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Are you really boycotting the team because of Vick?


Maxman

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Fair enough on your last point, which I respect. But you can't expect everyone to feel that way.

 

My analogy was in no way about equating 2 very different crimes, but rather to say that just because "society" has deemed that a particular punishment is adequate, that doesn't mean every individual must therefore also agree that the punishment is adequate.  If that was the case, then no laws would ever get changed.  For example, the law that the judge had to sentence him under (as I understand it) does not make a distinction between killing a dog by shooting it in the head just out of anger (which is bad enough), and killing a dog by torturing it to death, making the pain last & drawing it out for his personal enjoyment & amusement.  Also whether it was 3 dogs or 13 dogs it may very well be that the sentence would have been the same, though clearly the crime is not the same either.  On paper he's getting punished for the first 3 and there is no punishment for the next 10, which are effectively "freebies." Last, it is unrealistic to believe that he was charged or sentenced for all of his crimes; just the ones they had concrete evidence of.  

 

From his arrest, through his trial, up to the point of sentencing, the judge felt it was apparent enough that he was lying about his involvement, as the judge noted in his summation, as well as Vick giving an impression of a lack of remorse (beyond being remorseful about getting caught, presumably).  After prison, while petitioning the league to let him back in, he then suddenly had a public change of heart.  He was so very sorry and even attached his name to some causes, as was likely "recommended" to him by many, from his agent to the commissioner.  Before long, he was able to come back into the league while still in his playing prime, and live a lavish lifestyle due to the popularity of the sport that pays its players so well.  There are other professions where he'd have been banned for life, so in this sense Vick was treated more leniently than someone else would have been for committing the same crime in the same situation.  

 

There is only one circumstance where I would feel less strongly about it, and that is if it was one instance while he was so wasted out of his mind that he barely knew what he was doing, and nothing close to that ever occurred in his life while sober.  Wouldn't make it excusable, but it would change things.  Like vehicular manslaughter where 1 person purposely ran down and killed a pedestrian and someone else accidentally did the same due to being drunk.  The drunk still should serve time because of a decision that ended another's life, but that decision to drive wasted was not specifically made with the intent of killing some random person.  It's why there are different levels of murder charges.

 

Clearly we don't agree on this, which is fine.  

 

 

 

a) see above

b) everyone gets to his point more quickly than I do.  (again, see above hahaha)

 

I definitely don't expect everyone to feel the way I do.  And just to clarify, I think he is a total POS.  But the league is filled with low character guys.  It makes none of it right.  Which is why I always told my kids, these guys aren't role models.

 

And the more I read back, the more I agree that he really seemed to fess up and apologize only after he had no other choice.

 

Hopefully Geno beats him out and makes this as little of an issue as possible.

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The only way Eugene sees the field is if Vick gets injured.  Given his propensity to get injured gives me reason to be worried.  But still, this is a move in the right direction that had to be made.  

Regardless, Vick is a lot more durable than he is given credit for.  He's played in 12 or more games in 11 seasons.  And he was exiled for two years 07-08 seasons so he's not totally worn down.  And though he is soon to be 34, he still is faster, quicker and more elusive than half the qb's in this league...easily.  Newton, Wilson, Kapernick, Pryor, Griffin, are the only ones with better legs compared to Vick. Hopefully, Idzik plans for the future and doesn't rely on just Eugene.  Vick is a short term solution. No doubt.  Idzik needs to draft a qb this coming draft.    

 

Well, we don't have the same opinion on that.  Morhinweg likes Geno from what I am told.  So I fully expect Geno to be the starter.  So much of what Vick said in his presser really made it seem like he expected the same thing.

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Knowing I'll only go to a few games this season I was still looking at buying season tix and selling the ones I don't use.  I've wanted season tix since I was a kid, just never lived close enough to justify it.

 

With Vick on board, I'll pass on the season tix and use one of those last minute sites.  I've heard good things about scorebig.com.  I also have a buddy who can get comped tickets once or twice a year through his job, so maybe even a couple games at no cost.  So, I'll basically continue to cheer and be a fan of the players not named Vick, but I'm not going to be so willing to give Woody Johnson any cash.  Some will walk away from their season tix and not go at all, others will stop buying merch, others will support Vick and wonder why in the world a person would care about somebody torturing  a dog. 

 

Good points.

 

And I am glad you will still be going to some games!  It is a lot of fun.  Like I said before, hopefully Vick is on the bench and Geno is the real deal.  This way everyone can be happy!

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I would not say I am boycotting the team because of Vick. You will not see me outside of the stadium dressed as a pitbull carrying anti-Vick signs. Vick is just the icing on the cake in the disinterest I have felt for this team the last two seasons. Has anyone noticed this team has been headed in the wrong direction? Come on. Gholston, Sanchez, Wilson??? Signing Tim Tebow? Ed Reed? Releasing Revis to save money for the rest of this incredible talent? This team is the joke of the NFL. Idzik deserves a chance to turn it around. But Milliner? Geno? Not off to a great start.

 

But someone made a good point. What if Vick starts and plays lights out? Leads the Jets to a 4-1 start. Would I be tempted to swallow my pride and jump back on the bandwagon? It's easy to say no now, in the moment of anger and disgust. On the other hand, if I did, and then the Dog Whisperer gets injured in the sixth game, won't I look silly? The latter is as probable an assumption as the former. Probably more.

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Knowing I'll only go to a few games this season I was still looking at buying season tix and selling the ones I don't use.  I've wanted season tix since I was a kid, just never lived close enough to justify it.

 

With Vick on board, I'll pass on the season tix and use one of those last minute sites.  I've heard good things about scorebig.com.  I also have a buddy who can get comped tickets once or twice a year through his job, so maybe even a couple games at no cost.  So, I'll basically continue to cheer and be a fan of the players not named Vick, but I'm not going to be so willing to give Woody Johnson any cash.  Some will walk away from their season tix and not go at all, others will stop buying merch, others will support Vick and wonder why in the world a person would care about somebody torturing  a dog. 

I knew a guy who was a severe alcoholic.  So much so, he used to drink his own urine when he ran out of money to get high.  Anyways, this guy used to torture cats. He'd kill them, torture them and abuse them. Wont go into the gruesome details, pretty sick stuff.  So he gets sober and becomes one of the most loving people I have ever met on this planet.  He devoted much of his free time to animal shelters to take care of cats. He would house sit for friends and clean the litter and feed their cats.  People trusted this guy despite knowing his past. Point is, the guy realized he acted really badly and found a way to make amends and found peace with himself over the horrible things he did to these poor innocent animals.  This guy was extremely loved in his circles.  He changed.  Unfortunately, his body broke down from his  addiction and he died sober and at peace with himself.  And cats were present at his funeral.

 

So any support given to Vick has to be earned by him.  The question is what has Vick done to change and is he truly sorry.  Only through his actions can that really come to pass.        

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I knew a guy who was a severe alcoholic.  So much so, he used to drink his own urine when he ran out of money to get high.  Anyways, this guy used to torture cats. He'd kill them, torture them and abuse them. Wont go into the gruesome details, pretty sick stuff.  So he gets sober and becomes one of the most loving people I have ever met on this planet.  He devoted much of his free time to animal shelters to take care of cats. He would house sit for friends and clean the litter and feed their cats.  People trusted this guy despite knowing his past. Point is, the guy realized he acted really badly and found a way to make amends and found peace with himself over the horrible things he did to these poor innocent animals.  This guy was extremely loved in his circles.  He changed.  Unfortunately, his body broke down from his  addiction and he died sober and at peace with himself.  And cats were present at his funeral.

 

So any support given to Vick has to be earned by him.  The question is what has Vick done to change and is he truly sorry.  Only through his actions can that really come to pass.        

 

I am glad the cats found it in their heart to forgive him.  It was nice that they showed up at the end.

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Point is he found a way to forgive himself.

 

In the case of Vick though, we have no idea what he is actually thinking.  None of us know him.  Clearly he seemed to show no remorse in the beginning.  Then he did and has been praised for his actions in recent years.  But it is hard to tell what is real and what is just PR these days.

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This.  Sadly, you can't put much stock in what anyone in the public eye says.  It's big money, and they all pay somebody to generate press for them, and tell them what to say before going in to an interview. 

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In the case of Vick though, we have no idea what he is actually thinking.  None of us know him.  Clearly he seemed to show no remorse in the beginning.  Then he did and has been praised for his actions in recent years.  But it is hard to tell what is real and what is just PR these days.

True that. But there is a force that works in people when they hit a wall or bottom or whatever you'd like to call it.  Vick clearly hit that wall and paid a hefty price on various levels.

We can only go by his actions to decide whether he is sincere or not.  Andy Reid is a giant in the football world.  No way Vick deceives him.  PR can only hide so much.

The truth comes out....sooner or later.    

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True that. But there is a force that works in people when they hit a wall or bottom or whatever you'd like to call it.  Vick clearly hit that wall and paid a hefty price on various levels.

We can only go by his actions to decide whether he is sincere or not.  Andy Reid is a giant in the football world.  No way Vick deceives him.  PR can only hide so much.

The truth comes out....sooner or later.    

 

I hope you are right and I do think Vick is sorry for what he did.  As discussed though, for many fans that just won't be enough.

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The moral equivalence in this thread is fascinating based on the unique place dogs have in our society.

Based on the discussion, dog-killing is on the same level of heiniousness as:

1) rape

2) child molestation

 

 

you know what.....I believe it is up in the same level as these crimes. idk if I believe its as bad or worse.....but then again I don't have a numbering system. raping a woman is despicable. molesting a child is despicable. which is worse? most people will tell you molesting a child because they are kids and are considered innocent. I think they are both disgusting and don't believe violating a grown woman is somehow not as bad because she lived a few more years and is possibly not as "innocent" as the child. where do we draw these imaginary lines? why would a majority of people rate rape worse than beating a woman? killing dogs for the reasons vick did and in the ways he killed them is absolutely deplorable. why do people consider not so bad? because the dogs cant speak to us and tell us how scared they were? the things vick did are the actions of a degenerate human being who lacks moral values and is generally evil. our justice system says he has payed for his crimes....meanwhile there are people in prison longer for selling and growing marijuana, so don't go trying to sell me on the fact that our justice system holds the barometer for what is considered proper and just punishment because I'm not buying it.

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I'm with Rutgers.  I just don't have the will power.  I took a timeout to see how the signing would go down before really weighing in.  I normally post after about 0.00078 seconds of thought, this time I wanted to noodle it a little

 

at the end of the day I am unhappy about the signing on multiple levels, but I just can't and won't let it keep me from rooting for the team, the logo, and the guys I do like on the team

 

I also was very surprised when the news broke on NFL network, they were pretty positive about the move, and didn't even bring up his past, or the circus thing.  I am cautiously optimistic about geno's comments, but those were on the record, so he knew to be careful with what he said.

 

I am cautiously optimistic about how the jets are handling it, no news conference or media tour of dog shelters. 

 

so vick is basically an upgrade over the last 2 back ups the jets have had.  on a football level I can deal with that.

 

In the back of my mind I will root for simms to beat vick out, even though that is not possible

 

I can't wish bad things on vick physically, just maybe his new house floods or decker leaves him some streamers in his locker

 

so consider me panties unbunched and huggies off

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For me, specifically, on the issue of unforgiveable crimes, look to crimes that demonstrate an "evil heart." They don't even need to be violent. For instance, what Maddoff did is an unforgiveable crime. Do I personally put Vick's crime in that category? No, but I recognize that others do.

I'm sorry, but I find it disturbing that anyone would think repeated torture of innocent creatures purely for pleasure is anything other then an "evil heart". I mean seriously, wtf.

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Havent been reading the threads so this may have been asked but I'm curious why those who are boycotting the Jets, didnt boycott the NFL when they reinstated Vick?

 

If you're this passionate about it, why is it exclusive to the Jets and not the NFL as a whole.  The NFL is the corporation, the Jets are a team within it.  Why is the NFL not held to the same standard?

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I'm not boycotting the team, and I couldn't care less about Vick's past. The man did his time, and I really don't care about what's he's done off the field. I hardly know anything about our players off the field, my focus is on the field. I'm a fan of the players in Jets uniforms, not of the people that wear them.

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Another thing, NFL players hangout with NFL players, I'm assuming some of them might have been into dog fighting...were any teammates associated to his ring?  They had to have been around it, if not fought a dog at some point.

 

Standing their watching it happen or participating, whats the difference?

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Another thing, NFL players hangout with NFL players, I'm assuming some of them might have been into dog fighting...were any teammates associated to his ring?  They had to have been around it, if not fought a dog at some point.

 

Standing their watching it happen or participating, whats the difference?

 

Considering Vick being as popular as he is around the league...I'd imagine so, yes. I can't believe Vick alone would be someones reason for not watching NFL football. 

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Considering Vick being as popular as he is around the league...I'd imagine so, yes. I can't believe Vick alone would be someones reason for not watching NFL football. 

 

Exactly, so you might be rooting for someone who placed a bet, or fought a dog or participated in the other abuse and you just dont know it.

 

What he did literally makes me sick thinking about it but I'm not going to let someone like that ruin the enjoyment of one of my biggest passions in life.  Feel like he wins even more in that scenario, if that even makes sense.  I'm not letting him ruin my Sundays...the Jets already do that enough. 

 

And again, I dont get how those who are boycotting or whatever, didnt boycott the NFL as a whole.  It was their decision to reinstate him, not the Jets.

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Havent been reading the threads so this may have been asked but I'm curious why those who are boycotting the Jets, didnt boycott the NFL when they reinstated Vick?

 

If you're this passionate about it, why is it exclusive to the Jets and not the NFL as a whole.  The NFL is the corporation, the Jets are a team within it.  Why is the NFL not held to the same standard?

 

Plus, he committed his crimes in society. Shouldn't we be boycotting society?

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Yup, should  a town allow him to live there? ?ability to work, live, buy goods etc after successful jail served,, what is 'line in sand' 

 

The dude isn't a sex offender....doubful Mike Vick is prowling Elm St looking for doggies.

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I am being serious here, I would like people to go on record.  If you are one of the Jets fans that are boycotting the team please post in here and explain what that means exactly.  I would prefer to not get into all the reasons why, Vick did really bad things.  Terrible things.  

 

What I am looking for here is the fans who say they are boycotting the team to chime in.  Specifically:

 

  • What does that mean?  Will you not go to games in person?  
  • Will you not watch the Jets on TV?
  • Will you not purchase Jets merchandise?

    Any other thoughts on what the boycott means?  Oh and how long will this boycott last?  Forever or until Vick is off the team?

    Thanks!

Lol. The circus you are trying to belittle will just get bigger by doing so. To critize fans for not agreeing with a circus that didnt need to happen in first place belittles yourself.

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Lol. The circus you are trying to belittle will just get bigger by doing so. To critize fans for not agreeing with a circus that didnt need to happen in first place belittles yourself.

 

One year 5 mill deal for a backup QB qualifies as circus these days? 

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