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John Idzik boxes himself into a cornerback


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A lot more now that we haven't signed anyone worth a dime but Decker. Bring in a few good players, the rest will want to join.

 

the jets have a lot of good players.  that's not the issue

 

the franchise has an image problem.  over paying won't help in the long run

 

they need to do well in the draft, with trades, UDFA, the mini draft, but most importantly, get rid of the circus image

 

which is why my least favorite idzik moves have been vick and goodson.

 

nobody wants to hear it, but year 2 is usually not the SB year.  the purge is over, the reload begins, but it's not a 1 off season deal

 

over paying this off season isn't the solution

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the jets have a lot of good players.  that's not the issue

 

the franchise has an image problem.  over paying won't help in the long run

 

they need to do well in the draft, with trades, UDFA, the mini draft, but most importantly, get rid of the circus image

 

which is why my least favorite idzik moves have been vick and goodson.

 

nobody wants to hear it, but year 2 is usually not the SB year.  the purge is over, the reload begins, but it's not a 1 off season deal

 

over paying this off season isn't the solution

 

I don't mind hearing it. I don't (and didn't) expect us to win the SB this year. It could happen, I guess anything could happen, but I wouldn't have counted on it no matter what we did.

 

But I think we should still be in a position to take a step up, and I don't think we are. It didn't just have to be my Revis plus Jackson scenario, there's a lot of ways it could have been done without being splashy.

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It's not that you can't improve with the draft. It's just that:

 

1. We have too many weaknesses on our roster right now, you would think Idzik would use *some* of his resources to fix that before the draft but he stubbornly refuses to do so.

 

2. Draft picks are like opinions, everyone has them. Other teams are improving in this way as well, so missing out on almost every FA you covet while sitting on a pile of cash isn't helpful.

 

3. Despite what t0mShane might tell you, it is unreasonable to expect the Jets (or any team, really) to consistently find instant starters in the 4th-5th round and beyond.

 

How anyone can follow football, especially the last handful of years with the jets, and not understand how important the draft and having multiple picks is, is beyond me.  You've seen first-hand what spending big money on free agents does, especially without having your QB spot nailed down.  Not only that, but you routinely ignore the words of every coach and GM to go on record stating how the beginning of free agency is fools gold and is not how you build a team and instead opt for beat writers and dudes from bleacher report because it fits your rationale. Seriously, if the Jets win more than 8 games next year, you should be forced to leave for the entire following off-season.

 

Alternative off-season: sign all the guys we signed, plus Revis for 12 and Jackson for 8. Leaves 10M to sign draft picks and carry over the rest. Makes us an instant contender. Doesn't hamper us long-term as Revis would come off the books in 2015.

 

No, not it doesn't. The only thing that makes this team a contender is if Geno takes a giant leap forward in his development, or we somehow get 2010 Vick. I don't understand what part of this you're having trouble grasping.  It makes zero sense to shoot your load in one off-season when you aren't positive of your QB situation. Should Geno prove himself this coming year, then I would imagine the long-term plan might speed up a bit.  Let's say you were in charge, signed all these free agents and then all our QB options busts, now we're on the hook with a plethora of high-price players who will collectively help us win a game or two at most, not solving our most dire problem. So until that happens, Idzik is going to continue to build a team like San Fran and Seattle did and hope that either Geno develops or we find our own Kaep/Wilson in the 2nd-3rd rounds.

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How anyone can follow football, especially the last handful of years with the jets, and not understand how important the draft and having multiple picks is, is beyond me.  You've seen first-hand what spending big money on free agents does, especially without having your QB spot nailed down.  Not only that, but you routinely ignore the words of every coach and GM to go on record stating how the beginning of free agency is fools gold and is not how you build a team and instead opt for beat writers and dudes from bleacher report because it fits your rationale. Seriously, if the Jets win more than 8 games next year, you should be forced to leave for the entire following off-season.

 

 

No, not it doesn't. The only thing that makes this team a contender is if Geno takes a giant leap forward in his development, or we somehow get 2010 Vick. I don't understand what part of this you're having trouble grasping.  It makes zero sense to shoot your load in one off-season when you aren't positive of your QB situation. Should Geno prove himself this coming year, then I would imagine the long-term plan might speed up a bit.  Let's say you were in charge, signed all these free agents and then all our QB options busts, now we're on the hook with a plethora of high-price players who will collectively help us win a game or two at most, not solving our most dire problem. So until that happens, Idzik is going to continue to build a team like San Fran and Seattle did and hope that either Geno develops or we find our own Kaep/Wilson in the 2nd-3rd rounds.

I absolutely agree.  If Idzik knew Geno was solid I could see him being somewhat more aggressive in FA but since we don't know, and only time will tell, he is being more patient. 

Edited by Drums
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It was 600 yards, not 800. And half the season was Tebow, the other half was Orton.

 

Either way, he put up 600+, 1000+, 1000+. People are thinking up A LOT of excuses for this. It wasn't him getting the 1,000 yard seasons, it was Manning. It wasn't him getting that 600/8 season, it was Tebow. I suppose if you're hellbent on finding reasons why a guy sucks, then you'll find 'em. We could go through the same types of excuses for most of the top receivers in the league.

 

And, by the way, has anyone bothered to come up with excuses for his production in college yet?

 

Wrong.

 

It's a lot closer to 4 games with Orton and 12 games with Tebow.  More like 3:1 Tebow than the half and half you're pretending it was.

 

With Orton I think he was on pace for 1000+ yards and 16 TDs.  Doubt the 16 TDs would have held up but still, it's pretty similar to his Manning #s.

 

I don't think he's an elite WR (nor did we pay him like one), and I have some concerns with his hands, but the ONLY quarterback his #s disappeared with was with Tebow.  That would hold true for anyone.

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Wrong.

 

It's a lot closer to 4 games with Orton and 12 games with Tebow.  More like 3:1 Tebow than the half and half you're pretending it was.

 

With Orton I think he was on pace for 1000+ yards and 16 TDs.  Doubt the 16 TDs would have held up but still, it's pretty similar to his Manning #s.

 

I don't think he's an elite WR (nor did we pay him like one), and I have some concerns with his hands, but the ONLY quarterback his #s disappeared with was with Tebow.  That would hold true for anyone.

 

OK, I didn't recall that it was a 4/12 split instead of an 8/8. But I don't know what you mean by "pretending" it was something, implying that I have some reason to lie about the time split. In fact, it's the other way around. I was defending Decker, so that serves my point even better---he put up those good numbers in a season where Tebow was his QB 75% of the time.

 

(Oh, I just figured it out, you might have thought I was trying to knock Decker because I said it was 600 yards, not 800. I wasn't, I was just correcting a previous post I made in which I stated it was 800.)

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My only point was there are two sides to an argument and neither needs to be insulted for their beliefs. Is that a good enough bumper sticker analogy for you? I simply take exception to those being labeled as tin-foiled hat wearers for not being happy with his lack of progress.

I wasn't touting the brilliance of my beliefs but nice try in dismissing my statement.

I like this guy

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Money? That won't stop the Pats.

Time? Time passed by for all the top talent in FA.

Picks? A good thing to address some needs but it won't be enough this year.

And this false notion about being patient is just that. False. Mythical.

Idzik has been anything but patient. He was linked to 9 CB prospects. He was seriously linked to at least one WR. He was heavily linked to a TE. He couldn't sign any of them. He did NOT take a wait-and-see approach. He simply low-balled them and couldn't negotiate a deal with any of them. And fans are trying to mask this with the word "patience". It's actually "failure" to sign. This has nothing to do with patience. You could say that if he were not contacting anyone, BUT HE HAS! BTW, add another RB to that list in MJD. And now he reportedly passed on one of the best WR's in the NFL who's price has plummeted amid a recent gang-related story and his preference to play with Vick - that's having an upper hand in negotiations. Oh, well. I guess he didn't envision Desean as being one of his guys.

But by all means, feel free to see his result with rose-colored glasses and bash those who are not satisfied as you stoically, proudly defend his short-comings by saying he has a plan. Okay. That's not the real story here. It's a myth.

I saw a Porsche in Rye last week. I stopped and looked at it. I did not buy a Porsche. I didn't "lose" a Porsche.

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Wrong.

It's a lot closer to 4 games with Orton and 12 games with Tebow. More like 3:1 Tebow than the half and half you're pretending it was.

With Orton I think he was on pace for 1000+ yards and 16 TDs. Doubt the 16 TDs would have held up but still, it's pretty similar to his Manning #s.

I don't think he's an elite WR (nor did we pay him like one), and I have some concerns with his hands, but the ONLY quarterback his #s disappeared with was with Tebow. That would hold true for anyone.

You can't really compare his time in Denver with what he's going to do here ! First it's a totally different offense we run a WCO which is short passes with a lot of YAC. Second in Denver with tebow he was the 2nd or 3rd options so he was covered accordingly . Here he is our #1 and get coverage that way . We don't know what he will do !

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8076968-590x900.jpg

Oklahoma State Cowboys cornerback Justin Gilbert (4) before the game against the Missouri Tigers in the 2014 Cotton Bowl at AT&T Stadium. Missouri won 41-31. Mandatory Credit: Kevin Jairaj-USA TODAY Sports

 

The New York Jets need some big-time cornerback help in the 2014 NFL Draft after making Antonio Cromartie a cap casualty and not re-signing anyone to replace him. It’s going to be interesting to see if the Jets address the CB position in the first round of the draft, because they still have a need for more pass-catching help around Geno Smith. Eric Decker was a huge, important signing, but the Jets could use a guy like Eric Ebron or Marqise Lee in the draft. I’d expect them to go for the best CB or WR/TE available in the first, and then they’ll address the other need in the second.

ESPN New York’s Rich Cimini reports that the Jets will host Oklahoma State Cowboys star cornerback Justin Gilbert on a pre-draft visit, and he’s generally regarded as the best CB in the draft class. I would be a tad surprised if he isn’t the first CB off the board, and he’s expected to go before the Jets are available. I actually have Jason Verrett ranked higher than Gilbert, but his size concerns and Gilbert’s elite speed will likely be the difference on draft day for teams.

If Gilbert falls to the Jets at pick No. 18, then there’s an excellent chance that they pull him off the board and make him their No. 1 corner. The Jets also have strong interest in Ohio State Buckeyes product Bradley Roby, and he would be a steal for them if he is available in the second round, should the Jets choose to go for a WR or TE at #18.

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You can't really compare his time in Denver with what he's going to do here ! First it's a totally different offense we run a WCO which is short passes with a lot of YAC. Second in Denver with tebow he was the 2nd or 3rd options so he was covered accordingly . Here he is our #1 and get coverage that way . We don't know what he will do !

Was also his 2nd NFL season & his first year starting. I take it for granted a healthy WR gets better, and doesn't generally reach his prime in his first 13 NFL starts. But he was probably the team's most targeted receiver that year.

I have made no predictions as to what he'll do here. None. So you're arguing against a claim you've fabricated yourself, exclamation point and all. All I'm pointing out is he didn't only have decent numbers with Manning. They were very similar with Orton. If you'd like to qualify why every game or reception he got in Denver was to someone else's credit, go ahead.

As much as Manning may have helped his stats, playing with Manning may have also helped him develop as a player.

I'm wait & see with Decker, but at this contract, and given our roster, I think he was a solid signing. Had it taken the $10M or so he was initially rumored to get as a FA, I'd have a different opinion.

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I saw a Porsche in Rye last week. I stopped and looked at it. I did not buy a Porsche. I didn't "lose" a Porsche.

 

Yeah, but regretfully, you may have lost your sense of comprehension.  I was speaking of the mythical bellowing of patience, not losing cars. 

Edited by JXD
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I'm not condemning Idzik already, but I'm becoming increasingly skeptical. And I wonder how many people firmly on Idzik's side right now will feel the same way if wide receivers end up shredding our secondary this season. How you do not pay Cro an extra 500k is baffling; opting to sign someone with even greater health concerns than Cro, for slightly less money, with less talent, and no experience in Rex's system just reeks of complete confusion about the cornerback market and doesn't show much regard for trying to get the roster to be better than last year. As of now, the Jets have a worse roster than they did a year ago on this date.

Edited by Jettington
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I'm not condemning Idzik already, but I'm becoming increasingly skeptical. And I wonder how many people firmly on Idzik's side right now will feel the same way if wide receivers end up shredding our secondary this season. How you do not pay Cro an extra 500k is baffling; opting to sign someone with even greater health concerns than Cro, for slightly less money, with less talent, and no experience in Rex's system just reeks of complete confusion about the cornerback market and doesn't show much regard for trying to get the roster to be better than last year. As of now, the Jets have a worse roster than they did a year ago on this date.

My guess is they flat-out didn't want Cro back. He was obviously there if we wanted him, and we were willing to pay in that price range for a CB whose best days are behind him.

 

I think they want to get younger at the position and from a team leadership perspective Cro is hard to bench.  Or maybe they don't think Cro's hip injury is one that will be better (or "better enough").  Or some other reason, personality-wise, that we didn't hear about.  

 

Then again it could just be personal with Idzik.  Could be - these are all "could be" guesses - Idzik offered re-signing him at $4M and Cro said that's an insult, so Idzik didn't offer to insult him further by matching Arizona's $3.5M.  Personal with Idzik in that when Idzik offered him $4M it was an insult but he took less than that from Arizona.  

 

Not suggesting any of these things happened, but there are a number of scenarios as to why we didn't bring Cromartie back.  The most likely is the one where they just don't think Cromartie will be good enough to justify $3.5M and a virtually guaranteed starting spot due to his leadership role with the team and Rex's player-loyalty garbage.  Look at what it took to get Scott off the field.  Did he even get a veteran minimum contract offer from a single NFL team? We didn't take him off the field with a promising 3rd round rookie badly in need of playing time.

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I'm not condemning Idzik already, but I'm becoming increasingly skeptical. And I wonder how many people firmly on Idzik's side right now will feel the same way if wide receivers end up shredding our secondary this season. How you do not pay Cro an extra 500k is baffling; opting to sign someone with even greater health concerns than Cro, for slightly less money, with less talent, and no experience in Rex's system just reeks of complete confusion about the cornerback market and doesn't show much regard for trying to get the roster to be better than last year. As of now, the Jets have a worse roster than they did a year ago on this date.

 

I am not firmly on Idzik's side, but I am firmly in the wait and see before we condemn his moves camps.

 

The difference in Cro's deal went far beyond $500K.  Patterson got a $1M bonus.  He has $1.5M in salary and the rest is game bonuses.  Meaning we save money each game he is inactive. Cromartie got a $1M bonus and $2.25M salary that is reportedly guaranteed.  The other $250K is bonus money.  The terms may be significant.

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Yeah, but regretfully, you may have lost your sense of comprehension.  I was speaking of the mythical bellowing of patience, not losing cars. 

 

Until you have a transcript of what Idzik offered those players, you're going completely on hearsay.  Linked to 9 CBs, but by whom? Mehta? They were linked to Verner, but reports later surfaced that they were never truly interested as he doesn't fit a press-man scheme. I think you're confusing Idzik doing his due-diligence, with failing to sign players. A handful of the other CBs we were "linked" to, was most likely just conversations. Thurmond and Munerlyn were guys who would be essentially competing with someone already on our roster for the nickel/slot role, so not signing them is not the same as losing out on them. Browner was suspended for the first four games of this season, hard to find fault in not throwing money at him. 

 

Outside of Davis, I can't think of a single CB that Idzik supposedly lost out on. 

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I saw a Porsche in Rye last week. I stopped and looked at it. I did not buy a Porsche. I didn't "lose" a Porsche.

 

I was eyeing a sweet pastry in the cafeteria the other day, as I do most days. Stopped, admired it, enjoyed the aroma. Didn't get it. Cutting carbs, doesn't fit my diet. Someone else bought it. Word on the street is that I lost out yet again, after being linked to no less than a dozen pastries this week. Rumor is I can't close.

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Until you have a transcript of what Idzik offered those players, you're going completely on hearsay.  Linked to 9 CBs, but by whom? Mehta? They were linked to Verner, but reports later surfaced that they were never truly interested as he doesn't fit a press-man scheme. I think you're confusing Idzik doing his due-diligence, with failing to sign players. A handful of the other CBs we were "linked" to, was most likely just conversations. Thurmond and Munerlyn were guys who would be essentially competing with someone already on our roster for the nickel/slot role, so not signing them is not the same as losing out on them. Browner was suspended for the first four games of this season, hard to find fault in not throwing money at him. 

 

Outside of Davis, I can't think of a single CB that Idzik supposedly lost out on. 

 

I'm pretty sure that Munnerlyn was either in own or scheduled to visit.  DRC was here too, but the level of intereste/contract is up for debate.

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I'm pretty sure that Munnerlyn was either in own or scheduled to visit. DRC was here too, but the level of intereste/contract is up for debate.

That's true. If DRC was really only offered the one year six million deal, I have a hard time saying Idzik lost out on him when it seems his offer wasn't serious compared to others. I guess it's semantics, but I could only imagine losing out on someone if you drag your feet and someone else grabs him or something along those lines.

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I saw a Porsche in Rye last week. I stopped and looked at it. I did not buy a Porsche. I didn't "lose" a Porsche.

 

  Yeah but if you wound up buying a used Chevy Malibu and it's one of the cars recalled,   you pretty much were screwed.

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  Yeah but if you wound up buying a used Chevy Malibu and it's one of the cars recalled,   you pretty much were screwed.

 

He wouldn't consider himself screwed if he used the saved Porsche money towards buying a house or something else of more importance/value.  

 

Plus weren't there some Porsches recalled literally like a week or two ago because the engines could spontaneously combust or something like that? 

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Until you have a transcript of what Idzik offered those players, you're going completely on hearsay.  Linked to 9 CBs, but by whom? Mehta? They were linked to Verner, but reports later surfaced that they were never truly interested as he doesn't fit a press-man scheme. I think you're confusing Idzik doing his due-diligence, with failing to sign players. A handful of the other CBs we were "linked" to, was most likely just conversations. Thurmond and Munerlyn were guys who would be essentially competing with someone already on our roster for the nickel/slot role, so not signing them is not the same as losing out on them. Browner was suspended for the first four games of this season, hard to find fault in not throwing money at him. 

 

Outside of Davis, I can't think of a single CB that Idzik supposedly lost out on.

 

 

 

I just deleted everything I said because it was too sharp and repetitious as I've already made my points on this topic.  And I agree with you that Mehta doesn't count as a source. 

 

You just go on believing that Idzik was merely inquiring with all those prospects and have a rosy-glass filled life.  Ignorance is bliss.

Edited by JXD
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I just deleted everything I said because it was too sharp and repetitious as I've already made my points on this topic.  And I agree with you that Mehta doesn't count as a source. 

 

You just go on believing that Idzik was merely inquiring with all those prospects and have a rosy-glass filled life.  Ignorance is bliss.

 

I can't imagine how exhausting life must be when you're constantly so pessimistic. 

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I can't imagine how exhausting life must be when you're constantly so pessimistic. 

 

I see who you are.  Yeah, I guess you have to label fans like myself who don't agree with you.  That's real optimistic.  How about worrying about yourself - I'll enjoy my life the way I choose.  If that's okay?  Probably not.  Here in this country where one has the liberty to speak one's opinion without fear of retribution.  Okay.  That's why I spent two years in Afghanistan.  Good to know.

Edited by JXD
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  How you do not pay Cro an extra 500k is baffling; 

 

cro stunk last year. Absolutely stunk. LIterally anyone would be better. Im not a huge dimitri patterson fan but if he can run without looking like he dropped a load in his pants he's an upgrade over Cro. 

 

by the way, as for this thread title... the Jets have at CB right now: Milliner, Wilson, Walls from last year. Patterson, Ras_I dowling, Johnny Patrick, the Iowa State vertical jumper, it's not like they have NO ONE at the position. they have alot of long shots and if one pays off they will be fine. The Decker signing (and Ford to some extent) offer similar depth to the WR position (and it's not done, wouldn't be surprised to see Miles Austin brought in at some point). 

 

They don't have to get a CB in rd 1. Or WR.  they could go true BAP which is kinda Idzik's style anyway. 

Edited by bitonti
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I see who you are.  Yeah, I guess you have to label fans like myself who don't agree with you.  That's real optimistic.  How about worrying about yourself - I'll enjoy my life the way I choose.  If that's okay?  Probably not.  Here in this country where one has the liberty to speak one's opinion without fear of retribution.  Okay.  That's why I spent two years in Afghanistan.  Good to know.

 

You do realize this was all started by you telling those who didn't agree with you to "take off their rosy-colored glasses" and that they clearly must be ignorant.  I have zero problem with people who disagree with me, nor do I feel the desire to change someone else's mind. I think it would stand to reason you shouldn't label everyone who disagrees with you as ignorant or blind. 

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