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Michael Irvin and Cris Carter assess Stephen Hill


T0mShane

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I would add Laveranues Coles in there. But I agree we have had a lousy track record with offensive draft picks.

 

Coles and Moss really...granted,  Moss didn't do much while he was here but that was obviously a result of poor coaching.  He turned out to be what the Jets expected him to be when they took him, but sadly he did it elsewhere.

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I would add Laveranues Coles in there. But I agree we have had a lousy track record with offensive draft picks.

 

yeah coles would have to be one--although his major contributions was after he came back from WSH ;)

 

but yeah, that was an excellent third round pick so i'll give you that

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BINGO!

I'm extremely familiar with the moderation styles of other Jets message boards. When Max and I (etc) built this place, our primary focus was on allowing people to speak their minds passionately but respectfully without fear of getting sh*t on. True story.

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yeah coles would have to be one--although his major contributions was after he came back from WSH ;)

but yeah, that was an excellent third round pick so i'll give you that

It's funny how we've only had success in drafting receivers on the offensive side. Our QB picks have been abysmal, and our TEs have been really bad as well. RBs have been mediocre at best.

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We can never not love each other.

Because the mods are active posters, and because the mods have the same opinions (generally) it emboldens those of similar opinion (and less interest in honest debate) to go apesh*t on anyone of dissenting opinion. It's your fault(s) because you'll foment a gang-beating of someone whose opinions don't agree with your own. To whit, I made a rather innocuous post recently about Calvin Pryor having a concussion and what that might mean for his future moving forward given his style of play. For this, I was attacked by the usual suspects, as though had personally given Pryor the concussion. You know who was involved in that attack? Maxman. After the usual suspects got done calling me a "troll," they went on to talk about Calvin Pryor's concussion and what that might mean for his future given his style of play. It's not the post itself that brings the board down--it's the 15 halfwits who scan the board looking to scream at anyone saying anything they perceive to be anti-Jets. The end result is that those who want to actually talk about Jets issues go back to Twitter and you're left with amped-up actual trolls who seek out confrontation from the above-mentioned halfwits. As mods--and I say this as a former mod--you shouldn't look to control the content, but you should look to preserve the right to reasoned speech whether you agree with it or not. Just my two cents.

 

I'm not going to comment about what you said and whether or not it's true, and I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the Pryor story is 100% true.  Do you think you've made yourself a target by constantly bashing the Jets to the point that when you make a valid observation people see  your name and expect it to be in the same spirit as the other 90% of your posts?  I'll admit that when I see  your name on a post I expect it to be something that rips the team in some way, shape, or form.  If I'm wrong, and it's a legit comment and an attempt at an actual conversation, I'll gladly jump in and go back and forth a little bit.  It's just my .02, but this place is a lot better when people talk football in the football threads, and ignore the topic if it's not something they have something to add to.  Can't we all just get along?

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We can never not love each other.

Because the mods are active posters, and because the mods have the same opinions (generally) it emboldens those of similar opinion (and less interest in honest debate) to go apesh*t on anyone of dissenting opinion. It's your fault(s) because you'll inadvertently foment a gang-beating of someone whose opinions don't agree with your own. To whit, I made a rather innocuous post recently about Calvin Pryor having a concussion and what that might mean for his future moving forward given his style of play. For this, I was attacked by the usual suspects, as though I had personally given Pryor the concussion. You know who was involved in that attack? Maxman. After the usual suspects got done calling me a "troll," they went on to talk about Calvin Pryor's concussion and what that might mean for his future given his style of play. It's not the post itself that brings the board down--it's the 15 halfwits who scan the board looking to scream at anyone saying anything they perceive to be anti-Jets. The end result is that those who want to actually talk about Jets issues go back to Twitter and you're left with amped-up actual trolls who seek out confrontation from the above-mentioned halfwits. As mods--and I say this as a former mod--you shouldn't look to control the content, but you should look to preserve the right to reasoned speech whether you agree with it or not. Just my two cents.

Klecko, Jif and jf80. who are the other 12?

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I'm not going to comment about what you said and whether or not it's true, and I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the Pryor story is 100% true. Do you think you've made yourself a target by constantly bashing the Jets to the point that when you make a valid observation people see your name and expect it to be in the same spirit as the other 90% of your posts? I'll admit that when I see your name on a post I expect it to be something that rips the team in some way, shape, or form. If I'm wrong, and it's a legit comment and an attempt at an actual conversation, I'll gladly jump in and go back and forth a little bit. It's just my .02, but this place is a lot better when people talk football in the football threads, and ignore the topic if it's not something they have something to add to. Can't we all just get along?

No, you're exactly right, Glenn. I know I make myself a target, and I personally don't mind getting screamed at. Many times, as with sourceworx or KSJets, the interactions can be funny. What I object to recently is this increasingly prevalent phenomenon of any post not entirely pro-Jets being dismissed as "trolling." We're in the sixth year of a coaching regime, and even the most ardent Jets fans are predicting a total between 7 and 9 wins, and we've looked dreadful in the preseason. There are plenty of warts to discuss. But, every time we try and have those conversations, the rhetoric instantly turns malicious and threads turn to sh1t.

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No, you're exactly right, Glenn. I know I make myself a target, and I personally don't mind getting screamed at. Many times, as with sourceworx or KSJets, the interactions can be funny. What I object to recently is this increasingly prevalent phenomenon of any post not entirely pro-Jets being dismissed as "trolling." We're in the sixth year of a coaching regime, and even the most ardent Jets fans are predicting a total between 7 and 9 wins, and we've looked dreadful in the preseason. There are plenty of warts to discuss. But, every time we try and have those conversations, the rhetoric instantly turns malicious and threads turn to sh1t.

 

Well then maybe everyone should try to reign it in a bit.  I see what you're saying, but without dissecting the board and going back to read through every post nobody can really say what's going on.  I can just say that I find myself reading multiple threads and saying to myself "dammit, again with this same discussion" and that's been going on for a while now.  It's almost like the title of the thread is meaningless because the conversations all end up being the same.

 

Dammit...let the season start already!

 

Oh, and I still say this is a make-or-break season for Hill.  If he shows anything, you keep him around.  If he continues to struggle with producing or staying healthy, probably time to move on.

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There was a play in the last preseason game where Geno saw Hill and chose not to throw it to him.  I don't think Geno really trusts Hill. 

 

There is definitely something to this.  There was a stretch of 3-4 games last year where I don't even think Hill was targeted.  I thought maybe he was hurt or just not getting  open, then when Simms relieved Geno, he tried to hit Hill in the end zone but over-threw him.  At that point I knew something had to be up.  How do you refuse to throw to a guy who is 6' 4'' for several weeks at a time.  You cannot tell me there was NEVER a sitution where he was in a position to make a play. 

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That's why I liked what they did in this draft.  They knew WR was a need, they had a ton of picks, so take three of 'em.  It may turn out that none of 'em are any good, and it may be a mixed bag of anywere from great to terrible.  We'll know in a few years, but we know now that they're making an effort to change that trend.

 

Wait, you liked that draft?

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Wait, you liked that draft?

 

Sure did.  They needed to add offensive weapons and they took a TE with over 100 catches and three WR's who were productive in college and have the speed to make plays.  Now, since none of them  have played an NFL down yet, I can't say how the draft turned out, but I liked the approach.  Surround your young QB with targets, and take a safety who can help out a little bit on the deep balls that KILLED us last year, and definitely have an impact in forcing turnovers which this defense has struggled to do.

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Sure did.  They needed to add offensive weapons and they took a TE with over 100 catches and three WR's who were productive in college and have the speed to make plays.  Now, since none of them  have played an NFL down yet, I can't say how the draft turned out, but I liked the approach.  Surround your young QB with targets, and take a safety who can help out a little bit on the deep balls that KILLED us last year, and definitely have an impact in forcing turnovers which this defense has struggled to do.

 

You are an optimistic person. Those 3 WR's were all horrible picks. The TE has a lot to learn and the jury is out on the Safety still. The rest of the draft sucks.

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We can never not love each other.

Because the mods are active posters, and because the mods have the same opinions (generally) it emboldens those of similar opinion (and less interest in honest debate) to go apesh*t on anyone of dissenting opinion. It's your fault(s) because you'll inadvertently foment a gang-beating of someone whose opinions don't agree with your own. To whit, I made a rather innocuous post recently about Calvin Pryor having a concussion and what that might mean for his future moving forward given his style of play. For this, I was attacked by the usual suspects, as though I had personally given Pryor the concussion. You know who was involved in that attack? Maxman. After the usual suspects got done calling me a "troll," they went on to talk about Calvin Pryor's concussion and what that might mean for his future given his style of play. It's not the post itself that brings the board down--it's the 15 halfwits who scan the board looking to scream at anyone saying anything they perceive to be anti-Jets. The end result is that those who want to actually talk about Jets issues go back to Twitter and you're left with amped-up actual trolls who seek out confrontation from the above-mentioned halfwits. As mods--and I say this as a former mod--you shouldn't look to control the content, but you should look to preserve the right to reasoned speech whether you agree with it or not. Just my two cents.

I don't have any desire to do that, and neither does anyone else. I also don't want to have the same conversation in every thread. And like I said, if the answer to everything is, "because Rex sucks," then that's what happens. We don't even need threads here anymore. We could just call the entire forum: Rex Sucks, Discuss. But I really don't think that that's what the majority of people here really want.

I want you to post more stuff like that Pryor commentary. That's good stuff. And if that becomes the majority of what you do around here. You'll see those empty-headed attacks stop. AFJ said it, when I see your name attached to a thread, I have certain expectations. As in this thread, where your opening salvo did not disappoint. Before we could even start to discuss the merits of the article or it's sources, you had four posts in focusing on one sentence that you could use to focus on Rex. Ugh.

The mods don't all share the same opinions. Max, god bless him, is a died in the wool homer. Me and Sperm are probably a lot more positive here than in real life to counter the negativity. Faba sides with you when it comes to Rex, but understands he doesn't need to bring every thread around to discuss it. Thor likes men, Joe likes dating cousins, and Crusher likes food. We have a lot of diversity. We want honest, lively discussion/debate. All I'm saying is that when it always gets brought back to the same old tired subject, the discussion dies. So I don't want to moderate content, but I do want to steer conversations in a way that they will be more interesting to everyone.

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And back on subject, I'm rooting for Salas or Enunwa to steal the #2 job from Hill or Nelson. I was all for giving Hill this season to see if he would break out, but his preseason so far has been less than inspiring. And Nelson, really, does nothing for me. Idzik didn't spend that second rounder on Hill, so I don't think he'll stand in the way if Rex and Mornhinweg decide that the best course of action is to part ways with the kid.

It's a shame. So much potential there. He'll definitely get scooped up if they cut him. It'll be interesting to see what happens from there, though.

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You are an optimistic person. Those 3 WR's were all horrible picks. The TE has a lot to learn and the jury is out on the Safety still. The rest of the draft sucks.

When it comes to the draft, I do tend to be pretty optomistic if I like the approach.  Amaro scares me more than any of them to be honest.  I just have a bad feeling about that pick, but hopefully the Jets FO knows more than I do.  Again, in a few years we'll know if the picks were good or not, but I really like the thought process.  Give the kid QB options.

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We can never not love each other.

Because the mods are active posters, and because the mods have the same opinions (generally) it emboldens those of similar opinion (and less interest in honest debate) to go apesh*t on anyone of dissenting opinion. It's your fault(s) because you'll inadvertently foment a gang-beating of someone whose opinions don't agree with your own. To whit, I made a rather innocuous post recently about Calvin Pryor having a concussion and what that might mean for his future moving forward given his style of play. For this, I was attacked by the usual suspects, as though I had personally given Pryor the concussion. You know who was involved in that attack? Maxman. After the usual suspects got done calling me a "troll," they went on to talk about Calvin Pryor's concussion and what that might mean for his future given his style of play. It's not the post itself that brings the board down--it's the 15 halfwits who scan the board looking to scream at anyone saying anything they perceive to be anti-Jets. The end result is that those who want to actually talk about Jets issues go back to Twitter and you're left with amped-up actual trolls who seek out confrontation from the above-mentioned halfwits. As mods--and I say this as a former mod--you shouldn't look to control the content, but you should look to preserve the right to reasoned speech whether you agree with it or not. Just my two cents.

 

Troll

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When it comes to the draft, I do tend to be pretty optomistic if I like the approach.  Amaro scares me more than any of them to be honest.  I just have a bad feeling about that pick, but hopefully the Jets FO knows more than I do.  Again, in a few years we'll know if the picks were good or not, but I really like the thought process.  Give the kid QB options.

 

Fair enough. I'm seriously leaning towards doubting Rex and Idzik. Idzik probably deserves another chance with his own coaching staff. But then I think about MM.

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And back on subject, I'm rooting for Salas or Enunwa to steal the #2 job from Hill or Nelson. I was all for giving Hill this season to see if he would break out, but his preseason so far has been less than inspiring. And Nelson, really, does nothing for me. Idzik didn't spend that second rounder on Hill, so I don't think he'll stand in the way if Rex and Mornhinweg decide that the best course of action is to part ways with the kid.

It's a shame. So much potential there. He'll definitely get scooped up if they cut him. It'll be interesting to see what happens from there, though.

 

Yep, I know we sometimes tend to be swayed by what we see in person as opposed to what we hear or read about, and that's why I'm rooting for Enunwa.  I was only at camp for two days but I thought he was the best all-around guy and made two great catches.  One fully extended on an overthrow, and the other when he was double covered and out-muscled the DB's.  He looked good enough that I'm surprised we haven't heard his name called in the games, but I'd love to see him get the #2 job.

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And back on subject, I'm rooting for Salas or Enunwa to steal the #2 job from Hill or Nelson. I was all for giving Hill this season to see if he would break out, but his preseason so far has been less than inspiring. And Nelson, really, does nothing for me. Idzik didn't spend that second rounder on Hill, so I don't think he'll stand in the way if Rex and Mornhinweg decide that the best course of action is to part ways with the kid.

It's a shame. So much potential there. He'll definitely get scooped up if they cut him. It'll be interesting to see what happens from there, though.

 

They're saving him for the regular season.  He's the secret weapon we dont want to teams to know about.

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People have unrealistic expectations with draft picks- if you are lucky the top tier will have a impact on your team over time- that si the normal on all teams

Yeah. It's exciting to talk about having 12 draft picks, but the reality is that 3/4 of them were selected on the draft's final day. You hope those fourth rounders can do something, and then everything after that is gravy. Losing their third rounder to an ACL hurts. If Amaro is slow getting out of the gate, the draft probably isn't going to look all that terrific this year.

That is, unless a guy like Enunwa or Enemkpali explodes onto the scene.

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And back on subject, I'm rooting for Salas or Enunwa to steal the #2 job from Hill or Nelson. I was all for giving Hill this season to see if he would break out, but his preseason so far has been less than inspiring. And Nelson, really, does nothing for me. Idzik didn't spend that second rounder on Hill, so I don't think he'll stand in the way if Rex and Mornhinweg decide that the best course of action is to part ways with the kid.

It's a shame. So much potential there. He'll definitely get scooped up if they cut him. It'll be interesting to see what happens from there, though.

 

 

I like the fact that the JETS have kept the WR positions beyond Decker and Kerley open for competition.

 

Having said that looking at the talent level the JETS have Hill will make it and he will not be cut.  Its just that while the JETS do have some depth at the position that depth is at the lower end. Hill's talent level and his ceiling is above that and given he is on a rookie contract its cost effective to keep him on the team. The only way Hill was ever getting cut this season if he showed up at training camp pulled a McKnight.

 

Enunwa had a great practice before the 2nd pre-season game that one day where he made two great catches but i did not see him on the field for that 2nd pre-season game. Correct me if i am wrong and if anyone spotted him on the field. I would like to see if he makes it on the field for the 3rd pre-season game. Otherwise i would think the JETS plan is to hide him on the PS squad and give him a red shirt year.

 

Salas is good but its tough to see him as a #2. Its based on whatever little i have seen him play. And the JETS still had him out with the 2nd unit in the 2nd pre-season game. Don't think i have seen him play with the 1's. Which tells me if he makes it which he should he would not be very high up the depth chart in the coaches mind.

 

Nelson had decent regular season with the JETS without the benefit of a training camp. He has had a decent camp from all the noises (twitter feed) i have heard. At this point he is in decent shape to make the team. Somebody has to step up big time out of nowhere to dislodge him from the team.

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Troll

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

 

We're Jets fans. But many if us see this is not gonna work. And it's morphed into some like this poster that equate being 100% on board with Rex Rya's ghastly program  as being a "frue fan" or some such nonsense.

 

This all feels a lot like the last 2 seasons of Herman Edwards, Or exactly like then.  You aren't doing anything with this offense. And without decent cover corners the defense isn't so great either. Basically we're conceding the divison to Bellicheat again.

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I don't have any desire to do that, and neither does anyone else. I also don't want to have the same conversation in every thread. And like I said, if the answer to everything is, "because Rex sucks," then that's what happens. We don't even need threads here anymore. We could just call the entire forum: Rex Sucks, Discuss. But I really don't think that that's what the majority of people here really want.

I want you to post more stuff like that Pryor commentary. That's good stuff. And if that becomes the majority of what you do around here. You'll see those empty-headed attacks stop. AFJ said it, when I see your name attached to a thread, I have certain expectations. As in this thread, where your opening salvo did not disappoint. Before we could even start to discuss the merits of the article or it's sources, you had four posts in focusing on one sentence that you could use to focus on Rex. Ugh.

The mods don't all share the same opinions. Max, god bless him, is a died in the wool homer. Me and Sperm are probably a lot more positive here than in real life to counter the negativity. Faba sides with you when it comes to Rex, but understands he doesn't need to bring every thread around to discuss it. Thor likes men, Joe likes dating cousins, and Crusher likes food. We have a lot of diversity. We want honest, lively discussion/debate. All I'm saying is that when it always gets brought back to the same old tired subject, the discussion dies. So I don't want to moderate content, but I do want to steer conversations in a way that they will be more interesting to everyone.

 

i just dont "like" dating cousins, i LOVE dating cousins

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Thanks for the thoughtful analysis.

 

We're Jets fans. But many if us see this is not gonna work. And it's morphed into some like this poster that equate being 100% on board with Rex Rya's ghastly program  as being a "frue fan" or some such nonsense.

 

This all feels a lot like the last 2 seasons of Herman Edwards, Or exactly like then.  You aren't doing anything with this offense. And without decent cover corners the defense isn't so great either. Basically we're conceding the divison to Bellicheat again.

 

 

 

Not sure what you're talking about with the first stuff but yeah I'd say drafting a QB last year, signing the best available veteran QB this season, the best FA RB, best FA WR and then drafting 3 pass catching options with your first 5 picks, is doing something about offense.  Whether it works or not is yet to be seen.

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Not sure what you're talking about with the first stuff

Let me help you understand. you just ruined a thread that was back on track with your atrocious sarcasm/think its funny humor that nobody gets or laughs at.

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Let me help you understand. you just ruined a thread that was back on track with your atrocious sarcasm/think its funny humor that nobody gets or laughs at.

 

You helping me understand things is fun because you're very smart and handsome.

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