Bleedin Green Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 no, doesn't require any sort of concession. i already said my view only makes sense if you don't think geno is the guy and i understand the opposite view if you think he is the guy. it's you guys that are trying to strongarm people onto the geno bandwagon. i don't think he is the guy, therefore starting vick is a no-brainer according to that assessment. There's a pretty significant difference between being already convinced Geno is "the guy", and thinking there's reason for hope that he one day could be that. You're trying to equate not completely giving up on a player after one NFL season with an attempt to "strongarm people onto the geno bandwagon." Give me a break. I'm (very) cautiously optimistic about Geno, and nothing more than that, simply because I think it's far too early to act like we know everything we have in him. But I also believe the evidence shows that Vick has been mostly crap as a passer for the better part of 13 years and provides little-to-no long-term benefit to the Jets. You're the one who's fawning over an injury-prone, declining player who spent much of his career (especially his early years) putting up passing numbers not all that dissimilar to Geno. We'll see how the offseason and preseason play out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for any show of dominance from Vick, which would likely mean it ends up as Geno's job. If it's anywhere close to even, the potential upside with Geno gives him the edge without a doubt. Vick needs to be world's better throughout these coming months if he wants to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 There's a pretty significant difference between being already convinced Geno is "the guy", and thinking there's reason for hope that he one day could be that. You're trying to equate not completely giving up on a player after one NFL season with an attempt to "strongarm people onto the geno bandwagon." Give me a break. I'm (very) cautiously optimistic about Geno, and nothing more than that, simply because I think it's far too early to act like we know everything we have in him. But I also believe the evidence shows that Vick has been mostly crap as a passer for the better part of 13 years and provides little-to-no long-term benefit to the Jets. You're the one who's fawning over an injury-prone, declining player who spent much of his career (especially his early years) putting up passing numbers not all that dissimilar to Geno. We'll see how the offseason and preseason play out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for any show of dominance from Vick, which would likely mean it ends up as Geno's job. If it's anywhere close to even, the potential upside with Geno gives him the edge without a doubt. Vick needs to be world's better throughout these coming months if he wants to start. it isn't fawning when you come across two pieces of poop and you think to yourself "the one of the right doesn't look quite as disgusting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Let me ask you this; Had Tom Brady not turned into Joe Hardy from Damn Yankees do you think Bill Belichik would be Canton bound 5 years after he retires? No? Yea, me neither-in fact had Brady turned into Kellen Clemens he would be a Fox announcer by now after getting fired when his starter went down after Mo Lewis' hit. Belichick could never work in TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 again, i don't think it is giving up. i think he doesn't have the horsepower upstairs to ever be the answer. it isn't "giving up" on someone if you think there is nothing there to salavage. i know i am in the minority here, and the jury is still out on geno in many people's minds. i guess i am an early adopter. i don't think there will be much debate when he gets outshined like the sun by vick in preseason. will be interesting to watch. I think there's perhaps a bigger issue here that we're not touching on, your opinion of Michael Vick seems to be vastly different than the majority of this board as well. Even if you're right and Geno simply doesn't have what it takes, Vick is still pure crap himself. There's a reason the best gig he could get was to be in a competition for a job that the team clearly wants him to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 it isn't fawning when you come across two pieces of poop and you think to yourself "the one of the right doesn't look quite as disgusting." Haha. Ok, then maybe you don't think much of Vick. The "outshining like the sun" comment just threw me off because I'm not sure there's a QB in the league, no matter how awful, I feel would suddenly make me particularly impressed with Vick. Never really been a fan of the guy as a player, even before all the dog crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Belichick could never work in TV. Who, Mister Personality? You kiddin' me Joe, he has the face and vocal inflections MADE for the screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 There's a pretty significant difference between being already convinced Geno is "the guy", and thinking there's reason for hope that he one day could be that. You're trying to equate not completely giving up on a player after one NFL season with an attempt to "strongarm people onto the geno bandwagon." Give me a break. I'm (very) cautiously optimistic about Geno, and nothing more than that, simply because I think it's far too early to act like we know everything we have in him. But I also believe the evidence shows that Vick has been mostly crap as a passer for the better part of 13 years and provides little-to-no long-term benefit to the Jets. You're the one who's fawning over an injury-prone, declining player who spent much of his career (especially his early years) putting up passing numbers not all that dissimilar to Geno. We'll see how the offseason and preseason play out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for any show of dominance from Vick, which would likely mean it ends up as Geno's job. If it's anywhere close to even, the potential upside with Geno gives him the edge without a doubt. Vick needs to be world's better throughout these coming months if he wants to start. Not sure anyone is saying Vick is much better than SMith.He's old, washed up, and a turnover or injury waiting to happen. Which is the core of what we Antie-Ryan people are sayingherein-QB IS NOT A PRIORITY HERE. Yes, they did use a (disasterous) pick on Sanchez. Clear they're about to do much the same thing with Smith, wasting seasons in the forlorn hope the lightbulb goes off over his head. . But there is nothing at all about Geno Smith to suggest he will ever be "the guy". He was only somehwat less of a turnover machine later in the season. His last bowl game vs. Cuse was crap. His NFL game logs are a joke. Basically Idzik wants (hopes?) his 2013 2nd round pick becomes servicable. Oh, he beat the Browns and the Fins, yes, jump around like sugared up 6 year olds. What a stirring memory that will be to us all. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitGe00/gamelog// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Haha. Ok, then maybe you don't think much of Vick. The "outshining like the sun" comment just threw me off because I'm not sure there's a QB in the league, no matter how awful, I feel would suddenly make me particularly impressed with Vick. Never really been a fan of the guy as a player, even before all the dog crap. i do think vick will destroy geno in any objective "competition"--but you are right it is less an endorsement of vick and more of the belief that geno fell out of the first round in a weak QB draft for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Let me ask you this; Had Tom Brady not turned into Joe Hardy from Damn Yankees do you think Bill Belichik would be Canton bound 5 years after he retires? No? Yea, me neither-in fact had Brady turned into Kellen Clemens he would be a Fox announcer by now after getting fired when his starter went down after Mo Lewis' hit. I'm obvioulsy 100% in agreement that the QB certainly helps the said greatness of a HC. I guess I was just wondering if you really cant seperate the 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 i do think vick will destroy geno in any objective "competition"--but you are right it is less an endorsement of vick and more of the belief that geno fell out of the first round in a weak QB draft for good reason. Fair enough, and I really am FAR from sold on Geno at all. I just have a sliver of hope that the Jets finally catch an f'n break and he shows us something this year. I'm already convinced Vick won't do much for them regardless, so that's why if it's anywhere even close in preseason, I think he'd just be a waste of time. I think it's fair to say that either way, the Jets scouts need to spend plenty of time this year checking out the upcoming QB class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Who, Mister Personality? You kiddin' me Joe, he has the face and vocal inflections MADE for the screen Mike Tirico: And joining us this year in the booth, former Browns head coach Bill Belichick. Bill what are your thoughts on Russell Wilson and the Seahawks, do they have the makings of a dynasty? Belichick: *grumble grumble grumble* Wilson is a fast runner. *grumble grumble grumble* Pete Carroll *grumble grumble* defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 apparently, you. you keep responding and trying to refute my opinion. maybe we disagree on the definition of the word "debate." I assumed you were, but then when you started talking about the Geno bandwagon and people who think that Geno is the guy, I wondered who that was, because I don't fall in either category, and don't readily recall any posts of people who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Not sure anyone is saying Vick is much better than SMith.He's old, washed up, and a turnover or injury waiting to happen. Which is the core of what we Antie-Ryan people are sayingherein-QB IS NOT A PRIORITY HERE. Yes, they did use a (disasterous) pick on Sanchez. Clear they're about to do much the same thing with Smith, wasting seasons in the forlorn hope the lightbulb goes off over his head. . But there is nothing at all about Geno Smith to suggest he will ever be "the guy". He was only somehwat less of a turnover machine later in the season. His last bowl game vs. Cuse was crap. His NFL game logs are a joke. Basically Idzik wants (hopes?) his 2013 2nd round pick becomes servicable. Oh, he beat the Browns and the Fins, yes, jump around like sugared up 6 year olds. What a stirring memory that will be to us all. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitGe00/gamelog// So, Rex Ryan joins the Jets, in his very first draft, his GM trades up to 5th overall for Sanchez. Then this GM after multiple failed attempts at a back-up, gets fired. Rex gets a new GM who takes a QB in the 2nd round, to compete with the 5th overall pick from the other GM and then backs them both up with your boo, Matt Simms which was disaster. So, they go out and sign the best veteran QB on the market, draft another QB and get some weapons on offense to hep the QB but QB is not a priority here. Got it. Makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 QB IS NOT A PRIORITY HERE. Oh for ****'s sake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 again, i don't think it is giving up. i think he doesn't have the horsepower upstairs to ever be the answer. it isn't "giving up" on someone if you think there is nothing there to salavage. i know i am in the minority here, and the jury is still out on geno in many people's minds. i guess i am an early adopter. i don't think there will be much debate when he gets outshined like the sun by vick in preseason. will be interesting to watch. This is totally fair. I just think it's way to soon to pull the plug. It may not be too soon to think he'll never get it, but I think on both sides, it's way to early to be so convinced. Hell, I was one of the first and loudest to want Sanchez gone, but even I thought he should start in 2010. Just because Jet players seemingly never improve, doesn't mean improvement isn't possible. Call it hope, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Not sure anyone is saying Vick is much better than SMith.He's old, washed up, and a turnover or injury waiting to happen. Which is the core of what we Antie-Ryan people are sayingherein-QB IS NOT A PRIORITY HERE. Yes, they did use a (disasterous) pick on Sanchez. Clear they're about to do much the same thing with Smith, wasting seasons in the forlorn hope the lightbulb goes off over his head. . But there is nothing at all about Geno Smith to suggest he will ever be "the guy". He was only somehwat less of a turnover machine later in the season. His last bowl game vs. Cuse was crap. His NFL game logs are a joke. Basically Idzik wants (hopes?) his 2013 2nd round pick becomes servicable. Oh, he beat the Browns and the Fins, yes, jump around like sugared up 6 year olds. What a stirring memory that will be to us all. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SmitGe00/gamelog// Oh, the QB position has undoubtedly been handled like crap for the Jets in recent years (and for looooong before that too), although I would say that has more to do with the failure of their attempts as opposed to not making it a priority. We could argue until we're blue in the face about who deserves the blame for that, but at this point the Jets potential options for 2014 are already set. So that's why I think this debate now comes to which way the team should go with it. I don't think Geno deserves any particular praise for last year, but I just think there's at least some chance, no matter how slight, he could take a serious leap forward this year. We sure as hell know Vick isn't going to do that, which is why I maintain that if the performance we see this preseason out of this mess of QBs is anywhere close to even, there's no reason the Jets would or should go with anyone but Geno and hope for the best. None of that means that you don't prepare for next offseason as if you're going to need to find a new answer at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 You left out Garrard who probably would have started if he could stand on both legs. FWIW, I am sure that someone is saying Vick is much better than Smith - JGB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 Fair enough, and I really am FAR from sold on Geno at all. I just have a sliver of hope that the Jets finally catch an f'n break and he shows us something this year. I'm already convinced Vick won't do much for them regardless, so that's why if it's anywhere even close in preseason, I think he'd just be a waste of time. I think it's fair to say that either way, the Jets scouts need to spend plenty of time this year checking out the upcoming QB class. i really want you to be right. i also think if it is anywhere close you have to roll with geno. my fear is vick outplays by a large margin but they stick with geno anyway and he bombs. and knowing the jets, once they pull him vick will come in and the team will go on a run and fall a game short on the final week of the season leaving us all to wonder "what would have been" had vick started from the beginning. that is my prediction in a nutshell, really. I assumed you were, but then when you started talking about the Geno bandwagon and people who think that Geno is the guy, I wondered who that was, because I don't fall in either category, and don't readily recall any posts of people who do. ok i apologize. you aren't on the bandwagon yet but you are waiting at the bus stop. better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 17, 2014 Author Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is totally fair. I just think it's way to soon to pull the plug. It may not be too soon to think he'll never get it, but I think on both sides, it's way to early to be so convinced. Hell, I was one of the first and loudest to want Sanchez gone, but even I thought he should start in 2010. Just because Jet players seemingly never improve, doesn't mean improvement isn't possible. Call it hope, I suppose. my hope died on sept 12, 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm gearing up to respond in this thread. Please hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You are not confident. My belief, as it pertains to Rex, is that we can win it all with him with competent talent and a competent coordinator on offense. In 5 years we have not had that. He is not the GM and I wouldn't want him to be the GM. But even if one can it doesn't mean one will. I'm sure you think Belichick is a good enough coach to have won it once in the last 10 years, yet he didn't despite an all-time great QB and some top talent around him. Winning does marvelous things for a coach's intelligence reputation. With superior talent or not, if you win people will think the coach is responsible for all sorts of things he isn't. Carroll is a prime example of this, and his offense was putting up the same lowly 25-30 TDs until his magical QB rescued his career. It wasn't nothing, but he gets way too much credit for benching a guy that was badly losing a QB competition. If Wilson was a late round pick it would be gutsier as far as decision-making is concerned. But as a mid-3rd round pick, Wilson was drafted to be their starter as soon as he was ready. Well, he showed he was ready way ahead of schedule. Meanwhile Flynn put on a performance that made them facepalm their decision to acquire him in the first place. Another example is John Harbaugh, a special teams coach whose team's special teams play would have bounced them out of the playoffs in their SB season but for a crazy heave in OT with 50 yards of air under it. Does that make him a smarter head coach than Ryan? Or does it just make him a lucky winner? I know which you think. Meanwhile, a year later they finished with the same record as a talent-barren Jets team that had only gotten through most of the gut phase of a gut and rebuild process. I think you pay a little too much attention to some goofy mannerisms and assume a guy who does or says some goofy things can't possibly be a serious coach. With all that said, if the Jets are terrible or total failures, and it isn't just because of the QB, then Ryan should (and probably will) get fired. If everything is starting to fall into place except Smith sucks and so does Vick (or Vick gets hurt and Smith still sucks), then I'm going to keep that in perspective. If there's still a lot of garbage that should be 1st/2nd year HC mistakes being done in his 6th year, then he'll have reached the end of his leash. Not that he can't make any mistakes, since no coach is free of them and it's easy to make the hindsight call after one sees a called play has failed, but things like wasting timeouts or evidence of losing control of the team (or himself). I just think this idea that a coach whose offense has been lousy when locked into awful QBs would still be awful if there was even one halfway decent QB on the roster is baseless. If you want to say he'd make a lousy GM you'd get no argument from me. But it's not his job to draft or sign QBs. His former GM traded away a ton for Sanchez and then threw all-pro money at him (old CBA), and there was no other somewhat average QB on the roster. Nobody is benching Sanchez so fast in that situation, and certainly not a first-time head coach who doesn't have a lot of clout. Then again after an extension that dropped $20M on him for 2012 and 2013, and the GM's brilliant idea of competition was Tim Tebow (who Ryan refused to play at QB for so much as 1 full set of downs from what I remember). The truth is if Tannenbaum didn't panic in '09, and just let Favre sit out training camp like he wanted to do every year (the reason for his retirement every year), then he would have come back and been the QB in 2009 and perhaps 2010 as well. We could have still had a contingency plan in place that didn't require trading 2 picks and mega-star cap space for Sanchez. But again, that's on the GM. As far as Geno, I don't know what to think. He was so unready to be on the field that this can look the same as someone who will never get anything right. He had a bunch of 90% completion rates for a handful of entire games the prior year. You went to camp and said his passes looked crisp and spot-on (in contrast to Sanchez). Then he gets into the game and all I see is a guy staring down his primary and not typically hitting anyone in stride (in no contrast to Sanchez). Even that could be just from inexperience, though, if his mind is focusing on 20 things and therefore isn't focusing on any 1 thing properly. He certainly has a lot of room to improve, and Mornhinweg seems to think he has the ability to be a good starter (or so he claims). We'll see. But either way, at least this GM has a legitimate backup plan in place (even if I despise his selection because he's an evil sadist). He tried last year, but the guy he bet on went and retired in freaking May. I wasn't too upset about it since we weren't winning any superbowls in '13 no matter who the coach was. Not with that roster. I think he's a good coach. I think there's room for him to get much better, but there's also plenty of room to get way worse. I think he's in a different league from a coach like Herm who was simply a clown with no substance behind it. I don't mean goofy and knows he's goofy. Herm is goofy and isn't even fully aware of how ridiculous he looks/sounds. Or put another way, it's the difference between goofiness that you laugh with and goofiness you laugh at. To me, Herm was firmly entrenched as the latter. He wasn't outsmarting anyone on any level. Rex does, every year, though I wish it was done more consistently. And I just like the guy. And with all that, if the team as a whole is a hot mess even beyond the QB position, then he deserves to get sh*tcanned. And that is how I honestly feel. Alright, I've read this five times and, boiled down, your points seem to be: 1. Rex didn't pick the personnel, or the QB, so he's not to blame for offensive inadequacy. Rather, he was victimized by everyone associated with the QB position. 2. John Harbaugh and Pete Carroll are luckier coaches than Rex, but not better coaches than Rex. 3. Rex might get better in Year 6. Not to be flip here, and I certainly don't mean to disrespect all the work you put into this thread, but I just don't have the energy to argue these points with any vigor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I love you too. So tell me Tom, when did you go sour on Rex? You used to love him...everyone did but all the biggest haters these days did too (rjf, jgb, dbates)...but when did you specifically go sour? Not true at all. I hated the hire from Day One. He was just another dude who used Ray Lewis and Ed Reed playing in Marvin Lewis' defense to get a job. I was embarrassed for the organization every time he'd make another moronic statement or prediction, and I rightly stated that the "player's coach" has a short-term spike, followed by a nose-dive in effectiveness once players find out that being a "player's coach" equates to being "a pussy." This idea that Rex has grown or changed is comical. The only thing that's changed is that Idzik has made him the full-time defensive coordinator while firing every player who spent the last four to five years cumming in Rex's hair. Kudos to Idzik for recognizing Rex's many and vast failings as a leader of a team, but he's about to find out that the things that ruined this franchise for the past three years all emanate from the bloviating idiot from Oklahoma. Marty Mornhinweg is the de facto head coach of this team right now, and he's gotta deal with the a$$hole who's conned Woody into another year with the actual title. For Christ's sake, they already had to have an organizational meeting to shut Rex up about a QB competition that nobody believes exists except for Rex. As if anyone is looking for Rex's opinion on who the QB should be. The man is a waste of time incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 my hope died on sept 12, 1999 What were you hoping for? Another AFC Championship loss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The only thing that's changed is that Idzik has made him the full-time defensive coordinator while firing every player who spent the last four to five years cumming in Rex's hair. Kudos to Idzik for recognizing Rex's many and vast failings as a leader of a team, but he's about to find out that the things that ruined this franchise for the past three years all emanate from the bloviating idiot from Oklahoma. For me, if I had to pinpoint the exact moment I finally started to like Idzik, it's when all the reports came out about Rex stomping his feet and crying when Idzik didn't nuke the fridge for DRC. That and the immediate following of Woody wanting Desean and Idzik not even bothering. As long as the man in charge of personnel is ignoring both of those pudsteaks we have a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 For me, if I had to pinpoint the exact moment I finally started to like Idzik, it's when all the reports came out about Rex stomping his feet and crying when Idzik didn't nuke the fridge for DRC. That and the immediate following of Woody wanting Desean and Idzik not even bothering. As long as the man in charge of personnel is ignoring both of those pudsteaks we have a shot. Hey now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Hey now! You had to know that one wasn't staying yours the second you typed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You had to know that one wasn't staying yours the second you typed it. I stole it from some guy on the radio, so it was never really mine to begin with. Just keep paying it forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I stole it from some guy on the radio, so it was never really mine to begin with. Just keep paying it forward. It's already my mom's new nickname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Not true at all. I hated the hire from Day One. He was just another dude who used Ray Lewis and Ed Reed playing in Marvin Lewis' defense to get a job. I was embarrassed for the organization every time he'd make another moronic statement or prediction, and I rightly stated that the "player's coach" has a short-term spike, followed by a nose-dive in effectiveness once players find out that being a "player's coach" equates to being "a pussy." This idea that Rex has grown or changed is comical. The only thing that's changed is that Idzik has made him the full-time defensive coordinator while firing every player who spent the last four to five years cumming in Rex's hair. Kudos to Idzik for recognizing Rex's many and vast failings as a leader of a team, but he's about to find out that the things that ruined this franchise for the past three years all emanate from the bloviating idiot from Oklahoma. Marty Mornhinweg is the de facto head coach of this team right now, and he's gotta deal with the a$$hole who's conned Woody into another year with the actual title. For Christ's sake, they already had to have an organizational meeting to shut Rex up about a QB competition that nobody believes exists except for Rex. As if anyone is looking for Rex's opinion on who the QB should be. The man is a waste of time incarnate. I can actually understand a bunch of the points being made here against Rex, particularly since they actually have to do with coaching. But you've got to understand it comes across as a bit much with comments like MM being "de facto head coach", or the Marvin Lewis thing. Lewis has been out of Baltimore for over 11 years now, and the Jets have also been far more successful on defense since Rex came to town. I can really get the idea of some thinking of him as nothing more than a DC in HC's clothing, but you can't really take away his strengths in that area from him and expect to be taken seriously. There's too much effort putting into making up reasons to crap on him, which I think fuels a lot of the "defense" he gets, at least from those who aren't completely in love with him. He's got enough of his own failures that he doesn't need to be blamed for Tanny's as well, or have credit for his few (relative) successes passed along to the likes of Mangini. I'm on the fence with Rex, but I was admittedly ok with giving him one last shot this year, mostly because of the QB situation and me thinking lots of the top HC candidates this past offseason were pretty crappy anyway. That said, this should be his last chance to prove something this year and I can certainly understand a decent amount of the criticism he gets. Obviously the best case scenario is he proves all doubters unquestionably wrong, but we'll definitely have to see about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 For me, if I had to pinpoint the exact moment I finally started to like Idzik, it's when all the reports came out about Rex stomping his feet and crying when Idzik didn't nuke the fridge for DRC. That and the immediate following of Woody wanting Desean and Idzik not even bothering. As long as the man in charge of personnel is ignoring both of those pudsteaks we have a shot. Enjoyed both of those, but extending Rex and not covering his ass at QB has me like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I can actually understand a bunch of the points being made here against Rex, particularly since they actually have to do with coaching. But you've got to understand it comes across as a bit much with comments like MM being "de facto head coach", or the Marvin Lewis thing. Lewis has been out of Baltimore for over 11 years now, and the Jets have also been far more successful on defense since Rex came to town. I can really get the idea of some thinking of him as nothing more than a DC in HC's clothing, but you can't really take away his strengths in that area from him and expect to be taken seriously. There's too much effort putting into making up reasons to crap on him, which I think fuels a lot of the "defense" he gets, at least from those who aren't completely in love with him. He's got enough of his own failures that he doesn't need to be blamed for Tanny's as well, or have credit for his few (relative) successes passed along to the likes of Mangini. I'm on the fence with Rex, but I was admittedly ok with giving him one last shot this year, mostly because of the QB situation and me thinking lots of the top HC candidates this past offseason were pretty crappy anyway. That said, this should be his last chance to prove something this year and I can certainly understand a decent amount of the criticism he gets. Obviously the best case scenario is he proves all doubters unquestionably wrong, but we'll definitely have to see about that. I evoked Marvin Lewis only to relate to JiF my impressions of Rex at the time of his hiring, not what I believe of him currently. Like with Mike Nolan, there was a lot of undeserved praise being passed around for the success of that Baltimore defense, in the same way that every Niners OC became a hot hire while working with Montana and Young. Much of the other criticisms of the anti-Rex viewpoints are due to context. Saying that Rex has handled his personnel poorly is not the same as exonerating Tannenbaum; saying that Rex mishandled Sanchez is not saying that Sanchez would have been Joe Montana otherwise; saying that Rex is an average coach is not saying that Rex is Kotite. The anti-Rex argument consists of pointing at the product--and the consistencies therein--on the field and evaluating the leadership based on what has transpired. It's the pro-Rex argument that relies on hypotheticals that require massive leaps in plausibility: Rex had no say in adding any player to his roster other than Mo Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson; a head coach shouldn't have to involve himself in, or take responsibility for, areas of the team that fall outside of his expertise; Brett Favre wanted to remain a Jet for a second more than he had to, etc. it's all faith-based gobbledygook. The hyperbole is in response to the ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Not true at all. I hated the hire from Day One. He was just another dude who used Ray Lewis and Ed Reed playing in Marvin Lewis' defense to get a job. I was embarrassed for the organization every time he'd make another moronic statement or prediction, and I rightly stated that the "player's coach" has a short-term spike, followed by a nose-dive in effectiveness once players find out that being a "player's coach" equates to being "a pussy." This idea that Rex has grown or changed is comical. The only thing that's changed is that Idzik has made him the full-time defensive coordinator while firing every player who spent the last four to five years cumming in Rex's hair. Kudos to Idzik for recognizing Rex's many and vast failings as a leader of a team, but he's about to find out that the things that ruined this franchise for the past three years all emanate from the bloviating idiot from Oklahoma. Marty Mornhinweg is the de facto head coach of this team right now, and he's gotta deal with the a$$hole who's conned Woody into another year with the actual title. For Christ's sake, they already had to have an organizational meeting to shut Rex up about a QB competition that nobody believes exists except for Rex. As if anyone is looking for Rex's opinion on who the QB should be. The man is a waste of time incarnate. Really? Hmph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 T0mShane circa Jan 2010 regarding Rex Ryan: "And that they actually got better AFTER Jenkins went down is maybe the most amazing magic trick I've ever seen in coaching." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 T0mShane circa Jan 2010 regarding Rex Ryan: "And that they actually got better AFTER Jenkins went down is maybe the most amazing magic trick I've ever seen in coaching." Tom after 6 hours at the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Really? Hmph Holy sh*t that's major ownage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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