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There is a fulcrum, or, tipping point that a GM must recognize. We were 8-8 last year... a very shaky 8-8. We have some choices. Surround some of our talent with some talented FA pcs. and solid draft picks and try to improve on that 8-8, or decide that a few "hold the fort" guys will do for this year, hope we have a great draft where several of our picks can be "plug and play" and see if we can improve that record.

 

We could have done more.... we should have done more. That's all I'm saying.

 

And I did it in 2,000 less words than you. :winking0001:

 

You keep saying that but you never give any detail. WHO would you have liked Idzik to sign while not putting the Jets in a poor position cap wise and still giving us the flexibility that we currently have in a ridiculously deep draft?

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Getting upset is fine.  And that is different from posting the same thing over and over in every thread.  That is what happens here a lot, and it causes a lot of the frustration that people are expressing.

If I only have 1 problem that's troubling me (Idzik's FA performance) should I only state it once and be done with it, when everyone else is posting hundreds of times about how great my #1 problem is doing, Itches have to be itched Max.

 

Check my posts before FA started Max. This has been a 1 week thing. Prior to this I had nothing but excitement for this upcoming season. That exuberance has been quenched.... sorry, I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

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If I only have 1 problem that's troubling me (Idzik's FA performance) should I only state it once and be done with it, when everyone else is posting hundreds of times about how great my #1 problem is doing, Itches have to be itched Max.

 

Check my posts before FA started Max. This has been a 1 week thing. Prior to this I had nothing but excitement for this upcoming season. That exuberance has been quenched.... sorry, I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

 

Check with some of the mods.  They can probably help with that itch.  Don't ask me how I know.  :)

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The off season isn't over yet.  But hey let's spend all of the money in the first few days of free agency.  Big names always win.  Go Daniel Synder.

The inmates are running the prison.....  I'll step back and leave you guys to your opinions.

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While you're very mean to me and thus I hate you, you're a beautiful person with a wonderful mind.

 

 

Nothing to do with your post, but while it is still on my mind, I blame you for the failure of the offense last season.  Remember the one and only year (two or three years ago) when the Chat Room was in full swing?  Your "here we go first down, here we go" chant was effin' money.  Whether this was the magic touch, or DLJ showing her boobs, we haven't had an edge since.  Get it together before the season starts.

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Fair enough. Hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion but I think it's a matter of volume. The # of posts that have been generated every day about how horrible things are has grown exponentially. The first few times, hey, whatever; Jets fans complaining is nothing that should draw attention. But it's nonstop. More and more and more and more and more. When the same people regurgitate the same opinion it gets on others' nerves. And to read the way it comes across, one can practically hear the - let's call them "critics" - screaming from their keyboards.

And for some, it's based on not spending money for the sake of spending it IMO. Like I should feel more comfortable about a so-so RT if he cost $6M/year instead of about half that. Or the barrage of complaints about not signing someone like Pettigrew to a $5M/year contract to make sure his prior team didn't one-up us.

Idzik has 1 year of GMing under his belt. Even if you like him so far, as I do, you still can't give him a full grade. I think things he's done that have been very good get brushed aside as though anyone would have done exactly the same thing and gotten exactly the same results (like getting a higher first round pick for Revis, with 1 suitor, when the guy needs a new $16M/year contract to keep him). I think this is a convenient stance to take, and some of the same complainers were pissed he didn't take a 2nd & something else the next season, as was TB's alleged top offer, when they thought Idzik had overplayed his hand. Also it's convenient to overlook, by the non-moves, all the bad moves that were not made. Non-moves are never compared to bad moves in hindsight; they're only compared to moves that would have been tremendous boons to the franchise for years. Talk about a convenient position to take.

I think those complaining - and hey, I complain plenty - are taking no less of a know-everything position than those who don't share the opinion. That if money is available, then it must be spent right away. My opinion is this is what got us into a hole that's taking us 3 years to climb out of (when you count the last year of Tannenbaum's tenure). Top players are worth top money. Mediocre ones are not. At the same time, a team that isn't a realistic contender right now has little business forking over $12M/year on a 1 year contract for a CB no matter how many years he once played for the Jets. I think you are very mistaken that Revis would have jumped on a deal as you described, but that's my opinion. That if he would have accepted that, then he wouldn't have required even a 1 year team option in NE to cost them some $25M. He wants to get back up to $16M asap, and is betting on himself on a 1 year deal in NE while 100% healthy the whole season. If he'd take $12-13M/year for an extended deal NE could have given him that. If that's truly what he wanted then he wouldn't have jumped at NE's 1 year deal before taking a few days to shop around as a FA. Last, I think it is an even bigger reach to believe that Idzik made that call - the call to not call - on his own. It's a non-move I agree with, and it isn't because I have any affinity for the non-self-made man that is Woody Johnson.

I think his draft last year was good with the obvious exceptions of his OL picks. But they were all just rookies, and one of them (Campbell) was known to be a project from day 1. Smith was a value pick at a position of obvious need. Mornhinweg thinks he'll turn out ok (or that's what he sold Eric Decker anyway), and it's tough to expect immediate results from him based on his prior experience, limited snaps with starters last summer, and then an injury that limited him in the final weeks of his first NFL summer. He'll either improve or he won't. But I can hardly argue with the value of the pick, particularly in a piss poor QB draft. The rest of the offseason was filling stop-gap players with his limited resources. Also a rebuilding team needs draft picks, and it seems he wanted to max out on compensatory picks, which means not signing true UFAs when cut players will do as well (e.g. Willie Colon).

This year we really had one MASSIVE need, and that was at receiver. I say only 1 massive need because it was a unit we needed multiple players for. For that, you have to do better than just drafting, since the odds of drafting and starting 2 rookie WRs is as close to zero as it is for Mark Sanchez to win the NFL MVP award this season (or ever). We have other areas of need, but they're a lot easier to find productive veterans for later IMO. Guard, a 3rd corner, a safety, a 3rd down back better than Powell, a TE...these positions I'd rather see what we can get in the draft from our mountain of picks, before we over-commit to huge dollars for a veteran who isn't a long-term solution anyway (like either corner NE signed) or frankly isn't good enough to justify the dollars it would have taken to get him (Howard, Pettigrew, and maybe DRC). I'm sure we're not done in free agency yet. I just think he had a plan to really use his loads of draft picks in a loaded draft to further build the team. What interrupts that is throwing huge dollars at players who aren't really that good, or who are temporary indulgences like Revis. So we signed the biggest name available at the biggest need position. We may yet sign another, but if we don't I really won't get into an uproar with such a deep WR draft coming up in a month.

But it's all just opinion. Some people who come here for a release, or for a break from busy lives, or just for entertainment. It's annoying to them to see thread after thread about a singular opinion (that we have so much cap room and have no patience to not spend it heavily right away). How could a person seriously get ANGRY about not signing Austin Howard for over $6M/yr, Brandon Pettigrew for over $4M/yr, or both? Really? That's who some want locked in as the Jets' starter for the next 3 seasons? The same complaint about not signing them will turn into a complaint for having signed & locked into them for so much, and it wouldn't take until mid-season. Wasn't long ago people were furious with our GM for not sealing the deal on Asomugha. I think we know how that one would have turned out for us.

Your last sentence sounds good, but it seems to only be a valid opinion - for critics - if one is critical. You can know he's terrible but you can't know that he isn't. It's tough to read this board the past few days and come away with thinking the angry folks feel anything but that. Maybe I'm just less critical because I don't see the Jets as true contenders until it's known that we have a true asset at the QB position. Until then, frankly, it's hard for me to get excited about who we supposedly lost out on.

And someday I'll learn to hit the "Post" button in between my thoughts. Someday.

Good.post. I hated Idziks moves last year and even this year. But the more I learn about the new CBA and how he likes accumulating picks, the more I like the way he is building this team. He has rebuilt the scouting department and it seema the Jets are at every pro day. I agree its early for a grade - but the approach makes sense. Edited by RSJ
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Getting upset is fine.  And that is different from posting the same thing over and over in every thread.  That is what happens here a lot, and it causes a lot of the frustration that people are expressing.

 

This, this, a million times this (and maybe that way it can start to catch up to those posts you're referencing).

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Oh, surely you must be kidding.  If that qualifies as TL;DR for you, this place really might not work out for you.  That's nothing for many of us around here (just see Sperm's posts in this thread).

 

 

That chicken $hit MF'er either ignores posts that nail his ass to the cross or gives empty, weak replies as you have quoted. What else is new?  One trick donkey.

Edited by Il Mostro
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I misrepresent myself here quite often for sport. I heard people wanted more Integrity28 and less Ape, so... ya know.

Chalk me down for less of both.

And if you refer to yourself in the third person for 2 handles does that make you double the doosh?

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Backpedalling skills are on par with his English skills -- maybe because Canada isn't part of "America" according to his reckoning.  

 

Wait, wait, does this mean I am on ignore yet? You did not make the big announcement, or are you even more of a little b*3ch than I thought? ignoring me then running around quoting others posts about me?

Edited by Jetfanincanada
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That chicken $hit MF'er either ignores posts that nail his ass to the cross or gives empty, weak replies as you have quoted. What else is new?  One trick donkey.

 

This is funny, and I mean funny, like I just spit my coffee on my computer funny. The notion that one post here can nail me, or anyone else to the cross speaks volumes about how you and your funky bunch take yourselves so seriously, at least until you ignore, what a clown. But thanks for the good laugh.

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There is a fulcrum, or, tipping point that a GM must recognize. We were 8-8 last year... a very shaky 8-8. We have some choices. Surround some of our talent with some talented FA pcs. and solid draft picks and try to improve on that 8-8, or decide that a few "hold the fort" guys will do for this year, hope we have a great draft where several of our picks can be "plug and play" and see if we can improve that record.

 

We could have done more.... we should have done more. That's all I'm saying.

 

And I did it in 2,000 less words than you. :winking0001:

 

We will do more, I'm sure. We just didn't shell out top dollar and commit to some you would have liked.

 

IMO the fulcrum swings into an ascending team when the team has its QB.  The Jets may or may not have it.  You don't move to all-in types of signings like Revis or $10M/year safeties to build an expensive team around Mark Sanchez again. That is a Tannenbaum strategy.  While the team would likely get further at some point doing so, there is no superbowl at the end of the rainbow.

 

Take Bart Scott as one example. He was signed to a 5 or 6 year deal. By year 3 he'd already fallen WAY short of where he was. In this case it didn't necessarily hurt the team but that's only because the same GM doubled-down on Sanchez. Say we'd signed or drafted a real QB, we'd still have been using a has-been like him 2 years ago and recovering from his dead money last year.  Now multiply that by a number of high-priced contracts for players who aren't what they were.

 

When we find a QB - and it may yet be Geno Smith - I'd want the team to be in a position to do something about it. Not say, aw shucks we can't because we already got an expensive TE or RT or whatever. The team will have to make do with this expensive liability because it won't fit signing another expensive one at the same position at the same time. 

 

Last year's 8-8 record is meaningless.  We had a crazy-awesome DL and a productive running game. Don't confuse that with a solid, overall offense and a solid overall defense. We are not close to being an 11-12 win team because we're already at 8 and that's the new basement level.  We were a 5-6 win team on paper. Ball bounces the right way, or we outcoach someone else, or we just play a better team that has a bad game, and that becomes 8 wins. But it doesn't change how lacking the team's roster is. We needed a couple of drafts to fill the multitude of needs we had in our starting lineup (and the depth as well). That isn't going to be fixed by another big name FA or two.  We are not in a "win it all in '14" situation.and no signing would make us that. The team is now what the team is now, not what last year's record was. Betting on last year's record is how a fool of a GM can be goaded into drafting a kicker in round 2 because that was our missing piece.

 

We have 12 draft picks. Personally, I'd like to see what players at what positions fall to us (or are within reach for us) before we've already committed to that position. 

 

2000 words less than me is nothing to brag about. That's like bragging about breathing.

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We will do more, I'm sure. We just didn't shell out top dollar and commit to some you would have liked.

 

IMO the fulcrum swings into an ascending team when the team has its QB.  The Jets may or may not have it.  You don't move to all-in types of signings like Revis or $10M/year safeties to build an expensive team around Mark Sanchez again. That is a Tannenbaum strategy.  While the team would likely get further at some point doing so, there is no superbowl at the end of the rainbow.

 

Take Bart Scott as one example. He was signed to a 5 or 6 year deal. By year 3 he'd already fallen WAY short of where he was. In this case it didn't necessarily hurt the team but that's only because the same GM doubled-down on Sanchez. Say we'd signed or drafted a real QB, we'd still have been using a has-been like him 2 years ago and recovering from his dead money last year.  Now multiply that by a number of high-priced contracts for players who aren't what they were.

 

When we find a QB - and it may yet be Geno Smith - I'd want the team to be in a position to do something about it. Not say, aw shucks we can't because we already got an expensive TE or RT or whatever. The team will have to make do with this expensive liability because it won't fit signing another expensive one at the same position at the same time. 

 

Last year's 8-8 record is meaningless.  We had a crazy-awesome DL and a productive running game. Don't confuse that with a solid, overall offense and a solid overall defense. We are not close to being an 11-12 win team because we're already at 8 and that's the new basement level.  We were a 5-6 win team on paper. Ball bounces the right way, or we outcoach someone else, or we just play a better team that has a bad game, and that becomes 8 wins. But it doesn't change how lacking the team's roster is. We needed a couple of drafts to fill the multitude of needs we had in our starting lineup (and the depth as well). That isn't going to be fixed by another big name FA or two.  We are not in a "win it all in '14" situation.and no signing would make us that. The team is now what the team is now, not what last year's record was. Betting on last year's record is how a fool of a GM can be goaded into drafting a kicker in round 2 because that was our missing piece.

 

We have 12 draft picks. Personally, I'd like to see what players at what positions fall to us (or are within reach for us) before we've already committed to that position. 

 

2000 words less than me is nothing to brag about. That's like bragging about breathing.

 

Congrats on being less than 2000 words, I would offer you a Labatt, but I don't want to offend you.

 

I don't disagree with you at all, but if Idzik feels this way, he better be drafting a QB pretty damn high this year IMO. You only get so long to put a good team on the field, and if his strategy is that he is not going to put a good team on the field until he can put it around a good QB, he better be doing everything in his power to get that guy. If he does not get that guy this year, either Geno or via the draft, he goes into year 3 without a good QB, and I don't think they will be drafting in the top 10 in 2015 so getting a top QB again will be tough, and year 1 of a QB is usually not overly successful. So does he go into year 4 with an unsettled QB position? Very dangerous.

 

Personally I don't think his strategy of not signing say Mevi$ has anything to do at all with the QB position, and more to do with Woody and Mevi$ himself. Mevi$ was one of the few guys that was young enough, and talented enough that a 4-5 year deal would still be providing value whenever it is that Idzik plans on really competing, which I hope like hell is within the next 2-3 years.

 

This team was one half away from the SB with Mark Sanchez, lets not lose site of that. I think Geno is much better, not that, that means anything at all, but if you built up a dominating D, and a dominating run offense, I think between his legs and what an easy offense it would be to run, Geno could make that work well enough to be a very good team. Of course we want more than that from our QB. 

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Congrats on being less than 2000 words, I would offer you a Labatt, but I don't want to offend you.

 

I don't disagree with you at all, but if Idzik feels this way, he better be drafting a QB pretty damn high this year IMO. You only get so long to put a good team on the field, and if his strategy is that he is not going to put a good team on the field until he can put it around a good QB, he better be doing everything in his power to get that guy. If he does not get that guy this year, either Geno or via the draft, he goes into year 3 without a good QB, and I don't think they will be drafting in the top 10 in 2015 so getting a top QB again will be tough, and year 1 of a QB is usually not overly successful. So does he go into year 4 with an unsettled QB position? Very dangerous.

 

Personally I don't think his strategy of not signing say Mevi$ has anything to do at all with the QB position, and more to do with Woody and Mevi$ himself. Mevi$ was one of the few guys that was young enough, and talented enough that a 4-5 year deal would still be providing value whenever it is that Idzik plans on really competing, which I hope like hell is within the next 2-3 years.

 

This team was one half away from the SB with Mark Sanchez, lets not lose site of that. I think Geno is much better, not that, that means anything at all, but if you built up a dominating D, and a dominating run offense, I think between his legs and what an easy offense it would be to run, Geno could make that work well enough to be a very good team. Of course we want more than that from our QB. 

Well put.

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Congrats on being less than 2000 words, I would offer you a Labatt, but I don't want to offend you.

 

I don't disagree with you at all, but if Idzik feels this way, he better be drafting a QB pretty damn high this year IMO. You only get so long to put a good team on the field, and if his strategy is that he is not going to put a good team on the field until he can put it around a good QB, he better be doing everything in his power to get that guy. If he does not get that guy this year, either Geno or via the draft, he goes into year 3 without a good QB, and I don't think they will be drafting in the top 10 in 2015 so getting a top QB again will be tough, and year 1 of a QB is usually not overly successful. So does he go into year 4 with an unsettled QB position? Very dangerous.

 

Personally I don't think his strategy of not signing say Mevi$ has anything to do at all with the QB position, and more to do with Woody and Mevi$ himself. Mevi$ was one of the few guys that was young enough, and talented enough that a 4-5 year deal would still be providing value whenever it is that Idzik plans on really competing, which I hope like hell is within the next 2-3 years.

 

This team was one half away from the SB with Mark Sanchez, lets not lose site of that. I think Geno is much better, not that, that means anything at all, but if you built up a dominating D, and a dominating run offense, I think between his legs and what an easy offense it would be to run, Geno could make that work well enough to be a very good team. Of course we want more than that from our QB. 

 

I don't have it in for Geno. I'm cautiously optimistic he could be good. But I wouldn't be going all-in on him because the way the ball bounced one year, our 5-6 win roster won 8 games.  It's been said many times that getting to 8-9 wins is easy from a bottom-3 team.  Getting to 12+ wins is hard even for a 9-10 win team.

 

We got lucky with Sanchez.  The first of those 2 years it took our final 2 opponents literally letting us win by benching their starters. A year later it took having Caldwell give us an extra time out, when we were desperate for one, at the end; otherwise we put up 14 points against a very mediocre defense because our supposedly-good playoff QB sucked horribly. I don't figure to get that lucky again, let alone twice, so building a team that way isn't something I'd bet on reaping the same dividends (that still ended up coming up short both times).

 

I'd like to see the team build through the draft. We have too many draft picks in too good of a draft to lock ourselves out of a prospect because we already filled that position in free agency.

And Revis is not a long-term solution IMO. The only way to get him into that is to threaten him with losing money, like Tannenbaum did with his poison pill term in the last deal. Don't figure Revis to sign with that type of clause again.  At those dollars, in the short term, he was a good move - theoretically - for a team who is a sure-thing SB contender in March.  That is not the 2014 Jets.

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Good.post. I hated Idziks moves last year and even this year. But the more I learn about the new CBA and how he likes accumulating picks, the more I like the way he is building this team. He has rebuilt the scouting department and it seema the Jets are at every pro day. I agree its early for a grade - but the approach makes sense.

 

I understand the frustration. Being patient is not easy, and it's much easier to be impatient.

 

Even those who (especially in hindsight) hated the Geno Smith pick say you keep drafting QBs until you find one. Well I think quite a lot of GMs in the Jets' position last year, with a pick both at #9 and #13, would have used at least their 2nd pick on Smith.  It took a lot of restraint to not pull the trigger, since a team can win a SB without a Sheldon Richardson but it can't without its QB. Even in round 2, not trading up took more restraint still. That same restraint is what is being witnessed in not making the Brandon Pettigrews of the league filthy rich by gobbling up the Jets' salary cap space.

 

Just saying (ok, I don't just say any one thing) this is the strategy everyone asked for. Now that they have it, the sky is falling down. The strategy of paying huge dollars on 2 corners was laughed at as being so very stupid when we did it a few years ago. Belichick copies the Mike Tannenbaum strategy and suddenly it's the smart - and obvious - way to go.

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I understand the frustration. Being patient is not easy, and it's much easier to be impatient.

 

Even those who (especially in hindsight) hated the Geno Smith pick say you keep drafting QBs until you find one. Well I think quite a lot of GMs in the Jets' position last year, with a pick both at #9 and #13, would have used at least their 2nd pick on Smith.  It took a lot of restraint to not pull the trigger, since a team can win a SB without a Sheldon Richardson but it can't without its QB. Even in round 2, not trading up took more restraint still. That same restraint is what is being witnessed in not making the Brandon Pettigrews of the league filthy rich by gobbling up the Jets' salary cap space.

 

Just saying (ok, I don't just say any one thing) this is the strategy everyone asked for. Now that they have it, the sky is falling down. The strategy of paying huge dollars on 2 corners was laughed at as being so very stupid when we did it a few years ago. Belichick copies the Mike Tannenbaum strategy and suddenly it's the smart - and obvious - way to go.

 

Yeah I agree, The recent moves by Belicheck scream of the window closing for them soon. I love his strategy now that I have seen his work for a while.

 

Draft well, don't overpay FA's. carry forward as much cap as you can. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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Yeah I agree, The recent moves by Belicheck scream of the window closing for them soon. I love his strategy now that I have seen his work for a while.

 

Draft well, don't overpay FA's. carry forward as much cap as you can. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

If he's wrong the team is in excellent shape for the next GM, with dozens of young draftees and gobs of cap space.  So Idzik's failure wouldn't take him and his successor 3 wasted NFL seasons to climb out of. With all that cap space, buying a half dozen free agents at the start of any future FA period would be easy peasy lemon squeazy.

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Wait, wait, does this mean I am on ignore yet? You did not make the big announcement, or are you even more of a little b*3ch than I thought? ignoring me then running around quoting others posts about me?

 

You do know that your posts are visible when someone else quotes them, even if you are on "ignore".  So, the system does have that flaw.  Moreover, I can turn you on and off like a light switch.  On, off. On, off. On, off.  Now, go get your shine box.

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If he's wrong the team is in excellent shape for the next GM, with dozens of young draftees and gobs of cap space.  So Idzik's failure wouldn't take him and his successor 3 wasted NFL seasons to climb out of. With all that cap space, buying a half dozen free agents at the start of any future FA period would be easy peasy lemon squeazy.

 

Is the assumption that we're not going to win games next year or compete for a playoff spot? Is this something I shouldn't expect but be pleasantly surprised if it happens?

 

The only thing that frustrates me is the hole at CB. Literally, the only thing, so I'm not in the sky is falling camp but I'm curious to know what the plan is at that position. I don't think it's unreasonable to be a little bit concerned.

Edited by Gastineau Lives
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