Vick and CJ1K are the answer

[Sperm Edwards]

I just don't think that's gonna happen. I don't think Vick is that good, and I don't think Geno is that bad. Yes, statistically he was terrible last year, but he had no business starting in the first place, and had next to nothing to throw to for much of the season. He was something like 8-4 when Jeremy Kerley was in the lineup, and while I like Kerley as a player, it's not like he's some superstar. I think with a year of experience under his belt and an improved cast around him that Geno will be much improved this year. And really, how good do you have to be to beat out a guy who's a career 56% passer with problems throwing interceptions and fumbling the ball? Especially when that guy is now clearly on the downside of his career? The answer is not all that good.

Chris Johnson is gonna help Geno, I'll give you that. Having a starting RB who can't catch a pass would be a problem for any QB, having a speedy guy back there who can serve as a safety valve is a huge plus.

 

Yeah, I think that if everything else was in place that Smith was still wholly unready to be a starter from game 1. Now compound that unready introduction to the league with the knowledge that we weren't anywhere close to having everything in place. At best we had a slot receiver in place and...well actually that's it.  

 

• The OL was pretty bad (couple of good games skews the majority of games where they were meh or worse).
• Holmes was once a talented receiver; I don't know what his physical ceiling was last year other than to say it's lower than it was pre-injury. And I'm sure he did Smith no favors from the neck up.
• Hill had a good first few games (statistically), despite being limited or in pain physically, as Mornhinweg now admits. Then he got concussed 10 seconds into week 4 and he never bounced back.
• Nelson wasn't there to start, had a pair of 80-yard games in October, and though he finished strong as far as Jets WRs go, he still wasn't exactly a beast (not that Geno helped him out much numbers-wise).
• Other WRs had some pretty brutal drops - Gates in particular - but I don't think Geno was the victim of drops more so than other QBs in the league. Certainly nothing like what Brady had to contend with. But in between the actual drops they did have (if the ball was actually thrown to them), this crew wasn't particularly doing Smith any favors: Gates, Salas, Hakim.  Like that guy in the office reading the camp invite list for the Indians from Major League. I'm expecting to come across a name from the '13 Jets WR corps and point out, "This guy here is dead."
• TEs had health and/or suspension issues for most of the season. At 100% healthy, the best we got was the soldier providing Smith with an effective safety valve for a couple of games. Zach Sudfeld actually started 3 games. Hey, his 5 catches on the season were 5 more than he caught with New England before they cut him. *sigh*
• RBs weren't exactly playmakers catching the ball.  Though Powell clearly outshone Ivory in this regard, and was at least somewhat competent as a receiver, he's hardly anything special.  Had one nice, long play when there was a ton of daylight in front of him. 

Things can always get worse, no matter how many times people say they can't be.  But looking at that '13 group of pass catchers, it can't possibly be as bad this year, let alone worse.  We don't exactly have the full arsenal of '13 Broncos targets, but compared to last year's crew they might seem so in relative terms.

[SouthernJet]

Yeah, I think that if everything else was in place that Smith was still wholly unready to be a starter from game 1. Now compound that unready introduction to the league with the knowledge that we weren't anywhere close to having everything in place. At best we had a slot receiver in place and...well actually that's it.  

 

• The OL was pretty bad (couple of good games skews the majority of games where they were meh or worse).
• Holmes was once a talented receiver; I don't know what his physical ceiling was last year other than to say it's lower than it was pre-injury. And I'm sure he did Smith no favors from the neck up.
• Hill had a good first few games (statistically), despite being limited or in pain physically, as Mornhinweg now admits. Then he got concussed 10 seconds into week 4 and he never bounced back.
• Nelson wasn't there to start, had a pair of 80-yard games in October, and though he finished strong as far as Jets WRs go, he still wasn't exactly a beast (not that Geno helped him out much numbers-wise).
• Other WRs had some pretty brutal drops - Gates in particular - but I don't think Geno was the victim of drops more so than other QBs in the league. Certainly nothing like what Brady had to contend with. But in between the actual drops they did have (if the ball was actually thrown to them), this crew wasn't particularly doing Smith any favors: Gates, Salas, Hakim.  Like that guy in the office reading the camp invite list for the Indians from Major League. I'm expecting to come across a name from the '13 Jets WR corps and point out, "This guy here is dead."
• TEs had health and/or suspension issues for most of the season. At 100% healthy, the best we got was the soldier providing Smith with an effective safety valve for a couple of games. Zach Sudfeld actually started 3 games. Hey, his 5 catches on the season were 5 more than he caught with New England before they cut him. *sigh*
• RBs weren't exactly playmakers catching the ball.  Though Powell clearly outshone Ivory in this regard, and was at least somewhat competent as a receiver, he's hardly anything special.  Had one nice, long play when there was a ton of daylight in front of him. 

Things can always get worse, no matter how many times people say they can't be.  But looking at that '13 group of pass catchers, it can't possibly be as bad this year, let alone worse.  We don't exactly have the full arsenal of '13 Broncos targets, but compared to last year's crew they might seem so in relative terms.

we finally have a safety valve for Geno/Vick which we didnt in 2013..CJ and Amaro.

[kelticwizard]

I think it goes above safety valve.  Ivory is a pretty good runner, Powell is a nice substitute, but since LaDainian the Jets have needed a back so swift that when it's 2nd and 8 the defense has to adjust somewhat to account for them.  Even if it's just a linebacker lining up a step or two forward to stop the possible run, (thereby making him less effective in pass coverage), the ability to hit the hole super quick then take it upfield keeps a defense less able to consistently play the pass.  An extra window here, a nice 8 yard run there, five plays working nicely in a row and the defense is back on its heels.  CJ doesn't have to be in every play, he doesn't even have to be the #1 runner.  Play the role  #1A like Tomlinson or Washington will give the QB enormous help.

[Sperm Edwards]

I think it goes above safety valve.  Ivory is a pretty good runner, Powell is a nice substitute, but since LaDainian the Jets have needed a back so swift that when it's 2nd and 8 the defense has to adjust somewhat to account for them.  Even if it's just a linebacker lining up a step or two forward to stop the possible run, (thereby making him less effective in pass coverage), the ability to hit the hole super quick then take it upfield keeps a defense less able to consistently play the pass.  An extra window here, a nice 8 yard run there, five plays working nicely in a row and the defense is back on its heels.  CJ doesn't have to be in every play, he doesn't even have to be the #1 runner.  Play the role  #1A like Tomlinson or Washington will give the QB enormous help.

Agreed.

[Bleedin Green]

the good news is unlike most messageboard disagreements, we will get the answer to this one. let's see how the two perform in camp and pre-season. if i am wrong i will admit it. my prediction is vick will outplay geno significantly but the jets will roll with geno. you can necro this thread and throw it in my face if vick fails to outperform geno. i am not a soothsayer but as a gambler i'd put my money on vick hard.

 

The problem with this is that it assumes there not being any massively skewed perceptions based on people's existing opinions.  It's safe to say that there are people on this board who have proven a strong enough outright hatred for Geno, it won't matter how they actually perform, they'll rant on about how much better Vick is/was and how Geno didn't deserve the job.  And of course the same goes for those who hate Vick, as they'll do similarly even if he does perform much better.

 

Just look at last year, while Geno was admittedly hot garbage in the preseason, the real absurdity was that there people using that as an excuse to suck off Sanchez, who was coming off of 4 years of playing like sh*t and was absolutely AWFUL in the preseason too, just not quite as awful as Geno.  For crying out loud, the guy's first pass of the preseason was a pick 6 to a DL (something Sanchez has a real knack for).

 

The point being, if people could come up with reasons to praise Sanchez's sorry ass last year, they'll do the same for whichever one of the Jets current QBs they have the biggest hard-on for, be it Geno or Vick, or hell even Simms or Boyd.  The bottom line though is that none of this really matters unless one of them significantly outperforms the others.  If it's anywhere close to even, they're obviously going to go with Geno.  The only way this disagreement actually gets settled in preseason is if Geno, and just Geno, is infinitely better than absolutely every other QB on the roster.  Otherwise, you can be certain it will continue on.  Although I'm sure someone would come up with a reason to argue about it even then, because well... it's JN and that's what we do.

[jgb]

The problem with this is that it assumes there not being any massively skewed perceptions based on people's existing opinions.  It's safe to say that there are people on this board who have proven a strong enough outright hatred for Geno, it won't matter how they actually perform, they'll rant on about how much better Vick is/was and how Geno didn't deserve the job.  And of course the same goes for those who hate Vick, as they'll do similarly even if he does perform much better.

 

Just look at last year, while Geno was admittedly hot garbage in the preseason, the real absurdity was that there people using that as an excuse to suck off Sanchez, who was coming off of 4 years of playing like sh*t and was absolutely AWFUL in the preseason too, just not quite as awful as Geno.  For crying out loud, the guy's first pass of the preseason was a pick 6 to a DL (something Sanchez has a real knack for).

 

The point being, if people could come up with reasons to praise Sanchez's sorry ass last year, they'll do the same for whichever one of the Jets current QBs they have the biggest hard-on for, be it Geno or Vick, or hell even Simms or Boyd.  The bottom line though is that none of this really matters unless one of them significantly outperforms the others.  If it's anywhere close to even, they're obviously going to go with Geno.  The only way this disagreement actually gets settled in preseason is if Geno, and just Geno, is infinitely better than absolutely every other QB on the roster.  Otherwise, you can be certain it will continue on.  Although I'm sure someone would come up with a reason to argue about it even then, because well... it's JN and that's what we do.

 

i understand people are biased, my allegiences are torn. i want geno to be better than vick but i think vick will be better than geno. the two views pull at each other. i stand by my prediction that vick will vastly outperform geno. of course the jets could and probably will stack the deck against vick and put geno in with first string and vick with the second. that way there is a built-in rationale to go with geno no matter what happens of "well vick was playing against second string defense." i don't know how the jets will deploy the two, i am just predicting vick will outperform be it with the first or second string. 

[lancemehl]

Yeah, if the question is, "Who are two of the older and more washed up players on the Jets' roster?"

I don't understand how CJ is " washed up" He just rushed for over 1000 yards hurt. He's 29.

I understand RBs have short life-spans but for this guy washed up means not fantastic.

Vick is a different story.

[lancemehl]

I think it goes above safety valve. Ivory is a pretty good runner, Powell is a nice substitute, but since LaDainian the Jets have needed a back so swift that when it's 2nd and 8 the defense has to adjust somewhat to account for them. Even if it's just a linebacker lining up a step or two forward to stop the possible run, (thereby making him less effective in pass coverage), the ability to hit the hole super quick then take it upfield keeps a defense less able to consistently play the pass. An extra window here, a nice 8 yard run there, five plays working nicely in a row and the defense is back on its heels. CJ doesn't have to be in every play, he doesn't even have to be the #1 runner. Play the role #1A like Tomlinson or Washington will give the QB enormous help.

Yes