Allowable past crimes allowed in Pro Sports

[SouthernJet]

This whole Vick thing got me thinking.

 

What past crimes (after they have successfully served our societal court ordered penalty/punishment) should exclude a person from continuing the Pro Sports profession?

 

Murder, rape, wife beating, pedophilia, animal abuse, armed robbery, DUI, manslaughter (can cover many areas with no premeditated or angered intent but someone died anyways)?

[BroadwayJets]

Ray Lewis murdered someone

[Larz]

this really comes down to the question of if our justice system is designed to punish or rehabilitate

 

if they have done the time, do they get allowed back in to society ?

 

I assume we're talking convicted criminals, not accused criminals

[SouthernJet]

this really comes down to the question of if our justice system is designed to punish or rehabilitate

 

if they have down the time, do they get allowed back in to society ?

 

I assume we're talking convicted criminals, not accused criminals

yes and yes

[Smashmouth]

this really comes down to the question of if our justice system is designed to punish or rehabilitate

 

if they have done the time, do they get allowed back in to society ?

 

I assume we're talking convicted criminals, not accused criminals

Lets put sports aside for a second.

 

get convicted of a felony in the REAL WORLD then go and see what type of job you land since most do criminal background checks. And guess why they do them ? so if something comes up they wont hire you.

 

Back to sports

 

Professional sports has become a joke...its competition grounds for multi billionaires to show their power vs one another. The salaries are totally out of control and the leagues themselves are about one thing and one thing only MONEY.

 

Someone wrote about how many things they do wrong when rooting for a sports team yet they keep watching ...unfortunately Im in that same boat ....I know all that's wrong yet I still watch. I think it was Rutgers who wrote the post.

 

At some point maybe society will have enough with all the bullsh*t that goes on in this world we live in but Im afraid we will have to hit rock bottom before that happens

[Larz]

Lets put sports aside for a second.

 

get convicted of a felony in the REAL WORLD then go and see what type of job you land since most do criminal background checks. And guess why they do them ? so if something comes up they wont hire you.

 

Back to sports

 

Professional sports has become a joke...its competition grounds for multi billionaires to show their power vs one another. The salaries are totally out of control and the leagues themselves are about one thing and one thing only MONEY.

 

Someone wrote about how many things they do wrong when rooting for a sports team yet they keep watching ...unfortunately Im in that same boat ....I know all that's wrong yet I still watch. I think it was Rutgers who wrote the post.

 

At some point maybe society will have enough with all the bullsh*t that goes on in this world we live in but Im afraid we will have to hit rock bottom before that happens

 

are you one of 32 people in the world that can do a specific job that impacts billions of dollars of revenue ?

 

if so, good for you.  if not, you are easily replaced like the rest of us.  that is what drives the "forgiving" in sports. 

 

the strike didn't kill baseball, nothing will kill football

[TuscanyTile2]

Pacman Jones is another example of a guy given a second chance.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Jones_%28American_football%29

 

Las Vegas shooting case & subsequent suspension

On the morning of February 19, 2007, during the 2007 NBA All-Star Game weekend in Las Vegas, Jones was allegedly involved in an altercation with an exotic dancer at Minxx, a local strip club. Jones and American rap artist Nelly patronized the club that evening. Nelly, along with someone known as Richard Rich, showered the stage with hundreds of one-dollar bills; an act known as "making it rain." Jones then joined Nelly by throwing his own money for "visual effect." Club promoter Chris Mitchell then directed his dancers to collect the money. According to the club's co-owner, Jones became enraged when a dancer began taking the money without his permission. He allegedly grabbed her by her hair and slammed her head on the stage. A security guard intervened and scuffled with members of Jones' entourage of half a dozen people. Jones then allegedly threatened the guard's life.^[7] During this time, Mitchell and a male associate left the club with a garbage bag filled with $81,020 and two Breitling watches, which police later recovered.^[8] After club patrons left following the original confrontation, the club owner claimed a person in Jones' entourage returned with a gun and fired into a crowd, damaging equipment and hitting three people, including the security guard involved in the earlier skirmish. The guard was shot twice, and one of the people hit—former professional wrestler Tommy Urbanski—was paralyzed from the waist down. Jones maintains that he did not know the shooter, although the club's owner insists that Jones did. On March 26, 2007, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department recommended to the city's district attorney that Jones be charged with one count of felony coercion, one misdemeanor count of battery and one misdemeanor count of threat to life.^[9]

More trouble followed Jones after the altercation, when drug dealer Darryl Jerome Moore was arrested. After the arrest, Moore told the police about his phone conversations with Jones. "We gotta slow down, man. We gotta get him focused on football, man." Moore is alleged to have said. Wiretapped phone conversations between Moore and his friends revealed Moore talking about how Jones bet on college games to earn quick money. "You know, I was talkin' to him the other day about smokin', and he was like 'man, if I didn't smoke I couldn't take all the stress that I'm dealing with right now,'" Moore said.^[10] Jones has not been connected to the Moore drug arrests or convicted for the Vegas stripper incident.

On April 21, a document revealed that Jones paid $15,000 to various people involved in the Las Vegas shooting.^[11]

Near the 2007 NFL Draft, Jones' numerous off-the-field problems led to speculation that the Titans would cut or trade Jones before his third season, despite his breakout second year. At that time, Reese himself said that he and others on the Titans had spent "countless hours" trying to set Jones straight. He also said that while Jones had been everything the Titans hoped for on the field, he'd been "nothing but a disaster off the field" during his two years in Nashville.^[3]

On April 10, 2007, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell announced a one-year suspension for Jones for violation of the NFL player conduct policy, to be re-evaluated after the tenth regular-season game, pending disposition of current cases, which Jones appealed.^[12][13] This was the first time in 44 years that a player was suspended for an offense other than substance abuse. Jones took out a full page ad in The Tennessean, promising "he'll win back trust" of his teammates and fans." "To my family, teammates, coaches and fans, I recognize that I have lost the right to ask for your patience and understanding," Jones wrote. "However, I will do everything in my power to regain your trust and respect." Jones also wrote in the letter, his plans to re-enroll and finish his degree at West Virginia University. "The basis of the appeal ... will be to clarify some of the facts and address the unprecedented punishment that was imposed," Jones wrote in the letter. However on June 12, Jones withdrew his appeal.

During his suspension Jones signed with Total Nonstop Action Wrestling, despite an agreement between TNA and the Titans organization that he would only have a "non-physical" role in the company,^[14] and went on to win the TNA World Tag Team Championship with Ron Killings. He also established a record label, "National Street League Records", and performed as one half of the rap duo Posterboyz.^[15][16]

On May 7, 2007, Jones was stopped at 12:45 a.m. on Interstate 65 heading into downtown Nashville after an officer clocked him on radar at 79 mph (127 km/h) in a 55 mph (89 km/h) zone. Jones was driving the red 2004 Cadillac XLR Roadster which had been seized in the April 2006 cocaine bust, and which he had bought back from the police at auction.^[5]

On June 18, 2007, Jones was sought by police for questioning after a shooting at an Atlanta strip club allegedly involving members of his entourage. According to police at the scene, Jones was not present during the shooting, and was not being charged.^[17]

On June 20, 2007, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and Clark County District Attorney's office announced that Jones would face two felony charges stemming from the February strip club melee.^[18] But on November 13, 2007, Jones accepted a plea deal;^[19] on Dec. 6, Jones pleaded no contest to one charge of conspiracy to commit disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor. He was given a suspended prison sentence of one year, probation, and ordered to perform 200 hours of community service.^[20]

On June 25, 2007, Tommy Urbanski and his wife Kathy sued Jones in civil court, claiming that Jones had bitten his left ankle, and was responsible for the shooting.^[21] The lawsuit also named the Tennessee Titans franchise and the NFL as defendants, on the grounds that Jones' employers knew of his erratic behavior prior to the Minxx incident, but did not suspend him until afterwards. Had the Titans suspended Jones prior to the NBA All-Star game, the suit argues, he would not have been invited to the Las Vegas events, and the incident would not have taken place.^[22]

On August 13, 2007, regarding the February Las Vegas strip club incident, Jones told Bryant Gumbel of HBO Sports' Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel that he was innocent and had never hit the stripper or told anyone he was going to kill them. When asked about friend and convicted drug dealer Darryl Moore, Jones said that he did not know Moore was a drug dealer and felt surprised and betrayed. Jones also said he did not think he got a fair say in his April meeting with Goodell.^[23]

Ten weeks into the 2007 season, Roger Goodell reviewed his decision, but ultimately declined to reduce it. Following this announcement, the NFL Players Association (NFLPA) said that it would appeal Jones' suspension.^[24] Tennessee running back LenDale White told The Tennessean that he thinks that "53 of 53" Titans' players would want Jones to return to the team. Quarterback Vince Young said, "We are going to do well without him, we can do well with him...".^[25] On December 13, 2007, the NFL agreed to hear the players' union's appeal on Jones's behalf. The players' union appealed Roger Goodell's decision to not allow Jones to be reinstated during the 2007 season.^[26]

On January 15, 2008, Jones was accused of hitting a woman in a strip club in Atlanta, Georgia on the morning of January 3. The woman, Wanda S. Jackson, was seeking an arrest warrant.^[27] However, on January 16, Jackson withdrew the warrant.

On February 1, 2008, ESPN reported that Goodell remained "disappointed" in Jones and that he would most likely not be reinstated after the Super Bowl. The NFL was to review Jones after the 2008 Pro Bowl.^[28] It was also reported that the Titans would try to trade Jones, if reinstated.^[29]

On March 8, 2008, Jones announced on a Tennessee radio station that he felt he was in "tip-top shape" and was ready to be reinstated. His agent also announced that they would consider applying for reinstatement before the 2008 NFL Draft. Jones also said on the radio show that he would like to play for the Dallas Cowboys if the Titans desired to trade him.^[30] The Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders, Kansas City Chiefs, Houston Texans and New Orleans Saints also expressed interest in Jones. On March 30, Jones participated at a charity basketball event, where he then signed a football for a fan with the #21, later saying that he believed he would wear the number if he ended up in Dallas with the Cowboys.^[31]NFL Network correspondent Adam Schefter had also described the Tennessee–Dallas trade for Jones as being "imminent".^[32] On April 1, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said that he would have a decision on reinstating Jones prior to training camp, presumably in July.^[33] However, the next day, reports said that the trade was being delayed due to the Cowboys denying the request to provide a fourth-round pick and a pick in the 2009 NFL Draft. Also, disagreements let out over whether the Cowboys would reimburse the Titans for a bonus owed to Jones.^[34] However, Adam Schefter of NFL Network reported on April 13 that trade talks had restarted, with the Cowboys offering a sixth-round pick and the Titans requesting a fourth-round pick in the 2008 draft.^[35]

[Smashmouth]

are you one of 32 people in the world that can do a specific job that impacts billions of dollars of revenue ?

 

if so, good for you.  if not, you are easily replaced like the rest of us.  that is what drives the "forgiving" in sports. 

 

the strike didn't kill baseball, nothing will kill football

Actully Im one of 36

[ZachEY]

Actully Im one of 36

 

It is hard to find good Fluffers these days.

[SayNoToDMC]

Lets put sports aside for a second.

get convicted of a felony in the REAL WORLD then go and see what type of job you land since most do criminal background checks. And guess why they do them ? so if something comes up they wont hire you.

Back to sports

Professional sports has become a joke...its competition grounds for multi billionaires to show their power vs one another. The salaries are totally out of control and the leagues themselves are about one thing and one thing only MONEY.

Someone wrote about how many things they do wrong when rooting for a sports team yet they keep watching ...unfortunately Im in that same boat ....I know all that's wrong yet I still watch. I think it was Rutgers who wrote the post.

At some point maybe society will have enough with all the bullsh*t that goes on in this world we live in but Im afraid we will have to hit rock bottom before that happens

Lol, you're all over the place.

You wouldn't be able to find a job after breaking the law because there's nothing unique about you. You can't run a 4.3 forty or throw a ball 80 yards. There's no reason to take the risk of hiring a felon to fill some job 100 colleges can poop out a replacement for cheaper.

The league is a business, businesses are about profit. The owners bleed us for what they can get and the players salaries are nothing more than a percentage based off of that. They get paid this because their job can't just be easily filled. Lower their salaries you're just putting more in the billionaires pockets. It sounds like your problem is with the way American capitalism works and I don't totally disagree, but I don't think I can discuss that here.

I'm going to keep watching. You lay in bed tonight and think about all the problems in society. Then rank where you actually put Michael Vick being a backup QB for the Jets. Good luck waiting on the age of Aquarius. People by nature are always going to do whatever suits them and their personal narrative best, for me it'll be watching football Sunday's, cause that's what I like to do.

[Larz]

Actully Im one of 36

 

then just make sure your agent negotiates a smart deal, or the organization you are with might be mean to you

[SouthernJet]

No one has actually answered yet, LOL

[Larz]

to get back to the question, anything with kids is just way out of bounds.

 

lewis was never convicted of murder, if he had been, he would not be around to play, like hernandez

 

so really, we are only talking a conviction that gets you 2-5 years, so you get out when you are young enough to still play

 

and sadly, domestic violence is a common occurrence

[Smashmouth]

It is hard to find good Fluffers these days.

what ?

[ZachEY]

what ?

 

Oh, boy, well this is awkward...

 

Fluffer (per wikipedia): A fluffer is a person employed to keep a male adult film star aroused on the set.^[1] These duties, which do not necessarily involve touching the actors, are considered part of the makeup department. After setting up the desired angle, the director asks the actors to hold position and calls for the fluffer to "fluff" the actors for the shot. Fluffing could also entail sexual acts such as fellatio or non-penetrative sex.

 

The insinuation is that this is your career, and you are one of the top 36 in the world at it.

[SayNoToDMC]

Oh, boy, well this is awkward...

Fluffer (per wikipedia): A fluffer is a person employed to keep a male adult film star aroused on the set.^[1] These duties, which do not necessarily involve touching the actors, are considered part of the makeup department. After setting up the desired angle, the director asks the actors to hold position and calls for the fluffer to "fluff" the actors for the shot. Fluffing could also entail sexual acts such as fellatio or non-penetrative sex.

The insinuation is that this is your career, and you are one of the top 36 in the world at it.

They sent him home this week. He's been all teeth since we signed Vick

[Bugg]

Strkes me as odd that the media treatss Binds, ROsae, McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, as the most awful people. But gives a job to Ray Lewis and said almost nothing about Pacman Jones. Stallworth or Leonard Little. There does seem to be a lesser expectation of behavior for NFL players than other athletes.

[Smashmouth]

Oh, boy, well this is awkward...

 

Fluffer (per wikipedia): A fluffer is a person employed to keep a male adult film star aroused on the set.^[1] These duties, which do not necessarily involve touching the actors, are considered part of the makeup department. After setting up the desired angle, the director asks the actors to hold position and calls for the fluffer to "fluff" the actors for the shot. Fluffing could also entail sexual acts such as fellatio or non-penetrative sex.

 

The insinuation is that this is your career, and you are one of the top 36 in the world at it.

you should be embarrassed that you even know WTF that description is

 

The only thing awkward is that by  posting that not only do you insult me but you make yourself look like an idiot. You should feel awkward.

 

I do happen to be one of 36 people do to the job I do and I worked hard for 30 + years to have the experience to do it and get selected out of a pool of 3000 + applicants across the country I get paid extremely well to do so.

[JiFtheOracle]

No one has actually answered yet, LOL

 

You pretty much just listed all the crimes in your post.  Are you looking for examples? 

 

Little and Stallworth were convincted of man slaughter and still played in the league.  Bunch of dudes have beat their wife/girl/mom/kid, etc.  Its a very rapey league.  Drugs.  Guns.  Assault.  I mean, there a sh*t ton of examples.

[SayNoToDMC]

Strkes me as odd that the media treatss Binds, ROsae, McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, as the most awful people. But gives a job to Ray Lewis and said almost nothing about Pacman Jones. Stallworth or Leonard Little. There does seem to be a lesser expectation of behavior for NFL players than other athletes.

Baseball writers view themselves as deities and the game of baseball theirs. Why the HoF voting is a joke

[Larz]

you should be embarrassed that you even know WTF that description is

 

The only thing awkward is that by  posting that not only do you insult me but you make yourself look like an idiot. You should feel awkward.

 

I do happen to be one of 36 people do to the job I do and I worked hard for 30 + years to have the experience to do it and get selected out of a pool of 3000 + applicants across the country I get paid extremely well to do so.

 

30 years ?

 

only  a matter of time before you get replaced by a young gun

 

better check that contract for language about letting you go before you earn your retirement, I'd hate for you to get sanchised

[Warfish]

This whole Vick thing got me thinking.

 

What past crimes (after they have successfully served court ordered penalty/punishment) should exclude a person from continuing the profession?

 

Murder, rape, wife beating, pedophilia, animal abuse, armed robbery, DUI, manslaughter (can cover many areas with no intended intent but someone died anyways)?

 

I don't think it can ever be so clear-cut as "these crimes, no, these crimes, yes".

 

Domestic Violence is a perfect example.  This can range from "was totally innocent and his crazy ass wife was just more convincing" to "all but beat his wife to death on a regular basis for 10 years".

 

You simply cannot judge that only on a top-level yes/no paradigm.

 

If I had to give you a list of unforgiveables?

 

1. Murder (which won't matter, cause he'd be in prison for life).

2. Serious Business Rape or Child Sexual Abuse

3. Serious Business Domestic Abuse or Child Abuse

4. Serious Business Sadistic Animal Abuse

 

For a variety of obvious, and personal/ethical, reasons, I would have a very hard time rooting for a guy who did these things, regadless of if he "paid his debt to society" or not.

 

A Punter?  Ok.  A QB......far harder.  The more important, vital, etc, the harder it would be.

 

Their remorse plays a factor (personally, I do not in any form believe Mike Vick is remoresful.  I think he has a great PR team managing his post-prison image telling him what to say, but in his heart of hearts, I have no doubt in my mind he thinks he did nothing wrong, and was wrongfully persecuted).

[JiFtheOracle]

you should be embarrassed that you even know WTF that description is

 

The only thing awkward is that by  posting that not only do you insult me but you make yourself look like an idiot. You should feel awkward.

 

I do happen to be one of 36 people do to the job I do and I worked hard for 30 + years to have the experience to do it and get selected out of a pool of 3000 + applicants across the country I get paid extremely well to do so.

 

Unfortunately, this darn society thingy values Mike Vick's skill set more than yours.

 

The NFL as a corporation, is more lenient on the criminal history of their employees compared to your average company.  Probably because its a bunch of morons running fast and hitting each other for a living.  Its not like they work for the US Treasury or something.

[SouthernJet]

Strkes me as odd that the media treatss Binds, ROsae, McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, as the most awful people. But gives a job to Ray Lewis and said almost nothing about Pacman Jones. Stallworth or Leonard Little. There does seem to be a lesser expectation of behavior for NFL players than other athletes.

Or guy from Lion, forget his name, who killed a lady via DUI after he had already had DUI issues in past..

[Smashmouth]

Unfortunately, this darn society thingy values Mike Vick's skill set more than yours.

 

The NFL as a corporation, is more lenient on the criminal history of their employees compared to your average company.  Probably because its a bunch of morons running fast and hitting each other for a living.  Its not like they work for the US Treasury or something.

It is the NFL's right to be lenient ...People voice their opinions then go to the games anyway. I will still be a Jets fan with or without Michael Vick because I root for the team. But first and foremost I do not think Michael Vick will succeed here.

 

The thing that really bothers me is now the Jets decided its time to go out and get elite skill level players but not when they used the 5th pick in the draft ? When Sanchez was first picked this team did nothing and went into the season with Chancey Stuckey and Cotchery as our top WR's nothing more stupid than that. It was so bad they had to work a deal for Braylon in week 4 but hey the Jets know what they're doing right ?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Strkes me as odd that the media treatss Binds, ROsae, McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, as the most awful people. But gives a job to Ray Lewis and said almost nothing about Pacman Jones. Stallworth or Leonard Little. There does seem to be a lesser expectation of behavior for NFL players than other athletes.

 

Baseball, right or wrong, is viewed by their writers as America's pastime and a pure sport.  Which is why PEDs and gambling, which infringe upon the game itself is crucified, but because beating your wife, strangling an umpire and assault does not directly impact the results on the field, that's allowable. I love baseball, have watched it my whole life, but the HOF voting is a joke. 

[SouthernJet]

, but the HOF voting is a joke. 

amen

[Kleckineau]

It is hard to find good Fluffers these days.

Heard they unionized.

AFL/UFF

[Cyberjet]

Strkes me as odd that the media treatss Binds, ROsae, McGwire, Alex Rodriguez, as the most awful people. But gives a job to Ray Lewis and said almost nothing about Pacman Jones. Stallworth or Leonard Little. There does seem to be a lesser expectation of behavior for NFL players than other athletes.

I understand where you're coming from - the actions and the ramifications are slightly different - the McGuires Rods etc cheated the system and integrity of the game for personal glory and fame. It's not only their actions but the ramifications of what they did particularly in breaking other individual records unfairly - Maris comes to mind. The other actions were behaviors outside of their sport - the reaction will be much more variable albeit some of the reaction was very low key particularly in the case of Lewis.

People hate cheaters.

[ZachEY]

you should be embarrassed that you even know WTF that description is

 

The only thing awkward is that by  posting that not only do you insult me but you make yourself look like an idiot. You should feel awkward.

 

I do happen to be one of 36 people do to the job I do and I worked hard for 30 + years to have the experience to do it and get selected out of a pool of 3000 + applicants across the country I get paid extremely well to do so.

 

 

pls provide W2s for verification.

[Maxman]

are you one of 32 people in the world that can do a specific job that impacts billions of dollars of revenue ?

 

if so, good for you.  if not, you are easily replaced like the rest of us.  that is what drives the "forgiving" in sports. 

 

the strike didn't kill baseball, nothing will kill football

 

Saved me the trouble of typing out the exact same thing.

[New York Mick]

Yea but Vick can't play worth a sh*t anymore so it's a waste of time.

[Maxman]

you should be embarrassed that you even know WTF that description is

 

The only thing awkward is that by  posting that not only do you insult me but you make yourself look like an idiot. You should feel awkward.

 

I do happen to be one of 36 people do to the job I do and I worked hard for 30 + years to have the experience to do it and get selected out of a pool of 3000 + applicants across the country I get paid extremely well to do so.

 

JN Memberships not only help support the site, but VIPs get a can coozie.  Be dialing people.  

[Sperm Edwards]

It is the NFL's right to be lenient ...People voice their opinions then go to the games anyway. I will still be a Jets fan with or without Michael Vick because I root for the team. But first and foremost I do not think Michael Vick will succeed here.

 

The thing that really bothers me is now the Jets decided its time to go out and get elite skill level players but not when they used the 5th pick in the draft ? When Sanchez was first picked this team did nothing and went into the season with Chancey Stuckey and Cotchery as our top WR's nothing more stupid than that. It was so bad they had to work a deal for Braylon in week 4 but hey the Jets know what they're doing right ?

 

Still doing the "nobody had it so bad as Mark Sanchez" thing?

[Lizard King]

There are countless wife beaters in the NFL just pick up a newspaper.