Villain The Foe Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2014/05/after_rookie_struggles_brian_winters_says_next_year_is_going_to_be_a_whole_different_story.html Four games into last season, it became glaringly obvious that Vladimir Ducasse was not cutting it as the Jets’ starting left guard. Well aware of the growing pains that would follow, the Jets’ coaches decided to replace Ducasse with rookie Brian Winters for the Monday night game at Atlanta. Winters, a third-round draft pick out of Kent State, had been hampered by an ankle injury during training camp, which set back his transition from college tackle to NFL guard. Learning on the fly last season, as a starter, wasn’t always pretty for Winters. He did, however, have his best game in the Jets’ season finale at Miami. He received a grade of plus-2.4 in Pro Football Focus’s rating system – one of only two positive grades the website gave him for his 12 games last year. The other was plus-0.9 against the Steelers – his second game. As he prepares for his second season, Winters expects more from himself. “(Last year) was a huge building year for me,” he said this week after the Jets’ second of 10 organized team activities practices. “It got better toward the end of year, but it’s nowhere near where I want to be. This offseason really has helped me. Having a year under my belt, I can have a little more confidence and swagger.” Does he feel like he has something to prove this year? “I definitely feel like I do,” he said. “It’s just like college, man. I started as a freshman in college, and as time went, I got better and better. Obviously, it’s going to take some time. People that go in and do amazing, that’s great. But me, it took a little more time for the transition. But next year is going to be a whole different story.” Winters started every game of his college career. In his sophomore, junior and senior seasons, he climbed the all-conference lists in Kent State’s league, the Mid-American Conference. He made the third team as a sophomore, then the second team, and then the first team as a senior. It is not easy to start on the offensive line as an NFL rookie. It is even tougher when you are learning a new position, as Winters did last year. Despite not playing a full season, he led all guards in sacks allowed (10), and he also allowed 15 quarterback hurries, according to Pro Football Focus. The site ranked him 77th out of 81 guards in the NFL, including 73rd in pass blocking and 75th in run blocking. “I thought I played well,” Winters said. “There were some times when I could have done things differently. That’s just being a rookie and having your growing pains. Next year, I don’t really have an excuse for it.” The Jets’ offensive coordinator, Marty Mornhinweg, said this week that the Jets have “an opportunity to become one of the better offensive lines in the league.” Last season, they were rated by Pro Football Focus 21st in pass blocking and 31st in run blocking, even though they ranked sixth in the NFL in rushing yards gained and 10th in yards per carry. Winters will be a big part of whatever improvements the Jets’ line makes this year. All of their starters are back except right tackle Austin Howard, who was replaced by Seattle’s Breno Giacomini in free agency after Howard left for Oakland. Between Winters’ rough rookie season and right guard Willie Colon’s age (31) and injury history, the Jets could have some concerns at the guard spots. The Jets drafted a guard in the fourth round this year – Furman’s Dakota Dozier – but like Winters last year, Dozier is transitioning from college tackle to NFL guard. Winters cannot concern himself with Dozier’s new position, or with Giacomini trying to replace Howard, or with Colon returning from both a biceps tear and arthroscopic knee surgery. Winters simply has to progress in his own right. Last season, he said he learned one of the toughest adjustments involved noticing tendencies of defensive linemen. Tackle is regarded as the line’s marquee position, because tackles must handle edge rushers and protect the quarterback’s blind side. Tackles make the big bucks. But playing guard presents its own problems, particularly for a former tackle. “(Interior defensive linemen) are just as fast, but they’re bigger,” Winters said, comparing the players he faces at guard to those he faced at tackle. “You’ve just got to be quicker on your feet. They’re right in front of you. It’s not like you have as much time to react. Through time, it’s a lot easier.” After a year of growing pains, Winters believes he will be better for the experience. “I’m really excited for next year,” he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Despite not playing a full season, he led all guards in sacks allowed (10), “I thought I played well,” Winters said. jeez i wonder what it looks like when he thinks he played poorly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Pro Football Focus Rankings Brian WInters -28.5 Vlad Ducasse -9.5 FWIW, this article claims the Jets were " rated by Pro Football Focus 21st in pass blocking and 31st in run blocking" while the article I read in Pro Football Focus had them as follows: 15th in pass blocking and 30th in run blocking https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/ The Jets were 26th overall and the Giants 28th. In the coveted 27th slot? Your Super Bowl Champion Seattle Seahawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 He couldn't get much worse so his ceiling is super high Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Pro Football Focus Rankings Brian WInters -28.5 Vlad Ducasse -9.5 FWIW, this article claims the Jets were " while the article I read in Pro Football Focus had them as follows: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/ The Jets were 26th overall and the Giants 28th. In the coveted 27th slot? Your Super Bowl Champion Seattle Seahawks. That's what happens when your super sophisticated black box metric is really just a running tally of Ebert-style thumbs up and downs. Anybody who expresses non-quantitative information in numeric form is selling something to morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 That's what happens when your super sophisticated black box metric is really just a running tally of Ebert-style thumbs up and downs. Anybody who expresses non-quantitative information in numeric form is selling something to morons. #stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 He really needs to have a good season or it doesn't matter if we have Superman playing qb - right now the Jets Oline is Kryptonite for qbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 That's what happens when your super sophisticated black box metric is really just a running tally of Ebert-style thumbs up and downs. Anybody who expresses non-quantitative information in numeric form is selling something to morons. To be fair, I don't pay for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 wait rookies get better ? huh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlife33 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 He can only get better no? Can't get much worse. I remember last few games of last year he started to improve like most of our rookies did so hopefully that carries over to this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 He couldn't get much worse so his ceiling is super high lol sometimes there's no other other place to go but up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 He couldn't get much worse so his ceiling is super high lol sometimes there's no other other place to go but up. Well, when mediocre represents an enormous improvement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 that's inspiring story...I mean if he goes from pee wee to varsisty in just 1 year...watch out I have high hopes for him - i still think he sh be moved to the RG spot though but quite honestly the guy doesn't sound mean or hungry enough. We shall see and whats all the BS about this player or that player playing really well the last 3 games or whatevs. I mean really how many of those games counted for either team. The last 3 games were like another preseason game yet all the player are being singled out like MVPs. give me a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 that's inspiring story...I mean if he goes from pee wee to varsisty in just 1 year...watch out I have high hopes for him - i still think he sh be moved to the RG spot though but quite honestly the guy doesn't sound mean or hungry enough. We shall see and whats all the BS about this player or that player playing really well the last 3 games or whatevs. I mean really how many of those games counted for either team. The last 3 games were like another preseason game yet all the player are being singled out like MVPs. give me a break! The last 3-4 games are nothing like a pre-season game unless you literally come across an opponent who's tanking on purpose. Starting players and coaches are fighting for their jobs, lest their teams move on in January (for coaches), in free agency, or in the draft. Others are trying to make the playoffs (or improve their position). And teams in general are trying to win. None of this applies to a pre-season game that's days or weeks away from the season getting underway. Starters don't try that hard and the most important thing, for them, isn't to beat the other team, but rather it's to not get hurt. Improved play over the final month of the season is a good thing to see from raw rookies, and we had 3 such starters. This is a good thing. It doesn't mean anything in terms of carrying over to the following season but it's better to see this improvement than to not see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoNYGoNYGo Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 We need Winters to improve and Colon to be healthy or we're in trouble. Guard play could be an Achilles heal. I've got my fingers crossed that we find a gem somewhere in the trio of young guards: Aboushi, Dozier and Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieny Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 that's inspiring story...I mean if he goes from pee wee to varsisty in just 1 year...watch out I have high hopes for him - i still think he sh be moved to the RG spot though but quite honestly the guy doesn't sound mean or hungry enough. We shall see and whats all the BS about this player or that player playing really well the last 3 games or whatevs. I mean really how many of those games counted for either team. The last 3 games were like another preseason game yet all the player are being singled out like MVPs. give me a break! And those last 3 games came vs. inferior competition. Gee I'm so excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 that's inspiring story...I mean if he goes from pee wee to varsisty in just 1 year...watch out I have high hopes for him - i still think he sh be moved to the RG spot though but quite honestly the guy doesn't sound mean or hungry enough. We shall see and whats all the BS about this player or that player playing really well the last 3 games or whatevs. I mean really how many of those games counted for either team. The last 3 games were like another preseason game yet all the player are being singled out like MVPs. give me a break! If I remember correctly wasn't Miami playing for a potential playoff spot when we beat them? That's not exactly an unimportant last game of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaJetsFan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 He can only get better no? Can't get much worse. Didn't we once say that about Sanchez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 Didn't we once say that about Sanchez? Yeah, but the good thing is that a LG doesn't need weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billo83 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 If I remember correctly wasn't Miami playing for a potential playoff spot when we beat them? That's not exactly an unimportant last game of the season. That is correct. They would have made the playoffs if they beat the Jets. Funny thing is if these same guys played terrible at the end of the year you wouldn't hear about the games being unimportant. It would be these guys aren't getting any better and they are busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 That is correct. They would have made the playoffs if they beat the Jets. Funny thing is if these same guys played terrible at the end of the year you wouldn't hear about the games being unimportant. It would be these guys aren't getting any better and they are busts. That's generally the way of things. Many people would like to have it both ways. The Jets coming out and beating a team that would be in the playoffs if they won, no matter who the team, is worthy of mentioning when looking for positives in last years team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 If I remember correctly wasn't Miami playing for a potential playoff spot when we beat them? That's not exactly an unimportant last game of the season. and If i remember correctly Miami lost their last 2 games and had an up and down lame year\team...etc and if I also remember correctly it was Miami who on more than 1 seasons played the spoiler to the Jets and a lot of those Jets were still on team so i stick by what i said - you can go eat all the candy corn you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 The last 3-4 games are nothing like a pre-season game unless you literally come across an opponent who's tanking on purpose. Starting players and coaches are fighting for their jobs, lest their teams move on in January (for coaches), in free agency, or in the draft. Others are trying to make the playoffs (or improve their position). And teams in general are trying to win. None of this applies to a pre-season game that's days or weeks away from the season getting underway. Starters don't try that hard and the most important thing, for them, isn't to beat the other team, but rather it's to not get hurt. Improved play over the final month of the season is a good thing to see from raw rookies, and we had 3 such starters. This is a good thing. It doesn't mean anything in terms of carrying over to the following season but it's better to see this improvement than to not see it. David Harris Marvin Lewis Mo Wilks Sheldon Al Toon Crebet and many more I remember watchin these guys play their first games and right away you knew you had a player and a lot more. Marvin Lewis 1st game he was flying faster than I have ever seen a middle linebacker fly around until he hit that guard and broke his cockex or whatever and got injured but man I loved that. Harris was the same. then you have the guys like Gholston Kyle Brady Robertson Blair tomas Geno Smith Winters etc.. where you watchin, hoping they get better, some do, WR 3 years, some become serviceable, some will always remain JAgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Marvin Lewis I remember watchin these guys play their first games and right away you knew you had a player and a lot more. Marvin Lewis 1st game he was flying faster than I have ever seen a middle linebacker fly around until he hit that guard and broke his cockex or whatever and got injured but man I loved that. Harris was the same. marvin jones ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 marvin jones ? yep jones my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 yep jones my bad I loved shadetree. I have an authentic parcells era #55 I break out for really big games. his injury really sucked. he was a big time hitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 and If i remember correctly Miami lost their last 2 games and had an up and down lame year\team...etc and if I also remember correctly it was Miami who on more than 1 seasons played the spoiler to the Jets and a lot of those Jets were still on team so i stick by what i said - you can go eat all the candy corn you like. You asked how many of those games actually counted. I answered you. I sincerely apologize if I muddied up your opinions with a fact. And what does Miami being a spoiler to the Jets in past years have to do with anything we're talking about? Not thatI disagree with that statement. I just don't see the relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 You asked how many of those games actually counted. I answered you. I sincerely apologize if I muddied up your opinions with a fact. And what does Miami being a spoiler to the Jets in past years have to do with anything we're talking about? Not thatI disagree with that statement. I just don't see the relevance. who asked you...dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieny Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 marvin jones ? I met Marvin Jones on 34st - super cool dude, down to earth and looked short as all hell because he was built like a fire plug. One of favs from the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 David Harris Marvin Lewis Mo Wilks Sheldon Al Toon Crebet and many more I remember watchin these guys play their first games and right away you knew you had a player and a lot more. Marvin Lewis 1st game he was flying faster than I have ever seen a middle linebacker fly around until he hit that guard and broke his cockex or whatever and got injured but man I loved that. Harris was the same. then you have the guys like Gholston Kyle Brady Robertson Blair tomas Geno Smith Winters etc.. where you watchin, hoping they get better, some do, WR 3 years, some become serviceable, some will always remain JAgs This response has nothing to do with my post, which was about how the last 3-4 games of a season are not the same as a single pre-season game. Regardless, there are lots of players who look like nothing special and turn into top performers. So every player doesn't fall into the category of good right away, bad early & stays bad, and bad early & becomes a meh jag or merely serviceable. Far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 marvin jones ? Don't be stupid, don't you remember when the Bengals HC was out there at LB for the Jets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Mo Jones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 This response has nothing to do with my post, which was about how the last 3-4 games of a season are not the same as a single pre-season game. Regardless, there are lots of players who look like nothing special and turn into top performers. So every player doesn't fall into the category of good right away, bad early & stays bad, and bad early & becomes a meh jag or merely serviceable. Far from it. uhm well then ur post had nothing to do with my premise which was everyone making a big deal about how much improved some of these players were over the last 3-4 games where I am simply arguing that is way overblown to the point where they may have drafted wrong. I wanted Johnny Football we shall see how he does. You my friend went into tangent about how it is good to see players improve or whatevs and I simply responded to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Don't be stupid, don't you remember when the Bengals HC was out there at LB for the Jets? ha ha hahhahhah hahahahahhahahahahah hahahhahahahaha u so fking funny u sh be on sat night live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 ha ha hahhahhah hahahahahhahahahahah hahahhahahahaha u so fking funny u sh be on sat night live Yeah, because that was really something worth getting uber-butthurt over. uhm well then ur post had nothing to do with my premise which was everyone making a big deal about how much improved some of these players were over the last 3-4 games where I am simply arguing that is way overblown to the point where they may have drafted wrong. I wanted Johnny Football we shall see how he does. You my friend went into tangent about how it is good to see players improve or whatevs and I simply responded to that. That all sounds great, but there's one small problem: your entire post is completely untrue. Sperm's post was in direct response to you, responding to a quote where you stated that "The last 3 games were like another preseason game yet all the player are being singled out like MVPs." That comment was absolutely absurd and proven to be as such in his response. You obviously have already come to your own conclusions about those players, but throwing out completely fabricated and ultimately incorrect arguments doesn't do anything to disprove the opposing viewpoints. But in the end, we can only hope that all of these guys one day can become as good at their respective positions as Marvin Lewis was at LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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