use2Jet Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 false At the time Plaxico was signed, Edwards was still after #1 (or high #2) type money. Cotchery was supposedly yammering behind the scenes since before the lockout that if he wasn't starting that he wanted out. So the Jets drafted Kerley, and then they still waited until they picked up Mason before granting Cotchery his wish. Cotchery then signed on with Pittsburgh as their #4 WR. Your retelling of history is a total fabrication with no basis, even in rumors that flew around at the time. My biggest single gripe with Ryan was his nonstop belief in Sanchez, but truthfully we'll never truly know how much of that was real belief and how much was for show. Sanchez was the kid that the GM went all-in on, and who was a celebrity QB that the team's owner publicly said he'd never again not-have (after seeing all the Favre attention). Plus Sanchez was a mopey emo invertebrate, who passed on blame to others for games he blew, while downplaying his own garbage performance, and probably wouldn't respond to tough love anyway. A stupid man would publicly say he has no belief in the QB his two bosses bet on, and would bench said player for an absolute non-option like Clemens, Brunell, Tebow, or McElroy. Benching Sanchez would be as much a message to the guys who have the power to fire him as much as to Sanchez. I'm not suggesting that behind the scenes Ryan was the voice of reason whose brilliance fell upon the deaf ears of Tannenbaum and Johnson. Far from it. I think he genuinely liked the kid personally and - like the players themselves who also saw Sanchez day in & day out - was teased by some good/great throws here and there, not to mention the narrative that he took the team to the playoffs twice. The captain thing wasn't brilliance, but the fans on message boards make more of it than it really was. Team captains have no real authority. He used it in an effort to get these two to grow up, which to me suggests he thinks they needed it. Truth is, Sanchez probably did take to that vote of confidence a bit. He started holding QB/receiver meetings mid-season and other things like that. Holmes, of course, felt that was beneath him and as I recall he blew it off. Following that season, Ryan announced there would be no team captains. I respectfully disagree with the majority of your stance. But that is OK by me , I don't think we can all agree all the time, and you are entitled to your opinion. Unlike others, I don't attack when I disagree with a post on a Jets message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Don't you pay attention? I just want to add that I can't read this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I just want to add that I can't read this post. Im sure you can read it..... That is not really the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 20 years ago, my friday nights were WAY BETTER than this, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I respectfully disagree with the majority of your stance. But that is OK by me , I don't think we can all agree all the time, and you are entitled to your opinion. Unlike others, I don't attack when I disagree with a post on a Jets message board. Disagree with what? Did you not follow the Jets at the time? Edwards made over $6M on a RFA tag. He wanted a long-term deal, particularly from the Jets. Tannenbaum signed Holmes instead, and Holmes was - by far - the more in-demand player between the two. Hell, even the discussion here, at the time, was that we could have probably gotten Edwards for only a little bit more than we signed Burress for ($3M). Of course we now know that the best offer Edwards got was an incentive-laden deal from the 49ers, as the 4th or 5th option on their anemic passing attack. But back then? Edwards made damn good money when he was tagged, and in that year had 900+ yds, 7 TDs, and not-awful numbers in the post-season despite a waste of space at QB. He wanted high #2 money ($5M+) at a minimum after we signed Holmes, and initially wanted even more. And that is why we didn't sign him. Tannenbaum wasn't going to miss out on whatever was left out there while Edwards slowly came off his unrealistic demands. I'm even giving Tannenbaum this credit even though I don't exactly have a high opinion of the guy. But of all the things that it wasn't, it wasn't Rex Ryan playing the de facto GM, refusing to bring back Edwards, who was actually productive even with consuela. The Cotchery situation is pretty well known as being precisely as I laid it out. Doubting it is on you, and your desire to put your own spin on things, even in the face of everything reported to the contrary. Ryan liked Cotchery fine. Everyone did. But Cotchery felt he'd earned the #2 job outright. Now that I'm remembering more, I think the reason was that he wanted a raise from his scheduled salary for the year based on that. Whether it was Tannenbaum or Tannenbaum and Ryan together, they felt like they wanted to try for an upgrade as a starter. But they were happy enough to keep him at his (then reasonable) cap number. Unfortunately, their upgrade was Burress, and Cotchery was still miserable. So Ryan advocated Mason, who was productive every year of his career up to that point. Unfortunately, he was a colossal blunder of a pickup, as he combined a bad attitude with hitting the wall in his career. In the end it didn't matter that much because his departure opened the door for Kerley to get needed playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Disagree with what? Did you not follow the Jets at the time? Edwards made over $6M on a RFA tag. He wanted a long-term deal, particularly from the Jets. Tannenbaum signed Holmes instead, and Holmes was - by far - the more in-demand player between the two. Hell, even the discussion here, at the time, was that we could have probably gotten Edwards for only a little bit more than we signed Burress for ($3M). Of course we now know that the best offer Edwards got was an incentive-laden deal from the 49ers, as the 4th or 5th option on their anemic passing attack. But back then? Edwards made damn good money when he was tagged, and in that year had 900+ yds, 7 TDs, and not-awful numbers in the post-season despite a waste of space at QB. He wanted high #2 money ($5M+) at a minimum after we signed Holmes, and initially wanted even more. And that is why we didn't sign him. Tannenbaum wasn't going to miss out on whatever was left out there while Edwards slowly came off his unrealistic demands. I'm even giving Tannenbaum this credit even though I don't exactly have a high opinion of the guy. But of all the things that it wasn't, it wasn't Rex Ryan playing the de facto GM, refusing to bring back Edwards, who was actually productive even with consuela. The Cotchery situation is pretty well known as being precisely as I laid it out. Doubting it is on you, and your desire to put your own spin on things, even in the face of everything reported to the contrary. Ryan liked Cotchery fine. Everyone did. But Cotchery felt he'd earned the #2 job outright. Now that I'm remembering more, I think the reason was that he wanted a raise from his scheduled salary for the year based on that. Whether it was Tannenbaum or Tannenbaum and Ryan together, they felt like they wanted to try for an upgrade as a starter. But they were happy enough to keep him at his (then reasonable) cap number. Unfortunately, their upgrade was Burress, and Cotchery was still miserable. So Ryan advocated Mason, who was productive every year of his career up to that point. Unfortunately, he was a colossal blunder of a pickup, as he combined a bad attitude with hitting the wall in his career. In the end it didn't matter that much because his departure opened the door for Kerley to get needed playing time. Nah, I was not really following it all, was not really that interested. My big beef with that whole situation was not really about Cotchery, I thought he did want more than he was worth. My problem was that we could have kept 2 of the 3. The reason we did not is because Rex felt that Sanchez was ready to carry the team, and he wanted to use that money to go after AsoICantSpellHisName. I think most of you live in lala land when it comes to the Tanny/Rex relationship. Yeah yeah, I know his title was GM, but he was the errand boy for Rex. I am not saying Rex was the college scout, but Rex made the decisions on what the roster was going to look like, and who was going to be signed. Saying Edwards never did anything after is revisionist history, he was in a bad spot for him and he got hurt, and has never been the same. There is no reason to assume he would have gotten hurt playing for the Jets. If anyone was watching Sanchez in 10, I don't see how in the hell they could have thought he was going to carry the team. Rex was, is and always will be obsessed with building the greatest defense he can, and it's ok if it comes at the expense of the offense. It also became very clear that Edwards was not going to get a big contract, and the Jets could have brought him back, and chose not to. Burress was a stupid signing, and his 8 TD's look great on paper, but he was an enormous liability anywhere outside the red zone. Burress never drew a roll of coverage, never, so Holmes always did. Sanchez needed wide open receivers, instead he got a doubled Holmes and a really tall turtle. Many of you also live in lala land if you think you can have a HC, who does not or should not have a major say in the way the roster decisions. In the age of the cap, there are big tradeoffs that have to be made. The GM should get the final say, but he needs to have major input from the HC, who is expected to win with the roster. If you don't have that, you don't have a good HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I don't pay atttention, but I'm always right interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I'm guessing you're aware of the irony in this post, right? Nep. Nep. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 No, we're saying this was a really bad football team. Something people don't want to admit, and that is the reason they did not perform well. Easy to say it's because of Rex, because that offers a quick fix. When in reality, what this team needed, and what has begun to happen, is a rebuild based on incremental growth. It was a decent football team that got rapidly, progressively worse under the direction of Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I don't pay atttention, but I'm always right interesting New trick called sarcasm, google it. I learned that google is not only for finding cute little gif and jpgs for message boards, but also for finding out about shtuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It was a decent football team that got rapidly, progressively worse under the direction of Rex. 50% Tannys fault and 50% Sanchez's fault, not Rex. Rex only gets credit for the good, like taking the worst assembled defense of all time, and coaching them up to a consistent dominating force. We are blessed to have him, KNOWLEDGE and stuffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'll freely admit right now that if the Jets don't get their sh*t together this year, you'll absolutely see me right there amongst those calling for his head. Please let us know when YOU have decided that it is OK to call for his head, then we will all know that it is OK with YOU, and that it is the right decision. BTW, what was your SAT score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Im sure you can read it..... That is not really the problem. I thought you were done with me? Or, is this like how you lost your passion for the Jets but not really. I guess this is your thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It was a decent football team that got rapidly, progressively worse under the direction of Rex. Which makes complete sense when you consider lack of draft picks, big contracts to aging, bad players, and terrible QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I thought you were done with me? Or, is this like how you lost your passion for the Jets but not really. I guess this is your thing? Yeah, that is my thing I guess, that and I am really dumb, what was your SAT score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Which makes complete sense when you consider lack of draft picks, big contracts to aging, bad players, and terrible QB play. And in your opinion, Rex takes zero blame for any of those things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yeah, that is my thing I guess, that and I am really dumb, what was your SAT score? You really are the cutest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You really are the cutest. awww, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 who is more fun to laugh at, user or teh falcon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 who is more fun to laugh at, user or teh falcon ? Definitely user, no doubt about it, he soooo dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 60 neg reps in a week must be a record, lol not everyone is cut out to be a Jets fan doesn't make you a bad guy makes you a giants fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 60 neg reps in a week must be a record, lol not everyone is cut out to be a Jets fan doesn't make you a bad guy makes you a giants fan Yeah, pretty impressive huh? That is what happens when you don't like the Jets version of Rocky, Jet fans get pissed! Especially that Arlis cat, he is responsible for about 58 of them, but he is waaaay behind, I have about another 100 posts that he can rep, son be disapointin. Yeah, I guess if you don't like Rex and Idzik, you must be a gints fan, logic n stuffz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC36 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Definitely user, no doubt about it, he soooo dumb. falcon was pretty dumb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 falcon was pretty dumb I wonder what his SAT score was? I bet he wasn't as dumb as me. Was he dumb enough to not like Rex AND Idzik? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC36 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I wonder what his SAT score was? I bet he wasn't as dumb as me. Was he dumb enough to not like Rex AND Idzik? he was dumb enough to like Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 he was dumb enough to like Tom Well, I think Tom is the best poster on the site, and its not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lol, I love how serious u take yourself and how smart u think u r, it's awesome! Keep on keepin on brother! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Once again 5-27, and also, your right Reid wanted play calling back and I wonder why. Maybe because Morhinweg isn't the genius you make him about to be? Also, really San Fran, he had freaking Steve Young. And please, Nick Foles turned into a completely different kind of qb under Kelly, in case you didn't watch him he was posting unreal numbers. Also, even Vick improved under Kelly. Maybe just maybe, Morhinweg isn't as great as you think he is, and I can make a pretty good prediction that if he keeps hanging on to Geno, he won't be around for long. I never once called Mornhinweg a "genius" or "great". I only cited his time in SF in response to your references to Turner's time in Dallas. You know, when Turner similarly had Troy Aikman (not to mention Emmitt Smith). So once again, you've attempted to use different criteria for your evaluation of the both of them in order to push an agenda. Yet you're only managing to simply further discredit your own argument in the process. As for Reid, he is quoted as endlessly raving about Mornhinweg, and your assertions otherwise have no basis. As far as Vick goes, the guy had the best season of his pro career under Mornhinweg, so I'm not sure what you're trying to sell there. And I'm sorry that you're incapable of grasping the inherent differences between a rookie and second year pro, but interesting that Kelly still didn't seem to think Foles was good enough to start, until he was forced into action due to Vick's injury. If you actually stop and look, none of these things I've said are even particular praises to Mornhinweg, rather it's simply pointing out how false your accusations are and how you're ultimately contradicting yourself. Just admit it, you have an already established personal opinion of some random player who has yet to step foot on an NFL field, and this is some inexplicable need to not only justify it, but assert it is the only possible opinion, while never actually talking about the player himself. Obviously you're a Bridgewater fan; it's your opinion, that's fine, just leave it at that. A combination of fabricated claims and contradictory logic isn't going to suddenly change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Disagree with what? Did you not follow the Jets at the time? Edwards made over $6M on a RFA tag. He wanted a long-term deal, particularly from the Jets. Tannenbaum signed Holmes instead, and Holmes was - by far - the more in-demand player between the two. Hell, even the discussion here, at the time, was that we could have probably gotten Edwards for only a little bit more than we signed Burress for ($3M). Of course we now know that the best offer Edwards got was an incentive-laden deal from the 49ers, as the 4th or 5th option on their anemic passing attack. But back then? Edwards made damn good money when he was tagged, and in that year had 900+ yds, 7 TDs, and not-awful numbers in the post-season despite a waste of space at QB. He wanted high #2 money ($5M+) at a minimum after we signed Holmes, and initially wanted even more. And that is why we didn't sign him. Tannenbaum wasn't going to miss out on whatever was left out there while Edwards slowly came off his unrealistic demands. I'm even giving Tannenbaum this credit even though I don't exactly have a high opinion of the guy. But of all the things that it wasn't, it wasn't Rex Ryan playing the de facto GM, refusing to bring back Edwards, who was actually productive even with consuela. The Cotchery situation is pretty well known as being precisely as I laid it out. Doubting it is on you, and your desire to put your own spin on things, even in the face of everything reported to the contrary. Ryan liked Cotchery fine. Everyone did. But Cotchery felt he'd earned the #2 job outright. Now that I'm remembering more, I think the reason was that he wanted a raise from his scheduled salary for the year based on that. Whether it was Tannenbaum or Tannenbaum and Ryan together, they felt like they wanted to try for an upgrade as a starter. But they were happy enough to keep him at his (then reasonable) cap number. Unfortunately, their upgrade was Burress, and Cotchery was still miserable. So Ryan advocated Mason, who was productive every year of his career up to that point. Unfortunately, he was a colossal blunder of a pickup, as he combined a bad attitude with hitting the wall in his career. In the end it didn't matter that much because his departure opened the door for Kerley to get needed playing time. Let's also not forget that Mason was signed only after Cotchery was already released, which had been done based on Cotchery's own demands. The best job offer Cotchery then got after that was the #4 in Pittsburgh. As you said, the Mason signing was still certainly a massive failure, but the reality of the circumstances surrounding it is a tad different than the story some try to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I never once called Mornhinweg a "genius" or "great". I only cited his time in SF in response to your references to Turner's time in Dallas. You know, when Turner similarly had Troy Aikman (not to mention Emmitt Smith). So once again, you've attempted to use different criteria for your evaluation of the both of them in order to push an agenda. Yet you're only managing to simply further discredit your own argument in the process. As for Reid, he is quoted as endlessly raving about Mornhinweg, and your assertions otherwise have no basis. As far as Vick goes, the guy had the best season of his pro career under Mornhinweg, so I'm not sure what you're trying to sell there. And I'm sorry that you're incapable of grasping the inherent differences between a rookie and second year pro, but interesting that Kelly still didn't seem to think Foles was good enough to start, until he was forced into action due to Vick's injury. If you actually stop and look, none of these things I've said are even particular praises to Mornhinweg, rather it's simply pointing out how false your accusations are and how you're ultimately contradicting yourself. Just admit it, you have an already established personal opinion of some random player who has yet to step foot on an NFL field, and this is some inexplicable need to not only justify it, but assert it is the only possible opinion, while never actually talking about the player himself. Obviously you're a Bridgewater fan; it's your opinion, that's fine, just leave it at that. A combination of fabricated claims and contradictory logic isn't going to suddenly change anything. By any chance, are you one of those mall cops ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 By any chance, are you one of those mall cops ? personal attack mods, please ban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 personal attack mods, please ban Personal attack?? I aspire to be a mall cop someday! I applied twice but have not gotten hired yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Well, I think Tom is the best poster on the site, and its not even close. ^5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Can't say that 09 and 10 were "luck," per se. It showed potential as a coach that he's never come close to fulfilling. This is a fanbase that once used the word "Mangenius" repeatedly. This was a fanbase that applauded and repeated the "HELLO, you PLAY to WIN the GAME" quote ad nauseum. Now they excoriate Herm and Mangini in divine revisionist fashion. The same will happen with Rex. The wheels go round and round. The way I used to call you a good poster? I think we're talking about what "losing the locker room means". To me, it means the team gives up on the coach. I do not think anything we've read indicates that the team gave up. Certainly, there were a couple of malcontents and problems, and that's far from something to be celebrated, but it's also not the reason for the current, or recent state of the team. There were issues in the locker room, no doubt, but it seemed to me that the team -both offense and defense- was giving up on Sanchez more than Rex. One of the things that the anti-Rex contingent seems to ignore is that Rex has learned on the job. He didnt coddle Geno the way he coddled Sanchez. The captain thing blew up in his face, now he doesn't name captains. You only need to look back as far as the end of last season to see the team cheering when Idzik announced that Rex would be staying. The losing the locker room thing is a thing of the past. Yeah yeah, I know his title was GM, but he was the errand boy for Rex. I am not saying Rex was the college scout, but Rex made the decisions on what the roster was going to look like, and who was going to be signed. No, I think the difference is that the people who continue to support Rex don't lay additional blame at his feet because he was asked to do his boss's job. Rex is no GM. I would never want Rex to be the GM of my team. He is an emotional and loyal guy, and the GM really needs to be more cold and calculating. Idzik had a fan club around here as soon as he was hired because those who hate Rex were dead certain that he would fire Rex as soon as he got the chance. He didn't. These guys are on the same page philosophically. Ditto for Mornhinweg. Rex screwed up big time with the Sporano hire, but corrected it immediately with Marty - a WCO guy who's much more run-orientated than your average WCO guy. It took a while. Schottenheimer (the runner up for the head coach at the time) was forced on Rex much in the Rex was forced on Idzik. But it feels, to me at least, like they might finally have the right mix in play at GM, HC, and OC. It was a decent football team that got rapidly, progressively worse under the direction of Rex. Yeah, like the way he turned Mangini's #18 ranked defense into the #1 unit in the league in his first season. Got the team back to the playoffs despite going from Favre to Sanchez at QB. It's just been a sh*tshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
use2Jet Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yeah, like the way he turned Mangini's #18 ranked defense into the #1 unit in the league in his first season. Got the team back to the playoffs despite going from Favre to Sanchez at QB. It's just been a sh*tshow. Coaches coach, players play... It was Bart Scott and the maturation of Revis that did this, not Rex. See how this works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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