SenorGato Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 There's nothing to hedge. You can trade for or sign whoever you want. If you can't draft, it always catches up to you. Why do you think we're in the position we're in now? Rex's pre-season SB goals/promises/words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 There's nothing to hedge. You can trade for or sign whoever you want. If you can't draft, it always catches up to you. Why do you think we're in the position we're in now? Sanchez tattoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 but we didn't sign a corner !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 There's nothing to hedge. You can trade for or sign whoever you want. If you can't draft, it always catches up to you. Why do you think we're in the position we're in now? I mostly agree. However, Idzik has been especially conservative. But let me be clear. I love Idzik's strategy. At first I was mad about it - but after learning about carrying forward the cap and more about his signings, I think he will build a very good football team. The best way to find 5 or 6 guys in the draft that can really help you is to draft 12 of them, not draft 5. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'll be excited when they're in the Super Bowl. For now you give the guy his fair shot to run the organization as he sees fit. As boring as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Tannenbaum sucked. I think we all get that. I love all the draft picks, but otherwise, I'm not completely sold that the opposite of Tannenbaum in free agency is the way to go. Seemed like there might be a little middle ground there. Idzik may not say mini-draft, but he must be thinking it. Right? Signing the premier WR FA this season, who was regarded as potentially the best FA QB and a solid RT could be considered middle ground. We locked up Folk and kept some of the better depth FA's as well. He also made some splashes with who we lost as well. Sanchez, Cro, Howard Not exactly a nothing offseason imo. and it's not over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 A starter at CB would've gone a long way with me. Seems like they settled on Colon after not landing anyone at guard, and didn't even settle at CB after releasing Cro. Didn't even sniff at a safety when their secondary was one of the worst in the league last year. I don't know. I get the value-based shopping. I haven't bought a new car since 1987. I'm not sure how this $27M in cap space figures moving forward, either, when they have to spend a certain percentage of the cap in the next couple years. I'm not against the guy or anything. Like I said, I love all the draft picks. I just haven't drunk the kool-aid at the cult of Idzik party, yet. People seem to be inferring some philosophy, convinced he's got this plan and it's going to play out at some future time. I'm gonna wait until I start seeing it actually play out before subscribing, that's all. Join us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Plenty of the guys that are considered "flashy free agents" around here would not count towards comp picks. Desean Jackson, Revis, Steven Smith, Miles Austin, Demarcus Ware, Jared Allen were cut. Those guys do not count towards comp picks at all. One thing that might explain is why he let his own guys test the market. They might get something back for Howard, though I doubt he sniffs offsetting Decker. Cro, Holmes and Sanchez won't net us sh*t cause they were all overpaid and cut. I think there's a good chance Decker and Howard cancel each other out. Howard got $6M per year with $15M in guarantees ($8M paid in 2014) Decker got $7M per with $15M in guarantees ($10M paid in 2014). I think the only way Decker is deemed too valuable to be canceled out by Howard is if he gets 1200+ yards & 12+ TDs and/or if Howard misses most of the season with an injury. Decker and Breno were UFAs. I think Vick might have been as well (I read that his last 2 years were options the team chose not to exercise; if so, I don't know that it's the same as cutting him from a "true UFA" vs "just-cut UFA" standpoint). That's 3 UFAs from other teams that we've signed (2 for sure). Unless we lost at least 1 more than that, we're not getting anything. And the Jets didn't have 4 UFAs sign elsewhere who were worthy enough to be considered using the secret formula. Howard, definitely. Cro doesn't count since we cut him. Ditto Sanchez. Ditto Holmes when someone finally takes a shot on him. So other than Howard, I can't think of another offhand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Tannenbaum sucked. I think we all get that. I love all the draft picks, but otherwise, I'm not completely sold that the opposite of Tannenbaum in free agency is the way to go. Seemed like there might be a little middle ground there. Idzik may not say mini-draft, but he must be thinking it. Right? The complete opposite of Tannenbaum does not sign the #1 WR in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I think there's a good chance Decker and Howard cancel each other out. Howard got $6M per year with $15M in guarantees ($8M paid in 2014) Decker got $7M per with $15M in guarantees ($10M paid in 2014). I think the only way Decker is deemed too valuable to be canceled out by Howard is if he gets 1200+ yards & 12+ TDs and/or if Howard misses most of the season with an injury. Decker and Breno were UFAs. I think Vick might have been as well (I read that his last 2 years were options the team chose not to exercise; if so, I don't know that it's the same as cutting him from a "true UFA" vs "just-cut UFA" standpoint). That's 3 UFAs from other teams that we've signed (2 for sure). Unless we lost at least 1 more than that, we're not getting anything. And the Jets didn't have 4 UFAs sign elsewhere who were worthy enough to be considered using the secret formula. Howard, definitely. Cro doesn't count since we cut him. Ditto Sanchez. Ditto Holmes when someone finally takes a shot on him. So other than Howard, I can't think of another offhand. Yeah. I have said before that I think you work the compensatory pick strategy in alternate years. You load up on FAs one year because they won't take any picks away and the other you try to be careful to pull in an extra pick or two. The other thing that works with this strategy is short deals. Comp picks are the one place where a 1 year contract adds value compared to a contract with cuttable years on the back end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 drfat or we will trade picks for one.. idzik (forget what woody says) is eyeing 2016 as year Jets make playoffs and make them for many many years after that. 2015 would be icing on cakeThis is where I disagree. Teams don't need 3 years to get to the playoffs anymore. Signing a mid tier DB or two to a short term contract won't hurt the cap for future years. This would allow any draft picks to develop while improving the roster and chances of making the playoffs. Seems like a no brainer to me. A trade would be fine, but of course you are giving up those precious draft picks that are needed to build the team. It would have made more sense to sign mid tier guys here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 This is where I disagree. Teams don't need 3 years to get to the playoffs anymore. Signing a mid tier DB or two to a short term contract won't hurt the cap for future years. This would allow any draft picks to develop while improving the roster and chances of making the playoffs. Seems like a no brainer to me. A trade would be fine, but of course you are giving up those precious draft picks that are needed to build the team. It would have made more sense to sign mid tier guys here. I mean a team thats playoffs and SB run worthy, ,not 9-7, 10-6 on road WC team 2016 for that, but I think we could make playoffs this year, but we wont have a legit SB run in us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Yeah. I have said before that I think you work the compensatory pick strategy in alternate years. You load up on FAs one year because they won't take any picks away and the other you try to be careful to pull in an extra pick or two. The other thing that works with this strategy is short deals. Comp picks are the one place where a 1 year contract adds value compared to a contract with cuttable years on the back end. I don't think you get credit toward comp picks for losing a guy on a one-year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Isn't it amazing how all the former NFL GMs are praising Idzik's strategy while all of the GMs on here are bashing his strategy? The current GMs are certainly laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 The current GMs are certainly laughing. You think that because you think you know how to be a GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 You think that because you think you know how to be a GM Nope but we are sitting on $32 million with many glaring needs. Im sure they don't think Idzik is a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Nope but we are sitting on $32 million with many glaring needs. Im sure they don't think Idzik is a genius. Maybe he's waiting to spend it, you know, next year. There are other seasons past 2014. And GMs some probably don't, but what are you gonna do? When we improve greatly in the next few seasons I'm sure you'll change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpartanJet Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 When will people understand Idzik doesn't care one bit about Wrecks and I'm sure either Wrecks will be gone or idzik will be (because of woody's incompetence). Why spend big on free agent patches when a new coach is coming next year and will not require the next 5 seasons of first round draft picks to make a decent defense. He will have more money to work with next year (than if he tried to fix this ship coached by a buffoon) and will be able to help out his new coach with new parts he might not have had the flexibility to do if we spent more this season. Its simple but some just can't see it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 When will people understand Idzik doesn't care one bit about Wrecks and I'm sure either Wrecks will be gone or idzik will be (because of woody's incompetence). Why spend big on free agent patches when a new coach is coming next year and will not require the next 5 seasons of first round draft picks to make a decent defense. He will have more money to work with next year (than if he tried to fix this ship coached by a buffoon) and will be able to help out his new coach with new parts he might not have had the flexibility to do if we spent more this season. Its simple but some just can't see it I guess. I would love to see how someone completely deviod of logical thought actually functions in everyday life. John Idzik does not have the luxury to tank anu seasons. He's two losing seasons away from being out of a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I mean a team thats playoffs and SB run worthy, ,not 9-7, 10-6 on road WC team 2016 for that, but I think we could make playoffs this year, but we wont have a legit SB run in us. You never know what will happen when you make the playoffs. The Giants were a 9-7 SB team. Who could have envisioned the Jets making the AFC Champ game in year 1 of Rex? That's why I'm upset that Idz didn't get at least a mid tier CB and/or S, or another WR on short term contracts). It wouldn't have hurt the cap and the team would be in much better shape. Getting a mid tier of each wouldn't even have hurt the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 A starter at CB would've gone a long way with me. Seems like they settled on Colon after not landing anyone at guard, and didn't even settle at CB after releasing Cro. Didn't even sniff at a safety when their secondary was one of the worst in the league last year. I don't know. I get the value-based shopping. I haven't bought a new car since 1987. I'm not sure how this $27M in cap space figures moving forward, either, when they have to spend a certain percentage of the cap in the next couple years. I'm not against the guy or anything. Like I said, I love all the draft picks. I just haven't drunk the kool-aid at the cult of Idzik party, yet. People seem to be inferring some philosophy, convinced he's got this plan and it's going to play out at some future time. I'm gonna wait until I start seeing it actually play out before subscribing, that's all. I do not think it is a cult. 'Wait and see' is not a cult. It is a hope that he is doing the right thing and the willingness to take a different approach and see what happens. Jet fans have always been long-suffering, but they have never been patient. Let's try patient. That is not cultish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 You never know what will happen when you make the playoffs. The Giants were a 9-7 SB team. Who could have envisioned the Jets making the AFC Champ game in year 1 of Rex? That's why I'm upset that Idz didn't get at least a mid tier CB and/or S, or another WR on short term contracts). It wouldn't have hurt the cap and the team would be in much better shape. Getting a mid tier of each wouldn't even have hurt the cap. Mid-tier CB, check. Another WR on short term contract, check. Still upset? I bet you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Mid-tier CB, check. Another WR on short term contract, check. Still upset? I bet you are. I'm not one who is complaining about everything that Idz does, so no need to be a wise a$$. That being said, Ford is hardly a mid tier player. He may not even make the final roster depending who they draft. Patterson I don't know much about, and from what I've read thus far mixed reactions as to quality. I'm glad someone was signed that may actually be starter material (depending on injuries) and not just depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Tannenbaum sucked. I think we all get that. I love all the draft picks, but otherwise, I'm not completely sold that the opposite of Tannenbaum in free agency is the way to go. Seemed like there might be a little middle ground there. Idzik may not say mini-draft, but he must be thinking it. Right? Tannenbaum built a team that went to consecutive AFC Championship games. He made 3 really egregious mistakes with contracts to Sanchez, Holmes, and Harris. Everything else really wasn't that bad. I could have done without the Tebow fiasco and Wayne Hunter but all in all that wasn't his undoing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 When will people understand Idzik doesn't care one bit about Wrecks and I'm sure either Wrecks will be gone or idzik will be (because of woody's incompetence). Why spend big on free agent patches when a new coach is coming next year and will not require the next 5 seasons of first round draft picks to make a decent defense. He will have more money to work with next year (than if he tried to fix this ship coached by a buffoon) and will be able to help out his new coach with new parts he might not have had the flexibility to do if we spent more this season. Its simple but some just can't see it I guess. Is this an April Fool's joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 A starter at CB would've gone a long way with me. Seems like they settled on Colon after not landing anyone at guard, and didn't even settle at CB after releasing Cro. Didn't even sniff at a safety when their secondary was one of the worst in the league last year. I don't know. I get the value-based shopping. I haven't bought a new car since 1987. I'm not sure how this $27M in cap space figures moving forward, either, when they have to spend a certain percentage of the cap in the next couple years. I know this isn't what season ticket holders want to hear, but I think he realizes that it's pointless to not roll over what he can into next season when both Brady and Peyton will be one step closer to retirement. Considering our situation at QB and what the options were, it looks like he's still considering this another transition season. Which IMO is completely reasonable, even though the NFL is a different animal when it comes to rebuilding in the eyes of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoandtheJets Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 My opinion Jets hired a really bad talent evaluator in John Idzik. Only signed 2 significant pieces Decker at WR and Giacomini at RT. Patterson & Ford are not so good signings both are injury prone from what I read in the news. Mike Tannenbaum might have made stupid decisions but atleast he signed pieces to the jets puzzle. Idzik has to be the worst general manager I have seen as a jets fan all that money under the cap & they spend it rarely. what is he waiting for. They still need a #1 WR & a CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I know this isn't what season ticket holders want to hear, but I think he realizes that it's pointless to not roll over what he can into next season when both Brady and Peyton will be one step closer to retirement. Considering our situation at QB and what the options were, it looks like he's still considering this another transition season. Which IMO is completely reasonable, even though the NFL is a different animal when it comes to rebuilding in the eyes of fans. How does Vick fit into this plan? My opinion Jets hired a really bad talent evaluator in John Idzik. Only signed 2 significant pieces Decker at WR and Giacomini at RT. Patterson & Ford are not so good signings both are injury prone from what I read in the news. Mike Tannenbaum might have made stupid decisions but atleast he signed pieces to the jets puzzle. Idzik has to be the worst general manager I have seen as a jets fan all that money under the cap & they spend it rarely. what is he waiting for. They still need a #1 WR & a CB Can they play a game before you decide he is a bad talent evaluator? I mean you read the news and all, but maybe see how some of these guys perform in a game? In the fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 He's waiting for talented free agents that are worth spending $$ on. This wasn't a great free agent class. The Jets did get the best WR in free agency. Just because you have $$ to spend doesn't mean you spend it on the best available CB - he may not be that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 How does Vick fit into this plan? My guess is that, in Idzik's eyes, he's the safety net for the season in case Geno plays anything like he did last year and/or whatever rookie we draft isn't ready. God knows how he fits into whatever Rex thinks he has going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 My opinion Jets hired a really bad talent evaluator in John Idzik. Only signed 2 significant pieces Decker at WR and Giacomini at RT. Patterson & Ford are not so good signings both are injury prone from what I read in the news. Mike Tannenbaum might have made stupid decisions but atleast he signed pieces to the jets puzzle. Idzik has to be the worst general manager I have seen as a jets fan all that money under the cap & they spend it rarely. what is he waiting for. They still need a #1 WR & a CB So to be clear, you're defending Tanny, who got 7 years on the job and saw the team completely fall apart on his watch, while also going into a complete cap disaster, before being fired. Yet after only one year, a year in which Idzik improved what was supposed to be the league's worst team while saddled with a number of horrible players and even worse contracts, has already been deemed the worst GM you have seen? Surely you can't be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPT1974 Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Really the guy clearly does not know what he is doing. As John I needs to be on the ball or he will be out looking at another job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix_Jet Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Woody said w all the money he's saving, he'll be giving refunds on those PSL's that sucker, I mean "fans" bought as investments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I do not think it is a cult. 'Wait and see' is not a cult. It is a hope that he is doing the right thing and the willingness to take a different approach and see what happens. Jet fans have always been long-suffering, but they have never been patient. Let's try patient. That is not cultish. That's where I'm at with Idzik. Purely wait and see. There are, however, a number of folks who have completely bought into our new GM. People who seem to be projecting what they think is a good philosophy onto him, and able to do that because he continues to be something of a blank slate. I know this isn't what season ticket holders want to hear, but I think he realizes that it's pointless to not roll over what he can into next season when both Brady and Peyton will be one step closer to retirement. Considering our situation at QB and what the options were, it looks like he's still considering this another transition season. Which IMO is completely reasonable, even though the NFL is a different animal when it comes to rebuilding in the eyes of fans. I'm going to have to learn how this rollover cap money thing vs. having to spend a percentage of the cap works. I suspect Mr. Idzik has a significantly better grasp of it than I currently do. Lol. The thing is he's got a head coach essentially on a one year show-me deal, who's obviously coaching for his job, and he's done very little to date to improve upon a roster most people thought was a significant loser going into last season. If your theory is true, it's the second year in a row in which the GM and head coach have much different priorities. I think I'd prefer they be on the same page. Decker for Holmes and Vick (I grudgingly admit) for Sanchez are pretty clear improvements. Cromartie for Patterson? Giacomini for Howard? Not so much. I recognize that I'm hung up on the CB thing, but that's a clear position where there were a lot of good players on the market who could've helped the team. I'd much rather've signed Browner or Thurmond for a little more than what they paid Patterson. Obviously, he's leaning on the draft. That's his bread and butter. He did well with his two first rounders last year, this year his first pick comes later than both of those. Twelve picks is an exciting prospect, but he needs to hit a couple of those mid-rounders out of the park this year - especially with more than half of those 12 picks coming in the fourth and sixth rounds. If he can do that, he'll look pretty smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 I'm going to have to learn how this rollover cap money thing vs. having to spend a percentage of the cap works. I suspect Mr. Idzik has a significantly better grasp of it than I currently do. Lol. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/116713/inside-slant-salary-cap-carryover-numbers The thing is he's got a head coach essentially on a one year show-me deal, who's obviously coaching for his job, and he's done very little to date to improve upon a roster most people thought was a significant loser going into last season. If your theory is true, it's the second year in a row in which the GM and head coach have much different priorities. I think I'd prefer they be on the same page. Decker for Holmes and Vick (I grudgingly admit) for Sanchez are pretty clear improvements. Cromartie for Patterson? Giacomini for Howard? Not so much. I recognize that I'm hung up on the CB thing, but that's a clear position where there were a lot of good players on the market who could've helped the team. I'd much rather've signed Browner or Thurmond for a little more than what they paid Patterson. I don't think it's a show-me deal at all. It's been 5 years. We know what we have with Rex and he probably isn't in the long term plans. But the team has to stay competitive, and Rex is good enough on that end to keep things interesting while things get rebuilt. Obviously, he's leaning on the draft. That's his bread and butter. He did well with his two first rounders last year, this year his first pick comes later than both of those. Twelve picks is an exciting prospect, but he needs to hit a couple of those mid-rounders out of the park this year - especially with more than half of those 12 picks coming in the fourth and sixth rounds. If he can do that, he'll look pretty smart. I think he already does. He has seven picks in the first five rounds of what is pretty much the deepest draft ever. That didn't happen by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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