Movie Madness Mafia - Good vs Evil

[Pac]

You dont get it.   Its non-stop all day meetings and then team events at night.  Very little free time.  I'll have to keep up on my phone during the mind numbingly boring meeting with 2,500 people sitting in the same room listening to our executives speak.

 

I've been to numerous sales conferences - most recently in Atlantis, Bahamas.  I know exactly what you're going to be doing and what your stupid day will look like.

 

I also know you'll have plenty of free time. 

[Integrity28]

Also, I find it interesting that Smashmouth is in neither of you lists CTM.

 

What happened when Wombat was lynched, that prompted you to suddenly FOS me and dismiss Smash as scum, after you insisted he was scum and treated me like I was obvious town most of the game?

[Integrity28]

I've been to numerous sales conferences - most recently in Atlantis, Bahamas.  I know exactly what you're going to be doing and what your stupid day will look like.

 

I also know you'll have plenty of free time. 

 

Survey says: "not getting laid"?

[AVM]

 

FYI

 

Hallia has played get behind the Ape. Ace is wut? Smash is playing like scum, who think CTM is wolf leader. CTM's train looks chock-full-of-dirty. So, the question becomes, who else has been nudging his train today - saying things like 'he makes sense as a convert' without joining the train? Also, when I voted him on and off earlier, did anyone quickly pile up behind me? I remember AVM throwing down a quick vote on CTM after I did, and then unvoting him almost as quickly... and then he sort of made believe he was "doing something" with those actions.

 

That's all I can recall. 

 

I'm not sure why CTM is talking out of both sides of his mouth and I honestly can't tell if his paranoia about conversions is real or fake, I'm leaning fake because he's usually more pragmatic and less weepy vageen than this. That said, he has the potential to be a giant twat at the flip of a switch in these games, so this cannot be discounted.

 

I'm at a place where I'd vote Hallia, Ace, or Verbal if we are CL hunting. I'd go with Smash if we want a guarantee that we are at least lynching a bad guy. If the numbers are what I think they are, then Smash might be the final scum, which would eliminate scum NKs and also be a means of saving townie numbers - this seems to have been overlooked mostly. This could be just as relevant and important to extending the game as lynching the CL.

 

Final scum?  So you think there is only 1 scum left?  Even though there has been a second unaccounted for shot EVERY night?

 

So...by your logic there is one scum (Smash), the CL (Verb) and the last convert (me).  So no one else is scum...based off this post?  

 

Logic fail by the Ape...third time since we started up mafia again.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  I'll be damned if you fool me three times.

 

A point to note about this, CTM is 99% of the time the one that instigates with me. Then he feigns having the burden of "dealing with me" as part of how he sucks me into being trolled.

 

I'd like to know where I've contradicted myself, because I've pointed out where CTM's logic is contradictory (double-talking) several times, but you are instead referencing me being contradictory, while making a push on CTM.

 

All of this from the town's "2nd cop", who seconded the notion of slowing down the Wombat train, while a conversion was submitted.

 

I may need to re-shuffle my list come tomorrow. 

 

 

Yeah....you might wanna get on that.

[Integrity28]

 

 

 

Final scum?  So you think there is only 1 scum left?  Even though there has been a second unaccounted for shot EVERY night?

 

So...by your logic there is one scum (Smash), the CL (Verb) and the last convert (me).  So no one else is scum...based off this post?  

 

Logic fail by the Ape...third time since we started up mafia again.  Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me.  I'll be damned if you fool me three times.

 

 

 

Yeah, it was 4:50 AM when I was spitballing that. I was thinking there was 2 scum on each team, never even thought about the amount of NKs.

 

GFY

[Integrity28]

*crickets*

 

Come on guys... make a move. 

[CTM]

Also, I find it interesting that Smashmouth is in neither of you lists CTM.

 

What happened when Wombat was lynched, that prompted you to suddenly FOS me and dismiss Smash as scum, after you insisted he was scum and treated me like I was obvious town most of the game?

 

 

Bold =  gotcha nonsense

 

Blue... I have thought Smash was scum since day 2. I have been very clear though that I don't think he is CL. Why i went from town to cult on you post Wwwwombat was because you or verbal made the most sense s a conversion. Both were presumed and vetted townies.. Regadless, I have no interest in voting you until the CL is dead.

 

Help us catch the Cl and I will adjust my opinion, obv

[Verbal]

Now, with regards to the read - I think you are missing the points I made about Verbal being CL when I voted him. He used the LD poorly on JVOR, who died and was scum, but the way Verbal used the LD, it left wiggle room for JVOR to flip town or scum, and Verbal to back-pedal his way out of it with a simple "damn, I used my Lie Detector on the wrong statement". In other words, his used of the LD has an aspect to it that hedged his bets. 

 

By being right, he gains town points. I think his case on Wombat, the absolute certainty was just a good ol' fashioned bus play.

 

Personally, I think Verbal could absolutely be the CL and he just made a good gambit play. Not sure why you, of all people, are dismissing the idea just because he bagged scum and voted Wombat. You love bus plays.

 

You are labeling a mistake as incriminating evidence.  Sure, it makes you suspicious.....but I still bagged scum.

 

As for Wombat, I posted my case on him.  That added to the fact that I've played hundreds of games with him and know him very well in mafia, made me VERY confident he was not town.  It was a combination of meta and the tone of his posts - hell, you called him out for the very same stuff.  So I'm bussing him, and you weren't?

 

Your ability to make hypocritical statements is unparalleled.

[AVM]

*crickets*

 

Come on guys... make a move. 

 

Says the guy not voting currently..

[Integrity28]

Bold =  gotcha nonsense

 

Blue... I have thought Smash was scum since day 2. I have been very clear though that I don't think he is CL. Why i went from town to cult on you post Wwwwombat was because you or verbal made the most sense s a conversion. Both were presumed and vetted townies.. Regadless, I have no interest in voting you until the CL is dead.

 

Help us catch the Cl and I will adjust my opinion, obv

 

 

Sigh. I have been, dumb ass.

 

How about discussing our differing points about whether Verbal 2.0 could be CL and running a gambit? Ya see, I am in fact trying to hunt CL, you are just debunking what I'm saying for illogical reasons and flailing about like a paranoid twit.

[Verbal]

Says the guy not voting currently..

 

Like I said, hypocritical.

[Verbal]

It is possible for the Ape and CTM to make game-related posts that don't mention the other?

 

Holy hell, the level of sexual angst being displayed by these two is getting to socially awkward levels.

[CTM]

Sigh. I have been, dumb ass.

 

How about discussing our differing points about whether Verbal 2.0 could be CL and running a gambit? Ya see, I am in fact trying to hunt CL, you are just debunking what I'm saying for illogical reasons and flailing about like a paranoid twit.

 

 

So you think the CL ran a risky gambit in which if JVOR (a player he could not know the alignment or role of) was exactly what he said he was, the CL would be speed lynched the next day?

 

 

Would take balls of steal, and we know verbal is a eunuch.. so doubtful..

[Integrity28]

You are labeling a mistake as incriminating evidence.  Sure, it makes you suspicious.....but I still bagged scum.

 

As for Wombat, I posted my case on him.  That added to the fact that I've played hundreds of games with him and know him very well in mafia, made me VERY confident he was not town.  It was a combination of meta and the tone of his posts - hell, you called him out for the very same stuff.  So I'm bussing him, and you weren't?

 

Your ability to make hypocritical statements is unparalleled.

 

I did call him out for the same stuff, so did other people, which is usually what precipitates a teammate - especially one as valuable as a CL - bussing him. If the cult viewed him as an inevitable loss, then bussing him is a no-brainer. You know the theory is accurate - I may not be right - but you can't argue the bussing logic is wrong, and it is actually pinging a LOT that you are playing this off as a non-consideration. A townie mindset would know exactly what I'm saying here.

 

There's nothing hypocritical about what I'm saying either, I'm obviousnly not the CL. My premise is that the CL bussing Wombat is a good gambit. Again, this shouldn't be lost on you or CTM, but it seems to be.

 

Vote Verbal

 

Theory at first, bolstered by your counter points paying no consideration to townie point of view or logic.

[CTM]

It is possible for the Ape and CTM to make game-related posts that don't mention the other?

 

Holy hell, the level of sexual angst being displayed by these two is getting to socially awkward levels.

 

Social awkwardness is your wheelhouse, I reckon you are a good judge of it. Ken doll

[Integrity28]

Says the guy not voting currently..

 

This is very, very weak stuff from you. I've batted leadoff for a large part of the game. 

[Integrity28]

It is possible for the Ape and CTM to make game-related posts that don't mention the other?

 

Holy hell, the level of sexual angst being displayed by these two is getting to socially awkward levels.

 

We bicker like long lost brothers. Not sure what sort of deviant you are that you see it in any other light.

[AVM]

This is very, very weak stuff from you. I've batted leadoff for a large part of the game. 

 

Yes, you have.  For a large part of today, though, you've been asking people to "make a play" or "make a move"

 

Nyn moved to Hess last night.  Based off what you're asking people, that should suffice.  The problem is you don't want people to make A move.  You want people to make THE move (in your mind)...and no one agrees with you on Verb.

 

Yeah, I know your argument is going to be "just because no one else agrees doesn't make me wrong"

[CTM]

ape... Why will you not vote hallia?

[Integrity28]

So you think the CL ran a risky gambit in which if JVOR (a player he could not know the alignment or role of) was exactly what he said he was, the CL would be speed lynched the next day?

 

 

Would take balls of steal, and we know verbal is a eunuch.. so doubtful..

 

I think Verbal lie detected a statement that was ambiguous - which allows him to spin based on how JVOR flipped.

 

It allowed him to call JVOR a liar and get him lynched, but also positioned Verbal where he could say "I guess he lied about his protection, but not his alignment" if he flipped town, or he'd flip scum then it's "I used my LD wrong, but bagged scum look at me!!!" You yourself pointed out that Verbal didn't test statements BY YOU that said you were town, which is why I'm very skeptical of his reveal.

He's a very established player. He said himself he's played "hundreds" of games with Wombat... but he used his lie detector for something other than vetting someone's alignment? In a conversion game no less? Really? You believe that? 

 

Yes, it comes with risk... but this is Verbal's second incarnation in this game. Why not go for the "win fantastic or die trying"?

 

Also, he was town previously, and probably inherited a non-town role in re-joining. Gaming the mod a bit, but yeah.

[Integrity28]

ape... Why will you not vote hallia?

 

Totally willing to. I believe I've said several times she's on my short list for playing GBtA.

[CTM]

I think Verbal lie detected a statement that was ambiguous - which allows him to spin based on how JVOR flipped.

 

It allowed him to call JVOR a liar and get him lynched, but also positioned Verbal where he could say "I guess he lied about his protection, but not his alignment" if he flipped town, or he'd flip scum then it's "I used my LD wrong, but bagged scum look at me!!!" You yourself pointed out that Verbal didn't test statements BY YOU that said you were town, which is why I'm very skeptical of his reveal.

He's a very established player. He said himself he's played "hundreds" of games with Wombat... but he used his lie detector for something other than vetting someone's alignment? In a conversion game no less? Really? You believe that? 

 

Yes, it comes with risk... but this is Verbal's second incarnation in this game. Why not go for the "win fantastic or die trying"?

 

Also, he was town previously, and probably inherited a non-town role in re-joining. Gaming the mod a bit, but yeah.

 

 

I am not saying it's impossible just unlikely.. Ace/Hallia make more sense..

[Pac]

Official Vote Count:

 

CTM (3) - Ace, Hallia, Smash

Hallia (4) - CTM, Dan, AVM, JiF

Ace (1) - Hess

Verb (1) - Ape

 

 

With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to send to the afterlife...

 

DEADLINE 8 Hours, 28 Minutes.....  Random death if there isn't a lynch by deadline.

[AVM]

I think Verbal lie detected a statement that was ambiguous - which allows him to spin based on how JVOR flipped.

 

It allowed him to call JVOR a liar and get him lynched, but also positioned Verbal where he could say "I guess he lied about his protection, but not his alignment" if he flipped town, or he'd flip scum then it's "I used my LD wrong, but bagged scum look at me!!!" You yourself pointed out that Verbal didn't test statements BY YOU that said you were town, which is why I'm very skeptical of his reveal.

He's a very established player. He said himself he's played "hundreds" of games with Wombat... but he used his lie detector for something other than vetting someone's alignment? In a conversion game no less? Really? You believe that? 

 

Yes, it comes with risk... but this is Verbal's second incarnation in this game. Why not go for the "win fantastic or die trying"?

 

Also, he was town previously, and probably inherited a non-town role in re-joining. Gaming the mod a bit, but yeah.

 

Because if, as you say, Verb was CL then at the time they had 3 members and knew they had at least one more conversion coming the next day.  You don't go for the "win fantastic or die trying" when you're winning and have a chance to get stronger the next day.

 

What if you had another shot?  Or someone else did?  And they shot JVoY right then and there and he flips town.  Then Verb runs the risk of getting lynched and not being able to convert next day.

[Integrity28]

Yes, you have.  For a large part of today, though, you've been asking people to "make a play" or "make a move"

 

Nyn moved to Hess last night.  Based off what you're asking people, that should suffice.  The problem is you don't want people to make A move.  You want people to make THE move (in your mind)...and no one agrees with you on Verb.

 

Yeah, I know your argument is going to be "just because no one else agrees doesn't make me wrong"

 

Nah, good spin, but nah.

 

You and Verbal are pretty much just defending against stuff. Ace isn't posting. JIF nada. Dan nothing. Hallia nothing. Nyn is poking Hess. The game is in a stare-down. Nyn is the exception, and CTM to an extent is at least pretending to be trying to figure it all out.

 

Why did Verbal go from "door flies open" - I lie detected JVOR, kill him - I know Wombat is scum, kill him - to pretty much offering nothing but filthy sounding defenses to my case on him?

 

Me thinks AVM is showing his ass here. AVM is doing that dirty dance of scum getting heat... he's taking everything I say and trying to spin it as me being scummy, but his point of view on what is compelling me shows a lack of him empathizing with town. He knows I'm not wolf, he knows I"m not scum.... but he's got to make me sound scummy so people don't listen.

 

You and Verbal wolfpack?

[Integrity28]

I am not saying it's impossible just unlikely.. Ace/Hallia make more sense..

 

Fair enough. 

 

Ace, Hallia, Dan and Smash are all non-townie to me. I get the sense that we all agree this grouping has a lot of non-town in it, which I said this somewhere earlier. Verbal is my outside bet at CL. 

 

Honestly, maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I cannot look past the misuse of a LD. Not in a way where it clearly hedges Verbal's move in a way that shows Verbal didn't know and didn't care if JVOR was scum or town, Verbal could come away from JVOR lynch without heat no matter how he flipped, purely because of the LD misuse. Seems too convenient.

[AVM]

Nah, good spin, but nah.

 

You and Verbal are pretty much just defending against stuff. Ace isn't posting. JIF nada. Dan nothing. Hallia nothing. Nyn is poking Hess. The game is in a stare-down. Nyn is the exception, and CTM to an extent is at least pretending to be trying to figure it all out.

 

Why did Verbal go from "door flies open" - I lie detected JVOR, kill him - I know Wombat is scum, kill him - to pretty much offering nothing but filthy sounding defenses to my case on him?

 

Me thinks AVM is showing his ass here. AVM is doing that dirty dance of scum getting heat... he's taking everything I say and trying to spin it as me being scummy, but his point of view on what is compelling me shows a lack of him empathizing with town. He knows I'm not wolf, he knows I"m not scum.... but he's got to make me sound scummy so people don't listen.

 

You and Verbal wolfpack?

 

I want to be clear that when I'm saying this (for once) I'm not being funny -- I don't have to make you sound scummy for no one to listen to you on Verb.  No one has followed your case on Verb as CL (as convert? could be a good case...but that's not what you're suggesting)

[Integrity28]

Because if, as you say, Verb was CL then at the time they had 3 members and knew they had at least one more conversion coming the next day.  You don't go for the "win fantastic or die trying" when you're winning and have a chance to get stronger the next day.

 

What if you had another shot?  Or someone else did?  And they shot JVoY right then and there and he flips town.  Then Verb runs the risk of getting lynched and not being able to convert next day.

 

That's the point - him misusing the LD affords him the excuse and benefit of the doubt that he is probably town and just booted his role. I wouldn't have shot him then and there. The excuse for him being wrong, if JVOR flipped town, was built in to the horrible use of the LD.

[AVM]

Fair enough. 

 

Ace, Hallia, Dan and Smash are all non-townie to me. I get the sense that we all agree this grouping has a lot of non-town in it, which I said this somewhere earlier. Verbal is my outside bet at CL. 

 

Honestly, maybe I'm over-thinking it, but I cannot look past the misuse of a LD. Not in a way where it clearly hedges Verbal's move in a way that shows Verbal didn't know and didn't care if JVOR was scum or town, Verbal could come away from JVOR lynch without heat no matter how he flipped, purely because of the LD misuse. Seems too convenient.

 

So you're off the CTM is cult/CL/scum mindset now?

 

Because if not you just went old school Ape, naming SEVEN of the remaining 11 players in the game as non-town (adding myself, Verb, and CTM)

 

This after at 4:30 this morning you thought there were 3.  I mean...come on.

[AVM]

Eh...there are 5 non-town left, so 7 out of 11 really isn't that bad I guess.

 

Still...basically FOS'ing over half the game left is LOL.

 

It also implies that you are solid on Nyn, Hess, JiF and yourself.  Clearly you'd count yourself as town and JiF can explain two of the missed NK attempts, including last nights. 

[Integrity28]

I want to be clear that when I'm saying this (for once) I'm not being funny -- I don't have to make you sound scummy for no one to listen to you on Verb.  No one has followed your case on Verb as CL (as convert? could be a good case...but that's not what you're suggesting)

 

No, nobody is following my case on Verbal - because I've got to deal with you and CTM battering it down left and right. Since when do townies stand in the way of a rogue single case and vote with this much persistence? 

 

Nobody had a problem following my case on CTM though, or Hallia (when I was actually wrong that it was her doing the stalling), or Dan, or any of the townies I cased... which is why I'm backing off on wanting to bat leadoff, too much GBtA.

 

Cue: "it's not all about you, ape" banter

[AVM]

No, nobody is following my case on Verbal - because I've got to deal with you and CTM battering it down left and right. Since when do townies stand in the way of a rogue single case and vote with this much persistence? 

 

Nobody had a problem following my case on CTM though, or Hallia (when I was actually wrong that it was her doing the stalling), or Dan, or any of the townies I cased... which is why I'm backing off on wanting to bat leadoff, too much GBtA.

 

Cue: "it's not all about you, ape" banter

 

Me batting it down left and right?  Did I even argue you on it until today? lol

 

As for the bolded, you know exactly why this is happening lol.  1 -- it's a conversion game. 2 --  it seems like 5 of the remaining 11 players are non-town.  

[Ace]

FYI

 

Hallia has played get behind the Ape. Ace is wut? Smash is playing like scum, who think CTM is wolf leader. CTM's train looks chock-full-of-dirty. So, the question becomes, who else has been nudging his train today - saying things like 'he makes sense as a convert' without joining the train? Also, when I voted him on and off earlier, did anyone quickly pile up behind me? I remember AVM throwing down a quick vote on CTM after I did, and then unvoting him almost as quickly... and then he sort of made believe he was "doing something" with those actions.

 

That's all I can recall. 

 

I'm not sure why CTM is talking out of both sides of his mouth and I honestly can't tell if his paranoia about conversions is real or fake, I'm leaning fake because he's usually more pragmatic and less weepy vageen than this. That said, he has the potential to be a giant twat at the flip of a switch in these games, so this cannot be discounted.

 

I'm at a place where I'd vote Hallia, Ace, or Verbal if we are CL hunting. I'd go with Smash if we want a guarantee that we are at least lynching a bad guy. If the numbers are what I think they are, then Smash might be the final scum, which would eliminate scum NKs and also be a means of saving townie numbers - this seems to have been overlooked mostly. This could be just as relevant and important to extending the game as lynching the CL.

 

It's actually pretty difficult to keep up with who you think is non-Town. You're voting for Verbal (???), but think myself, Halia, Dan, aren't Town, CTM is scummy, and threw dirt at Nyn. This isn't making sense. At the very least, it doesn't seem like you even considered Hess could be CL with CTM as the Town player on the Dan wagon I got results from.

 

 

The lion doesn't worry about the opinions of a sheep

 

Also, the King doesn't concern himself with the opinions of a peasant. But yea, go go Tywin.

 

Me either, and the ape knows this. Yet he is running with this idiot stalling argument as another gotcha case, the fact that he doesn't seem to care who the other staller is (you, hallia, what's the difference) should tell you all you need to know. He doesn't care about the supposed stalling, he is just using it to try and lynch me

 

Noted. He's arguing with you but voting Verbal. Then he complains about people not sacking up to push through a lynch when it would have been easier for him to vote on you or Hallia's wagon, the latter who he thinks is scummy. 

[Verbal]

I did call him out for the same stuff, so did other people, which is usually what precipitates a teammate - especially one as valuable as a CL - bussing him. If the cult viewed him as an inevitable loss, then bussing him is a no-brainer. You know the theory is accurate - I may not be right - but you can't argue the bussing logic is wrong, and it is actually pinging a LOT that you are playing this off as a non-consideration. A townie mindset would know exactly what I'm saying here.

 

There's nothing hypocritical about what I'm saying either, I'm obviousnly not the CL. My premise is that the CL bussing Wombat is a good gambit. Again, this shouldn't be lost on you or CTM, but it seems to be.

 

Vote Verbal

 

Theory at first, bolstered by your counter points paying no consideration to townie point of view or logic.

 

But you could be bussing, too.  See how that works?  You can't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

 

 

 

 

Because if, as you say, Verb was CL then at the time they had 3 members and knew they had at least one more conversion coming the next day.  You don't go for the "win fantastic or die trying" when you're winning and have a chance to get stronger the next day.

 

What if you had another shot?  Or someone else did?  And they shot JVoY right then and there and he flips town.  Then Verb runs the risk of getting lynched and not being able to convert next day.

 

This is the kind of simple logic that flies right over the Ape's head.  He's drowning himself out again - funny how he says he'll stop doing this every game......but here we are. 

 

 

 

 

Me thinks AVM is showing his ass here. AVM is doing that dirty dance of scum getting heat... he's taking everything I say and trying to spin it as me being scummy, but his point of view on what is compelling me shows a lack of him empathizing with town. He knows I'm not wolf, he knows I"m not scum.... but he's got to make me sound scummy so people don't listen.

 

You and Verbal wolfpack?

 

It is definitely possible (and likely) that AVM is white-knighting me right now.  Glad you aren't falling for that at least.

 

 

 

 

That's the point - him misusing the LD affords him the excuse and benefit of the doubt that he is probably town and just booted his role. I wouldn't have shot him then and there. The excuse for him being wrong, if JVOR flipped town, was built in to the horrible use of the LD.

 

I like how you keep taking shots at me screwing up the LD role.  So, here it is.  I already admitted to that....BUT.....I still caught scum.  Results matter.

 

--You shot a townie.

 

Therefore, you can eat a bag of dicks.

 

--I lead the lynch on Wombat, who was wolf.  You are having a faggy slapfight with CTM.

 

Therefore, you can kindly GFY.

 

 

You can't possible be any more hypocritical and swingy than you've been.  Either a sure sign of conversion, or you've completely lost it.

[Verbal]

*possibly