Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 And if Kansas City has approached the Jets, and if in fact Edwards has said that he would listen to overtures from Kansas City, then, really, all that is left is a game of poker. And that game of poker is just about draft choice compensation, and that is all. Once Edwards says that he will listen to other overtures, you can't have him be your coach anymore. I say that not only from a philosophical point of view, but a pragmatic one as well. What he will have basically said to your face then is exactly opposite of what he has told the public (that is not the importan part), but he will also have told you that he does not believe in the organization anymore and that he does not want to work for you anymore. How can you retain someone after that? How can you let someone lead your men after that? It cannot be about money. It cannot be about security. It will be about loyalty at that time. And, if the Jets allow themselves to be treated like second class citizens at that point, then that is what they will get in return. Once he says he interested in other overtures, it is all over. The only remaining sticking point is compensation. If you do not get the compensation that you require, you hold on to him, you secure plan B, and then you cut him after KC has made their coaching change. It really is that simple, if it has progressed this far. KC knows it. And teh Jets have to know it. Herm certainly does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 And if Kansas City has approached the Jets, and if in fact Edwards has said that he would listen to overtures from Kansas City, then, really, all that is left is a game of poker. And that game of poker is just about draft choice compensation, and that is all. Once Edwards says that he will listen to other overtures, you can't have him be your coach anymore. I say that not only from a philosophical point of view, but a pragmatic one as well. What he will have basically said to your face then is exactly opposite of what he has told the public (that is not the importan part), but he will also have told you that he does not believe in the organization anymore and that he does not want to work for you anymore. How can you retain someone after that? How can you let someone lead your men after that? It cannot be about money. It cannot be about security. It will be about loyalty at that time. And, if the Jets allow themselves to be treated like second class citizens at that point, then that is what they will get in return. Once he says he interested in other overtures, it is all over. The only remaining sticking point is compensation. If you do not get the compensation that you require, you hold on to him, you secure plan B, and then you cut him after KC has made their coaching change. It really is that simple, if it has progressed this far. KC knows it. And teh Jets have to know it. Herm certainly does. GREAT post. It's hit the point of no return for Herm from the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If history is any predictor of the future, Bradway will undervalue the importance of draft picks and let Herm go for a 5th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 GREAT post. It's hit the point of no return for Herm from the sounds of it. Bill Parcell said it about retiring players-"once they talk about retiring, forget it, they already have" Well it holds true for coaches-Once they cast a glance somewhere else, or once they tell you that they will listen to other options, forget it, they can't be in your organization anymore. I don't know about you, but I take it pretty seriously if my girl would cheat on me. And I would take it pretty much to heart if she told me she likes me, but has another suitor, BUT will remain with me if I can up the ante in some manner. Who wants that. Same way in business. I manage people. If someone tells me they like where they work, but they have other offers, and I can find a capable replacement, they are gone. Never be held over a barrel and never be used. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Solid post. Nothing to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 GREAT post. It's hit the point of no return for Herm from the sounds of it. The Jets do not have to settle for any draft choice. There is a precedent about coaches being pilfered. It is obvious that KC considers Herm their prime candidate, if they have gone to the trouble of of raising thsi dust storm. That bluff is over. If the Jets do not get what they consider fair compensation, do not settle. Cut off negotiations, and let KC name their other guy, put plan B in place, and give Herm what he wants-A release-But, without the KC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Bill Parcell said it about retiring players-"once they talk about retiring, forget it, they already have" Well it holds true for coaches-Once they cast a glance somewhere else, or once they tell you that they will listen to other options, forget it, they can't be in your organization anymore. I don't know about you, but I take it pretty seriously if my girl would cheat on me. And I would take it pretty much to heart if she told me she likes me, but has another suitor, BUT will remain with me if I can up the ante in some manner. Who wants that. Same way in business. I manage people. If someone tells me they like where they work, but they have other offers, and I can find a capable replacement, they are gone. Never be held over a barrel and never be used. It is that simple. The Parcells quote put's it perfectly, I think, for most any situation. If you're thinking about and looking elsewhere, you're not doing what you need to do where you are. It's a tough proposition sometimes, but it's generally the right way to approach a situation like this one. By the way, I like the venom in holding on to Herm and then cutting him loose once KC makes a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 This is what it boils down to-The Jets have to ask Herm if he is interested in other overtures. That answer sets in motion other things based on his answer: Yes he is-Get what you feel is fair compensation for him. At the very same time, begin interviewing candidates (hey, if you are allowed to dabble, so are we. We have an organization to run here). If you do not get what you feel is fair compensation, get your other coach ready, then dump Herm after his suitors have followed their intentions. No he isn't-Go on with your off season duties as previously planned. Whether that means dumping Herm or not, I can't say. Bradway should feel like he has gotten a get out of jail free card. BTW-This was the same premise with Belichick. If he didn't want to coach here, and had a girl courting him, GOOD BYE, GOOD DAY, GOOD LUCK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBeans Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 This is what it boils down to-The Jets have to ask Herm if he is interested in other overtures. That answer sets in motion other things based on his answer: Yes he is-Get what you feel is fair compensation for him. At the very same time, begin interviewing candidates (hey, if you are allowed to dabble, so are we. We have an organization to run here). If you do not get what you feel is fair compensation, get your other coach ready, then dump Herm after his suitors have followed their intentions. No he isn't-Go on with your off season duties as previously planned. Whether that means dumping Herm or not, I can't say. Bradway should feel like he has gotten a get out of jail free card. BTW-This was the same premise with Belichick. If he didn't want to coach here, and had a girl courting him, GOOD BYE, GOOD DAY, GOOD LUCK. You want to be the GM for a few weeks? Solid stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If the Jets do not get what they consider fair compensation, do not settle. Cut off negotiations, and let KC name their other guy, put plan B in place, and give Herm what he wants-A release-But, without the KC job. Actually didn't something similar to that happen here? In early '97, Bellichick was named the HC & Tuna was brought in as a non-coaching "consultant" after stepping down from the NE HC job. But then, Tuna wasn't fired (and hence required compensation to NE). KC would be able to put a "body" in as HC (if they were so inclined) & if Herm is then fired, they'd be able to hire him for no compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Actually didn't something similar to that happen here? In early '97, Bellichick was named the HC & Tuna was brought in as a non-coaching "consultant" after stepping down from the NE HC job. But then, Tuna wasn't fired (and hence required compensation to NE). KC would be able to put a "body" in as HC (if they were so inclined) & if Herm is then fired, they'd be able to hire him for no compensation. Touche. If Woody had a real set on him, keep Edwards on the payroll, make him a consultant, get a new coach. That won't happen. I can not think of many coaches that will put themselves in position of stoolie as Bellichick did. Imagine the relationship of the "puppet" coach, and Edwards when he does come on board. Frosty at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Good post. If we get anything less than a 3, 4 and 5 then Bradway should be fired. A 3, 4 and 5 will be good enough. A 2 and 3 should really be what we deserve. A 2 and 4 is actually something I'd rather have than a 3, 4 and 5. Anything less than that and Bradway should be fired on the spot. Knowing this, we'll get lowballed and end up receiving a 4th and 6th rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Good post. If we get anything less than a 3, 4 and 5 then Bradway should be fired. A 3, 4 and 5 will be good enough. A 2 and 3 should really be what we deserve. A 2 and 4 is actually something I'd rather have than a 3, 4 and 5. Anything less than that and Bradway should be fired on the spot. Knowing this, we'll get lowballed and end up receiving a 4th and 6th rd pick. The easy part about compensation is that there is PRECEDENT. And the precedent is for dabbling with a coach who is under CONTRACT. It DOES NOT matter what the performance or qualities of that coach are, because KC would obviously not be kicking up this dirt if they were genuinely interested and considered Herm their number one choice. This "window shopping" does not occur on a regular basis in the NFL. KC looses that bluff. The Jets have all the cards here. They obviously have a commodity that is worth something to other people. They must for teh good of the organization and the fanbase, extract fair value for that commodity. And that is where precedent comes in. Are we to believe that KC will say "Well, we want Herm, but he is not worth what those other coaches were worth." That is BS plain and simple. Why are you courting him then? Do you consider your organization to be so worthless that you will consider "second rate" leadership? That flag doesn't fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The easy part about compensation is that there is PRECEDENT. And the precedent is for dabbling with a coach who is under CONTRACT. It DOES NOT matter what the performance or qualities of that coach are, because KC would obviously not be kicking up this dirt if they were genuinely interested and considered Herm their number one choice. This "window shopping" does not occur on a regular basis in the NFL. KC looses that bluff. The Jets have all the cards here. They obviously have a commodity that is worth something to other people. They must for teh good of the organization and the fanbase, extract fair value for that commodity. And that is where precedent comes in. Are we to believe that KC will say "Well, we want Herm, but he is not worth what those other coaches were worth." That is BS plain and simple. Why are you courting him then? Do you consider your organization to be so worthless that you will consider "second rate" leadership? That flag doesn't fly. Maybe, but this is the Jets we're talking about. And Bradway is all buddy buddy with Peterson. Scott - What do you think we will receive, prediction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 EB-I am not in the predict business. What I will comment is what is fair compensation: High End-A 1 this year and a 2 next year. Low End-A 2 this year and a 3 next year. I do not go lower than the low end, just out of principle. Of course, that puts us in a tough position, as I laid out above. Anything worse than a 2 this year, does not make this exercise worth conducting. Teh only leverage that KC has, is knowing what I laid out above about employee dabbling outside-It cannot be condoned. They know that the Jets will have to move also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bman Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 they would have to give us their first rd pick... we could end up with 3 picks in the first 32..Do it now! you could land Deangelo Williams, maybe Jay Cutler, and the best available OT.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 EB-I am not in the predict business. What I will comment is what is fair compensation: High End-A 1 this year and a 2 next year. Low End-A 2 this year and a 3 next year. I do not go lower than the low end, just out of principle. Of course, that puts us in a tough position, as I laid out above. Anything worse than a 2 this year, does not make this exercise worth conducting. Teh only leverage that KC has, is knowing what I laid out above about employee dabbling outside-It cannot be condoned. They know that the Jets will have to move also. I agree. A 2nd rd pick this year is A MUST HAVE in this deal. I wish the raiders would get in on this. They have much higher picks in the draft. I'd trade Herm to the raiders for their 2nd and 4th rd picks in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree. A 2nd rd pick this year is A MUST HAVE in this deal. I wish the raiders would get in on this. They have much higher picks in the draft. I'd trade Herm to the raiders for their 2nd and 4th rd picks in a heartbeat. If, in fact, Edwards has said he would be interested in being somewhere else, by all means, you try to create a bidding war. I am just not sure who would want to be involved with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 At the same time though, the Jets shouldn't delay nor should they overplay their hand. As the jobs start getting gobbled up their leverage will decrease. They have a commodity in Edwards that may have a short shelf life. And dealing with the Raiders is a nightmare.Get the best deal you can from KC-even a 3,4 and 5-and be done with it.If Edwards is playing these games this year, he'll do it again next year and the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 At the same time though, the Jets shouldn't delay nor should they overplay their hand. As the jobs start getting gobbled up their leverage will decrease. They have a commodity in Edwards that may have a short shelf life. And dealing with the Raiders is a nightmare.Get the best deal you can from KC-even a 3,4 and 5-and be done with it.If Edwards is playing these games this year, he'll do it again next year and the year after. For the sake of both sides, negotiations with KC must be FINISHED today. Time is of the essence, correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bman Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 if Bradway only gets a 4 and a 5 all you season ticket holders should turn em in! .. You lose your coach for an Kerry Rhodes type player... I dont think so... BRADWAY SUCKS.... His friendship with KC will screw us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 And if Kansas City has approached the Jets, and if in fact Edwards has said that he would listen to overtures from Kansas City, then, really, all that is left is a game of poker. And that game of poker is just about draft choice compensation, and that is all. Once Edwards says that he will listen to other overtures, you can't have him be your coach anymore. I say that not only from a philosophical point of view, but a pragmatic one as well. What he will have basically said to your face then is exactly opposite of what he has told the public (that is not the importan part), but he will also have told you that he does not believe in the organization anymore and that he does not want to work for you anymore. How can you retain someone after that? How can you let someone lead your men after that? It cannot be about money. It cannot be about security. It will be about loyalty at that time. And, if the Jets allow themselves to be treated like second class citizens at that point, then that is what they will get in return. Once he says he interested in other overtures, it is all over. The only remaining sticking point is compensation. If you do not get the compensation that you require, you hold on to him, you secure plan B, and then you cut him after KC has made their coaching change. It really is that simple, if it has progressed this far. KC knows it. And teh Jets have to know it. Herm certainly does. great post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonehands Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If the Jets do not get what they consider fair compensation, do not settle. Cut off negotiations, and let KC name their other guy, put plan B in place, and give Herm what he wants-A release-But, without the KC job. Only problem with that idea is that we end up being without a coach until May in that scenario. I say we make a fair deal with KC and move on. If you want to give me something for an item I was willing to throw out anyway, I am happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green DNA Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 if Bradway only gets a 4 and a 5 all you season ticket holders should turn em in! .. You lose your coach for an Kerry Rhodes type player... I dont think so... BRADWAY SUCKS.... His friendship with KC will screw us. This is an important point. Bradway is great friends with Peterson and IMO will be less inclined to hold his feet to the fire. I have a feeling that we will not be totally satisfied with any compensation in this deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BwanaZulia Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I totally agree. If Herm is willing to listen to the winds of KC, he has his foot out the door and as a Jet fan, although I like him, I say Good Day SIR! Of course, that is a lot of ifs and rumors and rumors on top of ifs, so we shall see. BZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I totally agree. If Herm is willing to listen to the winds of KC, he has his foot out the door and as a Jet fan, although I like him, I say Good Day SIR! Of course, that is a lot of ifs and rumors and rumors on top of ifs, so we shall see. BZ good point,, its ok to like a coach although we disagree,,but when the guy u like or hate wants to leave, ,its not healthy in long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.