Jump to content

ESPN POLL OF NFL EXECS NAMES GENO SMITH "WORST" STARTING QB IN NFL.


T0mShane
 Share

Recommended Posts

   Can someone name me a quarterback who showed less than Geno did last year who went on to have a decent career?

I can't think of another QB so hated by the press who actually went on to do positive things?

Eli sucked balls in his first few years and the press was talking about how long are the Giants going to wait to start over.

Edited by kelticwizard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where does EJ Manuel fall?

Don't know for sure, but here are the top 20 or so.  ESPN's list is behind a pay wall, but I got most of them from the following article:

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/7/2/5864469/espn-quarterback-rankings-2014-colin-kaepernick-russell-wilson

1.  Tom Brady

2. Peyton Manning

3. Aaron Rodgers

4. Drew Brees

5.  Andrew Luck

6. Philip Rivers - 1.77

7. Ben Roethlisberger - 1.85

t-8. Matt Ryan - 2.23

t-8. Tony Romo - 2.23

t-8. Russell Wilson - 2.23

t-8. Eli Manning - 2.23

12. Joe Flacco - 2.31

13. Matthew Stafford - 2.38

14. Colin Kaepernick - 2.50

15. Nick Foles - 2.56

16. Cam Newton

17.

18.Alex Smith

19t. Robert Griffin III

19t. Andy Dalton

 

Manuel is somewhere between 20 and 31.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eli sucked balls in his first few years and the press was talking about how long are the Giants going to wait to start over.

 

And Drew Brees' third season was almost as bad as Geno's rookie year. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike Vick is something like the 4th highest paid NY Jets player right now. I find it really hard to believe this uber-cheap Idzik team is going to pay vick 5 mil to hold a clipboard.

If you have a a functioning brain you have to recognize that Vick, a limited player and a flawed person, is here only because Idzik has serious doubts himself about Smith. Kind of hard to say Smith is going to be your QB and then brigng in Vick. There were other cheaper backup options, but really Vick is probably going to be starting by midseason.Basically expect Vick will either win the job in August or after a 5-6 week Smith tryout. Edited by Bugg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Drew Brees' third season was almost as bad as Geno's rookie year.

Again, as with the Mannings, we are getting a flood of Sanchez-like "So and so sucked in year 1 or 2 or 3 therefore Smith will be better" . Which does absolutely nothing to make Gino Smith better. Does anyone believe that? The GM does not,which is why Vick is here. Why do you reach for those miniscule few comps who turned it around instead of the statistically-significant legion of failsuck such as the Dave Browns, Akilis Smiths and David Klinglers? Those guys are the real comps. Edited by Bugg
Link to comment
Share on other sites

wasn't eli just on the top most overpaid list ?

 

 

1. Eli Manning, QB, New York Giants
2013 cap hit:
$20.8 million
2013 JVM: $5.4M
Value differential: $15.4M

It seemed as if Manning was improving year after year and had worked his way into the second tier of quarterbacks. He seemed to hit a peak in his Super Bowl season of 2011, and then took a minor step back in 2012. This was followed by 2013, which was a major step in the wrong direction.

Manning's accuracy percentage of 57.5 was second-worst among starting quarterbacks, and his inaccuracy led to 27 interceptions (more INTs than any QB has had in a season since 2005). He threw the ball better than average on intermediate and -- at times -- deep throws, which still made him worth a decent amount of money, but not anywhere close to his cap hit of $20.8 million.

He has two more years on his contract, where he is owed roughly the same amount in annual value as he was in 2013. He is 33, the age where quarterbacks typically start to decline, so even if he has a slight rebound, he would continue to be the most overpaid player in the NFL.

Edited by Larz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, as with the Mannings, we are getting a flood of Sanchez-like "So and so sucked in year 1 or 2 or 3 therefore Smith will be better" . Which does absolutely nothing to make Gino Smith better. Does anyone believe that? The GM does not,which is why Vick is here. Why do you reach for those miniscule few comps who turned it around instead of the statistically-significant legion of failsuck such as the Dave Browns, Akilis Smiths and David Klinglers? Those guys are the real comps.

Someone asked if there's ever been a QB as bad as Geno who's turned their career around. It's happened. That doesn't mean it's gonna happen with Geno, and I never even implied that it would.

Vick being here doesn't mean that the GM doesn't think Geno can turn it around, though. Vick means the GM is hedging his bets. If he had no faith at all in Geno, he would've taken one of those QBs in the first round. Or at least taken the best of what was left in the fourth. But he didn't do that. He signed an older vet to a one year deal and drafted a QB at the end of the 6th round. The OTAs have been run so far with Geno getting the vast majority of the first team snaps. Misplaced or not, the organization clearly has some faith in him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wasn't eli just on the top most overpaid list ?

 Perhaps, and the case could be made that Eli lucked into a winning organization that surrounded him with good talent and good coaching.  But he was a big part of the two Super Bowl wins against the team which was considered the class of the league until they ran into the Eli-led Giants.  Pats are still considered good, but they're not quite in the stratosphere that they'd be in had they won those two Super Bowls.  Overall, I think it's fair to say the Giants don't regret giving up two number 1 picks to get Eli.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Perhaps, and the case could be made that Eli lucked into a winning organization that surrounded him with good talent and good coaching.  But he was a big part of the two Super Bowl wins against the team which was considered the class of the league until they ran into the Eli-led Giants.  Pats are still considered good, but they're not quite in the stratosphere that they'd be in had they won those two Super Bowls.  Overall, I think it's fair to say the Giants don't regret giving up two number 1 picks to get Eli.

 

all true, but I was just pointing out the list was more or less a popularity contest, and not reflective of current skill and value.  even with the horrible line the vagina's have, he was making rookie decisions last year and is not a top 10 QB anymore

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all true, but I was just pointing out the list was more or less a popularity contest, and not reflective of current skill and value.  even with the horrible line the vagina's have, he was making rookie decisions last year and is not a top 10 QB anymore

No question he had a bad year.  I guess it's up the individual to decide if a QB, after several very good years, becomes a bad QB after one lousy year.  I agree that these lists can be taken with a grain of salt because one good year for a player can change his ranking drastically.  After all is said and done, on any given Sunday, how do you judge the difference between an elite QB and a very good one?  Would anybody be seriously surprised if Roethlisberger outplayed Rodgers on a Monday night?  Yet this list has them in separate tiers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone asked if there's ever been a QB as bad as Geno who's turned their career around. It's happened. That doesn't mean it's gonna happen with Geno, and I never even implied that it would.

Vick being here doesn't mean that the GM doesn't think Geno can turn it around, though. Vick means the GM is hedging his bets. If he had no faith at all in Geno, he would've taken one of those QBs in the first round. Or at least taken the best of what was left in the fourth. But he didn't do that. He signed an older vet to a one year deal and drafted a QB at the end of the 6th round. The OTAs have been run so far with Geno getting the vast majority of the first team snaps. Misplaced or not, the organization clearly has some faith in him.

Your only salient hope in bringing up one of the few who turned it arod is to somehow claim Smith could do it as well. Smith= Brees, Smith is therefore gonna be good. And comveneiently ignore the legion of faisuck QBs who in fact continued to suck. None of those teams brought in a vet the stature of Vick. And you back up your comparison with...help me out here...NOTHING.How exactly in Brees like Smith? Explain. Show your work. Cease talking out of your piehole if you do not have something to add here. But thanks for sharing.

The Jints jettisoned Kurt Warner. Eli Manning never had a backup brough in to cover for him. The Pats dumped Bledsose. Rivers was drafted by the Bolts to replace Brees. SO in each of the "QB X sucked in Year Y therefore Smith will be good now" comps,none of those 4 "good" comps brough in a vet to back up the new guy.

The Smith comps are in fact the suckfail ones.

Smith is a 2nd round pick who sucks. He beat 3 December tomato cans when they reduced the offense to a play action handoff fest.That is not gonna get it done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your only salient hope in bringing up one of the few who turned it arod is to somehow claim Smith could do it as well. Smith= Brees, Smith is therefore gonna be good. And comveneiently ignore the legion of faisuck QBs who in fact continued to suck. None of those teams brought in a vet the stature of Vick. And you back up your comparison with...help me out here...NOTHING.How exactly in Brees like Smith? Explain. Show your work. Cease talking out of your piehole if you do not have something to add here. But thanks for sharing.The Jints jettisoned Kurt Warner. Eli Manning never had a backup brough in to cover for him. The Pats dumped Bledsose. Rivers was drafted by the Bolts to replace Brees. SO in each of the "QB X sucked in Year Y therefore Smith will be good now" comps,none of those 4 "good" comps brough in a vet to back up the new guy.The Smith comps are in fact the suckfail ones.Smith is a 2nd round pick who sucks. He beat 3 December tomato cans when they reduced the offense to a play action handoff fest.That is not gonna get it done.

I didn't compare Geno to Brees. I answered a question. Brees, in his third year, was just about as bad statistically as Geno was in his rookie year. You're trying to extrapolate more from that answer, but there isn't any more.

I know you think you're the realist here, but the reality is that the team is doing all they can to go with Geno this season as the starter. I recognize that reality. It's easy to have no patience, and easy to be pessimistic. It's easy to whine and moan. I prefer not to live my life that way. I have no evidence that Geno is going to be better next year, but he's gonna be the starter, and I'd -personally- rather hold onto a little hope than cry in my cornflakes about it.

There are a lot of reasons Geno sucked last year. He did not come into the league NFL ready. He didn't join an established offense, the whole team was learning a new offense. As you may've heard, he had nothing in the way of weapons. Reasons for optimism include the year of experience now under his (and the entire offense's) belt, the improved cast around him, and his relatively strong finish against those tomato cans at the end of the year. You can piss on your own parade all you want. I'll enjoy my cautious optimism until Geno is pulled from the starting lineup for good. Then I'll start being optimistic about the QBs coming out in next year's draft.

Enjoy your storm cloud.

  • Upvote 2
  • Thumb Down 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't compare Geno to Brees. I answered a question. Brees, in his third year, was just about as bad statistically as Geno was in his rookie year. You're trying to extrapolate more from that answer, but there isn't any more.

I know you think you're the realist here, but the reality is that the team is doing all they can to go with Geno this season as the starter. I recognize that reality. It's easy to have no patience, and easy to be pessimistic. It's easy to whine and moan. I prefer not to live my life that way. I have no evidence that Geno is going to be better next year, but he's gonna be the starter, and I'd -personally- rather hold onto a little hope than cry in my cornflakes about it.

There are a lot of reasons Geno sucked last year. He did not come into the league NFL ready. He didn't join an established offense, the whole team was learning a new offense. As you may've heard, he had nothing in the way of weapons. Reasons for optimism include the year of experience now under his (and the entire offense's) belt, the improved cast around him, and his relatively strong finish against those tomato cans at the end of the year. You can piss on your own parade all you want. I'll enjoy my cautious optimism until Geno is pulled from the starting lineup for good. Then I'll start being optimistic about the QBs coming out in next year's draft.

Enjoy your storm cloud.

Wish I was at the beach. We both forgot the most obvious comp of all-Mark Sanchez.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your only salient hope in bringing up one of the few who turned it arod is to somehow claim Smith could do it as well. Smith= Brees, Smith is therefore gonna be good. And comveneiently ignore the legion of faisuck QBs who in fact continued to suck. None of those teams brought in a vet the stature of Vick. And you back up your comparison with...help me out here...NOTHING.How exactly in Brees like Smith? Explain. Show your work. Cease talking out of your piehole if you do not have something to add here. But thanks for sharing.

The Jints jettisoned Kurt Warner. Eli Manning never had a backup brough in to cover for him. The Pats dumped Bledsose. Rivers was drafted by the Bolts to replace Brees. SO in each of the "QB X sucked in Year Y therefore Smith will be good now" comps,none of those 4 "good" comps brough in a vet to back up the new guy.

The Smith comps are in fact the suckfail ones.

Smith is a 2nd round pick who sucks. He beat 3 December tomato cans when they reduced the offense to a play action handoff fest.That is not gonna get it done.

It's funny that you're trying (and failing) to portray slats as a guy who's dealing in absolutes, yet you're the one whose mind is already made up that Geno is a failed second round pick.

slats is saying that Geno might be able to turn it around. Not will, might. And he's using examples of other players who have done it to show that it is possible.

The organization obviously has enough confidence in Geno that they passed on every top prospect except Blake Bortles. Mornhinweg seems to really like him, and he's a guy who's had success with young QBs.

Vick is an insurance policy in case Geno doesn't improve. Signing him shows they aren't treating Geno with kid gloves, the way they did with Sanchez. He has to perform well, otherwise he'll be on the sidelines watching Vick on the field.

I don't see the negative in this situation.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No question he had a bad year.  I guess it's up the individual to decide if a QB, after several very good years, becomes a bad QB after one lousy year.  I agree that these lists can be taken with a grain of salt because one good year for a player can change his ranking drastically.  After all is said and done, on any given Sunday, how do you judge the difference between an elite QB and a very good one?  Would anybody be seriously surprised if Roethlisberger outplayed Rodgers on a Monday night?  Yet this list has them in separate tiers.

 

he puts the team on his back and wills them to a win.  hard to define, but we know it when we see it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny that you're trying (and failing) to portray slats as a guy who's dealing in absolutes, yet you're the one whose mind is already made up that Geno is a failed second round pick.

slats is saying that Geno might be able to turn it around. Not will, might. And he's using examples of other players who have done it to show that it is possible.

The organization obviously has enough confidence in Geno that they passed on every top prospect except Blake Bortles. Mornhinweg seems to really like him, and he's a guy who's had success with young QBs.

Vick is an insurance policy in case Geno doesn't improve. Signing him shows they aren't treating Geno with kid gloves, the way they did with Sanchez. He has to perform well, otherwise he'll be on the sidelines watching Vick on the field.

I don't see the negative in this situation.

Might. Perhaps. Maybe.

Conditional with nothing really to back it up.

By that logic, why even discuss his 1st putrid season at all?Is there anything beyond wishful and miracles that says Smith is going to be an NFL QB? I don't see it. What I see is a replay of 2009-2012.

Unless you change variables.Which is why VIck is here. Smith is now on a very short leash. If there is anything the franchise learned from Pick 6 it is to have a servicable alternative if it goes bad. None of the success stories Slats points out as vague possibilites have that variable.

I sat through the Jets/Panthers on a picture perfect day and watched Smith pretty much screw the pooch in a very winnable game. And then watched as the offense was dumbed down vs. 3 bad defenses so he wasn't given the chance to screw it up. This is what you are telling is is somehow a "late season improvement". Right.

That is called delusion, wishful thinking, ignoring unpleasant facts, confirmation bias. Apparently some of you didn't watch 2009 through 2012 inclusive.

And a GM who brought in a vet as a safety net. Does that sound like confidence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

he puts the team on his back and wills them to a win.  hard to define, but we know it when we see it

Okay, but it seems to me there are more than five QB's who can do that.  How about Roethlisberger-I'm sure we've all seen him do that.  Colin Kaepernick, #14, did that all the way to the Super Bowl in his second year.  There are others.  That's why it's hard to take this list seriously-it's more a collection of opinions on who's doing it well at the moment than anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just out of curiosity, what did you see in Drew Brees year three that indicated he was on the cusp of being a top QB in the league. Not comparing him to Geno at all, just pointing out that your wearing hindsight glasses and "might/maybe/perhaps" is all you get right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is called delusion, wishful thinking, ignoring unpleasant facts, confirmation bias. Apparently some of you didn't watch 2009 through 2012 inclusive.

Like I said, you can wallow to your heart's desire. It suits you. But Mark Sanchez sucking is no more "proof" that Geno will suck than Drew Brees turning it around is "proof" that Geno will turn it around. Again, not that I ever tried to make that claim, or anything like it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, but it seems to me there are more than five QB's who can do that.  How about Roethlisberger-I'm sure we've all seen him do that.  Colin Kaepernick, #14, did that all the way to the Super Bowl in his second year.  There are others.  That's why it's hard to take this list seriously-it's more a collection of opinions on who's doing it well at the moment than anything else.

 

maybe 5 guys do it all the time, 20 have the ability to do it occasionally.  the rest are still trying to get there.  geno is a bottom tier QB, just don't think he's the worst

 

hardly a ringing endorsement, lol

 

last year, eli and geno were twins of suckage

 

but pryor and weeden were worse !!!

 

lol

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Might. Perhaps. Maybe.

Conditional with nothing really to back it up.

By that logic, why even discuss his 1st putrid season at all?Is there anything beyond wishful and miracles that says Smith is going to be an NFL QB? I don't see it. What I see is a replay of 2009-2012.

The fact that Vick is here is proof that this will not be a replay of 2009-12. The Jets were all in on Sanchez with no viable alternative to speak of.

It's pretty simple: if Geno turns it around, then we have a young QB to build around. If he doesn't, there's a proven vet who they can turn to.

Unless you change variables.Which is why VIck is here. Smith is now on a very short leash. If there is anything the franchise learned from Pick 6 it is to have a servicable alternative if it goes bad. None of the success stories Slats points out as vague possibilites have that variable.

Not true. Drew Brees turned his career around after San Diego brought in Phillip Rivers.

The threat of losing your job can be a strong motivator.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that Vick is here is proof that this will not be a replay of 2009-12. The Jets were all in on Sanchez with no viable alternative to speak of.

It's pretty simple: if Geno turns it around, then we have a young QB to build around. If he doesn't, there's a proven vet who they can turn to.

Not true. Drew Brees turned his career around after San Diego brought in Phillip Rivers.

The threat of losing your job can be a strong motivator.

 

Does anyone seriously expect Geno to "turn it around"? What does that even mean? Lets say he's average. Anyone really believe that will take us anywhere but another 15-20 draft pick? This franchise has lost its way big time. Geno sucks, we all know it. Instead of taking a S that won't make a difference for at least 2-3 years we could have had Cooks, Teddy or JFF. Instead we're stuck with 2 terrible QB's who both have terrible accuracy, both are TO prone like theres no tomm and very bad pocket awareness. I'm sorry but people are just fooling themselves into believing we have any shot at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

maybe 5 guys do it all the time, 20 have the ability to do it occasionally.  the rest are still trying to get there.  geno is a bottom tier QB, just don't think he's the worst

 

hardly a ringing endorsement, lol

 

last year, eli and geno were twins of suckage

 

but pryor and weeden were worse !!!

 

lol

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

 

Interesting list.  I love it when sports sites take statistical nerds and set them loose upon the NFL.  You've got to take a college course to figure out what they use for ranking and even the "simple" explanation makes you throw your hands up after trying to read it seven times.    According to this list, Josh McCown, who couldn't beat out Henne as a rookie in Miami, is way, way better than Flacco or Eli.  Kellen Clemens too. LOL.

 

Guess you can't blame them.  The NFL itself uses a QB rating system that instead of ten or a hundred for perfect, it's 140 something with a decimal. 

 

I think I'm losing it, lol.

Edited by kelticwizard
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that the Jets did not take any QB until Boyd pretty much makes it clear they really believe in Geno. They had about 37 picks in the 4th, and Murray and Mccaron were both pretty good prospects to be available that late. I can understand them not loving any of the higher picked QB's, but those guys IMO were worth a flyer on over at least a few guys we took a flyer on in the 4th.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not the name in the uniform, but the uniform itself. This team is a śhitshow. Always has been. Always will be. .......and the Jets QB will always suck, no matter the player.

 

I don't think its the uniform, but rather the way this team has been run for 40+ years. Hess was a terrible owner, and Woody is almost as bad. We have had bad GM's and mostly bad HC's in that period, and the owners allow that to happen. Unfortunately we root for the laundry, but the owner is the biggest bottleneck. I mean, what kind of owner hires a GM under the premise that they have to keep the HC, and risks losing top candidates?? It is something only the bottom tier teams in the NFL would ever do. He should have hired a GM under the premise that the new GM gets to decide the HC's fate. If the new candidate chose to keep the HC, so be it, but at least you would not reduce the pool.

 

Its decisions like that, not the laundry that make the Jets an eternal failure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone seriously expect Geno to "turn it around"? What does that even mean? Lets say he's average. Anyone really believe that will take us anywhere but another 15-20 draft pick? This franchise has lost its way big time. Geno sucks, we all know it. Instead of taking a S that won't make a difference for at least 2-3 years we could have had Cooks, Teddy or JFF. Instead we're stuck with 2 terrible QB's who both have terrible accuracy, both are TO prone like theres no tomm and very bad pocket awareness. I'm sorry but people are just fooling themselves into believing we have any shot at all.

Yes because no QB in the history of the game ever improved off of their rookie season , obvz. I'm not saying it's a guarentee he will but we have to see how he performs in his 2nd year under this system with better surrounding pieces before we give up on him. If he sucks , we insert Vick and go back to QB hunting in next years draft or via FA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think its the uniform, but rather the way this team has been run for 40+ years. Hess was a terrible owner, and Woody is almost as bad. We have had bad GM's and mostly bad HC's in that period, and the owners allow that to happen. Unfortunately we root for the laundry, but the owner is the biggest bottleneck. I mean, what kind of owner hires a GM under the premise that they have to keep the HC, and risks losing top candidates?? It is something only the bottom tier teams in the NFL would ever do. He should have hired a GM under the premise that the new GM gets to decide the HC's fate. If the new candidate chose to keep the HC, so be it, but at least you would not reduce the pool.

 

Its decisions like that, not the laundry that make the Jets an eternal failure.

I don't see a problem with the owner telling a rookie gm to keep the head coach around for 1 year. idzik liked what he saw in rex last year enough to warrant an extention. as much as you have to keep an eye on rookie players and coaches, same can be said for rookie gm's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not the name in the uniform, but the uniform itself. This team is a śhitshow. Always has been. Always will be. .......and the Jets QB will always suck, no matter the player.

 

I feel bad for you but I respect you.  Your consistency is impressive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see a problem with the owner telling a rookie gm to keep the head coach around for 1 year. idzik liked what he saw in rex last year enough to warrant an extention. as much as you have to keep an eye on rookie players and coaches, same can be said for rookie gm's.

 

There are GM candidates who would not interview based on that. If the GM wants to keep the HC around, fine, but most good GM's are not going to want to come into a situation where the owner is meddling with a key decision before they even interview, its a sign of things to come. Good owners don't meddle, they are not football guys, they leave key football decisions like HC to the football guys. It is a terrible way to find a top candidate, that is why we are saddled with a second rate GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...