slats Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 You and slats should get together and have a slapfight to determine once and for all who was the first to hold the "Rex fans are an embattled minority" delusion. Delusion? I'm hiding from the frothing masses in the attic of a sympathetic Rex hater's home as I type this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't understand how so many Jet fans can be outraged by a 6 or 8 win prediction? The Jets just aren't that talented, they can talk about an elite defense all they like but where was that defense last year? They gave up points like a soup kitchen gives away turkeys on Thanksgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Bit Special Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 10 wins atmost for the jets this season. at worst 8 wins again. The Defense will keep the Jets in games more. I expect a wildcard spot. Rex Ryan needs to come back for a 7th season after this season. make playoffs? sexy rexy back. miss playoffs? pink slip time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't understand how so many Jet fans can be outraged by a 6 or 8 win prediction? The Jets just aren't that talented, they can talk about an elite defense all they like but where was that defense last year? They gave up points like a soup kitchen gives away turkeys on Thanksgiving. The Jets D was not elite last year, but the idea that they were giving up so many points is a bit misguided. The Jets were 20th in points allowed in 2013 with 387, the Pats were (Ooooooooh! Top) 10 with 338. However, the Jets actually gave up 1 less TD than the Pats did. Jets 9/26, Pats 11/25. The rest of the points were FGs (which are often based on field position), special teams (which was a bit substandard the past couple of years) or Geno (at least 5 pick 6's and a fumble returned for a TD). Happy Thanksgiving! Sure there is more to this. Teams don't generally have to put up big points on the Jets so they play it closer to the vest and will score less - will take a FG rather than a TD and let Geno try to beat them. Considering the Pats bend but don't break philosophy, that is still significant IMO. The idea that the Jets D was letting up TDs like a Pez dispenser is a little off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 The Jets D was not elite last year, but the idea that they were giving up so many points is a bit misguided. The Jets were 20th in points allowed in 2013 with 387, the Pats were (Ooooooooh! Top) 10 with 338. However, the Jets actually gave up 1 less TD than the Pats did. Jets 9/26, Pats 11/25. The rest of the points were FGs (which are often based on field position), special teams (which was a bit substandard the past couple of years) or Geno (at least 5 pick 6's and a fumble returned for a TD). Happy Thanksgiving! Sure there is more to this. Teams don't generally have to put up big points on the Jets so they play it closer to the vest and will score less - will take a FG rather than a TD and let Geno try to beat them. Considering the Pats bend but don't break philosophy, that is still significant IMO. The idea that the Jets D was letting up TDs like a Pez dispenser is a little off the mark. Points by TD or Field goal really don't matter, and if you don't understand the "Oooooooh!" difference between being top ten in points allowed v.s in 20's then I'll give you a hint, the teams in the top ten were mostly still playing football while the Jets were all on golf courses talking about how they were each the best in the NFL at their positions. Sure you can make the lame excuse that defense wasn't elite because of the turn overs, but it's fools gold because a truly elite defense should be able to pick up the slack. In reality, you can have an elite D-line, but that doesn't make an elite defense and it certainly won't make an elite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Points by TD or Field goal really don't matter, and if you don't understand the "Oooooooh!" difference between being top ten in points allowed v.s in 20's then I'll give you a hint, the teams in the top ten were mostly still playing football while the Jets were all on golf courses talking about how they were each the best in the NFL at their positions. Sure you can make the lame excuse that defense wasn't elite because of the turn overs, but it's fools gold because a truly elite defense should be able to pick up the slack. In reality, you can have an elite D-line, but that doesn't make an elite defense and it certainly won't make an elite team. Should I be like you? That's not my point! I said they were not elite in 2013. I think they have improved. They were 20th, not "in 20's" and if you read my post that is points allowed. Not points allowed by the defense. The Jets offense gave up AT LEAST 42 points when the defense was not even on the field. More than 10% of the points allowed were scored while the defense was on the bench. A truly elite defense can pick up the slack and stop points from going on the board through interceptions and fumbles. I have yet to witness the defense elite enough to pick up the slack and stop points scored from interceptions and fumbles that were returned for touchdowns. Fool's gold indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 make playoffs? sexy rexy back. miss playoffs? pink slip time Pretty much. It'll be interesting to see what Idzik decides to do if we "overachieve" to the tune of 9-7 and barely miss the postseason. But ultimately Idzik has rebuilt the roster to a point where Rex doesn't have excuses left. Win now with Geno in year 2 or start over with a new HC and QB. The future is pretty exciting in either scenario with some pretty talented QB's available in the '15 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Should I be like you? That's not my point! I said they were not elite in 2013. I think they have improved. They were 20th, not "in 20's" and if you read my post that is points allowed. Not points allowed by the defense. The Jets offense gave up AT LEAST 42 points when the defense was not even on the field. More than 10% of the points allowed were scored while the defense was on the bench. A truly elite defense can pick up the slack and stop points from going on the board through interceptions and fumbles. I have yet to witness the defense elite enough to pick up the slack and stop points scored from interceptions and fumbles that were returned for touchdowns. Fool's gold indeed. You are missing the point, again, which goes back to my original comment that you responded to. Through your magical thinking you some how believe a defense that was nothing special last season, with minimal changes is now going to be elite, and I don't. You think 6 to 8 win season prediction for the jets this season is an outrage and I don't. That's all fine because in a few short weeks your going to see what the point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 You are missing the point, again, which goes back to my original comment that you responded to. Through your magical thinking you some how believe a defense that was nothing special last season, with minimal changes is now going to be elite, and I don't. You think 6 to 8 win season prediction for the jets this season is an outrage and I don't. That's all fine because in a few short weeks your going to see what the point is. As is your MO, you get upset at people for missing your point, but do not in any way defend the moronic statements that you make supporting that point. I am not outraged at the prediction. I think they will do better, but predictions don't generally bother me, even when they are from a poster that gets paypal donations for his football knowledge. I have a problem with idiotic statements about the Jets D giving up points like a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving. They were a good defense last year. They were nothing special, but basically the equal to the top 10 Pats. Or maybe I should be quiet so that I don't anger you or the Pats will want to beat the Jets worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I don't understand how so many Jet fans can be outraged by a 6 or 8 win prediction? The Jets just aren't that talented, they can talk about an elite defense all they like but where was that defense last year? They gave up points like a soup kitchen gives away turkeys on Thanksgiving. IMO, It all depends on Geno and Vick. Chis Johnson should have an impact and possibly Decker too. The run defense should be very good, but the pass defense is still a ? mark. I think 8 - 8 is a fair base to start from and if things come together 10 - 6 and the playoffs are definitely doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LWC611 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Pretty much. It'll be interesting to see what Idzik decides to do if we "overachieve" to the tune of 9-7 and barely miss the postseason. But ultimately Idzik has rebuilt the roster to a point where Rex doesn't have excuses left. Win now with Geno in year 2 or start over with a new HC and QB. The future is pretty exciting in either scenario with some pretty talented QB's available in the '15 draft. Given the failure to replace cromartie with a legit corner and the holes still at the guard position on the O-Line I am not sure I would say that there are no excuses left for Rex... If Geno can dmonstrate this year that he can play at the NFL level, next year I see a draft and a free agency period where the above referenced holes are addressed and an LB or two to address our aging LB corps... I would say after next year, there would be no excuses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Simply if the Jets offense is again in 29/28 (as they were in 2013 and 2012, respectively) in points per game, the defense will not help no matter how good it may be. Teams again will lay back knowing the 3 and out Jets' offense will leave the defense on the field all day. And the mistakes and breakdowns will be an inevitability. And no matter how good the defense is against the run, you don't need to make but a big play or 2 upfield passing to beat a bad offense. While the defense may be good enough to steal 6 to 8 wins vs. the tomato cans on the schedule, the margin for error against better teams will be the issue.This offense has to be better or it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Given the failure to replace cromartie with a legit corner and the holes still at the guard position on the O-Line I am not sure I would say that there are no excuses left for Rex... If Geno can dmonstrate this year that he can play at the NFL level, next year I see a draft and a free agency period where the above referenced holes are addressed and an LB or two to address our aging LB corps... I would say after next year, there would be no excuses... We're attempting to "Hide" our CB issue by building up the DL. Dee Milliner was a top 10 pick and Kyle Wilson was a former 1st rounder who does quite well in the slot. We also added a 1st round safety to help out. I'd say there's plenty of talent on D for Rex. Offense is of course still a work in progress, but at least we've improved at RB and the receiving corps. Guard isn't quite as crucial as people make it out to be. Rex has to find a way to make it work (I think he can) and Geno has to take a big step. That's all there is to it really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoFlaJets Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Oh no who let friggin' shasta back in here? I'm willing to bet that Go77 was shasta-she always was a nasty troll/ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 As is your MO, you get upset at people for missing your point, but do not in any way defend the moronic statements that you make supporting that point. I am not outraged at the prediction. I think they will do better, but predictions don't generally bother me, even when they are from a poster that gets paypal donations for his football knowledge. I have a problem with idiotic statements about the Jets D giving up points like a soup kitchen on Thanksgiving. They were a good defense last year. They were nothing special, but basically the equal to the top 10 Pats. Or maybe I should be quiet so that I don't anger you or the Pats will want to beat the Jets worse! Sorry but it's not an idiotic statement to question someone when they say the Jets defense was "good" last year. There were only 10 odd teams in the NFL that were worse, two thirds that were better? It's also not an idiotic statement to question what the Jets fans running around talking about how they have an elite defense this year, but I suppose you'll just respond that that isn't happening right? How's this for a point, the Jets defense is very weak across the board with the exception of their D-line, but that won't do much for them when they can't get off the field and when they do Geno puts them right back on the field before they take their helmets off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Sorry but it's not an idiotic statement to question someone when they say the Jets defense was "good" last year. There were only 10 odd teams in the NFL that were worse, two thirds that were better? It's also not an idiotic statement to question what the Jets fans running around talking about how they have an elite defense this year, but I suppose you'll just respond that that isn't happening right? How's this for a point, the Jets defense is very weak across the board with the exception of their D-line, but that won't do much for them when they can't get off the field and when they do Geno puts them right back on the field before they take their helmets off. You are the only person in this thread who has made any reference to the Jets D as "elite". So not only are you attempting to argue against a straw man of your own creation, you're doing an absolutely awful job at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why was Kid Rock's father trying to beat that fat man with a guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 The Jets D was not elite last year, but the idea that they were giving up so many points is a bit misguided. The Jets were 20th in points allowed in 2013 with 387, the Pats were (Ooooooooh! Top) 10 with 338. However, the Jets actually gave up 1 less TD than the Pats did. Jets 9/26, Pats 11/25. The rest of the points were FGs (which are often based on field position), special teams (which was a bit substandard the past couple of years) or Geno (at least 5 pick 6's and a fumble returned for a TD). Happy Thanksgiving! Sure there is more to this. Teams don't generally have to put up big points on the Jets so they play it closer to the vest and will score less - will take a FG rather than a TD and let Geno try to beat them. Considering the Pats bend but don't break philosophy, that is still significant IMO. The idea that the Jets D was letting up TDs like a Pez dispenser is a little off the mark. You can't talk to Shasta like it knows anything about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Oh no who let friggin' shasta back in here? I'm willing to bet that Go77 was shasta-she always was a nasty troll/ho I want to see a PR37/Shasta moron-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Why was Kid Rock's father trying to beat that fat man with a guitar? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I want to see a PR37/Shasta moron-off. Is Shasta this site's version of MACPAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Is Shasta this site's version of MACPAC? Shasta used to be on JI too. She/He/It was banned permanently even before I became a mod. I think Bergen did the honors. Imagine Garb with PR37s brain and 124's anger. Then multiply by 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaJetsFan Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I have existential questions like - Why does this thread still exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Shasta used to be on JI too. She/He/It was banned permanently even before I became a mod. I think Bergen did the honors. Imagine Garb with PR37s brain and 124's anger. Then multiply by 100. LOL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 LOL!!! Am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Sorry but it's not an idiotic statement to question someone when they say the Jets defense was "good" last year. There were only 10 odd teams in the NFL that were worse, two thirds that were better? It's also not an idiotic statement to question what the Jets fans running around talking about how they have an elite defense this year, but I suppose you'll just respond that that isn't happening right? How's this for a point, the Jets defense is very weak across the board with the exception of their D-line, but that won't do much for them when they can't get off the field and when they do Geno puts them right back on the field before they take their helmets off. It is an idiotic statement because it is idiotic. If you read the post you would see that the Jets D did not give up more points than all but "10 odd teams" Geno gave up at least 42 of those points without the D stepping on the field. I know you are a troll, but over here we appreciate it if our trolls at least read and respond and not keep repeating the same moronic crap. Particularly when I already proved how moronic it was. You think the Jets D will be weak, you are welcome to your opinion. You think the Jets D gave up more points than all but 10 teams, please keep your lies to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Shasta used to be on JI too. She/He/It was banned permanently even before I became a mod. I think Bergen did the honors. Imagine Garb with PR37s brain and 124's anger. Then multiply by 100. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Shasta used to be on JI too. She/He/It was banned permanently even before I became a mod. I think Bergen did the honors. Imagine Garb with PR37s brain and 124's anger. Then multiply by 100. And you may be the only mod in history to be banned by his fellow Mods, they still talk post about it over there to this day. I'm sorry if I feel like 6-8 win season is realistic for the Jets this year, it may in fact be much, much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 And you may be the only mod in history to be banned by his fellow Mods, they still talk post about it over there to this day. I'm sorry if I feel like 6-8 win season is realistic for the Jets this year, it may in fact be much, much worse. 1. I pretty obviously got banned intentionally so I really don't care. 2. How ******* sad is it that they still talk about that on JI seeing as it was six years ago? I honestly think I've looked at JI less than five times since I left and it's only been when someone leaves there because they got banned by Mr. Irrational and posted the link to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 It is an idiotic statement because it is idiotic. If you read the post you would see that the Jets D did not give up more points than all but "10 odd teams" Geno gave up at least 42 of those points without the D stepping on the field. I know you are a troll, but over here we appreciate it if our trolls at least read and respond and not keep repeating the same moronic crap. Particularly when I already proved how moronic it was. You think the Jets D will be weak, you are welcome to your opinion. You think the Jets D gave up more points than all but 10 teams, please keep your lies to yourself. Where did I say anything about points? Can you read? Or do you just like to continue to respond to points that were never brought up to make you feel like your wining an argument that never was? Simply stated, the Jets "OVERALL Defense" was in bottom third of the league, so spin that all you like, but they were not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shasta14 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 1. I pretty obviously got banned intentionally so I really don't care. 2. How ******* sad is it that they still talk about that on JI seeing as it was six years ago? I honestly think I've looked at JI less than five times since I left and it's only been when someone leaves there because they got banned by Mr. Irrational and posted the link to the thread. Talk isn't the right word, laugh is more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Talk isn't the right word, laugh is more accurate. Then why did you say talk? I'm not sure you are in an optimal position to hurl the "how sad" style insult at anyone for their message board activity, given the role you've chosen for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Talk isn't the right word, laugh is more accurate. Well then I am happy for them that they still buy into Sooth's bullsh*t. We laugh about it from time to time here, too. Difference is, you can actually read the original thread here because Max doesn't believe in censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Then why did you say talk? I'm not sure you are in an optimal position to hurl the "how sad" style insult at anyone for their message board activity, given the role you've chosen for yourself. Remember: dumber than PR37, angrier than 124. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I don't understand how so many Jet fans can be outraged by a 6 or 8 win prediction? The Jets just aren't that talented, they can talk about an elite defense all they like but where was that defense last year? They gave up points like a soup kitchen gives away turkeys on Thanksgiving. Points by TD or Field goal really don't matter, and if you don't understand the "Oooooooh!" difference between being top ten in points allowed v.s in 20's then I'll give you a hint, the teams in the top ten were mostly still playing football while the Jets were all on golf courses talking about how they were each the best in the NFL at their positions. Sure you can make the lame excuse that defense wasn't elite because of the turn overs, but it's fools gold because a truly elite defense should be able to pick up the slack. In reality, you can have an elite D-line, but that doesn't make an elite defense and it certainly won't make an elite team. Where did I say anything about points? Can you read? Or do you just like to continue to respond to points that were never brought up to make you feel like your wining an argument that never was? Simply stated, the Jets "OVERALL Defense" was in bottom third of the league, so spin that all you like, but they were not good. To answer your questions in order: 1. See above 2. Yes 3. You brought it up, I responded and you kept going on and on and denying you brought it up. It's not your point, it is just what you said. In sum: Idiotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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