Bleedin Green Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Here's another one for you to Google: Teams that consistently stayed 30 million dollars under the salary cap and consistently won. It might also be a good idea to take a crack at googling the definition for "consistently", as I'm pretty sure it's not "something that happened for one week that one time". Although if it is, then it's exciting to know that apparently the Jets "consistently" won 8 times last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 So, when he is forced to spend, he'll never overspend, right? All of his contracts are going to be dead on the money. He'll never want a player that another team wants and is forced to pony up more than he's comfortable with, is that it? I can't even... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Details. You forget the following: Seattle got lucky with their draft picks. A lot. They have a coach that could coach a womens softball team (forget that he once coached here, and sucked) Russell Wilson is gritty, Geno Smith is *****y We had our Sherman, and our idiot GM/owner traded him away. Seattle has like....a bajillion CB's. We have Ras I-Dowling. Seattle spent their FA money over the years (on Zach Miller, who wasn't an all-pro...but that was just unlucky). Seattle has the 12th man. Our fans don't care because ownership is so bad. Eric Decker had Peyton Manning throwing to him, he is teh suck. We let all time greats like Austin Howard and Jerricho Cotchery walk away. 40+ years dude. You haven't even been alive long enough to understand the pain. Srs. Did I forget anything? I'm sure I did. U mean the owner that spends every last dime of his allotted salary cap towards the team? Yeah, sure. A lot of ungrateful fans here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It might also be a good idea to take a crack at googling the definition for "consistently", as I'm pretty sure it's not "something that happened for one week that one time". Although if it is, then it's exciting to know that apparently the Jets "consistently" won 8 times last year. Well, I've heard the term "long term success" and others like it being thrown around quite alot. I guess consistently doesn't qualify as one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I can't even... Of course you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVM Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I really wish I had made that post my sig. Don't even remember who said it now, but it was my best JN-induced laugh in a while. It might also be a good idea to take a crack at googling the definition for "consistently", as I'm pretty sure it's not "something that happened for one week that one time". Although if it is, then it's exciting to know that apparently the Jets "consistently" won 8 times last year. <3 you Super Twat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I posted this in another thread. However, because I'm awesome, I decided to make it into a thread on its own. Every successful team can pick out a few key signings. Which is why Decker and Giacommini are nothing to spit at. Those are good signings. So was the trade for Chris Ivory. But you don't just say "We have needs/wants at 8 positions. We'll fill those with 6 or 7 free agents and call it a day" like the Browns or Raiders are doing. They're trying to win with other people's players because they failed so miserably at drafting their own talent. Look at the Seahawks starters and you tell me if it looks like the type of roster Idzik is looking to build: [NOTE: For our purposes, I am assuming Sidney Rice is headed elsewhere. If he doesn't, he takes Lockette's spot on the depth chart] QB: Russell Wilson (3rd round pick) RB: Marshawn Lynch (trade: 2011 4th round pick, 2012 conditional pick) WR: Doug Baldwin (UDFA) WR: Percy Harvin (trade: 1st and 7th rounder) WR: Ricardo Lockette (UDFA) TE: Zach Miller (Signed 2011 to 5-year deal) LT: Russell Okung (Top 10 pick) LG: James Carpenter (1st rounder) C: Max Unger (2nd rounder) RG: JR Sweezy (7th rounder) RT: Michael Bowie (7th rounder) LDE: Michael Bennett (UDFA) DT: Brandon Mebane (3rd rounder) DT: Tony McDaniel (UDFA, bounced between Jaguars and Dolphins, signed in 2013) RDE: Cliff Avrill (Signed as RFA in 2011) OLB: Malcolm Smith (7th rounder) MLB: Bobby Wagner (2nd rounder) OLB: Bruce Irvin (1st rounder) CB: Richard Sherman (5th rounder) CB: Byron Maxwell (6th rounder) FS: Earl Thomas (1st rounder) SS: Kam Chancellor (5th rounder) Of all Seattle's starters on offense, only 1, Zach Miller, was a free agent signing. Much like the Jets traded a 4th rounder for Chris Ivory, the Seahawks did the same to get Marshawn Lynch. Harvin was a pickup via trade as well, but his health has prevented him from making any impact on a team that won the Super Bowl largely without him. Of their starters on defense, only one, Cliff Avrill, was a significant free agent signing. McDaniel was a scrap-heap pickup that worked out. The rest they found via the draft. The Seahawks entire back 7 was found via the draft. Their entire offensive line was drafted. That's impressive stuff. You cannot even come close to arguing that this Seattle roster depended on free agents. They depend on the draft. Period. If the Seahawks are the model we're looking to duplicate, Idzik is right on target so far. He's accumulating talent via the draft, filling a few needs where he can via free agency. And he's also, when the timing is right, making trades with those draft picks. I imagine that he might make a deal or 2 with some of our 12 draft picks when the 2014 draft rolls around, too. This is how you build a winner. Details. You forget the following: Seattle got lucky with their draft picks. A lot. They have a coach that could coach a womens softball team (forget that he once coached here, and sucked) Russell Wilson is gritty, Geno Smith is *****y We had our Sherman, and our idiot GM/owner traded him away. Seattle has like....a bajillion CB's. We have Ras I-Dowling. Seattle spent their FA money over the years (on Zach Miller, who wasn't an all-pro...but that was just unlucky). Seattle has the 12th man. Our fans don't care because ownership is so bad. Eric Decker had Peyton Manning throwing to him, he is teh suck. We let all time greats like Austin Howard and Jerricho Cotchery walk away. 40+ years dude. You haven't even been alive long enough to understand the pain. Srs. Did I forget anything? I'm sure I did. I love you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 most moves made last 2 years.. and trades via FA cap salary,, they waited to spend until they were ready for a SB run look at roster for gods sake and look at signing dates Well, as soon as we get a Pro Bowl calibre QB, an all world CB and our number one receiver making 600k each in a year where we are one of the three highest cap number teams, we will be ready. I can't wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 You mean patiently traded for Matt Flynn and patiently signed him for 6mil and patiently traded for Percy Harvin and patiently traded for Marshawn Lynch and patiently banged on a third round 5'11 QB to patiently erase his first patient move and patiently traded for Sidney Rice and patiently signed Cliff Avril and patiently signed Zach Miller who had a very patient looking 11 million dollar cap room last year? All in the first two years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well, as soon as we get a Pro Bowl calibre QB, an all world CB and our number one receiver making 600k each in a year where we are one of the three highest cap number teams, we will be ready. I can't wait. ya, it will be great!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Here's another one for you to Google: Teams that consistently stayed 30 million dollars under the salary cap and consistently won. There you go. Try that one. Consistently? The Jets have been $30m under the cap for approximately one week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Consistently? The Jets have been $30m under the cap for approximately one week. I'm sorry, Dom. I guess it wasn't clear. I was responding to a post stating that you build championships through the draft and free agency is for fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 whether they sign FA or not, this only works if they have the QB. Agreed, but Wilson was one of the final pieces to the puzzle for Seattle. Not having the QB right now does not diminish the validity of the plan and process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Agreed, but Wilson was one of the final pieces to the puzzle for Seattle. Not having the QB right now does not diminish the validity of the plan and process. See, this is where I can be helped. What, exactly, is the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 See, this is where I can be helped. What exactly, is the plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Good for the Seahawks, too bad we're fans of the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It would still be 3 out of 19, so I'd be inclined to disagree that the conversation totally changes. What doesn't change is the point about the QB, but we all already knew that. Something the teams that have brought in the big time FA's all had were consensus top 5 (you could probably even argue top 3) QB's. Favre Brees Peyton** If they were to win But the "Is Geno/Sanchez/Clemens/Pennington/etc good enough to win us a Super Bowl" argument is entirely separate from the "why aren't we signing players?!" argument. I do not think Denver makes it to the SB this year. Their D is bogus and teams are going to attack Peyton like Seattle did. So to me they will be worse in both departments. He had no comp this year in the AFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I just deleted half this thread. If you guys want to fight, do it somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The big difference here is that the Seahawks were aggressive at the QB position. They traded for Whitehurst and signed Matt Flynn -both fairly expensively- before (let's face it) getting lucky in the third round with Russell Wilson. So far here, Idzik has signed David Garrard and drafted Geno Smith. Does he believe in Geno? Or are they going to take a QB on the high side again this year? He doesn't seem all that interested in the FA market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I just deleted half this thread. If you guys want to fight, do it somewhere else. Well, when you post something in earnest and someone calls you an idiot, it requires a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The big difference here is that the Seahawks were aggressive at the QB position. They traded for Whitehurst and signed Matt Flynn -both fairly expensively- before (let's face it) getting lucky in the third round with Russell Wilson. So far here, Idzik has signed David Garrard and drafted Geno Smith. Does he believe in Geno? Or are they going to take a QB on the high side again this year? He doesn't seem all that interested in the FA market. Which franchise QB was available last year in FA or draft? David Garrard did jack squat last year, but who was a real qb last year that we missed ou on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Also, if we make the playoffs next year and Geno either shows he is or isn't the guy here, what incentive does Idzik have to not go for it by spending money on a top tier FA to put us over the top? If we never spend the money does idzik benefit personally somehow? Why wouldn't he go aggressively at a FA then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 all teams are built by giving other teams players contracts worth over 50 million dollars everybody knows that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Which franchise QB was available last year in FA or draft? David Garrard did jack squat last year, but who was a real qb last year that we missed ou on? There were QBs available last year who hadn't sat out the previous two seasons. Whitehurst and Flynn didn't prove to be franchise QBs, either, but that didn't stop Seattle from trying every QB they could find. What do you think Idzik's plan is at the most critical position on the field? Do you think he goes back to the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The big difference here is that the Seahawks were aggressive at the QB position. They traded for Whitehurst and signed Matt Flynn -both fairly expensively- before (let's face it) getting lucky in the third round with Russell Wilson. So far here, Idzik has signed David Garrard and drafted Geno Smith. Does he believe in Geno? Or are they going to take a QB on the high side again this year? He doesn't seem all that interested in the FA market. They were linked pretty heavily to McCown and <shudder> Vick. The scary thing is that Vick is still out there and there is as good a chance as any that he ends up here when the music stops. Especially if the Raiders are waiting on Sanchez or Schaub. I'd rather go in on Schaub than Vick, but that is just the fan in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 whether they sign FA or not, this only works if they have the QB. Russell Wilson's play was about league average at best from Week 15 until the Super Bowl, when he finally got his act together. Fortunately, Seattle's roster was so loaded it didn't matter. Wilson is one of the NFL's best game managers, but he didn't play like a superstar. They didn't need him to. We can find another Russell Wilson. After all, Terry Bradway was screaming for us to draft the kid before Idzik even got here. Who knows, Geno might even be that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 I love how, every season, the way to "build a winner" changes based on who won the Superbowl. Denver plays up to the level that they are capable of in the Superbowl, and we're looking at a very different discussion. But the Broncos had a bad game, therefore, Seattle knows the only way to build a roster. By the way, when was John Idzik the GM of the Seahawks? I couldn't find that in his resume. Certainly HOW teams use their draft picks varies, and there are instances where teams had more of an offensive or defensive focus and it worked. The over-arching point is that no team gets to the Super Bowl by depending on free agency to make up for their weaknesses in drafting. Every Super Bowl champion has been built by teams that were superior in bringing in talent via the draft than other teams. There is no argument to be made against this. You can cherry-pick a few key free agent acquisitions for sure. Maybe one big free agent was all that was needed to add to the stockpile of talent already assembled. But we aren't a team that is "one player away". We're about 10 players away. And if your plan is to sign pricey free agents rather than complement your roster with young, cheap, talented rookies, you have the wrong approach. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 I don't think the QB issue is completely separate. Do you think having a sh*tty QB like Ge(oh)no is going to attract offensive talent? Would defensive players want to come to a team with the prospects of a 8-8 season looming because the Jets can't score? I think they are linked to a degree. Sure money is the great equalizer but some players do want to win and get paid. This is a point that hasn't really been discussed enough. The Jets were considered a joke 2 years ago. They have a crappy QB situation. In what universe are people trying to play for us for a dime less than they can get from a contender? It's pretty impressive we got Decker. The Colts had a lot of cap room. Why didn't he go there and be Andrew Luck's favorite target for the next 10 years? Vontae Davis, our other major target, elected to remain in Indy. Just how much money were we supposed to throw at HIM to make him change his mind? Most of the major free agents either got significantly overpaid by the likes of the Raiders and Browns OR signed for about market value with a winning team like the Broncos. Yet we were supposed to get all the top free agents on the market? People need to get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 I do not think Denver makes it to the SB this year. Their D is bogus and teams are going to attack Peyton like Seattle did. So to me they will be worse in both departments. He had no comp this year in the AFC. Yep. And after the dust settles and Peyton retires, the Broncos will be pretty well f***ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I just deleted half this thread. If you guys want to fight, do it somewhere else. Oh thank God. I thought I did it by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 The big difference here is that the Seahawks were aggressive at the QB position. They traded for Whitehurst and signed Matt Flynn -both fairly expensively- before (let's face it) getting lucky in the third round with Russell Wilson. So far here, Idzik has signed David Garrard and drafted Geno Smith. Does he believe in Geno? Or are they going to take a QB on the high side again this year? He doesn't seem all that interested in the FA market. I'd say drafting Geno was a pretty aggressive move. Everyone here was screaming for a WR at that spot. I imagine Idzik will draft another QB in this draft. And while he hasn't been interested in the crappy QB's that were previously on the market (except Vick), he might try to acquire Matt Schaub if he gets cut. There are options available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 There were QBs available last year who hadn't sat out the previous two seasons. Whitehurst and Flynn didn't prove to be franchise QBs, either, but that didn't stop Seattle from trying every QB they could find. What do you think Idzik's plan is at the most critical position on the field? Do you think he goes back to the draft? His initial plan was Geno. Don't see anything wrong with that. Until proven otherwise I bet he continues to bring in QB's until we find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 There were QBs available last year who hadn't sat out the previous two seasons. Whitehurst and Flynn didn't prove to be franchise QBs, either, but that didn't stop Seattle from trying every QB they could find. What do you think Idzik's plan is at the most critical position on the field? Do you think he goes back to the draft? I don't care, nor should you, if there were qbs who were available last year that played within the last two seasons but aren't franchise qb. They still would have done jack sh*t for our franchise so what does it matter. Unless you think they would've made us SB contenders. Like j80 said their attempt was drafting Geno, who was a value pick. Would you have preferred that they went for manuel or another qb available? This year, i personally don't know enough about the qbs available to know if there is one we can feasibly get in the draft that is that caliber. If they like one to think it is a franchise qb, i am all for them aggressively trading picks to make sure they get him. Barring that, I think it is more likely they go with geno again to see if he makes progress. Depends on their personal opinion on geno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Russell Wilson's play was about league average at best from Week 15 until the Super Bowl, when he finally got his act together. Fortunately, Seattle's roster was so loaded it didn't matter. Wilson is one of the NFL's best game managers, but he didn't play like a superstar. They didn't need him to. We can find another Russell Wilson. After all, Terry Bradway was screaming for us to draft the kid before Idzik even got here. Who knows, Geno might even be that guy. oy.. but for the season he was #8 I think. I wonder if having home field throughout the playoffs helped get them to the SB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Well, when you post something in earnest and someone calls you an idiot, it requires a response. I honestly thought your post was tongue-in-cheek, hence the rolling laughter emotive. I was not calling you an idiot and am sorry for offending you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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