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Eric Allen: Name 6 AFC teams better than the Jets


Maxman

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You keep going on as though Ingram missed the entire season. He did not.  His knee injury was bad, but not as bad as others since he was back on the field within 6 months. He came back and played for a month and had 7 tackles (1 of them a sack of the great Matt McGloin whose speed may very well be rivaled by half the league's 300-lb DTs). Expectations aside, he'd never shown anything.  Those "expectations" were based on nothing other than draft position plus wishful thinking, rather than his play, being that he got injured in freaking OTAs.

 

Him and Freeney? You know what happened when Freeney went down? They finally starting holding some opponents to under 20 points & 200 passing yards.  The Bolts pass defense SUCKED until Freeney went down. It still was nothing special, but it definitely was better without him than with him.  Hell, it even got better starting IN the game they left the field (week 4). After Freeney went down in the 2nd quarter, Dallas scored one TD, but by the 2nd half they adjusted to life without him and shut out Dallas in the 2nd half. 

 

Whatever pre-season you or anyone expected from Ingram makes no difference.  But hey, he strip-sacked Matt McGloin in week 15, which happened in most of McGloin's games I think.

 

Cromartie's getting old? He was 29 freaking years old.  He played like crap because of an injury that has nothing to do with age; hamstring injuries hit players of every age and any football fan knows this. The guy was as good a CB as there was at 28. He missed exactly 1 game in his prior 7 seasons combined.  But at 29 he's suddenly old and that makes him injury-prone.  At CB.  What a ludicrous thing to say.  Especially when you're piling on about the surprise handicap of 33 1/2 year old Dwight Freeney getting injured (and he was injured plenty often in the past to boot).

 

What a load of bullsh*t. I love how you ignore which teams they played before then, the Cowboys, Eagles, and both the Titans (before their qb got hurt) and the Texans (before they started sucking). Guess what, in the next game they played after Freeney got hurt they lost to the freaking Raiders. You seem to love to cherry pick stats, Freeney may not be up to his past self but he was one of the Chargers core players. And the bullsh*t about shutting them out in the 2nd half, you don't think maybe that they made in game adjustments. You don't think that maybe the Chargers defensive coordinator would've loved to have had Freeney in some of the games? Get out of here. And lol at a torn acl not being bad, but yet Cromartie hurting his hip is horrendous. I guess that torn acl obviously didn't affect Ingram, but Cromartie hurting his hip, career ending injury right their. Go on, please tell me how our team was more injured then the Chargers despite having players who were actually able to play.

 

Also, please tell me further how the article dbatesman posted is wrong, cause obviously the Jets were the most injured team in the NFL.

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What a load of bullsh*t. I love how you ignore which teams they played before then, the Cowboys, Eagles, and both the Titans (before their qb got hurt) and the Texans (before they started sucking). Guess what, in the next game they played after Freeney got hurt they lost to the freaking Raiders. You seem to love to cherry pick stats, Freeney may not be up to his past self but he was one of the Chargers core players. And the bullsh*t about shutting them out in the 2nd half, you don't think maybe that they made in game adjustments. You don't think that maybe the Chargers defensive coordinator would've loved to have had Freeney in some of the games? Get out of here. And lol at a torn acl not being bad, but yet Cromartie hurting his hip is horrendous. I guess that torn acl obviously didn't affect Ingram, but Cromartie hurting his hip, career ending injury right their. Go on, please tell me how our team was more injured then the Chargers despite having players who were actually able to play.

This is an unnecessary argument. Injuries happen in the NFL to every team, some more than others. The best teams are able to overcome the injuries, the Chargers were able to do that last year, so good for them. No one thought the Jets were going to be a playoff team last year and they flirted with it, overachieving. And they certainly had injury problems, so good for them too. This thread is more about going forward to next year and if the Jets can get in the playoffs over a team like the Chargers, since they snuck in last year. Right now the Chargers and the Jets are pretty much on equal footing and it should be our hope with the development of the young guys we can be better than them by the end of the year.

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This is an unnecessary argument. Injuries happen in the NFL to every team, some more than others. The best teams are able to overcome the injuries, the Chargers were able to do that last year, so good for them. No one thought the Jets were going to be a playoff team last year and they flirted with it, overachieving. And they certainly had injury problems, so good for them too. This thread is more about going forward to next year and if the Jets can get in the playoffs over a team like the Chargers, since they snuck in last year. Right now the Chargers and the Jets are pretty much on equal footing and it should be our hope with the development of the young guys we can be better than them by the end of the year.

 

In case you haven't been following the argument. Sperm pointed out how we didn't have a healthy team, I disputed that compared to teams around the league. And the Jets and Chargers are not on equal footing, one team has a qb, the other does not. One team made the playoffs last year and the other has not. Right now the Chargers are better then the Jets until proven otherwise.

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In case you haven't been following the argument. Sperm pointed out how we didn't have a healthy team, I disputed that compared to teams around the league. And the Jets and Chargers are not on equal footing, one team has a qb, the other does not. One team made the playoffs last year and the other has not. Right now the Chargers are better then the Jets until proven otherwise.

I saw the argument. I was simply pointing out that injuries are not an excuse in the NFL because every team will have serious injuries. You will never hear a coach ever say that they will not make the playoffs because they had injuries. The Bears and Packers were are huge examples of that. Both lost their starting QBs last year and it still came down to the last game of the season for them.

 

Chargers finished 9-7 last year, we finished 8-8. While Rivers is definitely better than Geno Smith right now I find that Rivers is overrated. The guy is a punk first and an average QB that had a great team around him when he came in the league so he was able to put up big numbers. The Jets defense is better than the Chargers, so the Chargers have a better offense we have a better defense and they were 1 win apart last year. That seems like equal footing.  

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I saw the argument. I was simply pointing out that injuries are not an excuse in the NFL because every team will have serious injuries. You will never hear a coach ever say that they will not make the playoffs because they had injuries. The Bears and Packers were are huge examples of that. Both lost their starting QBs last year and it still came down to the last game of the season for them.

 

Chargers finished 9-7 last year, we finished 8-8. While Rivers is definitely better than Geno Smith right I find that Rivers is overrated. The guy is a punk first and an average QB that had a great team around him when he came in the league so he was able to put up big numbers. The Jets defense is better than the Chargers, so the Chargers have a better offense we have a better defense and they were 1 win apart last year. That seems like equal footing.  

 

Punk qb? The guy doesn't even curse. He's passionate and I would have loved to have him as the Jets qb. And anything he's far from average, he's a great qb and was top 5 in the NFL last year. He's had a train wreck of an offensive line the past couple of years and that's why he's been struggling. The Chargers have been fixing that though.

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Punk qb? The guy doesn't even curse. He's passionate and I would have loved to have him as the Jets qb. And anything he's far from average, he's a great qb and was top 5 in the NFL last year. He's had a train wreck of an offensive line the past couple of years and that's why he's been struggling. The Chargers have been fixing that though.

You don't have to curse to be a punk. You just have to let men have their way with you. I'm sure he does that.

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What a load of bullsh*t. I love how you ignore which teams they played before then, the Cowboys, Eagles, and both the Titans (before their qb got hurt) and the Texans (before they started sucking). Guess what, in the next game they played after Freeney got hurt they lost to the freaking Raiders. You seem to love to cherry pick stats, Freeney may not be up to his past self but he was one of the Chargers core players. And the bullsh*t about shutting them out in the 2nd half, you don't think maybe that they made in game adjustments. You don't think that maybe the Chargers defensive coordinator would've loved to have had Freeney in some of the games? Get out of here. And lol at a torn acl not being bad, but yet Cromartie hurting his hip is horrendous. I guess that torn acl obviously didn't affect Ingram, but Cromartie hurting his hip, career ending injury right their. Go on, please tell me how our team was more injured then the Chargers despite having players who were actually able to play.

 

Also, please tell me further how the article dbatesman posted is wrong, cause obviously the Jets were the most injured team in the NFL.

 

It was before they started sucking because they played teams like San Diego. It was the only really good game Schaub had all season long.  They sucked plenty. Only reason it was a game in the end is because Cushing returned a pick-6 in the 4th. Defense sucked, Foster wasn't nearly the weapon he was, and the line wasn't protecting Schaub at all. But keep on believing they were good even "early on" when Schaub (bad anyway) was the most pressured QB in football.  Everyone put crazy pressure on him.  Except San Diego and the oh so valuable Dwight Freeney who managed to share a sack. But other than that, he completed more than 3/4 of his passes, threw 3 TDs and it was the only game he looked like a QB who could have gone to the pro bowl at the end of the prior season.

 

Your post is beyond absurd like this from beginning to the end.  Ingram has never been a good player yet at the NFL level (or even a true starter for that matter). Just the year before, Cromartie was a GREAT player. Ingram's absence was far less interruptive to the Chargers' defensive success than Cromartie's lingering injury was to the Jets.  

 

And again, Freeney got hurt and then they shut down Romo (in fact, the entire Dallas D) in the 2nd half. The same QB and offense that would go toe-to-toe with a record-setting Manning the following week (until his on-cue choke pick at the end). Then after the Raiders game they also shut down Luck and the Colts 2 weeks later. And this was despite them not even having such a great defense to begin with.  It's not that Freeney's absence made them awesome.  It's that they were not particularly affected by those injuries, as you claim, because neither was a particularly effective player. 

 

And by the way, they already had Johnson starting. It was never going to be Freeney and Ingram. They didn't even pick up Freeney until after Ingram got his injury.  Dwight Freeney, who no one else wanted at his kookie demands, which is why he was available in the middle of freaking May. And he sucked as an OLB in Indianapolis anyway in case you missed watching that season also.

 

Resorting to a player's draft round is ludicrous.  Who freaking cares what round Ingram was drafted in? If he's good he's good, if he's not he's not. And used purely as a pass rusher who had few (if any) other responsibilities, he was pretty bad.  One of the biggest busts of that first round, since he was very good at nothing after switching to LB.  For you to expect him to be some major force in year 2 is your opinion or your buying into SD's team propaganda, but it isn't based on anything he's done on the field in a Chargers uniform.  No more than Ryan initially bragging how good Milliner was probably going to be as a rookie (who then proceeded to stink it up as a rookie). 

 

Even more mindless is this assertion that Cromartie's injury isn't precisely what took him from being an elite CB and turned him into just about the worst of the worst.  Not 10% worse or 20% worse (if there was such a measurement for corners), which is what one would expect if it was due to aging (at 29. 29!!). He went from great to horrible. And that was due to his injury. I give him credit for suiting up, but equating that with him being healthy is as intellectually honest as suggesting Dwight Freeney's injury (4 years older, at age 33, and at a much rougher position) came as a bigger surprise than Cromartie's at age 29.  Or that Amendola's 4 missed games were detrimental to the Pats' offense but Holmes missing 5 games (none of the remainder he was fully healthy for anyway) was less impactful.  I can't stand Holmes, but even I'll grudgingly admit that - when healthy - that douchebag was a far better and more talented WR than Amendola is/was. 

 

No one is debating Ingram didn't have a serious knee injury. But it wasn't nearly as bad as other knee ligament tears or he wouldn't have been putting pads back on after only 6 months. It was torn, not severed.  There are tears and then there are tears. His was the former.

 

First round draft pick, lol.  Are you f*cking joking me?  Freaking Vernon Gholston was a first round draft pick and he went like a dozen slots ahead of Ingram.  The hell does it matter where he was drafted once he's in the league playing a different position than he played in college? Especially when - like Gholston years earlier - Ingram was considered one of the top 5 busts of the 2012 draft, as a completely healthy rookie who was chiefly only asked to do the 1 thing he was drafted to do. And still did it poorly.

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In case you haven't been following the argument. Sperm pointed out how we didn't have a healthy team, I disputed that compared to teams around the league. And the Jets and Chargers are not on equal footing, one team has a qb, the other does not. One team made the playoffs last year and the other has not. Right now the Chargers are better then the Jets until proven otherwise.

 

The Jets did NOT have a healthy team.  The rest is of course a lot of the point.  The Jets had a piss poor roster to begin with and even THEN how many of their starters and key players were either less effective all season due to injuries or missed the season outright?

 

  • Starting QB = injured in August. Missed the whole season.
  • starting RB = already banged up for most of the first month, missing an early game outright, and hardly touching the ball for most of the first 8 games.
  • 3rd down RB = suspended for a month then played part of 1 game then on IR. Also was the team's only HR threat on offense. Gone.
  • #1 WR = injured from the prior season, was never right when he came back, and prob will never fully be the same again. Then missed 1/3 of the season outright on top of that.
  • #2 WR = injured since the pre-season, got concussed, and was bad since then even if he technically suited up. Then went on IR later.
  • slot WR = missed 1/4 of the season and (not coincidentally) those represented the 4 worst games the offense played all year.
  • #1 TE = also got knocked out of a game and was in and out of the lineup.
  • #2 TE = while not officially injured, everyone knows injuries are the reason Winslow wasn't the same player. Then got suspended for a month himself, but those games don't count as being disruptive since (like Goodson's suspension) they weren't due to injury.

There's your 2013 Jets offense. Every skill position player had injuries except for freaking Bilal Powell. This doesn't even count that they also lost their #3 TE as well as 1 or 2 more WRs who got bumped up the depth chart when the regular starters went down.

 

The bad part of the Jets' defense was the secondary (letting you know because it doesn't appear you watched). 

  • #1 CB = elite in 2012, garbage in 2013 due to injury. Credit him for suiting up but everyone other than you seems to be familiar with why he was so much worse that he barely warranted playing.
  • #2 CB = missed camp due to surgery (injury). While healthy to start the season, that missed injury early-on clearly affected his play. Then he got injured and missed 3 games during the season after that. After playing enough snaps from those first months (a lot of it painful to watch), and then when healthy, he was actually starting to look decent.

There you have your very healthy team.  Crazy me for thinking injuries played any part in the 2013 team's performance. And the team wasn't expected to be any good if they were totally healthy.

 

Your logic (and others) seems to be that they went 8-8 with Ryan, therefore they would have gone at least 9-7 with anyone else. It's very convincing.

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