complaining - and hey, I complain plenty - are taking no less of a know-everything position than those who don't share the opinion. That if money is available, then it must be spent right away. My opinion is this is what got us into a hole that's taking us 3 years to climb out of (when you count the last year of Tannenbaum's tenure). Top players are worth top money. Mediocre ones are not. At the same time, a team that isn't a realistic contender right now has little business forking over $12M/year on a 1 year contract for a CB no matter how many years he once played for the Jets. I think you are very mistaken that Revis would have jumped on a deal as you described, but that's my opinion. That if he would have accepted that, then he wouldn't have required even a 1 year team option in NE to cost them some $25M. He wants to get back up to $16M asap, and is betting on himself on a 1 year deal in NE while 100% healthy the whole season. If he'd take $12-13M/year for an extended deal NE could have given him that. If that's truly what he wanted then he wouldn't have jumped at NE's 1 year deal before taking a few days to shop around as a FA. Last, I think it is an even bigger reach to believe that Idzik made that call - the call to not call - on his own. It's a non-move I agree with, and it isn't because I have any affinity for the non-self-made man that is Woody Johnson. I think his draft last year was good with the obvious exceptions of his OL picks. But they were all just rookies, and one of them (Campbell) was known to be a project from day 1. Smith was a value pick at a position of obvious need. Mornhinweg thinks he'll turn out ok (or that's what he sold Eric Decker anyway), and it's tough to expect immediate results from him based on his prior experience, limited snaps with starters last summer, and then an injury that limited him in the final weeks of his first NFL summer. He'll either improve or he won't. But I can hardly argue with the value of the pick, particularly in a piss poor QB draft. The rest of the offseason was filling stop-gap players with his limited resources. Also a rebuilding team needs draft picks, and it seems he wanted to max out on compensatory picks, which means not signing true UFAs when cut players will do as well (e.g. Willie Colon). This year we really had one MASSIVE need, and that was at receiver. I say only 1 massive need because it was a unit we needed multiple players for. For that, you have to do better than just drafting, since the odds of drafting and starting 2 rookie WRs is as close to zero as it is for Mark Sanchez to win the NFL MVP award this season (or ever). We have other areas of need, but they're a lot easier to find productive veterans for later IMO. Guard, a 3rd corner, a safety, a 3rd down back better than Powell, a TE...these positions I'd rather see what we can get in the draft from our mountain of picks, before we over-commit to huge dollars for a veteran who isn't a long-term solution anyway (like either corner NE signed) or frankly isn't good enough to justify the dollars it would have taken to get him (Howard, Pettigrew, and maybe DRC). I'm sure we're not done in free agency yet. I just think he had a plan to really use his loads of draft picks in a loaded draft to further build the team. What interrupts that is throwing huge dollars at players who aren't really that good, or who are temporary indulgences like Revis. So we signed the biggest name available at the biggest need position. We may yet sign another, but if we don't I really won't get into an uproar with such a deep WR draft coming up in a month. But it's all just opinion. Some people who come here for a release, or for a break from busy lives, or just for entertainment. It's annoying to them to see thread after thread about a singular opinion (that we have so much cap room and have no patience to not spend it heavily right away). How could a person seriously get ANGRY about not signing Austin Howard for over $6M/yr, Brandon Pettigrew for over $4M/yr, or both? Really? That's who some want locked in as the Jets' starter for the next 3 seasons? The same complaint about not signing them will turn into a complaint for having signed & locked into them for so much, and it wouldn't take until mid-season. Wasn't long ago people were furious with our GM for not sealing the deal on Asomugha. I think we know how that one would have turned out for us. Your last sentence sounds good, but it seems to only be a valid opinion - for critics - if one is critical. You can know he's terrible but you can't know that he isn't. It's tough to read this board the past few days and come away with thinking the angry folks feel anything but that. Maybe I'm just less critical because I don't see the Jets as true contenders until it's known that we have a true asset at the QB position. Until then, frankly, it's hard for me to get excited about who we supposedly lost out on. And someday I'll learn to hit the "Post" button in between my thoughts. Someday. If you broke your posts up every two paragraphs, we would have an extra million posts here by now. Great post though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 i wonder how many people make it past their first 6 months here as a new poster. 18.6% League average is 11.4% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 what makes someone a good poster or a bad poster? If you ask me it is 100% related to how much they post. But I think I am alone with my selection criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 If you pay a landscaper to take care of your yard and he sits around doing squat, letting the plants die... are you going to sit in your house and do nothing or get on the guys a$$ about screwing up? Why is it OK for people to come on here, with their rose colored glasses and just mindlessly praise Idzik for his Paralysis... saying it's uncanny wisdom? It's called "Ying AND Yang" and Newton's Third Law For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. For every "Kool-Aid drinking Idzik Zombie" there is a " Sky is Falling Pissed-off Maniac" It's the way of the world! Get used to it!! Paralysis is YOUR OPINION. That is the point here. Everyone has an opinion. So to answer your question...why is it okay for people to praise Idzik? Because we are fans. And it is okay to believe. That is why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I get that I am new here and don't know all the personalities, but there are many posters who are just flat out d!@ks, and that is unmistakeable. Im sure that will be the case anywhere, but there seem to be more of a percentage like that here. What is comical is how sure of themselves they are, and how right they all are and how they pat each other on the back for their intelligence and their Jet knowledge. I feel like this was a shot at me. Lol Regardless I don't knock anyone, I like the post & opinions but some things do go on another level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 I feel like this was a shot at me. Lol Regardless I don't knock anyone, I like the post & opinions but some things do go on another level. Not at all, I have not even noticed your posts to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Not at all, I have not even noticed your posts to be honest. HHe said you're irrelevant. You're gonna take that I kid I kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's amazing how there are about 10 or so people on this board who are convinced that they are God's gift to knowing football. They spew their opinions as undeniable facts and bash, ignore and brag, mock, everyone who does not agree with them. When proven wrong, or questioned they turn hostile, or go on the attack. Are all Jets boards like this? It's amazing how there are about 10 or so people on this board who are convinced that every irrational, illogical, self-important, reactionary piece of turd comment they post or thread they start should be consumed by everyone and have praise heaped upon it, despite the very real fact that every single one of us is dumber for having had to endure reading this babbling vagtastic nonsense for the past week as the volume of it has been amplified by blind, idiotic fits of rage and bewilderment. Also... how does one call out the entire message board for hostility, after establishing a consistent presence of overt attempts to incite personal arguments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I get that I am new here and don't know all the personalities, but there are many posters who are just flat out d!@ks, and that is unmistakeable. Im sure that will be the case anywhere, but there seem to be more of a percentage like that here. What is comical is how sure of themselves they are, and how right they all are and how they pat each other on the back for their intelligence and their Jet knowledge. Holy macaroni... this is a ground-breaking moment in the history of butthurt. LOL People being confident that their point of view in an argument is right = dicks. Calling an entire message board dicks for proving you wrong over and over = not a dick move. Am I piecing this together right? Do I need to read the whole thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I was posting by using the voice recognition feature, apparently it didn't work lol. Thanks Tom. The voice recognition reference is a good one. That software underachieved big time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Tom. The voice recognition reference is a good one. That software underachieved big time! Never gets old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Holy macaroni... this is a ground-breaking moment in the history of butthurt. LOL People being confident that their point of view in an argument is right = dicks. Calling an entire message board dicks for proving you wrong over and over = not a dick move. Am I piecing this together right? Do I need to read the whole thread? No no no, this was me coming after you again, remember the reach around you gave yourslef? the one where you claimed my sole purpose on the board was to troll you? LOL, talk about "butthurt". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's amazing how there are about 10 or so people on this board who are convinced that every irrational, illogical, self-important, reactionary piece of turd comment they post or thread they start should be consumed by everyone and have praise heaped upon it, despite the very real fact that every single one of us is dumber for having had to endure reading this babbling vagtastic nonsense for the past week as the volume of it has been amplified by blind, idiotic fits of rage and bewilderment. Also... how does one call out the entire message board for hostility, after establishing a consistent presence of overt attempts to incite personal arguments? is this English? Even in America this must be illegible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No no no, this was me coming after you again, remember the reach around you gave yourslef? the one where you claimed my sole purpose on the board was to troll you? LOL, talk about "butthurt". I don't remember. No idea what you are talking about... I guess it meant more to you, than to me. is this English? Even in America this must be illegible Everyone, but for about 10 people, should understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks Tom. The voice recognition reference is a good one. That software underachieved big time! Love that. Makes me laugh every time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 is this English? Even in America this must be illegible What we would say in the USA is "this must be incomprehensible". It could not be more legible, stronzo. Jules Winnfiield said it best: "English muthafukha! DO-YOU-SPEAK-IT?". Unless, of course, you were referring to Argentina, Mexico or other places in "America". Great education system up there, dumbski. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Not at all, I have not even noticed your posts to be honest. Oh I think that one was a shot at him then lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Paralysis is YOUR OPINION. That is the point here. Everyone has an opinion. So to answer your question...why is it okay for people to praise Idzik? Because we are fans. And it is okay to believe. That is why. No less a fan than you Max. We are fans, and it's OK to get upset. Especially after 45 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 I don't remember. No idea what you are talking about... I guess it meant more to you, than to me. Everyone, but for about 10 people, should understand it. LOL, yeah, you mean so much to me, clown. Keep on reaching around, you might find some chocolate soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No less a fan than you Max. We are fans, and it's OK to get upset. Especially after 45 years. Where did I say you were less of a fan for being negative? You asked why, I answered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 What we would say in the USA is "this must be incomprehensible". It could not be more legible, stronzo. Jules Winnfiield said it best: "English muthafukha! DO-YOU-SPEAK-IT?". I am not on ignore yet Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Where did I say you were less of a fan for being negative? You asked why, I answered it. We're all out to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Oh I think that one was a shot at him then lol. Honestly was not meant to be, I do not recognize his posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No less a fan than you Max. We are fans, and it's OK to get upset. Especially after 45 years. Getting upset is fine. And that is different from posting the same thing over and over in every thread. That is what happens here a lot, and it causes a lot of the frustration that people are expressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Honestly was not meant to be, I do not recognize his posts. No, I was just joking around with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 No less a fan than you Max. We are fans, and it's OK to get upset. Especially after 45 years. It's not about getting upset... I call BS on all those using "it's been 45 years, I've been a fan forever" as an excuse for their behavior. It's about coming into a community, stating your opinion, having the opinion be met with diverse reactions, insisting that your opinion is the only opinioin to have over and over and over and over and over and over... then crying that other people are being obnoxious dicks because they disagree (or are tired of the redundancy). In other words redundantly trolling, spamming and ruining every conversation before it even starts by blanketing the entire site with your opinions is just as obnoxious dick behavior, if not more so, as the arrogant posturing of those that disagree. At least the arrogant dicks aren't 1.) oblivious to their own obnoxiousness, and 2.) calling the whole site out as a bunch of dicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboozer Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Except that when you pay a landscaper to do a job, doing nothing is NEVER what you're paying him to do. Sometimes a GM's job is to NOT do things, unlike a landscaper who is never asked to stop and think of the long-term future instead of mowing the now foot-high lawn. A good GM should know when to make a move, when to make a move but only at a certain price, and when to go "all in" if enough pieces are there. People used to complain every single season, every single offseason, and especially after every loss, that we weren't building enough through the draft, then filling the few remaining holes in FA and spend big doing it. Well we still have more than a few holes (and a few more that aren't holes per se, but we sure could use upgrades). Building through the draft doesn't mean drafting a class and giving them 1 season to show something, and if they aren't good as rookies then ditch them and spend all-out in FA and never give those guys 2nd seasons. Well we got that now. And the complaints are even bigger than before. If we were in NE's position, with a great QB (even if he's not as great as he once was), and enough elsewhere to say they have a good chance of winning a SB this year if they had this or that player here or there. BB is a defensive guy who keeps getting knocked out of the playoffs because his defense is letting them down. Then he sees Seattle shut down the #1 offense ever, and accepts that he sucks ass at drafting CBs, and signs 2 ready-now corners. It's smart for him because of the situation NE is in. Those same moves are not smart for us because we aren't remotely in their situation. We don't have a sure thing with 1-3 years left. We have a 2nd year never-was who we hope takes 10 steps forward from his rookie season, since that's what will be required for him to just be average. Going all-in on Geno Smith is no smarter than Tannenbaum going all-in on Mark Sanchez. It is doing the exactly same thing. Exactly. And that's what people want? And that is what passes for "smart" GMing now? We're supposed to be happy when the team's GM doesn't pay top dollar or above-average dollar for below-average talent. We're supposed to be happy that the GM wants to build through the draft, and give those draft picks more than 1 rookie season to show they're as good as seasoned veterans. This was suppposed to be the answer to prayers that people have asked for for years. Now it's a source of misery. lol There is a fulcrum, or, tipping point that a GM must recognize. We were 8-8 last year... a very shaky 8-8. We have some choices. Surround some of our talent with some talented FA pcs. and solid draft picks and try to improve on that 8-8, or decide that a few "hold the fort" guys will do for this year, hope we have a great draft where several of our picks can be "plug and play" and see if we can improve that record. We could have done more.... we should have done more. That's all I'm saying. And I did it in 2,000 less words than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not about getting upset... I call BS on all those using "it's been 45 years, I've been a fan forever" as an excuse for their behavior. It's about coming into a community, stating your opinion, having the opinion be met with diverse reactions, insisting that your opinion is the only opinioin to have over and over and over and over and over and over... then crying that other people are being obnoxious dicks because they disagree (or are tired of the redundancy). In other words redundantly trolling, spamming and ruining every conversation before it even starts by blanketing the entire site with your opinions is just as obnoxious dick behavior, if not more so, as the arrogant posturing of those that disagree. At least the arrogant dicks aren't 1.) oblivious to their own obnoxiousness, and 2.) calling the whole site out as a bunch of dicks. I am so scared right now. Somehow you have become the voice of reason. I have no idea how this happened. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not about getting upset... I call BS on all those using "it's been 45 years, I've been a fan forever" as an excuse for their behavior. It's about coming into a community, stating your opinion, having the opinion be met with diverse reactions, insisting that your opinion is the only opinioin to have over and over and over and over and over and over... then crying that other people are being obnoxious dicks because they disagree (or are tired of the redundancy). In other words redundantly trolling, spamming and ruining every conversation before it even starts by blanketing the entire site with your opinions is just as obnoxious dick behavior, if not more so, as the arrogant posturing of those that disagree. At least the arrogant dicks aren't 1.) oblivious to their own obnoxiousness, and 2.) calling the whole site out as a bunch of dicks. Too long, did not read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 LOL, yeah, you mean so much to me, clown. Keep on reaching around, you might find some chocolate soon enough. Solid response. I'd wager that with this approach, you'll get a lot of understanding and sympathetic tractions on your "everyone on this site is dicks" appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 There is a fulcrum, or, tipping point that a GM must recognize. We were 8-8 last year... a very shaky 8-8. We have some choices. Surround some of our talent with some talented FA pcs. and solid draft picks and try to improve on that 8-8, or decide that a few "hold the fort" guys will do for this year, hope we have a great draft where several of our picks can be "plug and play" and see if we can improve that record. We could have done more.... we should have done more. That's all I'm saying. And I did it in 2,000 less words than you. The off season isn't over yet. But hey let's spend all of the money in the first few days of free agency. Big names always win. Go Daniel Synder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfanincanada Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Solid response. I'd wager that with this approach, you'll get a lot of understanding and sympathetic tractions on your "everyone on this site is dicks" appeal. Pink does not go good on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I am so scared right now. Somehow you have become the voice of reason. I have no idea how this happened. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I misrepresent myself here quite often for sport. I heard people wanted more Integrity28 and less Ape, so... ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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