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Jetsfan80

Roster Building: Jets roster 2014 vs. 2012

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Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

The 2013 Jet offense was just as bad as 2012 and I don't really think that 2014 will be all that better. There are marginal improvements from 2012 to 2014 but it's nowhere enough considering the resources that the team has had the last two offseasons so you end up comparing two bad teams which some incremental improvements in a league where teams improve drastically from year to year all the time. 4-5 year rebuilding plans in the NFL are fools gold. 

Edited by unbanmadmike1

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There was nothing he could have done to make everyone happy.

Get out of here with this stupidity. He could've built a good, competitive team. A good team would make everyone happy. This isn't a good team. 

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How.  Tell us.  You can't call someone out for stupidity without even a hint of a suggestion of how he should have been building this good, competitive team.

By signing better players, trading for better players and drafting better players with the resources he had available to him. I'm not the GM, he is. 

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Which better players.  You're not the GM but this is a message board.  You're allowed to come up with hypotheticals.

He basically could've drafted ANY WR's that would've been better than the two duds he punted 3rd round picks on. Could've signed the best CB in the NFL. It goes on and on. I just want to know when certain posters here will hold him accountable for the roster being terrible. 2017? 18? How many years does this team need to SUCK before people get tried of the rose color glasses to hide incompetence?

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The issue here is twofold:  1.  You're already making judgments on the 2014 draft class before they've played a single regular season snap, 2.  Assuming the roster is terrible when it's clearly not (I just showed you how that is not true).

 

So you would have drafted different receivers this April and signed Revis.  Cool.  That's a start.  Anything else you would have done?

It's impossible to say because the fact that his FA and Draft classes were terrible outside of Richardson was the baseline for his 2014 failures. It builds on itself. 

Edited by unbanmadmike1

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So even though you say Idzik's draft classes were "terrible" its "impossible" for you to do better, with hindsight on your side.  Because that makes sense.

What value is there in that? You have to judge on actual results. 

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A good, competitive team wouldn't make you hate your life less. 

My life is fine, thanks for the insight. Now do you have a point?

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But you aren't judging on actual results. You are judging based on preconceived notions and impetuous stupidity. 

That is were we differ. You think the jets actual results are great because you're perfectly fine with mediocrity. I'm sure you had an 8-8 party last year because when you win 8 games with a 3 win roster that's a victory to you.  You think winning 8 games in proof of "Idzik's plan coming together." And when they go 8-8 or worse this season you'll find a reason to delude yourself into thinking it was a great season again.

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Idzik is doing a great job of building depth and closing the gap between the Jets starters and backups.    Right now the Jets have the best 2's in the NFL.....wonderful.   

 

Where is the top end talent?    Is Amaro going to be the next Graham or Gronkowski?   is milliner the next Peterson?  

 

Right now Idzik has built a great JV team.   Let me know when we have the best Varsity squad b/c right now this team is an afterthought in the discussion of superbowl contenders.  

No they don't. 

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and how many of the 12 draft picks are going to be on the opening day roster?     Idzik the patient didn't make a single move during the draft using all 12 picks.    how many of those 12 will be active week 1?  

2 it looks like. The draft was just an utter disaster and w ill haunt this franchise for years, even if Pryor is a great player. 

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Why don't we develop young talent?  Why don't we have established players?  Nothing contradictory here. 

No those things aren't contradictory. You need to do BOTH. 

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2/12 guys make the Week 1 roster "it looks like" in your expert opinion.  Great prediction!

I misread. 2 guys will actually play in the game week 1. Others will make the roster but have no impact. 

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When to judge a draft: Week 2 preseason!  

La la la lets ignore than all the reports out of camp about every rookie other than Pryor have been terrible! They are going to magically become good players once the season starts. 

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 This year is about development.  It's a process.  Enjoy it.

Sounds like the development of excuses for the team being terrible again to me.

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No rookies ever develop over time.  Ever.

Does it bother you at all that there has not been one positive report about one rookie out of TC other than Pryor? Or we just ignore that? Haven't you been watching the preseason? None of them has stood out at all. 

Edited by unbanmadmike1

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I watched 5 mins of the Giants first preseason game and I saw 2 rookies who looked better than any jet. Same goes for a bunch of teams. None of them are standing out at all and if that doesn't bother you you're fooling yourself. Especially since most of these picks were terrible reaches. The 3 WR's alone should be friable for whoever made those picks. 

Edited by unbanmadmike1

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http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/odell-beckham-hamstring-saga-at-near-farce-level/

 

Odell Beckham was their first round pick, # 12 overall.  Yet this article talks about how the Giants have "No clue" how he'll turn out.  Perhaps because they recognize these guys are mere months into their careers and it takes time to properly evaluate a young player. 

I'm not even talking about Beckham. He hasn't played yet. 

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Exactly.  And the rest of these rookies you're talking about have had at most 2-3 quarters of experience TOTAL of NFL-level play.  Bit too early to be running around making judgments, but carry on.

You would be hearing about it if any of the rookies had been standing out. 

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This was an exceedingly deep WR draft, the Jets drafted 3 WR's and they won't get anything out of any of them. That's a travesty. 

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We signed the best WR on the market.  And Idzik recognized that teams are built via the draft with some FA's sprinkled in.  Which is probably why he used all 12 of his draft picks and limited his FA spending.

Those things have nothing to do with each other unless you're a fool (which Idzik is). 

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So Jets rookie WRs haven't played = won't ever get anything out of them. Travesty.

 

Giants rookie WR hasn't played = not talking about it.

 

Clown.

LMAO you think that the duds the Jets drafted are in the same league as Beckham. Thats funny . 

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The mystery surrounding Saunders and Evans is definitely what's adding to the frustration. These were two guys we needed to play this year considering how weak we were at the wr position. Amaro seemingly having his head up his rear isn't encouraging either

McDougle we knew was injury prone but he gets a pass at least.

Don't forget Enunwa. Another dud who might not even make the roster. 

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I'm not going to care all too much about a 6th round pick.

Out of 12 picks, none of them other than Pryor has shown any signs of being a good player. Thats the bottom line. 

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Judging results without judging process is what allowed Mike Tannenbaum to burrow himself into this organization like a botfly.

It wasn't judging results that kept him here, it was misjudging results. 

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Oh wow. You are a special kind of stupid.

I like how you're just following me around the boards sh*tting up threads with insults and content-less posts. Is that what you find fun?

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Just throwing my 2 cents in but I think you need to lighten up a bit. I think most Jet fans are aware of the teams shortcomings. We were quite devoid of talent for the last few years, that much is obvious. We can't change the team or the way its decision makers think thus we are forced to live with reality. Okay so the Jets aren't the best team in the NFL. In fact we are arguably in the bottom third of the league (maybe not so arguably) but its hard to deny the fact that we are moving in a good direction. We have a slew of talented young players not to mention a ton of cap space. Its good to come to terms with reality but its a lot more fun to have a little bit of hope. Its not all doom and gloom, lighten up buddy. :)

I do deny the fact that they are moving in the right direction, that is the upsetting part. They don't have a "slew of talented young players" they have 3-4 of them which is not enough and they have shown that they either aren't willing or competent enough to property use the cap space that they do have. 

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We're the 6th youngest team in the NFL.  And whether or not you agree they can turn into players, we have the following guys aged 25 or under who were either highly ranked and talented at their respective positions coming out of college OR have so far looked like pleasant surprises:

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

RB Bilal Powell (25)

WR Jeremy Kerley (25)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24) -- Yeah, even in his 3rd season he's 24.  Still time for this cat.

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23) -- Before his ACL tear he was getting rave reviews. 

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

SS Antonio Allen (25)

 

 

That's 14 promising players 25 or under, and I may have missed some that are currently buried on the depth chart and might emerge later.  You'll notice they're spread nicely across the roster, which is a very good sign.  You'll also notice that half of the names have been acquired in the past 2 offseasons. 

 

If Geno proves to not be "the guy" this season, we'll likely be going after another young QB in the draft to replace him.

 

I'm sure you can pick apart each and every one of them for one reason or the other.  But this is a lot closer to a "slew" than just 3-4.  You're flat out wrong there.

 

Then you bring up the cap stuff as if that ties in somehow.  The FA dollars are not intended to be used to build the core of a team.  The best teams in the NFL use their FA dollars sparingly, so I'd say that Idzik is following the "proper" model.

3-4 who are standout NFL players and that includes Pryor. The rest are huge question marks. 

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You didn't say "standouts".  You said "talented".  Rookies don't develop right away.  We have a nice slew of young talent.  That is undeniable.

 

Are you already including Pryor as a standout?  When he hasn't played a down yet?

It gets worse if you don't include him...

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Indeed, if you write the other guys off it does get worse.  But I'm not willing to do that yet.  You know, because most of them are still developing.  Something young players do and stuff.

Sure but there are guys on that list that we all know won't become standouts, there are some that have a chance, and 3 that already are if you don't count Pryor. Every team in the NFL has guys in their 20s who might be good. That really isn't saying anything.  

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