Roster Building: Jets roster 2014 vs. 2012

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

This has been touched on in other topics but I think it's worthy of it's own thread.  As we head into the most important preseason game, let's go position-by-position and see if John Idzik actually has made improvements to the roster he was left with.

 

 

Quarterback

 

 

2012 QB's:  1.  Mark Sanchez   2.  Tim Tebow   3.  Greg McElroy

 

2014 QB's:  1.  Geno Smith   2.  Michael Vick   3a/3b.  Tajh Boyd/Matt Simms

 

Wholesale changes were required at the QB position, and Idzik has made some significant improvements.  Sanchez was ranked alongside Joey Harrington as the NFL's worst 4-year starter in recent history.  Tim Tebow's role was confusing on the 2012 roster, as his poor accuracy rendered him unable to actually play the position.  Greg McElroy turned out to be the real "# 2" on the roster and is currently without a home in the NFL alongside Tebow.

 

The current crop of QB's shows some promise at each spot on the depth chart.  Geno Smith took home an AFC Offensive Player of the Week honor in Week 5 of the 2013 season even with Peyton Manning playing out of his mind.  He then reverted to looking exactly like a rookie before finishing the season strong.  Vick is what he is at 34; a backup still capable of making plays with his feet and running some semblance of an offense if needed.  Boyd and Simms are competing for the # 3 job and are both better prospects than McElroy.

 

EDGE:  2014

 

 

 

Running Back

 

 

2012 RB's:  1.  Shonn Greene  2.  Bilal Powell  3.  Joe McKnight  4.  Lex Hilliard (FB) 

 

2014 RB's:  1a/1b.  Chris Johnson/Chris Ivory  2.  Bilal Powell  3a/3b.  Daryl Richardson/Alex Green  4.  Tommy Bohanon (FB)

 

Shonn Greene is in Tennessee as Bishop Sankey's backup.  Chris Johnson, the previous back Greene spelled, is now a Jet.  If this were a player for player trade, Jets fans would have taken this in a heartbeat.  Greene never lived up to the "1st round grade" he was given by Tannenbaum. 

 

Chris Ivory, who had 4.6 ypc behind a suspect line in '13, pushes the pile better than Greene ever did, and is a fine compliment to the exciting speedback Johnson.  The 4th round pick dealt for him seems well worth it, especially when you consider that Joe McKnight once cost the same price.  Powell remains in Jet green as the trusted holdover from the Tannenbaum era.  A jack-of-all-trades who has largely stayed healthy when other backs have not, he remains an ideal backup option.

 

EDGE:  2014

 

 

 

Wide Receiver

 

 

2012 WR's:  1.  Jeremy Kerley   2.  Braylon Edwards  3.  Stephen Hill    4.  Chaz Schilens   5.  Clyde Gates   6.  Jordan White 

    * Santonio Holmes (IR)

 

2014 WR's:  1.  Eric Decker  2.  Jeremy Kerley   3a/3b.  Stephen Hill/David Nelson   4a/4b.  Greg Salas/Jacoby Ford/Clyde Gates   5a/5b/5c.  Saalim Hakim/Quincy Enunwa/Michael Campbell   6.  Jalen Saunders (KR) 

     * Shaq Evans (IR)

 

Braylon Edwards, Chaz Schilens and Jordan White are all out of the league.  Ouch.  Meanwhile, Eric Decker has the look a low-end WR1, something the Jets have craved since the "Fly Boys" era.  He produced with HOFer Peyton Manning and also with Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow, so there is hope that he can help transform Geno's game.

 

The rest of the 2014 depth chart has competition at every spot.  Shaq Evans ending up on IR could be a blessing in disguise, as it opens a spot for another receiver to stick on the 53-man roster.  Hill is a bust and while Nelson has good hands, his route-running might be an issue.  What the Jets do with their bottom 3 or 4 spots on the depth chart will be interesting, but clearly Decker and Kerley will be the top dogs in terms of targets.

 

EDGE:  2014

 

 

 

Tight End

 

 

2012 TE's: 1.  Dustin Keller   2.  Jeff Cumberland  3.  Konrad Reuland (FB)  4.  Hayden Smith

     * Josh Baker (IR)

 

2014 TE's:  1a/1b.  Jace Amaro/Jeff Cumberland  2.  Zach Sudfeld   3a/3b.  Colin Anderson/Chris Pantale

 

 

It would be easy to say that 2nd round pick Jace Amaro is better than Dustin Keller purely by potential, but for now, it's a "jury's still out" situation.  Certainly Keller was a disappointment in a long line of TE disappointments for the Jets.  He couldn't block and he lacked the toughness to go over the middle.  But he was big, fast, and had his moments.  Amaro caught everything thrown to him in college and if that translates it'll be a clear upgrade for the Jets.

 

Sudfeld's size/speed combo is intriguing, but he couldn't make a mark for the Patriots even when Gronkowski was hurt.  It'll be interesting to see how many appearances he makes when the Jets run 2-TE sets.

 

EDGE:  Inconclusive

 

 

 

Offensive Tackle

 

 

2012 OT's:  1.  D'Brickashaw Ferguson   2.  Austin Howard   3.  Jason Smith  

 

2014 OT's:  1.  D'Brickashaw Ferguson   2.  Breno Giacomini  3a/3b/3c/3d.  Ben Ijalana/Bruce Campbell/Markus Zusevics/Dakota Dozier (G)  4a/4b.  Brent Qvale/Patrick Ford (G)

 

Did the Jets actually IMPROVE at RT by replacing Austin Howard with Breno Giacomini?  It's difficult to say.  Howard was stout in the pass-blocking department but the Jets had major difficulties running his direction.  In Seattle, Breno was part of an OL that was ranked dead last in the NFL in pass-blocking, but Marshawn Lynch had a lot of success running his way.  The Jets severely needed a road grader on the right side ever since Damien Woody retired, so hopefully Breno can be that guy while not getting Geno killed.  He also needs to rid himself of the reputation for accumulating a lot of penalties.

 

Jason Smith, a former 2nd overall pick and bust for the Rams, perhaps was a swing tackle that could be trusted more than what the Jets currently have at the position, and with Dakota Dozier's role unknown at this time, it's easy to say that depth is a question mark.  Therefore, the 2012 unit gets the slight nod. 

 

(slight) EDGE:  2012

 

 

 

Guard

 

2012 OG's:  1.  Brandon Moore  2.  Matt Slauson   3.  Vlad Ducasse  4.  Caleb Schlauderaff ©

 

2014 OG's:  1.  Willie Colon  2.  Brian Winters  3.  Oday Aboushi  4a/4b/4c.  Caleb Schlauderaff ©/William Campbell/Dakota Dozier (T)  5.  Patrick Ford (T)

 

Brandon Moore retired following the 2012 season after spending his entire 10-year career with the Jets.  He was as solid as they come.  While his departure hurt, Matt Slauson's stings a bit more, as the Jets had the chance to retain his services.  Instead they opted for rookie Brian Winters in his LG spot and free agent Willie Colon in the departed Moore's RG slot.  Winters had a suspect rookie campaign, finished strong, but has looked shaky in preseason.  Colon is working out like a madman in the offseason but his inability to avoid costly penalties compared to the quiet but dependable Moore has its consequences.

 

The Jets are hoping that projects Aboushi and William Campbell work out but it's certainly a "believe it when we see it" situation with the 2 commodities.  The Jets had been down this path before with 2nd round "project" Vlad Ducasse ending up a massive bust.  Fortunately, Aboushi and Campbell didn't cost high draft choices.

 

Overall, G probably isn't as bad as it seems, but with so many question marks compared to the 2012 unit, it's impossible to give it the edge at this time.

 

EDGE:  2012

 

 

 

Center

 

2012 C's:  1.  Nick Mangold  2.  Caleb Schaluderaff (G)

 

2014 C's:  1.  Nick Mangold  2a/2b:  Caleb Schaluderaff (G)/Dalton Freeman

 

While there has been much talk about the decline of Nick Mangold, it's hard to tell if he really is losing his effectiveness or if he's been impacted by weak G play from Ducasse and Winters in 2013.  For now we'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

EDGE:  Even

 

 

 

3-4 Defensive End

 

 

2012 DE's:  1.  Muhammad Wilkerson  2.  Quinton Coples  3.  Mike DeVito

 

2014 DE's:  1.  Muhammad Wilkerson  2.  Sheldon Richardson  3.  Leger Douzable   4a/4b/4c.  Tevita Finau/TJ Barnes/Anthony Grady  5a/5b.  Kerry Hyder/Zach Thompson

 

The Jets added the 2013 Defensive Rookie of the Year to an already strong unit.  There isn't much more to say.

 

EDGE:  2014

 

 

 

Nose Tackle

 

2012 NT:  1.  Sione Pouha  2.  Kenrick Ellis  3.  Damon Harrison

 

2014 NT:  1.  Damon Harrison  2.  Kenrick Ellis

 

The Jets lost Pouha to free agency following 2012 and Damon "Big Snacks" Harrison was named the 2013 starter.  And oh what an upgrade he was.  However, since he was signed by Tannenbaum as a UDFA before the 2012 campaign, The NT spot ends up a wash.

 

EDGE:  Even

 

 

 

3-4 Defensive End/OutsideLinebacker

 

 

2012 DE/OLB's:  Calvin Pace  2.  Bryan Thomas  3.  Garrett McIntyre  4.  Ricky Sapp

 

2014 DE/OLB's:  1.  Calvin Pace  2.  Quinton Coples  3a/3b.  Jason Babin/Garret McIntrye  4a/4b.  IK Enemkpali/Troy Davis  5.  Trevor Reilly

   * Antwan Barnes (PUP List)

 

The dearth of options at the pass-rushing DE/OLB slots in 2014 are intriguing.  Pace remains on board despite being long in the tooth because he is still capable of winning battles at the point of attack, but it's easy to imagine him being supplanted from a starting spot.  Quinton Coples (10 career sacks) and IK Enemkpali have high ceilings and late free agent acquisition Jason Babin has been there before.  And no one should forget about Antwan Barnes, who when healthy was arguably the best in the group at applying pressure to the QB.

 

However it shakes out the unit will be better than in 2012.  Bryan Thomas, while solid even late in his career, simply could not do what several of these players are capable of doing.  The unit is faster and more athletic than its ever been in the Rex Ryan era.  It'll be up to him to figure it all out.

 

EDGE:  2014

 

 

 

Inside Linebacker

 

2012 ILB's:  1.  David Harris  2.  Bart Scott  3.  Demario Davis  4.  Nick Bellore

       * Josh Mauga (IR)

 

2014 ILB's:  1.  Demario Davis  2.  David Harris  3a/3b:  AJ Edds/Nick Bellore  4a/4b.  Jeremiah George/Steele Divitto

 

Demario Davis, not Harris, has ascended to the role of leader on defense.  Strong against the run but a liability in coverage, Harris's contract expires after 2014 and the Jets will perhaps look to upgrade the position this offseason with a more athletic ILB.  For now, unless AJ Edds becomes an overnight sensation, Harris's starting job is well secured this season.  And much like NT, since Davis was a Tannenbaum pick, ILB is another wash.

 

EDGE:  Even

 

 

 

Cornerback

 

 

2012 CB's:  1.  Antonio Cromartie  2.  Kyle Wilson  3.  Darrin Walls  4.  Ellis Lankster  5.  Donnie Fletcher

       * Darelle Revis (IR), Aaron Berry (IR), Isaiah Trufant (IR)

 

2014 CB's:  1.  Dee Milliner  2.  Dimitri Patterson  3.  Kyle Wilson  4a/4b.  Darrin Walls/Ellis Lankster  5.  Ras-I Dowling  6.  Johnny Patrick  7a/7b/7c.  Brandon Dixon/Jeremy Reeves/LeQuan Lewis   8.  Antonio Allen - experimental CB (S)

       * Dexter McDougle (IR),

 

Much like the 2012 campaign, it seems the 2014 Jets have been snake-bitten with injuries.  Darrelle Revis tore his ACL in '12, and promising rookie Dexter McDougle tore his this offseason.  Idzik has been oft-criticized for failing to bring in a quality free agent corner to start opposite the rookie Milliner, instead opting for a 1-year, $3M stopgap in Dimitri Patterson and otherwise building via the draft. 

 

Whether or not this was the correct approach to the position, the topic has been discussed ad nauseum.  Factors such as Antonio Cromartie's precipitous decline in 2013 aren't relevant to the discussion here, other than the fact that he is not on the 2014 roster.  The 2012 unit, even if an injured Revis is factored out, was stronger until proven otherwise. 

 

EDGE:  2012

 

 

 

Safety

 

 

2012 Safeties:  1.  LaRon Landry  2.  Yeremiah Bell  3.  Eric Smith  4.  Antonio Allen  5.  Josh Bush

 

2014 Safeties:  1a1b/1c.  Calvin Pryor/Dawan Landry/Antonio Allen (CB?)  2a/2b.  Jaiquawn Jarrett/Josh Bush  3.  Rontez Miles

 

LaRon Landry, a thumper, was signed to a 4-year, $24M deal with the Colts, and the Jets were clearly missing an impact safety from the roster.  They may have found one in Calvin Pryor out of Louisville.  He perhaps fits the mold of the new NFL better, where ball-hawking safeties are valued higher than big hitters.  Early returns are good, but that's just it.....its early. 

 

Assuming Pryor is an immediate starter, and with Antonio Allen being used experimentally at corner, the other safety spot could be up in the air.  Allen, with a pick-6 of Tom Brady under his belt in 2013, is certainly the better option at SS than Dawan Landry.  It's hard to imagine the Jets would weaken one position simply to stop the bleeding at CB.  In any case, Allen was a Tannenbaum find, so ultimately the question is are the Jets better off with Pryor and co. than Landry and co.?  Eventually I believe the answer will be yes, but for now it is an unknown.

 

EDGE:  Inconclusive

 

 

 

Special Teams

 

 

2012 ST's:  K Nick Folk, P Robert Malone, KR Joe McKnight, PR Jeremy Kerley, LS Tanner Purdum

 

2014 ST's:  K Nick Folk, P Ryan Quigley, KR Clyde Gates/Jalen Saunders, PR Jeremy Kerley, LS Tanner Purdum

 

There hasn't been much change to this unit.  KR has largely become irrelevant in today's NFL so the Gates/Saunders battle is only intriguing in that a Saunders victory could mean Clyde Gates being cut. 

 

EDGE:  Even

 

 

 

Summary

 

So there you have it.  The Jets have improved at QB, RB, WR and the Front 7.  They appear to have improved the talent level at TE and S by virtue of their top draft picks, though it is far too early to tell.  They've maintained a steady level of talent at C, NT, ILB and on Special Teams.  T, G, and CB are the spots where they have gotten weaker, though the deficiencies they've suffered may be overstated.

 

In just two offseasons, the Jets are looking a lot better than they did at the conclusion of 2012 in terms of talent.  They improved from 6-10 to 8-8 in 2013 to display a tangible improvement.  It remains to be seen if Rex Ryan can bring it all together, which will above all else require a step up in play from Geno Smith.  The improved talent around him on offense certainly limits his excuses should he fail to so.  Failure would also likely result in a new Head Coach/QB combo being brought in.  But given what Idzik has accomplished thus far, his job should be viewed as being quite safe.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Nice post and all...but it would be nearly impossible for the roster not be improved from 2012- which you could make the argument was the worst offense the NFL saw this decade.

 

Yes, the offense was easy to improve, but actually DOING it and making it look respectable in a 2-year period is not easy.  Replacing Shonn Greene and Joe McKnight with Ivory and Chris Johnson is a VAST improvement.  We didn't have a true WR1 before Decker.  People have their opinions on Geno but he was the top-rated QB in the draft and Idzik had the stones to take him when everyone was clamoring for a WR at the time in round 2.

 

And if it was JUST the offense he made improvements to you'd have a point.  While the secondary is patchwork right now he clearly made improvements to the front 7. 

 

None of the moves he made were obvious choices at the time, but they've worked out better than we'd have hoped overall.  After a 6-10 campaign and getting rid of Revis, nearly everyone thought we were headed for somewhere between 2-14 and 4-12.  But that didn't happen.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

they may be "improved" but nowhere near good enough to compete for a title.

 

No one would argue otherwise.  But the minute a QB emerges this team is 100 % a contender with the roster at hand.  You couldn't say that after 2012.  We had far too many holes along with QB to make any such claim.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Most of these say "even". Most of them should say "inconclusive".

 

Good call, I was searching for the right word to use there.  I'll make that change for TE and Safety.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Aaron Rodgers isn't making this roster a contender.

 

I disagree. 

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Interesting. I think you're giving a little too much "even" grade to the same player 2 years apart.

 

I was more or less giving Tannenbaum the benefit of the doubt in those situations (perhaps undeservedly).  The GM doesn't really get credit for player development, just player acquisition.  Tannenbaum "found" Big Snacks and Antonio Allen, so credit can't really go to Idzik for those players.  Nor should Idzik get blamed if a player under contract between 2012 and now declined unless he had a clear opportunity to part ways.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

I'd like to hear specific examples where Idzik has gone wrong given the information at hand when he made the decisions.  Should he have outbid the Raiders for Austin Howard?  Was investing a top 10 pick in Milliner the right call?  Was there not enough of an emphasis on offensive line with our Day 1/2 picks in the last 2 drafts?  Should we have gone after a G like Asamoah in free agency?

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

This is like saying you have to give The Karate Kid Part II a lot of credit because at least it's not The Karate Kid Part III.

 

No, this is like saying it takes a really good GM to make something out of nothing.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Really good job on this article.

 

Its obvious that Idzik has got this team better with more depth in just two off seasons. I may not agree with all draft picks he has made but there is a definitive plan to keep making this team better and provide more depth without landing into salary cap issues.

 

Yeah that's the thing I like about Idzik.  With Tannenbaum so many of his failures had to do with moves he should NOT have made but did anyways.  With Idzik the criticism seems to be that he's not taking ENOUGH risks.  I think he's taking calculated risks in the draft, which has historically been the best way to build a roster.  Taking Geno in the 2nd round and rolling with him in Year 2 was risky.  Burning a top 10 pick on Milliner and the 13th pick on Richardson despite, at the time, being in good shape at CB and DE were risky choices a lot of people here didn't like. 

 

He's not trading up like a madman, trading tons of picks for veterans, or signing other teams' UFA's.  This is all a major departure from Tannenbaum, who left our roster in such bad shape following 2012 primarily because he did all of those things.

 

And, of course, he's not signing players to cap-crippling deals. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Get out of here with this stupidity. He could've built a good, competitive team. A good team would make everyone happy. This isn't a good team. 

 

How.  Tell us.  You can't call someone out for stupidity without even a hint of a suggestion of how he should have been building this good, competitive team.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

By signing better players, trading for better players and drafting better players with the resources he had available to him. I'm not the GM, he is. 

 

Which better players.  You're not the GM but this is a message board.  You're allowed to come up with hypotheticals.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

By signing better players, trading for better players and drafting better players with the resources he had available to him. I'm not the GM, he is. 

 

Let's start with the 2013 draft.  Which players should we have drafted instead of Dee Milliner and Sheldon Richardson?  Here's a list of available players:

 

G Chance Warmack

OT D.J. Fluker

CB D.J. Hayden

DT Star Lotulelei

S Kenny Vaccaro

QB EJ Manuel

LB Jarvis Jones

S Eric Reid

OT Justin Pugh

TE Tyler Eifert

CB Desmond Trufant

DT Sharrif Floyd

DE Bjorn Werner

CB Xavier Rhodes

DE Datone Jones

WR DeAndre Hopkins

DT Sylvester Williams

WR Cordarrelle Patterson

LB Alec Ogletree

C Travis Frederick

WR Justin Hunter

RB Giovani Bernard

TE Zach Ertz

S Matt Elam

S Jonathan Cyprien

LB Manti Teo

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

He basically could've drafted ANY WR's that would've been better than the two duds he punted 3rd round picks on. Could've signed the best CB in the NFL. It goes on and on. I just want to know when certain posters here will hold him accountable for the roster being terrible. 2017? 18? How many years does this team need to SUCK before people get tried of the rose color glasses to hide incompetence?

 

The issue here is twofold:  1.  You're already making judgments on the 2014 draft class before they've played a single regular season snap, 2.  Assuming the roster is terrible when it's clearly not (I just showed you how that is not true).

 

So you would have drafted different receivers this April and signed Revis.  Cool.  That's a start.  Anything else you would have done?

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

It's impossible to say because the fact that his FA and Draft classes were terrible outside of Richardson in 2013 was the baseline for his 2014 failures. 

 

So even though you say Idzik's draft classes were "terrible" its "impossible" for you to do better, with hindsight on your side.  Because that makes sense.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Man with the Golden Gun was way better.

 

I've been waiting for you to show up.  Was my OP long enough?

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Clearly, you haven't been spending as much time on the forums lately.

 

I've been forced to defend Idzik, who has brought in not one but TWO ECU products since his arrival.  Shoot me now.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

You did me proud.  I read every damn word of it on general principle.  Although I still can't believe you haven't gotten a single TL;DR.

 

People here are so polite.  It's really refreshing.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Idzik is doing a great job of building depth and closing the gap between the Jets starters and backups.    Right now the Jets have the best 2's in the NFL.....wonderful.   

 

Where is the top end talent?    Is Amaro going to be the next Graham or Gronkowski?   is milliner the next Peterson?  

 

Right now Idzik has built a great JV team.   Let me know when we have the best Varsity squad b/c right now this team is an afterthought in the discussion of superbowl contenders.  

 

Idzik has been doing everything in his power to bring in potential stars.  It's not exactly easy to do.  Richardson and Decker look like true "varsity" guys.  Pryor and Milliner (yes, there's still time for him) could end up in that category.  Wilkerson was here already.  It's entirely too early to be demanding stars all over the field.  If Idzik is doing well at the grunt work stuff while nailing his early draft picks, we could build something special here.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

and how many of the 12 draft picks are going to be on the opening day roster?     Idzik the patient didn't make a single move during the draft using all 12 picks.    how many of those 12 will be active week 1?  

 

Well don't forget that a lot of those picks couldn't be packaged to move up because they were compensatory picks.  You know, the picks at the end of rounds that Tannenbaum never valued.

 

It used to be that we complained about there not being enough competition on the roster.  Now we draft 12 players and suddenly the complaint is that we didn't trade up and now have too MANY players competing for spots.

 

Most will make the team.  Some will make the practice squad.  Maybe 1 or 2 get cut entirely.  I don't have the answer to that, as we still have 2 preseason games remaining.  I don't see an issue with this. 

 

The 49ers, who unlike us are loaded with talent, used 11 draft picks in the 2013 draft, and things turned out ok.  They drafted a safety 1st round (Reid) like us, got a TE in the 2nd round (Vance McDonald), grabbed a couple skill players in the middle rounds (Quinton Patton, Marcus Lattimore), a late round QB (BJ Daniels), etc etc.  A lot of those picks haven't worked out to this point, but they didn't see any issue with drafting "too many players."

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

2 it looks like. The draft was just an utter disaster and will haunt this franchise for years, even if Pryor is a great player. 

 

2/12 guys make the Week 1 roster "it looks like" in your expert opinion.  Great prediction!

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

it's ok to agree with the strategy and disagree on the tactics.   Yes the Jets needed to rebuild, I'm just not a believer in the high volume low ceiling approach - it actually reminds me a lot of Mangini.  

 

The jets could have signed any number of CB's this off-season and chose not to.   they could have had revis but chose not to b/c of personal issues.   ok, no problem just don't trot old dimitri patterson out there and tell me he's the best you could do.  

 

I see Evans, Enunwa, and Sanders.  Personally I would have preferred Jordan Mathews.   I see yet another 1st rd DB and yet the secondary is the weakest part of the team.   

 

Let's let this season play out and have the same discussion.   it's easy to nitpick right now since there really isn't much else going on.   

 

I don't think Idzik himself would say Dimitri Patterson is the "Best he could do".  He was signed to a 1-year $3M deal.  He's the cheap option.  Of course he wasn't the best out there.  The problem you're having is recognizing that that is not a terrible decision when your goal is be a perennial contender.  If you don't like the players on the market, you don't hand an expensive 5-year deal to one just to do it. 

 

Every team uses stopgaps and this was a clear example of one.  Contrary to popular opinion, Idzik isn't simply mailing in the 2014 season by signing a stopgap CB.  He does want to win now.  But not at the expense of the future.  Last year was about clearing bad contracts and starting fresh.  This year is about development.  It's a process.  Enjoy it.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

49ers are a very poor example as they have one of the most talented teams in the NFL.   The Jets are using a similar model to the 49ers and Seahawk with the "redshirt" year for their late rd picks.   Basically the 2014 draft is to play in 2015.   

 

So you're saying its a bad move for Idzik to follow a model thay promotes long-term success, I.E. the model that helped win his former team a Super Bowl?

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

La la la lets ignore than all the reports out of camp about every rookie other than Pryor have been terrible! They are going to magically become good players once the season starts. 

 

No rookies ever develop over time.  Ever.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Does it bother you at all that there has not been one positive report about one rookie out of TC other than Pryor? Or we just ignore that?

 

It would bother me more if it were August 2015 rather than August 2014.  Not to mention McDougle was getting glowing reviews before tearing his ACL.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

I watched 5 mins of the Giants first preseason game and I saw 2 rookies who looked better than any jet. Same goes for a bunch of teams. None of them are standing out at all and if that doesn't bother you you're fooling yourself. Especially since most of these pics were terrible reaches. The 3 WR's alone should be friable for whoever made those picks. 

 

http://nypost.com/2014/08/19/odell-beckham-hamstring-saga-at-near-farce-level/

 

Odell Beckham was their first round pick, # 12 overall.  Yet this article talks about how the Giants have "No clue" how he'll turn out.  Perhaps because they recognize these guys are mere months into their careers and it takes time to properly evaluate a young player. 

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

I'm not even talking about Beckham. He hasn't played yet. 

 

Exactly.  And the rest of these rookies you're talking about have had at most 2-3 quarters of experience TOTAL of NFL-level play.  Bit too early to be running around making judgments, but carry on.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

and where is the talent going to come from?    as the salary cap continues to increase (dramatically once the new TV $ hits) the trend will be less FA movement.  

 

with 12 picks heading into the April draft I expected a lot more than we got.   I don't think there was a poster on this board that considered heading into the regular season w/o adding a single wr to the rotation.    

 

We signed the best WR on the market.  And Idzik recognized that teams are built via the draft with some FA's sprinkled in.  Which is probably why he used all 12 of his draft picks and limited his FA spending.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

It's like watching the guy who didn't have an N64 at home wander into his own proximity mines again and again.

Is....is that me?

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

And then the 2-3 guys that still argue for Tannenbaum, that's the kid who kept trying to get his friends to come over to play Sega Dreamcast with him.

 

Video game analogies are fun.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Just throwing my 2 cents in but I think you need to lighten up a bit.

 

Biggest understatement I've read here in a long time.

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

I do deny the fact that they are moving in the right direction, that is the upsetting part. They don't have a "slew of talented young players" they have 3-4 of them which is not enough and they have shown that they either aren't willing or competent enough to property use the cap space that they do have. 

 

We're the 6th youngest team in the NFL.  And whether or not you agree they can turn into players, we have the following guys aged 25 or under who were either highly ranked and talented at their respective positions coming out of college OR have so far looked like pleasant surprises:

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

RB Bilal Powell (25)

WR Jeremy Kerley (25)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24) -- Yeah, even in his 3rd season he's 24.  Still time for this cat.

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23) -- Before his ACL tear he was getting rave reviews. 

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

SS Antonio Allen (25)

 

 

That's 14 promising players 25 or under, and I may have missed some that are currently buried on the depth chart and might emerge later.  You'll notice they're spread nicely across the roster, which is a very good sign.  You'll also notice that half of the names have been acquired in the past 2 offseasons. 

 

If Geno proves to not be "the guy" this season, we'll likely be going after another young QB in the draft to replace him.

 

I'm sure you can pick apart each and every one of them for one reason or the other.  But this is a lot closer to a "slew" than just 3-4.  You're flat out wrong there.

 

Then you bring up the cap stuff as if that ties in somehow.  The FA dollars are not intended to be used to build the core of a team.  The best teams in the NFL use their FA dollars sparingly, so I'd say that Idzik is following the "proper" model.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

3-4 who are standout NFL players and that includes Pryor. The rest are huge question marks. 

 

You didn't say "standouts".  You said "talented".  Rookies don't develop right away.  We have a nice slew of young talent.  That is undeniable.

 

Are you already including Pryor as a standout?  When he hasn't played a down yet?

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

It gets worse if you don't include him...

 

Indeed, if you write the other guys off it does get worse.  But I'm not willing to do that yet.  You know, because most of them are still developing.  Something young players do and stuff.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

Sure but there are guys on that list that we all know won't become standouts, there are some that have a chance, and 3 that already are if you don't count Pryor. Every team in the NFL has guys in their 20s who might be good. That really isn't saying anything.  

 

If you knock off guys who definitely won't be standouts, and instead will just be capable players in their respective roles, you still get this list of standouts (already standouts or potential standouts):

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24)

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23)

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

 

 

You cannot say at this time that Geno Smith, a 2nd-year QB, cannot possibly be a standout.  Harrison, Richardson and Wilkerson are already standouts, with Wilkerson a legit star.  Davis is the QB of the defense and if he's not a standout yet, he's getting close.  Coples is in the 2nd season of a positional change, though admittedly, the bust potential is highest with him.  Milliner was Defensive Rookie of the Month last December, is 22, and is still learning the position with the steepest learning curve.  The rest haven't played a down in the NFL yet.

 

11 standouts or potential standouts.  That's half of a starting lineup right there.  I'm even fine with you knocking Davis and Coples off the list.  Still a lot more than the "3-4" number you presented.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Jetsfan80

[Jetsfan80 119,386]

I thought I'd approach him gently, I didn't want to be accused of blindly insulting anyone

 

That happens at least 10 times a day here.