Villain The Foe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Building up arm strength is a very conditional thing. It's not like Bridgewater's problems where you just need to fix his footwork for driving anything 40+, and you can rely on everything under 40 yards to get you by during the transition. In Fales' instance it is going to take some time. Hence his grade. I can see your point here. From the neck up I like what I see from Fales and I hope we draft him in the mid rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I can see your point here. From the neck up I like what I see from Fales and I hope we draft him in the mid rounds. I like Falas a lot. He's probably the smartest quarterback in the draft and considering what we've had under center for the past five seasons it would really be nice to have someone that knows how to go through progressions. The problem is that it's hard to justify spending a first or second rounder on a quarterback that you're not sure you can play until 2016 at the earliest (if you're lucky). I think at the very least he's going to have a long career as a very good backup simply because of how smart he is. I don't see him busting out completely in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I like Falas a lot. He's probably the smartest quarterback in the draft and considering what we've had under center for the past five seasons it would really be nice to have someone that knows how to go through progressions. The problem is that it's hard to justify spending a first or second rounder on a quarterback that you're not sure you can play until 2016 at the earliest (if you're lucky). I think at the very least he's going to have a long career as a very good backup simply because of how smart he is. I don't see him busting out completely in any way. +1 on Fales but Jeff Matthews is the smartest QB in the draft. Fales is a better prospect anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 It's a plus arm. The question with Manziel has always been whether or not he'll be able to figure out how the NFL works. I'm of the opinion that he will simply because he was under an insane amount of scrutiny this past season and he still delivered under the lights. But I think it became very obvious this past year that he was capable of making all the throws. It's actually pretty crazy, at least in my observations, how underrated both Bridgewater and Manziel have become. They're both very good quarterback prospects by most of the standards, and the areas in which either are lacking are entirely coachable. I've voiced my displeasure for Manziel quite frequently over the last couple years, but it's based on him being drafted in the first round with hopes of immediate stardom. His style of play that I witnessed (and yes my sample-size is only the two games against LSU and a handful of others) does not seem conducive to instant success in the NFL, I think he would benefit greatly from sitting behind someone like Hoyer for a year and learning not to leave the pocket early. However, there's almost no way he's allowed to sit wherever he is drafted. He reminds me of a smaller Romo and I just am leery of him winning games with his arm, from the pocket. We certainly shall see and his story is going to be a very interesting one this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've voiced my displeasure for Manziel quite frequently over the last couple years, but it's based on him being drafted in the first round with hopes of immediate stardom. His style of play that I witnessed (and yes my sample-size is only the two games against LSU and a handful of others) does not seem conducive to instant success in the NFL, I think he would benefit greatly from sitting behind someone like Hoyer for a year and learning not to leave the pocket early. However, there's almost no way he's allowed to sit wherever he is drafted. He reminds me of a smaller Romo and I just am leery of him winning games with his arm, from the pocket. We certainly shall see and his story is going to be a very interesting one this season. But Bridgewater's does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 But Bridgewater's does? No, but I was only discussing Manziel at the moment. I've been saying since the regular season that I wouldn't draft any of these quarterbacks in the first and still feel that way, I just don't care for any of them. That's not to say some of them won't turn out to be good pros, I just don't personally like any of them enough to do so. I also said that Mettenberger was my favorite QB in the draft since a while back, as that's the type of QB that I personally like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I just think of Manziel as the obnoxiously arrogant star QB of some horrible TV show somewhere. That's most of what I have against him. Even if it were true it's not as if it actually matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've voiced my displeasure for Manziel quite frequently over the last couple years, but it's based on him being drafted in the first round with hopes of immediate stardom. His style of play that I witnessed (and yes my sample-size is only the two games against LSU and a handful of others) does not seem conducive to instant success in the NFL, I think he would benefit greatly from sitting behind someone like Hoyer for a year and learning not to leave the pocket early. However, there's almost no way he's allowed to sit wherever he is drafted. He reminds me of a smaller Romo and I just am leery of him winning games with his arm, from the pocket. We certainly shall see and his story is going to be a very interesting one this season. Completely agree. He's definitely best off, at least early in his career, being in a spread offense where the QB is a bigger part of the ground game. He can be coached into being more of a pocket passer but that is going to take a considerable amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I like Falas a lot. He's probably the smartest quarterback in the draft and considering what we've had under center for the past five seasons it would really be nice to have someone that knows how to go through progressions. The problem is that it's hard to justify spending a first or second rounder on a quarterback that you're not sure you can play until 2016 at the earliest (if you're lucky). I think at the very least he's going to have a long career as a very good backup simply because of how smart he is. I don't see him busting out completely in any way. I wouldn't spend a 1st or 2nd rounder on him at all based on the fact that we have a 2nd rounder in Geno and just gave vick 5 million a couple weeks ago. Even so, Fales will more than likely be available in the 3rd/4th round. I feel that we need to draft a QB every year until we hit. If Fales is there in the 4th round we need to use one of the picks on him. If the draft falls our way in the 1st & 2nd rounds and we feel that he may not be available going into the 4th round then I feel he's even worth a 3rd rounder given that we have 12 picks to deal with anyway. We all know that Matt Simms isn't going to get an opportunity to start here unless both QB's get hurt. Why not get a guy who could possibly be a legit #2 now and let him compete with Simms? If I'm correct Vick is on a one year deal. You free up 5 million next year and mold your long term #2 guy/possibly #1 guy now while you let Geno and Vick compete for a job. If Geno wins or loses the competition doesn't matter, If the Jets fall short this year given QB play then we're probably going to spend a high draft pick for a QB next year, once again having to rely on a rookie to learn everything and win now. Get Fales, acclimate him to the system and if Geno/Vick don't work out you just gave Fales an entire year in a system and to get into NFL form. I feel like this guy could be a Nick Foles type, a guy who we drafted because we seen the potential but gave him time to acclimate behind the guys you currently have. If Geno works out then great...If he doesn't then you know you have a guy on your roster that's you've developed behind the scenes that shows promise. Even outside of his physical ability and his smarts, Im hearing that this kid is extremely coachable and is a professional in that regard. This is something that Marty could also use, not some big name 1st or 2nd round spoiled QB with high expectations and a loftiness about himself. <<<<Thats not a shot to Geno by the way. Im generally speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I just think of Manziel as the obnoxiously arrogant star QB of some horrible TV show somewhere. That's most of what I have against him. Even if it were true it's not as if it actually matters. Manziel is an unbearable douchebag. But his teammates follow and the guy had a really great season under a huge microscope. Couple that with the fact that the physicals check out and I can deal with him tweeting Drake lyrics. That said part of me is secretly hoping that he gets drafted to Cleveland because **** him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Manziel is an unbearable douchebag. But his teammates follow and the guy had a really great season under a huge microscope. Couple that with the fact that the physicals check out and I can deal with the fact that he tweets Drake lyrics. Part of me is secretly hoping that he gets drafted to Cleveland because **** him. Schefter says Manziel isn't in play for Houston but that seems like a lie. They have to take a quarterback. They have to. They don't have one. Taking a quarterback means passing over Clowney. Which in the grand scheme probably isn't that big a deal because Romeo is a doofus and will waste him but you still have to sell the move in the short term and I dunno how you do that besides Manziel. Somebody like Oakland where they're on thin ice already makes sense for Bridgewater. Either a whole lot needs to go right for them to get another year or they can just guess right on the quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Schefter says Manziel isn't in play for Houston but that seems like a lie. They have to take a quarterback. They have to. They don't have one. Taking a quarterback means passing over Clowney. Which in the grand scheme probably isn't that big a deal because Romeo is a doofus and will waste him but you still have to sell the move in the short term and I dunno how you do that besides Manziel. Somebody like Oakland where they're on thin ice already makes sense for Bridgewater. Either a whole lot needs to go right for them to get another year or they can just guess right on the quarterback. I think passing on Clowney is batsh*t bonkers insane but I get it. In choosing between the two, I dunno, O'Brien seems like a no bullsh*t dude who doesn't play that game. Bridgewater hitting in his workouts obviously would have made the choice a lot easier, but yeah, the problem is both are pretty much grading out the same and they couldn't be more different as prospects. Dartboard central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThisYearsModel Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Amazing that Teddy Bridgewater, a consensus (not perennial) #1 pick only a few months ago is now sliding down the first round...If he is available at #18, do you think The Jets Take him? Personally, I would try and trade back for more picks but in lieu of that, if Bridewater is the BAP, you take him. LL Ni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Schefter says Manziel isn't in play for Houston but that seems like a lie. They have to take a quarterback. They have to. They don't have one. Taking a quarterback means passing over Clowney. Which in the grand scheme probably isn't that big a deal because Romeo is a doofus and will waste him but you still have to sell the move in the short term and I dunno how you do that besides Manziel. Somebody like Oakland where they're on thin ice already makes sense for Bridgewater. Either a whole lot needs to go right for them to get another year or they can just guess right on the quarterback. I believed this for several months. However they are a risk adverse organization and Clowney is the easy, gutless pick. Not to mention Bob McNair, the owner, is a proud South Carolina Gamecock . If it were my franchise I'd take a QB. but these guys are gonna take the DE and try to get lucky with McCarron or some other bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I believed this for several months. However they are a risk adverse organization and Clowney is the easy, gutless pick. Not to mention Bob McNair, the owner, is a proud South Carolina Gamecock . If it were my franchise I'd take a QB. but these guys are gonna take the DE and try to get lucky with McCarron or some other bum. Who was the last non sure thing QB to go first overall that turned out to be the right pick? Go with the stud...either Clowney, Robinson or Sammy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Who was the last non sure thing QB to go first overall that turned out to be the right pick? Go with the stud...either Clowney, Robinson or Sammy. Last year the Chiefs took a "stud" at 1 overall and the guy had a rough year. There are no guarantees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Last year the Chiefs took a "stud" at 1 overall and the guy had a rough year. There are no guarantees. FIsher being a stud is debatable, but these non sure thing QB's that go early tend to be the wrong pick. I just dont see the upside in Teddy or Bortles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 FIsher being a stud is debatable, but these non sure thing QB's that go early tend to be the wrong pick. I just dont see the upside in Teddy or Bortles. Manziel is going the highest. Probably not at 1 but he's going to be the first taken. The upside of Manziel is easier to see, especially in a year where Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Manziel is going the highest. Probably not at 1 but he's going to be the first taken. The upside of Manziel is easier to see, especially in a year where Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl. I'd take him over Teddy and Bortles for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've voiced my displeasure for Manziel quite frequently over the last couple years, but it's based on him being drafted in the first round with hopes of immediate stardom. His style of play that I witnessed (and yes my sample-size is only the two games against LSU and a handful of others) does not seem conducive to instant success in the NFL, I think he would benefit greatly from sitting behind someone like Hoyer for a year and learning not to leave the pocket early. However, there's almost no way he's allowed to sit wherever he is drafted. He reminds me of a smaller Romo and I just am leery of him winning games with his arm, from the pocket. We certainly shall see and his story is going to be a very interesting one this season. Does it matter if a QB doesn't stay in the pocket? Other than the statues like Manning, Ryan, Flacco, and Brady, most of the QBs today have success getting outside the pocket. Rapistburger has made an entire career out of throwing downfield on broken plays. Guys like Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, are run/pass threats and even Aaron Rodgers makes a ton of plays while on the run. Being able to extend drives and make first downs by scrambling is huge in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 risk adverse Fancy terms fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Manziel is going the highest. Probably not at 1 but he's going to be the first taken. The upside of Manziel is easier to see, especially in a year where Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl. The upside of Manziel is that you know he really doesn't give two sh*ts about pressure and he can handle playing in front of Texas nutjobs. The wildcard for Houston is O'Brien and I think he wants Bridgewater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenoandtheJets Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 No they need more offense players & WRs so pick that at #18. Plus the Jets have 2 QBs that can play Geno Smith & Michael Vick. Pick Marqise Lee or Odell Beckham at wide receiver. It makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latinlawyer Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 O'Brien is a QB guru. I think that they take Clowney #1 andthen wait to round 2-4 to take a QB that O'Brien can shape into an effective game manager. LL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Might as well get it out there now....Winston's not going in the first round next year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Might as well get it out there now....Winston's not going in the first round next year either. I don't think he's even eligible to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I don't think he's even eligible to. He'll be a redshirt sophomore in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 He'll be a redshirt sophomore in 2014. gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Bridgewater has one of the best record/stats of any draft eligible qb over the last 5 years against top 10 and top 50 defenses. If he is there at 18 you draft him and hope geno is lights out in preseason so you have the amazing problem of two amazing young qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolot Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Might as well get it out there now....Winston's not going in the first round next year either.i may get fried for this cuz I know a lot of people on this board love him but watching 3 or 4 games of his last year he looks slow and fat to me most of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Does it matter if a QB doesn't stay in the pocket? Other than the statues like Manning, Ryan, Flacco, and Brady, most of the QBs today have success getting outside the pocket. Rapistburger has made an entire career out of throwing downfield on broken plays. Guys like Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, are run/pass threats and even Aaron Rodgers makes a ton of plays while on the run. Being able to extend drives and make first downs by scrambling is huge in the NFL. A QB having success outside the pocket does not bother me at all. What bothers me about Manziel, is that a large fraction of his game was predicated on doing so, often with no indication. Some will point to a porous offensive line, which caused him to leave prematurely, however from the number of games I saw, there were times that he had a clean pocket and bailed way before he had to. I know it's only a two game sample size, but when LSU was completely able to neuter him from leaving the pocket, he looked mediocre at best. Every NFL team is going to have the speed and discipline to keep him from running all over the field like he did, not to mention the punishment he'll take. I think his best bet is to sit, learn how to play within himself and utilize the arm and accuracy that many are high on from the pocket and learn to leave only when required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Bridgewater has one of the best record/stats of any draft eligible qb over the last 5 years against top 10 and top 50 defenses. If he is there at 18 you draft him and hope geno is lights out in preseason so you have the amazing problem of two amazing young qbs. I agree. I think you have to take him. If we're going on the premise that we trust Idzik to forego certain free agents with proven ability to play in the NFL because we trust Idzik (and Idzik trusts himself) to draft well and fill the roster that way, then we can certainly trust him to find talent with his eleven other picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I agree. I think you have to take him. If we're going on the premise that we trust Idzik to forego certain free agents with proven ability to play in the NFL because we trust Idzik (and Idzik trusts himself) to draft well and fill the roster that way, then we can certainly trust him to find talent with his eleven other picks. Also, if we're truly going long term you hope geno does very well in the preseason and see if we can get a first + second for him in the next draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Fancy terms fail. i just got this. Risk averse. Not Adverse. This was a real blind spot for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 O'Brien is a QB guru. I think that they take Clowney #1 andthen wait to round 2-4 to take a QB that O'Brien can shape into an effective game manager. LL Yes, because everyone dreams of having that effective game manager QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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