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If the Jets draft defense (RD 1) Tom Shane will hurt himself


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I was really hoping the Jets would pick up a WR.  But now that Tom Shane has declared he will hurt himself if they go defense, I am hoping for a shiny new CB.

 

Here is what Tom had to say this week on JetNation Radio:

 

If we go corner, if we go defense again in the first round, i’m going to hurt myself. I’m putting it out there on the air, We have got to stop, if the coach is a defensive mastermind you don’t need a first round pick at every position. he has to make a corner one of these days, go do that, make it Rex, make a corner. That’s what you are here for, the offense is putrid.

 

This confuses the issue for you right?  Are you conflicted now?  Offense would be great, but Tom hurting himself is something that benefits everyone.

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I was really hoping the Jets would pick up a WR.  But now that Tom Shane has declared he will hurt himself if they go defense, I am hoping for a shiny new CB.   Here is what Tom had to say this week

3 first rounders used on CBs in 5 years. REXTASTIC!!  

Doesn't T0m cut himself on a daily basis?  This hardly seems like news. 

That's too vague a threat for me to commit. If we're just talking gradual Cirrhosis, the corner will likely pay off before that.

 

Sometimes greed is a bad thing.  Tom hurting just makes me happy.  Even if it is just a small hurt.

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I get where t-Shane is coming from but to think we don't need to dramatically improve on D is wrong.

If we don't get a serious pass rush from the edges were 6-10...if we do get that pass rush, 10-6 is a possibility, IMO.

Are idzik and Rex gonna just hope coples comes through for them? Calvin pace is a nice piece, but C'MON MAN he ain't a game changer. We need OLBs that can wreck havoc, a safety, and much better play at CB. Milliner might have a high ceiling, but C'MON MAN, he absolutely sucked ass for 80% of the year.

We got Vick, decker, jacoby ford, Chris Johnson...that's improved enough. I'd be happy with B.Cooks or O.Beckham at 18, but they don't make us a playoff bubble team.

Improving the already-pretty-good DEFENSE with edge rushers, better safety and CB play makes us a bubble team.

Will serious edge rushers be there at 18? Doesn't look like it to me. I'm not a Barr FROM UCLA fan but he might be there. I've become infatuated w Calvin Pryor but not sure he's be there either. If they go defense in round 1, I believe that is smart and Tom Shane and others should re-think their position.

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Jets don't need Rex if the plan is to get 1st round picks at every defensive position. What value is he actually bringing to this team if we need to draft so many 1st round corners and DL to run his defense effectively? Just look at our team defensive ranks since Rex has been here vs. our team offensive ranks and it's obvious which side of the ball stops us from being a contending team. 

 

Idzik has shown that he's making the decisions so I'm hopeful, but BPA happens to be corner way too many times for this team.

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Pass rush will not dictate the fate of this team, not will having 3 first round corners. What will swing this team one way or the other is QB play. Right now whomever the QB is still doesn't have a lot to work with. Take the BPA in the first round, no doubt, but hope and pray it's a WR not named Lee.

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Our offense was putrid last year, but after that our next biggest short coming was defense versus the pass.  We have signed three offensive skilled players and done very little to address the pass defense.  A first round corner would not surprise me.

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Jets don't need Rex if the plan is to get 1st round picks at every defensive position. What value is he actually bringing to this team if we need to draft so many 1st round corners and DL to run his defense effectively? Just look at our team defensive ranks since Rex has been here vs. our team offensive ranks and it's obvious which side of the ball stops us from being a contending team. 

 

Idzik has shown that he's making the decisions so I'm hopeful, but BPA happens to be corner way too many times for this team.

Looking at the first round pick that way is really looking at things in a bubble. The team spent the vast majority of their free agent dollars on offense this year. They signed the top WR, arguably the top QB and RB, too. They added more speed in Jacoby Ford. They resigned Cumberland and Colon. They've invested in the offense in 2014.

I'm rooting for a WR, too, but if the Jets to CB at #18, or any other defensive player, I'll be content believing that Idzik took the BAP on his board there. People booed the Richardson pick last year, this website nearly burned down over it, but that pick seems to've worked out okay. If the Jets draft a Dennard, and he plays at a high level all season, I imagine we as fans will survive.

They'll get more offensive help in this draft. While I'd be shocked if they moved up in the first round, I wouldn't be too surprised if they moved up in the third to get a specific player. They brought in all the top TEs and all the top WRs minus Watkins. They fully intend to grab those positions. High.

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I was really hoping the Jets would pick up a WR.  But now that Tom Shane has declared he will hurt himself if they go defense, I am hoping for a shiny new CB.

 

Here is what Tom had to say this week on JetNation Radio:

 

If we go corner, if we go defense again in the first round, i’m going to hurt myself. I’m putting it out there on the air, We have got to stop, if the coach is a defensive mastermind you don’t need a first round pick at every position. he has to make a corner one of these days, go do that, make it Rex, make a corner. That’s what you are here for, the offense is putrid.

 

This confuses the issue for you right?  Are you conflicted now?  Offense would be great, but Tom hurting himself is something that benefits everyone.

tell him to stop using his Burner Phones from now on :(

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Also, if the best available player on Idzik's board happens to be defense, even if its a corner, I don't see why reaching for a player on offense makes much sense. 

 

Personally, I'm hoping Bridgewater slips and then Vick gets hurt in the offseason.  Like Tom is threatening to do.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Also, if the best available player on Idzik's board happens to be defense, even if its a corner, I don't see why reaching for a player on offense makes much sense.

We all know can not have enough players in the secondary with emphasis on passing in the NFL. 

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Looking at the first round pick that way is really looking at things in a bubble. The team spent the vast majority of their free agent dollars on offense this year. They signed the top WR, arguably the top QB and RB, too. They added more speed in Jacoby Ford. They resigned Cumberland and Colon. They've invested in the offense in 2014.

I'm rooting for a WR, too, but if the Jets to CB at #18, or any other defensive player, I'll be content believing that Idzik took the BAP on his board there. People booed the Richardson pick last year, this website nearly burned down over it, but that pick seems to've worked out okay. If the Jets draft a Dennard, and he plays at a high level all season, I imagine we as fans will survive.

They'll get more offensive help in this draft. While I'd be shocked if they moved up in the first round, I wouldn't be too surprised if they moved up in the third to get a specific player. They brought in all the top TEs and all the top WRs minus Watkins. They fully intend to grab those positions. High.

 

I'm much more amenable to a corner since they picked up Decker, but I'm still rooting for a WR because I love the talent in this year's draft. CB is a premium position so if you get a good guy through the draft that is obviously very valuable, the main problem I have with it for the Jets in general is that when Rex had a huge input in who we would be drafting, "BPA" for the Jets almost always happened to be a corner or DLineman to the detriment of ignoring a lot of other positions. That doesn't look like the case anymore so I'm expecting them to actually stick to a board they came up with since Idzik is extremely disciplined with his value assessments.

 

I also agree that they're definitely targeting WRs, CBs, and TEs based on who they had visits with.

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 I'm rooting for a WR, too, but if the Jets to CB at #18, or any other defensive player, I'll be content believing that Idzik took the BAP on his board there. People booed the Richardson pick last year, this website nearly burned down over it, but that pick seems to've worked out okay. If the Jets draft a Dennard, and he plays at a high level all season, I imagine we as fans will survive. 

 

 

this is the key point the Jets can't force a WR pick just because it's a need. This regime is all about drafting value. Whoever the Jets draft at 18, it will be a player that "should have gone earlier" 

 

who knows maybe the stars will align and Mike Evans falls to 18. 

 

but if he doesn't and the pick it happens to be a defensive player, so be it. It's not Rex's fault if all the good WR are gone by 18. 

 

Personally I'd rather they go best defense, Backham or Cooks, than a soft WR from USC or a UNC TE who can't catch.

Edited by bitonti
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We all know can not have enough players in the secondary with emphasis on passing in the NFL. 

 

You'll never have enough corners to cover everyone, its true.  But the easier way to deal with the problem is to load up with as many pass-rushers as possible.  Putting the QB in the turf (like we did to Brees last year) is the only sure-fire way to handle an elite passing attack.  No matter how many corners you get, good QB's will still find ways to pick you apart, especially if you can't at least rush their decisions.

 

Not to mention, the Seahawks with Idzik on staff found their current starting CBs in the 5th (Sherman) and 6th (Maxwell) rounds, respectively.  I'm all for drafting corners, but unless he's the best player on the board at the time you pick, you don't HAVE to get one in the 1st round.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Jets don't need Rex if the plan is to get 1st round picks at every defensive position. What value is he actually bringing to this team if we need to draft so many 1st round corners and DL to run his defense effectively? Just look at our team defensive ranks since Rex has been here vs. our team offensive ranks and it's obvious which side of the ball stops us from being a contending team.

 

You have to look at how this argument cuts the other way too, though. If we're better at maximizing talent on defense than on offense then we have a competitive advantage in drafting for defense but not for offense. The Manning Colts and 2000s Ravens are a couple of obvious examples of teams drafting more often and more efficiently in areas of existing strength.

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You have to look at how this argument cuts the other way too, though. If we're better at maximizing talent on defense than on offense then we have a competitive advantage in drafting for defense but not for offense. The Manning Colts and 2000s Ravens are a couple of obvious examples of teams drafting more often and more efficiently in areas of existing strength.

 

You can never have enough interior 3 down defensive linemen. It's how you beat the statue QB's anyways.

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Based on the Jets visits, I wonder if they either hate this QB Crop at the top, don't think any of them will be around at 18, or really do just feel good enough about Geno to just roll with him regardless of who is available for the Jets.

I'm sure it's a combination of all of that. I think they do have some confidence that Geno is going to take the next step, and also don't see any of the QBs in this year's class (or any that might be there at #18) as a clear upgrade over him.

I don't think QB makes any sense for the Jets in the first round, or the first three rounds for that matter. Any QB they draft almost certainly goes into the season as the #3 guy, while virtually any other position (outside of the DL) would probably be penciled to start. Maybe that changes if a Bortles or Manziel drops that far, but I think a Bridgewater or Carr would continue dropping past the Jets.

If I'm in the front office, I don't start thinking QBs until the fourth round at the earliest.

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If the BAP is a defensive player then you get that guy...if TShane hurts himself in the process...well that's a bonus.

 

Come on Tom, you want to draft the best available player unless you don't need that position because its stocked. For example, I would not draft a D-lineman in the first round this year because we are stocked but every other position can't claim that.

 

LL

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I completely agree with TomShane's premise, I posted something similar on here a couple days ago. If a defensive coach needs a first round corner on top of the two first round corners, two first round defensive linemen, and first round outside linebacker he's drafted - in the last four drafts, mind you - I don't know how much value his genius is really adding. And that's on top of some other talent on that side of the ball.

 

Honestly, I don't think I'd mind a first round defensive player so much if it seemed like a good value. But I frankly don't like the first round corner class at all. Dennard has average speed and gets grabby down the field which is going to lead to lots of flags as a rookie. Without the above average speed I don't know if he'll be able to compensate and adjust to the NFL's illegal contact rules really. Gilbert's an elite height weight speed athlete and a playmaker, but got picked on in the intermediate range in college a bunch and is kind of linear. Neither of those bode well for transitioning to the NFL either. Fuller I like besides the injury concerns and is probably my favorite of the bunch, but they could probably get him after 18. I wouldn't complain a ton, but it would be a meh pick. Better in a trade down, but we're still talking #2 corner for the next 5 or so years at best and frankly I'm not sure that guy isn't already on the roster. Roby I'd react to similarly although he's different than Fuller in that he wasn't as good in college but has almost ideal physical tools for the position including ability to flip his hips that I think Gilbert lacks, but he still lacks good technique and was misused in college and got toasted at points. More upside, but more downside too - plus he's had his share of run ins off the field even if he wasn't drunk a week or so ago. And Verrett is small.

 

Combine the lack of a really appealing player with the lack of a substantial need and I've got no interest in taking a corner. Barr I could get excited about because that's a huge upside pick at a spot that the Jets need help at and I think it's a great fit for both the Jets and Barr. That's about it on the defensive side of the ball though (excluding the ridiculous options like Mack and Clowney that aren't happening), at least for the first round. Safeties are meh too, neither has the elite physical tools or production I'd associate with a first round safety. Pryor's at least made some splashy plays, but give me Ward or Bucannon in the second over HaHa or Pryor in the first any day.

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I have been a big fan of getting Ebron hopefully in the 1st but I feel I am starting to lean more n more towards a CB in the first round.  But not just any CB, Dennard.  If Dennard happens to be gone at 18 then I would be more interested in Beckham or Cooks or another player of value.  

 

Some may feel using this years and last years picks on CB's as a waste but I dont feel that way.  I get the whole thing that CB's dont win superbowls...but they sure can make your season hell when you have a CB that sucks like Cro did last season.  With that said, if we land Dennard and he lives up to his potential and at the same time Milliner continues on at the same rate he finished last season, we will have two top notch CB's for the next 4-5years.  That to me is a beautiful thing.

 

Obviously I would want a Mike Evans over Dennard, but if I have to choose between Dennard and Cooks or Beckham...I'll pick Dennard.

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I get where t-Shane is coming from but to think we don't need to dramatically improve on D is wrong.

If we don't get a serious pass rush from the edges were 6-10...if we do get that pass rush, 10-6 is a possibility, IMO.

Are idzik and Rex gonna just hope coples comes through for them? Calvin pace is a nice piece, but C'MON MAN he ain't a game changer. We need OLBs that can wreck havoc, a safety, and much better play at CB. Milliner might have a high ceiling, but C'MON MAN, he absolutely sucked ass for 80% of the year.

We got Vick, decker, jacoby ford, Chris Johnson...that's improved enough. I'd be happy with B.Cooks or O.Beckham at 18, but they don't make us a playoff bubble team.

Improving the already-pretty-good DEFENSE with edge rushers, better safety and CB play makes us a bubble team.

Will serious edge rushers be there at 18? Doesn't look like it to me. I'm not a Barr FROM UCLA fan but he might be there. I've become infatuated w Calvin Pryor but not sure he's be there either. If they go defense in round 1, I believe that is smart and Tom Shane and others should re-think their position.

Barnes is coming back n should help the edge rush department. Coples should step it up this yr n I think he will. So Barnes, Coples n Pace should provide sufficient pass rush behind leagues possibly the best DL. Because of the DL, I don't think LB or DL is a need that should be addressed on the first two days.

We have far glaring needs than that. CB is one of them but it's unfair to dismiss Milliners play towards the end of the year. CBS take time to adjust, especially the ones that didn't partake in any offseason activities at all due to injury rehab. Safety can use some upgrade but again, it's not the biggest need.

Can WR spot use some upgrade? Or do we really think Hill will blow up the NFL this yr? Cuz we only have Decker as the only outside starting WR n right now, it's Hill/Nelson opposite of him on the outside.

Can Cumberland make that next leap Jets have been hoping for? I hope so, but I'm not happy putting all my eggs into the 'hope' basket. Atleast not for a player who has been around for a few yrs now.

So out of the first three rounds, I hope we draft a CB, WR n a TE n ANY order. They are all major needs. After that, I hope we can look into replacing the irreplaceable Ducasse n add some depth that can actually start when given the opportunity.

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