Michael Irvin and Cris Carter assess Stephen Hill

[T0mShane]

I will root for them to win every Sunday at 1.

I don't speak for them, but i cannot imagine BP or T0m doing anything else.

Damn straight, my friend.

[ZachEY]

We can never not love each other.

Because the mods are active posters, and because the mods have the same opinions (generally) it emboldens those of similar opinion (and less interest in honest debate) to go apesh*t on anyone of dissenting opinion. It's your fault(s) because you'll inadvertently foment a gang-beating of someone whose opinions don't agree with your own. To whit, I made a rather innocuous post recently about Calvin Pryor having a concussion and what that might mean for his future moving forward given his style of play. For this, I was attacked by the usual suspects, as though I had personally given Pryor the concussion. You know who was involved in that attack? Maxman. After the usual suspects got done calling me a "troll," they went on to talk about Calvin Pryor's concussion and what that might mean for his future given his style of play. It's not the post itself that brings the board down--it's the 15 halfwits who scan the board looking to scream at anyone saying anything they perceive to be anti-Jets. The end result is that those who want to actually talk about Jets issues go back to Twitter and you're left with amped-up actual trolls who seek out confrontation from the above-mentioned halfwits. As mods--and I say this as a former mod--you shouldn't look to control the content, but you should look to preserve the right to reasoned speech whether you agree with it or not. Just my two cents.

Oh, so now you troll the mods too?

[Sperm Edwards]

I will root for them to win every Sunday at 1.

 

I don't speak for them, but i cannot imagine BP or T0m  doing anything else.

 

For all 3 wins it's wished that they maximally end up with?

[Bugg]

For all 3 wins it's wished that they maximally end up with?

The Raiders, Bills and Fins  2x each, and figure a lucky bounce here or there, this could be a 7-9 win team. mostly 13-10 type borefests(which is better than losing). I give the devil Rex Ryan his due; unlike Herman Edwrds, despite bad corners and not much of a front 7 pass rush, he will find a way to beat the tomato cans on the schedule with defense. But the ceiling is limited because the offense again will be  so awful.

[#27TheDominator]

So I am on the other side of the fence. And I will tell you, to me this has NOTHING to do with who is a good or bad fan. I don't consider people who disagree with my viewpoints bad fans.  I am just tired of feeling dirty for believing in Rex Ryan.

 

Maybe I am wrong.  Maybe he is a terrible coach.  Maybe he will get fired after this season.

 

You know what? That doesn't change anything for me. I won't stop believing. I won't stop rooting. I won't stop pulling for Rex to get it done.  That is what being a fan means to me.

 

And I honestly really don't worry about other people. If they choose not to believe that is fine. But too many threads are getting derailed with Rex hate. It just gets in the way a bit when you are on this side of the fence.

 

I don't think that the majority of guys that hate him think he is terrible coach.  They may hate him and 0see him as too imperfect to ever succeed at the highest level.  One of the major things that bothers them is that he seems too good at what he does to hit rock bottom and get canned. 

[T0mShane]

Oh, so now you troll the mods too?

I will troll whoever I need to in order to fulfill my perverse desires.

[T0mShane]

I don't think that the majority of guys that hate him think he is terrible coach. They may hate him and 0see him as too imperfect to ever succeed at the highest level. One of the major things that bothers them is that he seems too good at what he does to hit rock bottom and get canned.

100%

[CTM]

No, you're exactly right, Glenn. I know I make myself a target, and I personally don't mind getting screamed at. Many times, as with sourceworx or KSJets, the interactions can be funny. What I object to recently is this increasingly prevalent phenomenon of any post not entirely pro-Jets being dismissed as "trolling." We're in the sixth year of a coaching regime, and even the most ardent Jets fans are predicting a total between 7 and 9 wins, and we've looked dreadful in the preseason. There are plenty of warts to discuss. But, every time we try and have those conversations, the rhetoric instantly turns malicious and threads turn to sh1t.

 

 

Lol.. Come on man, you bait these guys all the time. That's what trolling is. The fact that you don't admit to it is mind boggling, look at how you started this thread for christs sake, you knew exactly the reaction you were going to get the minute you posted it. Trying to turn around and blame it on the mods is T0mshameful

[BP]

I will root for them to win every Sunday at 1.

 

I don't speak for them, but i cannot imagine BP or T0m  doing anything else.

Of course I root for the Jets to win every Sunday. its just that sooooooo many years of frustration wears on me after a while. lets hope they do well this year so I can stop being miserable all the time

[Sperm Edwards]

The Raiders, Bills and Fins  2x each, and figure a lucky bounce here or there, this could be a 7-9 win team. mostly 13-10 type borefests(which is better than losing). I give the devil Rex Ryan his due; unlike Herman Edwrds, despite bad corners and not much of a front 7 pass rush, he will find a way to beat the tomato cans on the schedule with defense. But the ceiling is limited because the offense again will be  so awful.

 

I'm not referring to predictions of no more than 3 wins, which is absolutely fair. I'm referring to rooting for no more than 3 wins as the desired final outcome.

[BP]

I don't think that the majority of guys that hate him think he is terrible coach.  They may hate him and 0see him as too imperfect to ever succeed at the highest level.  One of the major things that bothers them is that he seems too good at what he does to hit rock bottom and get canned. 

I have said this a million times before. if Rex wins a super bowl all is forgiven. I want a super bowl, I have been waiting way too many years. if I criticize the Jets for raising their fists and jumping up and down in excitement over being mediocre and some people bruise their vaginas over it, I really dont care. get over it

[Klecko73isGod]

Lol.. Come on man, you bait these guys all the time. That's what trolling is. The fact that you don't admit to it is mind boggling, look at how you started this thread for christs sake, you knew exactly the reaction you were going to get the minute you posted it. Trying to turn around and blame it on the mods is T0mshameful

 

+1

[#27TheDominator]

The problem is that the guys that like Rex generally see his flaws.  Some of us think they can be overcome, some don't.  There is probably a good level of personal preference - some guys like a quiet coach, some guys a tough coach, some like a blowhard.  I personally don't care.  For instance, I hate the sh*t I hear coming from Coughlin's mouth way more than anything I have heard from Rex.  IMO Rex is just supporting his guys and taking the pressure.  Coughlin actually believes that sh*t.  We end up arguing over silly things when we are general agreement - "does being in the AFC championship with that piece of crap at QB mean he is good in the big games?"  "Cowher took X amount of years to win, Rex deserves the same".  etc etc.  It starts to sound like the you can't win without a HOF QB argument.  Obviously you can, but you don't model your team expecting to win with DIlfer or Brad Johnson. 

[jgb]

In fairness to Sperm, maybe he just doesn't like you? I am probably the most hated guy on this board (yes, probably more than you). and me and Sperm have no issues because we're still bff's, even though he cant admit it publicly anymore.

 

it is true. i really hate you. like a whole lot. suck it BP!

 

 

In any event back, to the topic of the thread before T0m ruined it, Hill doesn't look like a football player, in the same way that Gholston didn't. That is hard to overcome with coaching, unless the guy has an insanely high work ethic.

 

Also, IRvin was talking about having sh*tty QB's. Nothing to do with system or coaching. sh*tty QB's have a greater negative impact on QB production then a doofus head coach. 

 

Hill is probably what usain bolt would look like out there.

 

Once upon a time, stoicsentry was a huge Jets Homer who loved everything about the Jets...until he said something you people disagreed with, and instead of debating him on the topic, you bludgeoned him over the head and encouraged others to do the same until he became what he is today.

The End.

 

Oh! Oh! Do me next.

 

The moderators make it worse by encouraging beatdowns of any dissenting opinion. There used to be a lot of lively conversation here--we had fans of every team that used to come in and debate. But, now, that's gone. They're gone. I was gone for two years here and when I came back, everyone was gone. At first I thought it was because the JI dudes chased them out. But it's not. It's you dudes. You've turned this place into a Skip Bayless acid trip.

 

they don't encourage it, they are just bribed to look the other way. subtle but very important difference.

 

Could it be at all possible that the combo of sub-par QB play and injuries has significanlty limited his opportunities?  I would freely admit that if he had played 30 games up to this  point, with quality QB play and posted the numbers he has posted, that it may be time to move on.  But this kid posesses rare physical skills that I would hate to see a team give up on based on a few dings and poor QB play. I say you have to give  Hill one more shot to show something.  If he can't get open and make some plays this year, move on.  But if you cut him before seeing what he can do with some game time under his belt and improved QB play, I'd dread facing him with Tom Brady throwing him the ball after the Jets took a couple years to break him in to the league. 

 

Hill needs moar weaponzz

[jgb]

The problem is that the guys that like Rex generally see his flaws.  Some of us think they can be overcome, some don't.  There is probably a good level of personal preference - some guys like a quiet coach, some guys a tough coach, some like a blowhard.  I personally don't care.  For instance, I hate the sh*t I hear coming from Coughlin's mouth way more than anything I have heard from Rex.  IMO Rex is just supporting his guys and taking the pressure.  Coughlin actually believes that sh*t.  We end up arguing over silly things when we are general agreement - "does being in the AFC championship with that piece of crap at QB mean he is good in the big games?"  "Cowher took X amount of years to win, Rex deserves the same".  etc etc.  It starts to sound like the you can't win without a HOF QB argument.  Obviously you can, but you don't model your team expecting to win with DIlfer or Brad Johnson. 

 

rex could dump in my mouth if he delivered 2 Superbowl rings. the coughlin comparisons are hilarious

[Sperm Edwards]

This is an excellent thread about Stephen Hill.

[SoFlaJets]

I have said this a million times before. if Rex wins a super bowl all is forgiven. I want a super bowl, I have been waiting way too many years. if I criticize the Jets for raising their fists and jumping up and down in excitement over being mediocre and some people bruise their vaginas over it, I really dont care. get over it

Now I have said this  other times before over the years here on the boards and I'll state it once again; Max talks about this whole "good and bad fans" notion, well I think there is such a thing as some guys being better fans than others. I consider the guys like Jimmy here (BP), Max up there, Tom Shane , and Bob TJF all of these old timers who were too young to have been alive to see what a Jets Super Bowl looks like-I can tell you this it is unlike ANY other New York team championship. The closest it looks like was the Miracle Mets of 1969. That city and the states surrounding went NUTS. 

 

All of the guys who through all of the years that have spent THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of hard earned dough on tickets and gas and parking and flat beer or orange soda, all of the tailgate $ spent on food and jerseys, all of the crappy weather and crappy Jets teams THESE are the "good" fans-You guys are the one who more than any other guys, (yea and even guys like me) who DESERVE to see a NY Jets SB and have every right to complain as loudly as you want or don't want to. I hope that before I die I get to watch one more, and I would love to see YOU guys enjoying the fruits of all that you have invested come to be. 

[AFJF]

This is an excellent thread about Stephen Hill.

 

Actually, it's a fine tribute to Stephen Hill....as MM has said, Hill is "all over the map"...well done JetNation!

[#27TheDominator]

rex could dump in my mouth if he delivered 2 Superbowl rings. the coughlin comparisons are hilarious

 

Why the **** is it hilarious?  First of all, I did not compare their value as a coach.  I indicated that Coughin is a guy that people like that has what I consider a moronic viewpoint.  FIne guys for only being 5 minutes early to a meeting?  It's nonsense.  The guy had a mutiny on his hands more than once with Shockey, Tiki and Strahan.  At the point he won the super bowl he was deservedly on a hotter seat than Rex is now. Coughlin won the super bowls.  I don't like him.  If I were on a Giant board I would be insulting the church lady even though he is a good coach.  That is my point.  Just like there are guys here that insult Rex more based on the fact that they feel he is an embarassement than his coaching. 

[#27TheDominator]

rex could dump in my mouth if he delivered 2 Superbowl rings. the coughlin comparisons are hilarious

 

 

QFT.  

 

If there is one coach that will take you up on that if he wins...

[Jetsfan80]

I don't think that the majority of guys that hate him think he is terrible coach.  They may hate him and 0see him as too imperfect to ever succeed at the highest level.  One of the major things that bothers them is that he seems too good at what he does to hit rock bottom and get canned. 

 

And I've never understood this.  It makes sense for a QB, because you really do need your QB to show he's capable of winning playoffs games.  But if a HC has distinct abilities that other coaches don't and makes a tangible difference in the number of wins a team accumulates via scheme, then he's an asset.  We're supposed to believe that Idzik was "forced" to keep Rex on for another season but I think Idzik is simply pragmatic.  Unless a better coaching option appeared he wasn't going to fire the incumbent.

[T0mShane]

For all 3 wins it's wished that they maximally end up with?

#wished

[Klecko73isGod]

Why the **** is it hilarious?  First of all, I did not compare their value as a coach.  I indicated that Coughin is a guy that people like that has what I consider a moronic viewpoint.  FIne guys for only being 5 minutes early to a meeting?  It's nonsense.  The guy had a mutiny on his hands more than once with Shockey, Tiki and Strahan.  At the point he won the super bowl he was deservedly on a hotter seat than Rex is now. Coughlin won the super bowls.  I don't like him.  If I were on a Giant board I would be insulting the church lady even though he is a good coach.  That is my point.  Just like there are guys here that insult Rex more based on the fact that they feel he is an embarassement than his coaching. 

 

But according to certain posters, Coughlin is infallible and his methods are above reproach because he has won two Super Bowls. 

[T0mShane]

And I've never understood this. It makes sense for a QB, because you really do need your QB to show he's capable of winning playoffs games. But if a HC has distinct abilities that other coaches don't and makes a tangible difference in the number of wins a team accumulates via scheme, then he's an asset. We're supposed to believe that Idzik was "forced" to keep Rex on for another season but I think Idzik is simply pragmatic. Unless a better coaching option appeared he wasn't going to fire the incumbent.

Wade Phillips, Dick Lebeau, Mike Martz, Mike Singletary, Dom Capers, Jason Garrett, Buddy Ryan.

[Matt39]

What makes Rex an asset? Serious question...because after 6 years here the offense still blows. His responsibility is fixing it and he hasn't.

[Klecko73isGod]

Wade Phillips, Dick Lebeau, Mike Martz, Mike Singletary, Dom Capers, Jason Garrett, Buddy Ryan.

 

Is this a serious list?

 

Dick LeBeau was a complete trainwreck as a head coach. He only 8 games in 3 years. Guy is the definition of a career coordinator. 

 

Mike Singletary isn't even a good coordinator. 

 

Jason Garrett is Mr.8-8. 

[T0mShane]

Is this a serious list?

Dick LeBeau was a complete trainwreck as a head coach. He only 8 games in 3 years. Guy is the definition of a career coordinator.

Mike Singletary isn't even a good coordinator.

Jason Garrett is Mr.8-8.

It's a list of really good coordinators who struggled as Head Coaches. Just providing examples that skill in one area doesn't necessarily carry over.

[Matt39]

Wade Phillips and Rex Ryan are eerily similar.

[Klecko73isGod]

It's a list of really good coordinators who struggled as Head Coaches. Just providing examples that skill in one area doesn't necessarily carry over.

 

Except not everyone on the list was even a good coordinator.

 

Not to mention that as HC, Rex is objectively better than every last name on the list and it's not close. 

[jgb]

Why the **** is it hilarious?  First of all, I did not compare their value as a coach.  I indicated that Coughin is a guy that people like that has what I consider a moronic viewpoint.  FIne guys for only being 5 minutes early to a meeting?  It's nonsense.  The guy had a mutiny on his hands more than once with Shockey, Tiki and Strahan.  At the point he won the super bowl he was deservedly on a hotter seat than Rex is now. Coughlin won the super bowls.  I don't like him.  If I were on a Giant board I would be insulting the church lady even though he is a good coach.  That is my point.  Just like there are guys here that insult Rex more based on the fact that they feel he is an embarassement than his coaching. 

 

i dunno, didn't realize i had to defend what i find amusing.

 

QFT.  

 

If there is one coach that will take you up on that if he wins...

 

 

good point. mods please delete!

 

But according to certain posters, Coughlin is infallible and his methods are above reproach because he has won two Super Bowls. 

 

infallible? no. deserving of wide lattitude, regardless of whether you personnally like his style? yes

[Klecko73isGod]

i dunno, didn't realize i had to defend what i find amusing.

 

 

 

good point. mods please delete!

 

 

infallible? no. deserving of wide lattitude, regardless of whether you personnally like his style? yes

 

You're not one of the posters I was referring to. 

[#27TheDominator]

And I've never understood this.  It makes sense for a QB, because you really do need your QB to show he's capable of winning playoffs games.  But if a HC has distinct abilities that other coaches don't and makes a tangible difference in the number of wins a team accumulates via scheme, then he's an asset.  We're supposed to believe that Idzik was "forced" to keep Rex on for another season but I think Idzik is simply pragmatic.  Unless a better coaching option appeared he wasn't going to fire the incumbent.

 

To play devil's advocate - scheming to win games is generally what you want from your coordinators.  You want your head coach to set a tone, administrate properly and keep discipline.  I don't think Rex is as bad at these items as some, but he certainly deserves criticism.  

 

My main problem is the with Jets structure.  IMO the owner hires the GM or president (who hires the GM), the GM picks the coach, the coach picks the coordinators.  The Jets ass backwards system has been forcing guys on everybody so it is hard to tell who is to blame for what.  Worse, that makes discipline difficult.  Get the ******* chain of command in order.  

 

Wade Phillips, Dick Lebeau, Mike Martz, Mike Singletary, Dom Capers, Jason Garrett, Buddy Ryan.

 

I don't remember Singletary being a good coordinator.  Certainly not at the level or Rex or Buddy.  You left off Marv Lewis IMO. 

[#27TheDominator]

i dunno, didn't realize i had to defend what i find amusing.

 

Permission to laugh, granted. 

[sourceworx]

To play devil's advocate - scheming to win games is generally what you want from your coordinators. You want your head coach to set a tone, administrate properly and keep discipline. I don't think Rex is as bad at these items as some, but he certainly deserves criticism.

My main problem is the with Jets structure. IMO the owner hires the GM or president (who hires the GM), the GM picks the coach, the coach picks the coordinators. The Jets ass backwards system has been forcing guys on everybody so it is hard to tell who is to blame for what. Worse, that makes discipline difficult. Get the ******* chain of command in order.

I don't remember Singletary being a good coordinator. Certainly not at the level or Rex or Buddy. You left off Marv Lewis IMO.

He left off Marvin Lewis because it hurts his argument.

[#27TheDominator]

This is an excellent thread about Stephen Hill.

 

 

You must be thinking of the Kerley thread.