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I am so angry. Izdick is a tool.


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24 teams passed on Marino. !2 on Jim Kelly and Esiason, 31 on Brett Favre, Joe Montana, and Tom Brady. All of them on Kurt Warner. The upside on a QB is way more than on a safety. Granted the chance to fail is there, as with Pick 6. But again a "hard hitting safety"  may not be all that useful in Goodell's NFL. If Manziel is all  that, Idzik and  the other  30 GMs who didn't take him are going to look very shortsighted. Best I can tell they shieed away because he is a loudmouth, likes women and parties like a...22 year old American male with some extra cash in his wallet. KInda missed to where he robs banks. Being a straight male who likes to have a few pops is now grounds for condemnation. 

 

As to Smith-other than having Tayvon Austin at WV, he was mostly okay. Had occasion to watch the Pinstripe Bowl vs. Syracuse; nothing great. And Manziel lit up a whole bunch of SEC defenses in ways Smith could only dream about. 

 

In short, Idizk is the typical scared to death executive in his industry who fails to dare to be great. 

 

I can understand you feeling that way based on your clearly very high opinion of Manziel, but your argument is heavily dependent on an individual being convinced Manziel is going to be worth a damn in the NFL.  It's safe to say that there are a lot of vastly different opinions of the kid, many which are not so positive, and have been since long before he was starting his NFL career by bumping lines in public bathrooms.

 

If Idzik, or any of the other GMs who passed on Manziel, didn't think he was going to be worth a damn, then it has absolutely nothing at all to do with being scared; it has to do with not making some pick they simply don't agree with.  Let's not forget that even the Browns opted to pass on him the first time they had their chance.  Of course none of this means that he won't end up working out, but that still doesn't necessarily support your conclusion.  After all, you bring up Kurt Warner as an example, but you certainly can't make a serious argument that the only reason he didn't go #1 overall was because teams were "scared".

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Funny you should  say that becuase I heard an interesting quote from a reporter the other day (can't remember who) but basically said something to Rex about all the different options in the backfield with a deep RB cast and he said Rex just smiled.  I wouldn't be shocked if they went back to running it more than throwing it, HOWEVER, throwing it deep more often when they do throw.  So run the hell out of it to draw the defense in, then beat 'em deep when they do.  Sacn numbers could still end up being pretty high though with Geno taking shots down the field.

 

I would imagine the hope with the speed and better WRs is that we will be able to have the WRs go deep more often (Geno was fairly successful there in 2013) and when it is cleared out come back underneath to Johnson and Amaro.  Johnson should help bail things out a ton compared to Ivory and Amaro should be comparable to Winslow and hopefully an vast improvement over time. 

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I can understand you feeling that way based on your clearly very high opinion of Manziel, but your argument is heavily dependent on an individual being convinced Manziel is going to be worth a damn in the NFL.  It's safe to say that there are a lot of vastly different opinions of the kid, many which are not so positive, and have been since long before he was starting his NFL career by bumping lines in public bathrooms.

 

If Idzik, or any of the other GMs who passed on Manziel, didn't think he was going to be worth a damn, then it has absolutely nothing at all to do with being scared; it has to do with not making some pick they simply don't agree with.  Let's not forget that even the Browns opted to pass on him the first time they had their chance.  Of course none of this means that he won't end up working out, but that still doesn't necessarily support your conclusion.  After all, you bring up Kurt Warner as an example, but you certainly can't make a serious argument that the only reason he didn't go #1 overall was because teams were "scared".

No.

Merely the upside for Manziel is way higher and more impactful than Pryor. Look, Pryor may be a great safety. But his hard hitter thing is being totally negated by the rules. Get the sense that Vick's signing precluded picking Manziel more than anything else.

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No.Merely the upside for Manziel is way higher and more impactful than Pryor. Look, Pryor may be a great safety. But his hard hitter thing is being totally negated by the rules. Get the sense that Vick's signing precluded picking Manziel more than anything else.

The floor is also way lower. Way, way lower. And I really think that's of prime concern to John Idzik.

And he, regardless of your feelings, maybe has some faith in his second round pick from the previous year.

And maybe you're also overstating the idea that what Pryor brings to the table has been outlawed.

If Manziel turns out to be the sh*t, you'll get to have a lot to say. I said it at the time, that if there's one guy who can make the Pryor selection look bad, it's Manziel. We'll see.

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The floor is also way lower. Way, way lower. And I really think that's of prime concern to John Idzik.

And he, regardless of your feelings, maybe has some faith in his second round pick from the previous year.

And maybe you're also overstating the idea that what Pryor brings to the table has been outlawed.

If Manziel turns out to be the sh*t, you'll get to have a lot to say. I said it at the time, that if there's one guy who can make the Pryor selection look bad, it's Manziel. We'll see.

"maybe has some faith in his second round pick from the previous year" 2nd round picks fail all the time. Better you cut bait sooner than later.

Seen nothing so far to say SMith is anything but mediocre at best. Or Vick would not be here.

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"maybe has some faith in his second round pick from the previous year" 2nd round picks fail all the time. Better you cut bait sooner than later.

Seen nothing so far to say SMith is anything but mediocre at best. Or Vick would not be here.

 

If this was your answer to a logic test question, you'd be marked wrong. 

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Good Lord. Hitting hard is not outlawed. Hitting hard is not BEING outlawed. Leaving your feet to blindside guys with their back turned is. Helmet to helmet (which is not even Pryor's thing anyway) is outlawed. If Pryor was a one-trick pony that just hit hard and did little else, he wouldn't have had a 1st round grade - or barely even a 4th round grade - in a draft class like 2014. Hell, Eric Smith hit hard enough to break the jaw of a big WR wearing his helmet. That doesn't make someone a 1st round prospect. Smith was a reach even using a 3rd round compensatory pick (basically a high 4th).

So the big deal with Pryor being solely his ability to hit hard is utter silliness. And I don't even know much about the guy's college career. But I do know guys don't get consensus 1st round grades because of a thing that even a strong, non-athlete can do.

 

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Good Lord. Hitting hard is not outlawed. Hitting hard is not BEING outlawed. Leaving your feet to blindside guys with their back turned is. Helmet to helmet (which is not even Pryor's thing anyway) is outlawed. If Pryor was a one-trick pony that just hit hard and did little else, he wouldn't have had a 1st round grade - or barely even a 4th round grade - in a draft class like 2014. Hell, Eric Smith hit hard enough to break the jaw of a big WR wearing his helmet. That doesn't make someone a 1st round prospect. Smith was a reach even using a 3rd round compensatory pick (basically a high 4th).

So the big deal with Pryor being solely his ability to hit hard is utter silliness. And I don't even know much about the guy's college career. But I do know guys don't get consensus 1st round grades because of a thing that even a strong, non-athlete can do.

The letter of the law allows for hard hits, but the enforcement is a different story. Anything other than a form tackle drew a flag last year.

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The downside of taking Manziel in round 1 is a bit more than "oh well, let's try again next year" if he doesn't work out. This is (among other reasons) why so many GMs passed on him (and other round 1 QBs). You take a QB in round 1 - particularly a super high profile one like Manziel - and he's getting his shot whether it's justified or not. And if not, he takes the whole team down with him unless you miraculously happen to have castoff Kurt Warner as your backup, ready for the 2nd out-from-nowhere surge in a miracle of a career.

Arizona had a SB team with Warner. The same exact team with Leinart would have been 5-11, and during that same playoff run fans would instead have been arguing what to do with their top 5 pick the following April. One concern is Manziel is Leinart (minus the height, plus the cocaine). And without Warner there, Leinart would have been Arizona's QB for a couple of forgettable seasons despite true SB potential. Of course in hindsight, had they gone with only Leinart, the team never would have been talked about in such terms, and those suggesting SB potential would have been laughed at.

A bad, high-profile, 1st round QB - one who MUST be given his chance and then some - takes down a whole franchise. He wastes prime years of other good (if not stud) players that may not be as good or even on the team anymore by the time you get the next QB in place with a year or two under his belt. Not to mention the beast of a player who may have been on the team in his stead.

As though Jets fans, in particular, needed any proof of this.

And I'm quite sure if the Jets - from Idzik on down to Lee - thought Geno really didn't have the mental+physical ability, they'd have drafted another QB this year prior to the very bottom of round 6, if only to do so. It serves the team no purpose to do otherwise. So they clearly do believe Smith has potential. They will either be right or they will be wrong.

Lastly, as it's been mentioned dozens of times, Cleveland (who had nothing but Hoyer, with 1 year remaining on his contract, not even Geno Smith with 3 years) decided to draft a DB over Manziel. The guy fell right into their lap and they said, "No thanks. We'll take a #2 CB instead."

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The letter of the law allows for hard hits, but the enforcement is a different story. Anything other than a form tackle drew a flag last year.

 

a non-form tackle set the tone in the SB last year.  intimidation still counts.  broncos were intimidated

 

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Yeah, you're right, 22-23. But that only puts us behind 2 teams in most available space. Other teams have guys to re-sign 2-3 years down the line as well, it's not like we're alone in that regard.

And players who should be lifers for there teams often become free agents do to bad financial situations.

Not to mention if there's a run on expensive players next year who could make us instant contenders we will have money, cap room, young talent, and likely be playoff contenders in a great city with a great stadium.

Thats a easy sales pitch.

Likely push for Revis and the best receiver.

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And players who should be lifers for there teams often become free agents do to bad financial situations.

Not to mention if there's a run on expensive players next year who could make us instant contenders we will have money, cap room, young talent, and likely be playoff contenders in a great city with a great stadium.

Thats a easy sales pitch.

Likely push for Revis and the best receiver.

Not likely.

And so far, what we've seen of Idzik is that if there's a run on expensive players, he's pretty much watching from the sidelines. Hopefully he'll spend the money on his own players as their contracts come up. That was another Tanny failing, spending big on other team's free agents, while treating his own poorly. But we haven't seen Idzik do that yet, either.

The theory is that he's gonna spend on Mo and Kerley coming up, and that he'll spend when he feels settled at the QB position. We'll see.

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Not likely.

And so far, what we've seen of Idzik is that if there's a run on expensive players, he's pretty much watching from the sidelines. Hopefully he'll spend the money on his own players as their contracts come up. That was another Tanny failing, spending big on other team's free agents, while treating his own poorly. But we haven't seen Idzik do that yet, either.

The theory is that he's gonna spend on Mo and Kerley coming up, and that he'll spend when he feels settled at the QB position. We'll see.

 

Why do we want to pay Kerley?  I don't want to pay him much and I doubt Idzik does either.  Certainly nothing that would impact the cap.  I don't get that criticism of Tannenbaum either.  The problem was the quality of the players not failing to sign them.  Tannebaum certainly spent on Revis, D'Brick and Mangold.  Sanchez too.  Was there one significant player he let walk that did anything elsewhere?  Ihedigbo?  Woodhead was not a cap casualty. Who else did he fail to re-sign?  Drew Coleman?  Chris Baker? Hobson?  PItoitua walked, but c'mon - he was in a log jam.

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