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There's zero evidence to suggest our defense will be worst this year. We have quite a few more first round picks at positions other than Revis. In fact, we're probably better at every position that Revis wasn't playing than we were then. 

 

The Oline was better then, but that doesn't make what I said any less true. We've got a fair bit more talent on this offense than we did then, and we didn't need anyone to "come from out of nowhere" to make the playoffs.

 

Our oline right now is below average and we're starting a guard who doesnt know how to pass block. Our secondary was a disaster last season.

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From yesterday's camp report: 4. Offensive line fared well in drills with the D-line. The defensive line is the unit that often gets talked about, but in one-on-one drills, Willie Colon got pushed

Clearly we have a great defensive base. Games are won in the trenches and our line is strong with potential. Our backfield as a unit maybe the most talented in the league. And Decker is

You could've simply said Geno Smith and the point would have been gotten across just as clearly as your post.

Our oline right now is below average and we're starting a guard who doesnt know how to pass block. Our secondary was a disaster last season.

 

Last year is not the years we are talking about, we're talking about the playoff run teams.

 

And like I said, our Oline was better THEN. I agreed with you, not sure the purpose of you restating that.

 

As for the secondary, it's basically been re-tooled. Including a FA veteran and a 1st round pick. And like I said, our defense right now is probably better at every position other than the one CB spot Revis held down from those playoff teams.

 

You aren't making a point, especially when you consider you said "we need someone from out of nowhere on offense to make the playoffs" and now you are trying to split hairs over the defense, and aren't even talking about the defense from the playoff years. LOL

 

Foolish.

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Last year is not the years we are talking about, we're talking about the playoff run teams.

 

And like I said, our Oline was better THEN. I agreed with you, not sure the purpose of you restating that.

 

As for the secondary, it's basically been re-tooled. Including a FA veteran and a 1st round pick. And like I said, our defense right now is probably better at every position other than the one CB spot Revis held down from those playoff teams.

 

You aren't making a point, especially when you consider you said "we need someone from out of nowhere on offense to make the playoffs" and now you are trying to split hairs over the defense, and aren't even talking about the defense from the playoff years. LOL

 

Foolish.

 

That seems pretty far out there.  2010 Cromartie was probably better than both our CBs this year.  Hell, 2009 Lito Shepherd probably was too.  We want these young guys to step up, but 2009 and 2010 Scott > Demario Davis and a younger Harris and Pace are probably better than they are now.  Thomas was no big deal, but I'm not sold that Coples is better.  While the current line is great, Jenkins was probably better than any of them to the extent he played in 09-10. 

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Comparing the 2014 roster to the 2010 roster, our last playoff team (bold is better):

 

QB:

2010: Sanchez, Brunell, Clemens

2014: Geno, Vick, Simms 

 

RB:

2010: Ladanian, Shonn, McKnight

2014: CJ, Chris Ivory, Bilal

 

WR:

2010: Holmes, Braylon, Cotch, Brad Smith, Patrick Turner

2014: Decker, Kerley, Hill, Nelson, Ford (or damn near any of the other guys in this camp)

 

TE:

2010: Keller, Cumby, Mulligan

2014: Cumby, Amaro, Sudfeld

 

OL:

2010: Brick, Mangold, Moore, Slauson, Hunter/Woody

2014: Brick, Mangold, Giacomini, Winters, Colon

 

DL: 

2010: Pouha, Ellis, Devito, Pryce

2014: Snacks, Wilk, Sheldon, Kenrick, Douz

 

LB:

2010: Harris, Scott, Pace, Bryan Thomas, Gholston, Westerman, Jason Taylor

2014: Harris, Demorrio, Pace, Coples, Babin, McIntyre, and far more depth

 

CB:

2010: Revis, Cromartie, Coleman, Lowery, Kyle Wilson

2014: Milliner, Patterson, Kyle Wilson, McDougle, Walls, Lankster

 

S:

2010: Eric Smith, Pool, Ihedigbo, Leonard

2014: Pryor, Allen, Landry, Miles, Jarrett, Bush

 

We are better at every position group right now than we were then except CB, and that's only because Revis and Cro, we're actually deeper now, and OL which I already agreed with you about. 

 

So yeah, we'd better get someone on offense to come out of nowhere otherwise no shot at playoffs, because science.

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That seems pretty far out there.  2010 Cromartie was probably better than both our CBs this year.  Hell, 2009 Lito Shepherd probably was too.  We want these young guys to step up, but 2009 and 2010 Scott > Demario Davis and a younger Harris and Pace are probably better than they are now.  Thomas was no big deal, but I'm not sold that Coples is better.  While the current line is great, Jenkins was probably better than any of them to the extent he played in 09-10. 

 

Yeah, I agree Cro and Revis were hands down better than any 2 players in our secondary now. However, wtf does that have to do with needing an "out of nowhere offensive player" to make the playoffs. 

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Yeah, I agree Cro and Revis were hands down better than any 2 players in our secondary now. However, wtf does that have to do with needing an "out of nowhere offensive player" to make the playoffs. 

 

Because we dont have the line that we did back then to sustain drives on the ground. Our passing game needs to get better...and with that happening we need a pass catcher other than Decker having the best season of his career. The guy we need imo, is Hill.

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Because we dont have the line that we did back then to sustain drives on the ground. Our passing game needs to get better...and with that happening we need a pass catcher other than Decker having the best season of his career. The guy we need imo, is Hill.

 

We agree on that. Hill needs to step up, and I think he will. 

 

However, I still think your initial remark about having no shot at the playoffs UNLESS an offensive player comes from out of nowhere is ill-informed.

 

I also think you are over-stating our inability to sustain drives on the ground due to lack of talent at OL. I think the old OL allowed us to grind on the ground to sustain drives, I think the way we are built now allows us to continue to sustain drives, but via different types of plays... in other words, 2 QBs that can run for first downs, 3 RBs that can all catch the ball out of the backfield, more receiving options at TE, more natural slot receivers, etc. 

 

The offense we run now is WCO, dump off passes take the place of run plays. Reducing the dire need for top tier OL across the board. The old offense was sh*t, and all it could do was pound the ball and hope Keller could make first down catches with the occasional underthrown bomb to Braylon.

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We agree on that. Hill needs to step up, and I think he will. 

 

However, I still think your initial remark about having no shot at the playoffs UNLESS an offensive player comes from out of nowhere is ill-informed.

 

I also think you are over-stating our inability to sustain drives on the ground due to lack of talent at OL. I think the old OL allowed us to grind on the ground to sustain drives, I think the way we are built now allows us to continue to sustain drives, but via different types of plays... in other words, 2 QBs that can run for first downs, 3 RBs that can all catch the ball out of the backfield, more receiving options at TE, more natural slot receivers, etc. 

 

The offense we run now is WCO, dump off passes take the place of run plays. Reducing the dire need for top tier OL across the board. The old offense was sh*t, and all it could do was pound the ball and hope Keller could make first down catches with the occasional underthrown bomb to Braylon.

Ivory couldn't catch herpes from Vick let alone a football, but otherwise, yeah. Mornhinweg will expect to be able to open up his playbook a little more this season with either an improved Geno or Vick replacing him.

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From yesterday's camp report:

4. Offensive line fared well in drills with the D-line. The defensive line is the unit that often gets talked about, but in one-on-one drills, Willie Colon got pushed backwards a little but stood up Sheldon Richardson, and you could hear their collision as far away as Ithaca; Nick Mangold held Kenrick Ellis up; Muhammad Wilkerson got inside against Brian Winters but Winters got his hands up and didn't let him past; and Jason Babin tried going outside then inside against D'Brickashaw Ferguson, but Ferguson deftly moved his feet to keep Babin in front of him.

That's going against the DL that Rex Ryan the general consensus says might be the best in the league.

and that's practice

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I don't know if HIll is going to "come out of nowhere" but I fully expect him to have the best season of his career.  I would hope for something in 50/700 range.  I do not necessarily think he will do well enough for the board to get off his ass. 

 

Yeah, I agree Cro and Revis were hands down better than any 2 players in our secondary now. However, wtf does that have to do with needing an "out of nowhere offensive player" to make the playoffs. 

 

I'm not sure.  I was responded the bolded below.

 

Last year is not the years we are talking about, we're talking about the playoff run teams.

 

And like I said, our Oline was better THEN. I agreed with you, not sure the purpose of you restating that.

 

As for the secondary, it's basically been re-tooled. Including a FA veteran and a 1st round pick. And like I said, our defense right now is probably better at every position other than the one CB spot Revis held down from those playoff teams.

 

You aren't making a point, especially when you consider you said "we need someone from out of nowhere on offense to make the playoffs" and now you are trying to split hairs over the defense, and aren't even talking about the defense from the playoff years. LOL

 

Foolish.

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A guard who can't pass block ruins an offense. Seattle protected Wilson decently, plus he's really good and he's elusive. Lynch breaks more tackles than anyone in football.

 

If Winters doesnt get his sh*t together it could be a long year again for the offense. He was JP Machado bad last year.

 

Faneca couldn't pass block either his last year here. Whatever his presence brought (and I'll certainly admit that's 1000x more than freaking Ducasse or rookie Winters), as I recall he was statistically the worst pass-blocking guard in the NFL in 2009.  Which is why we paid him $6M to play for someone else. There wasn't even a salary cap benefit because there was no cap in 2010.

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...while standing on the sidelines watching due to injury.  So, basically, he had nothing to do with winning a Superbowl.  I agree with the OP.  2 guys on their last legs, another Pittsburgh outcast who is basically a back up, one improving rookie and an unknown who is coming off a season ending injury.  Geno will be running for his life again this year.

 

The guy may end up being the 2nd coming of Anthony Clement for us, but in the superbowl he was only watching from the sidelines on the same plays Russell Wilson was on the sidelines: when Seattle's defense and special teams was on the field. He was Seattle's RT in the superbowl just like in every playoff game Seattle was in for the past 2 seasons.

 

He missed 7 games earlier in the season (weeks 4-10) after getting his knee scoped (hardly major surgery).

 

Last legs, lol.  He's freaking 29 (or rather, he will be 29 in a couple of months).  

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Faneca couldn't pass block either his last year here. Whatever his presence brought (and I'll certainly admit that's 1000x more than freaking Ducasse or rookie Winters), as I recall he was statistically the worst pass-blocking guard in the NFL in 2009.  Which is why we paid him $6M to play for someone else. There wasn't even a salary cap benefit because there was no cap in 2010.

 

Winters had an all time bad season last year for a guard.

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no, its the secondary

 

it's a serious weak link

 

Oboushi has been solid so far, and winters as well

 

actually, the O-line play has been a pleasant surprise this camp

 

 

but hill looking like randy moss every day is NOT a good sign, lol

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Half season. Didn't play the first 1/4, and he was fine over the final 1/4.

 

In between he was a train wreck, no doubt, but he was a mid-round rookie not an $8M/year ringer.

 

The Panthers game was a nightmare

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Ivory couldn't catch herpes from Vick let alone a football, but otherwise, yeah. Mornhinweg will expect to be able to open up his playbook a little more this season with either an improved Geno or Vick replacing him.

 

Which is why I said 3 backs who can catch out of the backfield: CJ, Darryl, Bilal.

 

I can't be expected to do the math for everyone here, ya know. :P

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Which is why I said 3 backs who can catch out of the backfield: CJ, Darryl, Bilal.

 

I can't be expected to do the math for everyone here, ya know. :P

Darryl? Lol. Is this someone we expect to make the team?

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Clearly we have a great defensive base.

Games are won in the trenches and our line is strong with potential.

Our backfield as a unit maybe the most talented in the league.

And Decker is looking the part with geno & Vick who can add another dimension to the offense.

Seriously how is no 1 noticing our O line is dreadful?

Last year our best line man was Austin Howard, who is gone now.

Mangold & Ferguson play has been declining over the years, Willie colon does not seem to be all that good by play, but he has the mentality that you can admire & who else gives you a reason to believe?

If holes don't open and qbs dont have time in the pocket we will go no where!

Dreadful? Man you have a twisted reality. Yeah, Mangold and Ferguson are not Pro-Bowl caliber anymore, but still effective. Giacommini will adequately replace Howard and we have three guys competing with Colon at guard and they are young drafted players.Obushay, Winters, and Dozier are all in competition for guard. Get real man, it ain't that bad. The Jets rushing attack was one of the better ones in the league last year.

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We agree on that. Hill needs to step up, and I think he will.

However, I still think your initial remark about having no shot at the playoffs UNLESS an offensive player comes from out of nowhere is ill-informed.

I also think you are over-stating our inability to sustain drives on the ground due to lack of talent at OL. I think the old OL allowed us to grind on the ground to sustain drives, I think the way we are built now allows us to continue to sustain drives, but via different types of plays... in other words, 2 QBs that can run for first downs, 3 RBs that can all catch the ball out of the backfield, more receiving options at TE, more natural slot receivers, etc.

The offense we run now is WCO, dump off passes take the place of run plays. Reducing the dire need for top tier OL across the board. The old offense was sh*t, and all it could do was pound the ball and hope Keller could make first down catches with the occasional underthrown bomb to Braylon.

If the OLine is truly bad (not saying it will be), then Chris Johnson will be the difference maker on offense we need, when the blocking breaks down quickly particularly on a blitz happy D, just get it out to CJ, and if he has anything left in the tank he will hide the OLine pass blocking possible problems, MM offenses love to get the ball via short passes to playmaking backs something we only had for 1 game last year in Goodson. So IMO Hill just needs to be relevant, but CJ needs to be the offensive MVP.

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I wonder if part of our problem with our offense is that they play the jets defense during training camp and lose all confidence?

I've been wondering that lately to, and i think it mite be that rex demands so much from defense but just asks his qb to not mess up, he should demand points from them.

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#1 Problem. Jets FANS over analyze practice, over analyze what players say, over analyze everything. And the media runs with that. Makes nonsense stories. The FANS read into, judge, make statements off of that. The stories blow up to these national things that don't matter in the long run. The owner takes actions based on fan approval ratings. No one is happy about anything except the beat writers because FANS read into their BS constantly. And realistically this is just football and the FANS are supposed to just have fun with the game. I can't tell you how many times at the games last year FANS already had their mind made up about Geno in week 1 and how they thought he sucked based on what they heard in the media. FANS need to take a step back and realize the Jets organization is not as bad as sites like this make it seem. Since 1998 I really can't complain too much as a Jets FAN. Multiple playoff appearances, three AFC championship appearances, and basically baring major injuries the team has been competitive every year. Have we won the big one? No but that doesn't mean they are this dire team every year. For example, when Tim Tebow was signed here vs New England. Initial reaction was hey look at that. Difference being, after two days it was over in NE. After two we were just getting started in NY with the media coverage and it's because the FANS wanted it more and more. So I blame the FANS.

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The G spot, no matter who is starting will be a weakness. Brick is solid but overrated, and Mangold is declining with age.

Our best corner may be Patterson. Smh

But I see no other holes that wont improve by guys in house, this year.

I think the g spot will be fine. All they need to do is pound it in there regularly.

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Actually, all of your comments regarding Breno are completely wrong.  He missed a handful of games in the middle of the season, but was back in week 11 and played throughout the rest of the season and entirety of the playoffs.

 

While I do not agree that 7 missed games is a handful I ackowledge I was wrong about him not playing at the end.  He did contribute.  I stand corrected. 

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