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Rex is horrendous


jgb
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As usual, you are missing the point. That was posted in response to Tom Shane stating unequivocally that he "hated the hire from day one."

 

wow you win today's epic messageboard gotcha moment. highlight of your week i am sure. PS you can hate the hire from day one and still like some individual things rex has done. so... not sure who is missing the point here.

Edited by jgb
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Not true at all. I hated the hire from Day One. He was just another dude who used Ray Lewis and Ed Reed playing in Marvin Lewis' defense to get a job. I was embarrassed for the organization every time he'd make another moronic statement or prediction, and I rightly stated that the "player's coach" has a short-term spike, followed by a nose-dive in effectiveness once players find out that being a "player's coach" equates to being "a pussy." This idea that Rex has grown or changed is comical. The only thing that's changed is that Idzik has made him the full-time defensive coordinator while firing every player who spent the last four to five years cumming in Rex's hair. Kudos to Idzik for recognizing Rex's many and vast failings as a leader of a team, but he's about to find out that the things that ruined this franchise for the past three years all emanate from the bloviating idiot from Oklahoma. Marty Mornhinweg is the de facto head coach of this team right now, and he's gotta deal with the a$$hole who's conned Woody into another year with the actual title. For Christ's sake, they already had to have an organizational meeting to shut Rex up about a QB competition that nobody believes exists except for Rex. As if anyone is looking for Rex's opinion on who the QB should be. The man is a waste of time incarnate.

You should write fan fiction. I think that's your true niche.

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wow you win today's epic messageboard gotcha moment. highlight of your week i am sure. PS you can hate the hire from day one and still like some individual things rex has done. so... not sure who is missing the point here.

 

Again, you are missing the point. I take no pleasure in pointing out your shortcomings, although you do seem to take pleasure in doing so to others so I thought I'd show you how that feels. not good, huh?

 

Anyway, there is a difference between changing one's mind and stating that you have thought one way all along when you clearly have not, as JiF so easily pointed out. Plus if you had bothered to read Tom Shane's full post you'd see that he points out that he feels the idea that Rex had changed is comical when in the post that JiF linked he is praising Rex for learning from his mistakes. 

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Did you know that 50 Shades of Grey started out as Twilight fanfic? True story.

There you go. You can repackage Rex as an immortal fat vampire who's sucking the lifeblood from the Jets' organization. You're pretty much three-quarters of the way there already. I'd like to see Bryan Cranston in the role of Woody Johnson, as he's equally capable of hapless twit and evil-doer. Maybe John Goodman as Rex? Freddie Prinze Jr. as Mark Sanchez? And of course, The Rock as John Idzik.

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yeah because only a fool would ever change his opinion after 4 additional years of data

 

My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex?  What was the turning point. 

 

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1.  Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

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My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex?  What was the turning point. 

 

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1.  Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

 

No one could possibly hate Rex Ryan during those 2009-2010 campaigns.  It's impossible.  Even non-Jets fans admitted they loved Hard Knocks, and some who usually hate or have no regard for the Jets were even rooting for us when we faced San Diego in the playoffs the previous year.

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No one could possibly hate Rex Ryan during those 2009-2010 campaigns.  It's impossible.  Even non-Jets fans admitted they loved Hard Knocks, and some who usually hate or have no regard for the Jets were even rooting for us when we faced San Diego in the playoffs the previous year.

 

I'm pretty sure BP hated him then. 

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Again, you are missing the point. I take no pleasure in pointing out your shortcomings, although you do seem to take pleasure in doing so to others so I thought I'd show you how that feels. not good, huh?

 

Anyway, there is a difference between changing one's mind and stating that you have thought one way all along when you clearly have not, as JiF so easily pointed out. Plus if you had bothered to read Tom Shane's full post you'd see that he points out that he feels the idea that Rex had changed is comical when in the post that JiF linked he is praising Rex for learning from his mistakes. 

 

may shock you but most adults don't "feel bad" when they get "gotcha'd" on a messageboard. but now that i know it doesn't feel good when it happens to you, i will respect your sensitivity.

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There you go. You can repackage Rex as an immortal fat vampire who's sucking the lifeblood from the Jets' organization. You're pretty much three-quarters of the way there already. I'd like to see Bryan Cranston in the role of Woody Johnson, as he's equally capable of hapless twit and evil-doer. Maybe John Goodman as Rex? Freddie Prinze Jr. as Mark Sanchez? And of course, The Rock as John Idzik.

Love it, but Richard Jenkins as Woody.

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My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex?  What was the turning point. 

 

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1.  Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

 

he could've been anti-rex day one, softened a bit after the AFC champ runs, and now is anti again. that probably describes my feelings although i'm sure you could dig through the archives and find something that appears contrary to that viewpoint. let me know what you turn up.

Edited by jgb
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My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex? What was the turning point.

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1. Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

I can't wait to fistfight your face with my ******* fists.

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There you go. You can repackage Rex as an immortal fat vampire who's sucking the lifeblood from the Jets' organization. You're pretty much three-quarters of the way there already. I'd like to see Bryan Cranston in the role of Woody Johnson, as he's equally capable of hapless twit and evil-doer. Maybe John Goodman as Rex? Freddie Prinze Jr. as Mark Sanchez? And of course, The Rock as John Idzik.

 

John Goodman would do a better job pretending to be Rex, than Rex does now.

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My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex?  What was the turning point. 

 

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1.  Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

He changed at the point this past season where Rex closed the season on a high note and got retained, and the general consensus amongst fans was that "he's alright". 

 

Probably around the time I stopped crapping on Rex, Tom started.  

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I was wondering why everyone was mocking the pick of TomShane for the podcast gig but after reading his rant on Rex, I get it. Holy smokes, I listened to the podcast and thought he was a comedian, like a schtick, because what he was saying was so off base and just dumb ass Jet fan stuff. But I guess what he says is for real?. He can't really think this sutff, right? He just boxed himself into a corner and now he just has to go with it?  Its the nutiest stuff I have ever heard/listen to in all my years of following sports. And I  I am not in love with Rex the head coach either., just the coordinator. Man, just find another team because you are lost. And thanks for ruining the podcast, I had to delete it.

Edited by sec337
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Alright, I've read this five times and, boiled down, your points seem to be:

1. Rex didn't pick the personnel, or the QB, so he's not to blame for offensive inadequacy. Rather, he was victimized by everyone associated with the QB position.

2. John Harbaugh and Pete Carroll are luckier coaches than Rex, but not better coaches than Rex.

3. Rex might get better in Year 6.

Not to be flip here, and I certainly don't mean to disrespect all the work you put into this thread, but I just don't have the energy to argue these points with any vigor.

 

If you don't think that Harbaugh and Carroll - and many others - got dramatically luckier in the QB sweepstakes I don't know what to tell you.  

 

Harbaugh is in no way a de facto GM or QB scout in Baltimore.  He gets the players that Ozzie Newsome gives him.  Flacco isn't even so awesome, but he's at least average or slightly above so.  One could argue that, with his tools and experience, by now he should be far better than he is.  And even still, it took him being in an impossibly-great zone during the playoffs to win it.  This was nearly outdone by Baltimore's special teams giving up 2 TDs in the same game, despite Harbaugh being a special teams coach prior to his promotion.  You think Harbaugh is the one who has spent countless hours going over film and footwork with Flacco, or was even at his pro day? If you think so, you're the only one who does. Harbaugh was nowhere near there. Ozzie sent him to go see Leodis McKelvin instead, since he was a ST coach and DB coach with zero experience scouting or working with QBs.

 

Carroll is no great offensive mind, and it's debatable that he's half as good or knowledgeable as he gets credit for being.  Bevell is 100% running that offense there, as evidenced by his trademark stamp of only passing the ball when absolutely necessary; this philosophy isn't that different from Ryan's. The one year he changed his stripes was when Favre had as good a season as he's ever had (after getting removed from Mangini, lol).  Absent that kind of play from his QB, Bevell likes to run it early, run it late, run it often, and then run to the showers.  He has a young, top 10, non-choke artist for a QB, and that QB attempts the fewest passes in the NFL.  Pre-Wilson in '10-'11, the Seahawks offense under the stewardship of Carroll and Bevell was worse than the '09-'11 Jets.

 

The sad thing is there were no other options to go with other than 2 raw, drafted QBs, at least one of whom is established as flat-out bust of a draft pick.  Vick will represent the only legitimate option Ryan has had at the position in 6 seasons. The reality is there were no other options.  The best we had were: Clemens (probably the best of the bunch), Brunell (hadn't started a meaningful game since getting benched like 4-5 years prior), Greg McElroy, and (lest we forget) Tim Tebow.  To cry about the lack of "development" at the position is laughable, given the players on the roster.  Time may show that Smith is no better, but at least Vick - for all his faults - is a legitimate NFL QB (even if an unreliable one).

 

I'm quite sure Rex was in on the personnel decisions, but ultimately, scouting and drafting QBs is not his job.  Nor would anyone expect that to fall under the expertise of a new (or relatively new) HC whose area of expertise is on the other side of the ball.  I don't for a minute think or claim that Ryan is some pure victim of circumstance, but to credit so many others for being so superior, when the talent at QB is so lopsided in their favor, is not an intellectually honest comparison IMO. 

 

Basically this:

 

If the HC is going to be relied upon to scout QBs for the team, then we may as well fire him.  However, if paired with a decent QB - which, again, he's never had - and an at least average OC, I think Ryan is a decent enough HC to win a SB.  No different than Carroll or Harbaugh.  

 

If paired with a GM/OC/QBC with a keen eye for the position, I absolutely think we can be a winner.  And with a coach like Ryan, we don't need a top 5-10 QB to get there IMO.  But we do need a top-20 QB and probably a top-15 one at that. 

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I was wondering why everyone was mocking the pick of TomShane for the podcast gig but after reading his rant on Rex, I get it. Holy smokes, I listened to the podcast and thought he was a comedian, like a schtick, because what he was saying was so off base and just dumb ass Jet fan stuff. But I guess what he says is for real?. He can't really think this sutff, right? He just boxed himself into a corner and now he just has to go with it? Its the nutiest stuff I have ever heard/listen to in all my years of following sports. And I I am not in love with Rex the head coach either., just the coordinator. Man, just find another team because you are lost. And thanks for ruining the podcast, I had to delete it.

What are your thoughts on Integrity28 desperately trying to make this thread about himself in the post that immediately preceded yours?

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My question to Tom was, when exactly did he go sour on Rex?  What was the turning point. 

 

I get you can change your opinion on someone...but as you can see, he wasnt this adamant Rex hater from day 1.  Therefore, we can conclude that Tom is a liar.

 

 

And a moron

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He changed at the point this past season where Rex closed the season on a high note and got retained, and the general consensus amongst fans was that "he's alright". 

 

Probably around the time I stopped crapping on Rex, Tom started.  

 

Jet Nation continues to be an Ape centric universe, nearly everything that happens can be attributed to a reaction to something the ape did

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Pettine told a story of how, at Wes Welker’s wedding, Tom Brady bragged a little bit to Jets outside linebackers coach Mike Smith, who was Welker’s college roommate, that the Patriots may or may not have had possession of a couple Jets defensive playbooks.

“It didn’t shock me because Rex would give them out like candy anyway,” Pettine says. “He gave one out to [Alabama coach Nick] Saban and I was like, ‘Don’t you know Saban and Bill [belichick] are pretty good friends? I have a feeling it’s going to end up in New England.’”

 

oh boy. 

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oh boy. 

yup IMO Pettine did this due to a bruised ego. Rex took Def play calling away from him midseason 2 yrs in row. Jets D improved in both cases. Rex said he would do play calling form Game One in 2014 and voila, LooseLips leaves Jets.

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Rex fans-so your logic is that one expressed the opintion that Rex once in 2010 or 2009 did a very good job, that opinion should hold forever, no further information need be processed nor considered, and the holder of said old opinion is forever locked into that opinion and cannot ever change his mind. And any attempt to look at all that has happened since and take that into account  is also invalid . 

 

None of which changes the fact Ryan is still here because the owner(who loves him) practically mandated it. Again, anoither example of decisions and choices being precluded by the owner and really the coach as well, if to a lesser degree. And we are about to waste another season watching Ryan screw the pooch. 

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yup IMO Pettine did this due to a bruised ego. Rex took Def play calling away from him midseason 2 yrs in row. Jets D improved in both cases. Rex said he would do play calling form Game One in 2014 and voila, LooseLips leaves Jets.

The crux of Pettine's problem was Rex basically bringing in a drinking buddy who reported to Pettine and did....nothing but hang out with Rex.And Weeks is still here.

 

 

"Another source of unease was the one defensive coach who hadn’t made the trip to Indianapolis—Jeff Weeks. Weeks was Ryan’s best friend from college, a man Ryan cared so much for that he called him his other twin. As the coaches knew firsthand, there was nothing Ryan wouldn’t do for Weeks.

After college, Weeks had spent years coaching at places like Fort Scott Community College (in Kansas) and Trinity Valley Community College (in Texas). Then, in 1998, Ryan became the defensive coordinator at Oklahoma, and he hired Weeks to be an assistant. Weeks slept on an air mattress in the defensive meeting room that year. When it got late, the Sooners defensive coaches turned on music and danced. When the weather was bad, they went looking for tornados. They never found one.

Ten years later, Weeks was divorced, had a young son in South Texas, and was at loose ends. Ryan’s twin brother, Rob, then the defensive coordinator for the Raiders, learned that his team had a coaching fellowship available for minority candidates. Rob thought of Weeks, who, he noted, “has got a drop of Indian blood.” Weeks lived with Rob that year. In the winter of 2009, Ryan became the Jets coach. Weeks was hired to work as a defensive assistant and given a fine office and a salary to match. When the Ryans bought a house in New Jersey, Weeks moved into the attic guest room, called the Crow’s Nest by Ryan. Ryan’s thinking was “He’s never made a lot of money. Now he can save some. I’d do it for any coach.”

As a coach, Weeks was enthusiastic on the practice field with the players, charging around full of brio. His role as Ryan’s comic foil made for merriment, good to have on taxing football afternoons. During coverage review, Ryan would scoop up a football, motion Weeks into formation and throw him passes while linebackers tried to intercept them. Footballs sprayed everywhere, along with advice: “Weeks! You got to grow or something!” Mark Carrier said with approval: “When I played, I never saw coaches doing things like that.”

But much of the job of coaching in the NFL took place within offices and classrooms, in meetings and on computers. Modern football coaches couldn’t have done their jobs without constant reliance on computers, which analyzed every aspect of the game for them and also served as their means for exchanging information. They used computers to break down and dissect the game film of opponents; on computers they built the game plans, and on computers they drew the opponent’s best plays after choosing them from the film breakdowns. These drawings were then printed out on cards and run live by the players in practice. Jeff Weeks did not fully understand the new programs that allowed football coaches to do all this. Perhaps he didn’t want to. He said he considered computers the “inefficient” tools of “desk coaches,” making Weeks at this point similar to a nineteenth-century textile worker railing against automated looms.  (would note here my son's high school football and lax teams all use ipods to review everything with the coaches. This is no unusual, not for his school not for any school. It's done also in basketball, soccer, baseball. swimming,rugby and I imagine in eery sport that people play competitively; bitching about being asked to use a computer as a tool in coaching borders on NOT DOING YOUR JOB, but Rex allowed this) Nor did he have much regard for the single-mindedness of those around him. “Football’s football,” he would say. “They’re putting people on the moon who work less than us. Guys who operate on brains work less.” More than the other coaches, Weeks explored New Jersey; he ventured into the ethnic neighborhoods of Newark and Brooklyn and even started to learn Portuguese. There were those in the organization who thought Weeks was plenty smart and more clever than most people gave him credit for. Others sympathized with him, saying that Ryan had placed Weeks in “a horrible position.” But they also said that, given the opportunity Ryan had presented to such an inexperienced professional coach, Weeks ought to be the hardest-working man in the building.

Weeks reported to Pettine. Pettine was all about winning. He thought that since so many uncontrollable variables decided whether or not a football team would be successful, it was vital to control what variables you could. Pettine believed Jeff Weeks was impeding the Jets’ chances to be successful. In midseason of 2010, Pettine wrote and distributed a ten-point memo entitled “Coach like a Jet” that detailed his expectations for defensive coaches. These included “Can grade their players bluntly and honestly based on detailed knowledge of each defensive call” and “Completes their weekly scouting report assignment and practice cards professionally and on time.” He did this because Weeks was falling short in many areas, and Pettine wanted Weeks to understand what was expected of him; he also wanted to spare Ryan what he knew would be a painful confrontation. Mostly, Weeks concentrated on keeping out of Pettine’s way, and in the daily defensive meetings led by Pettine, he refrained from saying a word.

Ryan never deviated from his conviction that Weeks was “a good coach,” but he also used Weeks to communicate both his belief in loyalty and his belief that football was foremost a game, and if you removed the pleasure and valued only effort, you were lost. Among the other coaches it was understood that Weeks was in Florham Park because he was Ryan’s confidant. Such relationships are common on NFL teams because the top job is inherently stressful, and during the inevitable low times, it’s attractive for the head coach to have somebody of unquestioned devotion thirty steps away. Ryan had grown up in a unique way and had uncommon qualities, and the feeling around Florham Park was that if Weeks’s company helped make the headman’s life better and Ryan wanted Weeks around, then so be it.

Some of these matters were discussed late at night in Indianapolis. It was an awkward, perplexing predicament, and now also worrisome. Weeks was not on the trip because he was taking a little time away from the team to resolve some personal problems. The previous year Weeks had worked with the outside linebackers. In Pettine’s view, “suddenness” was not all the Jets lacked at the position. The edge pass rushers needed better coaching. So leading the outside linebackers was now going to be Smitty’s job, and Weeks would assist Carrier with the defensive linemen. And Weeks would no longer be living with the Ryans. Weeks was a lively bachelor, and with a teenage son in the house, the Ryans had decided it would be better for their old friend to have a place of his own. As for Ryan, he hoped that when Weeks returned, everyone would just get along. Why can’t they? he wondered. It was the NFL. They’d reached the cusp of the Super Bowl in each of their first two years. There was enough here for everyone"

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If you don't think that Harbaugh and Carroll - and many others - got dramatically luckier in the QB sweepstakes I don't know what to tell you.

Harbaugh is in no way a de facto GM or QB scout in Baltimore. He gets the players that Ozzie Newsome gives him. Flacco isn't even so awesome, but he's at least average or slightly above so. One could argue that, with his tools and experience, by now he should be far better than he is. And even still, it took him being in an impossibly-great zone during the playoffs to win it. This was nearly outdone by Baltimore's special teams giving up 2 TDs in the same game, despite Harbaugh being a special teams coach prior to his promotion. You think Harbaugh is the one who has spent countless hours going over film and footwork with Flacco, or was even at his pro day? If you think so, you're the only one who does. Harbaugh was nowhere near there. Ozzie sent him to go see Leodis McKelvin instead, since he was a ST coach and DB coach with zero experience scouting or working with QBs.

Carroll is no great offensive mind, and it's debatable that he's half as good or knowledgeable as he gets credit for being. Bevell is 100% running that offense there, as evidenced by his trademark stamp of only passing the ball when absolutely necessary; this philosophy isn't that different from Ryan's. The one year he changed his stripes was when Favre had as good a season as he's ever had (after getting removed from Mangini, lol). Absent that kind of play from his QB, Bevell likes to run it early, run it late, run it often, and then run to the showers. He has a young, top 10, non-choke artist for a QB, and that QB attempts the fewest passes in the NFL. Pre-Wilson in '10-'11, the Seahawks offense under the stewardship of Carroll and Bevell was worse than the '09-'11 Jets.

The sad thing is there were no other options to go with other than 2 raw, drafted QBs, at least one of whom is established as flat-out bust of a draft pick. Vick will represent the only legitimate option Ryan has had at the position in 6 seasons. The reality is there were no other options. The best we had were: Clemens (probably the best of the bunch), Brunell (hadn't started a meaningful game since getting benched like 4-5 years prior), Greg McElroy, and (lest we forget) Tim Tebow. To cry about the lack of "development" at the position is laughable, given the players on the roster. Time may show that Smith is no better, but at least Vick - for all his faults - is a legitimate NFL QB (even if an unreliable one).

I'm quite sure Rex was in on the personnel decisions, but ultimately, scouting and drafting QBs is not his job. Nor would anyone expect that to fall under the expertise of a new (or relatively new) HC whose area of expertise is on the other side of the ball. I don't for a minute think or claim that Ryan is some pure victim of circumstance, but to credit so many others for being so superior, when the talent at QB is so lopsided in their favor, is not an intellectually honest comparison IMO.

Basically this:

If the HC is going to be relied upon to scout QBs for the team, then we may as well fire him. However, if paired with a decent QB - which, again, he's never had - and an at least average OC, I think Ryan is a decent enough HC to win a SB. No different than Carroll or Harbaugh.

If paired with a GM/OC/QBC with a keen eye for the position, I absolutely think we can be a winner. And with a coach like Ryan, we don't need a top 5-10 QB to get there IMO. But we do need a top-20 QB and probably a top-15 one at that.

I think Carroll and Harbaugh run their teams like adults. I don't think either of them would get bitch-slapped by the likes of Santonio Holmes for three years. I don't think either of them would allow Mark Sanchez to hold their programs hostage for four years. I think it took guts for Carroll to start Russell Wilson and I think Harbaugh gets a lot out of a Phil Simms-like QB in Flacco. In that way, equating Rex to those two isn't a worthwhile enterprise. I get the argument that if Rex had a plus QB, we might be in the mix but you could say that about 98% of failed head coaches. Give Bruce Coslet Dan Marino and he might have won a title. Hell, if Chad doesn't get hurt, the Herm Era would look different...maybe.

My thing is this--the team has had the same issues every year Rex has been here and I don't think that's a coincidence. He's a deeply flawed coach with dubious leadership skills who will need to be propped up like a jellyfish just to get to the point where the Jets are contenders again.

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