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Roster Building: Jets roster 2014 vs. 2012


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I like how you're just following me around the boards sh*tting up threads with insults and content-less posts. Is that what you find fun?

 

It's funny because you're accusing me of doing what you're doing. 

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This has been touched on in other topics but I think it's worthy of it's own thread.  As we head into the most important preseason game, let's go position-by-position and see if John Idzik actually ha

And then the 2-3 guys that still argue for Tannenbaum, that's the kid who kept trying to get his friends to come over to play Sega Dreamcast with him.

This is like saying you have to give The Karate Kid Part II a lot of credit because at least it's not The Karate Kid Part III.

It's like watching the guy who didn't have an N64 at home wander into his own proximity mines again and again.

And then the 2-3 guys that still argue for Tannenbaum, that's the kid who kept trying to get his friends to come over to play Sega Dreamcast with him.

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It wasn't judging results that kept him here, it was misjudging results.

Just throwing my 2 cents in but I think you need to lighten up a bit. I think most Jet fans are aware of the teams shortcomings. We were quite devoid of talent for the last few years, that much is obvious. We can't change the team or the way its decision makers think thus we are forced to live with reality. Okay so the Jets aren't the best team in the NFL. In fact we are arguably in the bottom third of the league (maybe not so arguably) but its hard to deny the fact that we are moving in a good direction. We have a slew of talented young players not to mention a ton of cap space. Its good to come to terms with reality but its a lot more fun to have a little bit of hope. Its not all doom and gloom, lighten up buddy. :)
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Just throwing my 2 cents in but I think you need to lighten up a bit. I think most Jet fans are aware of the teams shortcomings. We were quite devoid of talent for the last few years, that much is obvious. We can't change the team or the way its decision makers think thus we are forced to live with reality. Okay so the Jets aren't the best team in the NFL. In fact we are arguably in the bottom third of the league (maybe not so arguably) but its hard to deny the fact that we are moving in a good direction. We have a slew of talented young players not to mention a ton of cap space. Its good to come to terms with reality but its a lot more fun to have a little bit of hope. Its not all doom and gloom, lighten up buddy. :)

I do deny the fact that they are moving in the right direction, that is the upsetting part. They don't have a "slew of talented young players" they have 3-4 of them which is not enough and they have shown that they either aren't willing or competent enough to property use the cap space that they do have. 

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I do deny the fact that they are moving in the right direction, that is the upsetting part. They don't have a "slew of talented young players" they have 3-4 of them which is not enough and they have shown that they either aren't willing or competent enough to property use the cap space that they do have. 

 

We're the 6th youngest team in the NFL.  And whether or not you agree they can turn into players, we have the following guys aged 25 or under who were either highly ranked and talented at their respective positions coming out of college OR have so far looked like pleasant surprises:

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

RB Bilal Powell (25)

WR Jeremy Kerley (25)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24) -- Yeah, even in his 3rd season he's 24.  Still time for this cat.

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23) -- Before his ACL tear he was getting rave reviews. 

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

SS Antonio Allen (25)

 

 

That's 14 promising players 25 or under, and I may have missed some that are currently buried on the depth chart and might emerge later.  You'll notice they're spread nicely across the roster, which is a very good sign.  You'll also notice that half of the names have been acquired in the past 2 offseasons. 

 

If Geno proves to not be "the guy" this season, we'll likely be going after another young QB in the draft to replace him.

 

I'm sure you can pick apart each and every one of them for one reason or the other.  But this is a lot closer to a "slew" than just 3-4.  You're flat out wrong there.

 

Then you bring up the cap stuff as if that ties in somehow.  The FA dollars are not intended to be used to build the core of a team.  The best teams in the NFL use their FA dollars sparingly, so I'd say that Idzik is following the "proper" model.

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We're the 6th youngest team in the NFL.  And whether or not you agree they can turn into players, we have the following guys aged 25 or under who were either highly ranked and talented at their respective positions coming out of college OR have so far looked like pleasant surprises:

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

RB Bilal Powell (25)

WR Jeremy Kerley (25)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24) -- Yeah, even in his 3rd season he's 24.  Still time for this cat.

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23) -- Before his ACL tear he was getting rave reviews. 

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

SS Antonio Allen (25)

 

 

That's 14 promising players 25 or under, and I may have missed some that are currently buried on the depth chart and might emerge later.  You'll notice they're spread nicely across the roster, which is a very good sign.  You'll also notice that half of the names have been acquired in the past 2 offseasons. 

 

If Geno proves to not be "the guy" this season, we'll likely be going after another young QB in the draft to replace him.

 

I'm sure you can pick apart each and every one of them for one reason or the other.  But this is a lot closer to a "slew" than just 3-4.  You're flat out wrong there.

 

Then you bring up the cap stuff as if that ties in somehow.  The FA dollars are not intended to be used to build the core of a team.  The best teams in the NFL use their FA dollars sparingly, so I'd say that Idzik is following the "proper" model.

3-4 who are standout NFL players and that includes Pryor. The rest are huge question marks. 

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3-4 who are standout NFL players and that includes Pryor. The rest are huge question marks. 

 

You didn't say "standouts".  You said "talented".  Rookies don't develop right away.  We have a nice slew of young talent.  That is undeniable.

 

Are you already including Pryor as a standout?  When he hasn't played a down yet?

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You didn't say "standouts".  You said "talented".  Rookies don't develop right away.  We have a nice slew of young talent.  That is undeniable.

 

Are you already including Pryor as a standout?  When he hasn't played a down yet?

It gets worse if you don't include him...

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It gets worse if you don't include him...

 

Indeed, if you write the other guys off it does get worse.  But I'm not willing to do that yet.  You know, because most of them are still developing.  Something young players do and stuff.

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Indeed, if you write the other guys off it does get worse.  But I'm not willing to do that yet.  You know, because most of them are still developing.  Something young players do and stuff.

Sure but there are guys on that list that we all know won't become standouts, there are some that have a chance, and 3 that already are if you don't count Pryor. Every team in the NFL has guys in their 20s who might be good. That really isn't saying anything.  

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Sure but there are guys on that list that we all know won't become standouts, there are some that have a chance, and 3 that already are if you don't count Pryor. Every team in the NFL has guys in their 20s who might be good. That really isn't saying anything.  

 

If you knock off guys who definitely won't be standouts, and instead will just be capable players in their respective roles, you still get this list of standouts (already standouts or potential standouts):

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24)

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23)

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

 

 

You cannot say at this time that Geno Smith, a 2nd-year QB, cannot possibly be a standout.  Harrison, Richardson and Wilkerson are already standouts, with Wilkerson a legit star.  Davis is the QB of the defense and if he's not a standout yet, he's getting close.  Coples is in the 2nd season of a positional change, though admittedly, the bust potential is highest with him.  Milliner was Defensive Rookie of the Month last December, is 22, and is still learning the position with the steepest learning curve.  The rest haven't played a down in the NFL yet.

 

11 standouts or potential standouts.  That's half of a starting lineup right there.  I'm even fine with you knocking Davis and Coples off the list.  Still a lot more than the "3-4" number you presented.

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If you knock off guys who definitely won't be standouts, and instead will just be capable players in their respective roles, you still get this list of standouts (already standouts or potential standouts):

 

QB Geno Smith (23)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24)

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23)

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

 

 

You cannot say at this time that Geno Smith, a 2nd-year QB, cannot possibly be a standout.  Harrison, Richardson and Wilkerson are already standouts, with Wilkerson a legit star.  Davis is the QB of the defense and if he's not a standout yet, he's getting close.  Coples is in the 2nd season of a positional change, though admittedly, the bust potential is highest with him.  Milliner was Defensive Rookie of the Month last December, is 22, and is still learning the position with the steepest learning curve.  The rest haven't played a down in the NFL yet.

 

11 standouts or potential standouts.  That's half of a starting lineup right there.  I'm even fine with you knocking Davis and Coples off the list.  Still a lot more than the "3-4" number you presented.

 

I'd include Kerley (25) too...that makes 12.

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If you knock off guys who definitely won't be standouts, and instead will just be capable players in their respective roles, you still get this list of standouts (already standouts or potential standouts):

QB Geno Smith (23)

TE Jace Amaro (22)

NT Damon Harrison (25)

DE Sheldon Richardson (23)

DE Muhammad Wilkerson (24)

LB Demario Davis (25)

DE/LB IK Enemkpali (23)

DE/LB Quinton Coples (24)

CB Dee Milliner (22)

CB Dexter McDougle (23)

FS Calvin Pryor (22)

You cannot say at this time that Geno Smith, a 2nd-year QB, cannot possibly be a standout. Harrison, Richardson and Wilkerson are already standouts, with Wilkerson a legit star. Davis is the QB of the defense and if he's not a standout yet, he's getting close. Coples is in the 2nd season of a positional change, though admittedly, the bust potential is highest with him. Milliner was Defensive Rookie of the Month last December, is 22, and is still learning the position with the steepest learning curve. The rest haven't played a down in the NFL yet.

11 standouts or potential standouts. That's half of a starting lineup right there. I'm even fine with you knocking Davis and Coples off the list. Still a lot more than the "3-4" number you presented.

+1

All we need is for Geno to do well. This team is talented, with some decent QB play we will win a bunch of games.

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Geno turns into "the guy" and no one mentions our CB "problems" again.  Pretty much that simple.

 

You've been posting here how long?  No way you believe this.

 

To that point, I'd say Coples becoming the guy, will help us forget our CB problems.

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Geno being the guy still leaves us with sh*tty corners. You're not winning a Super Bowl if you can't cover.

 

The Giants corners are so sh*tty they signed Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie to a 5-year deal, yet they have 2 Super Bowl rings in the last 7 years.  We have a more than capable pass rush, and despite our secondary woes last season, we were still middle of the pack in PPG allowed (24.2), a significant portion of those points coming because of turnovers on offense (- 14 TO differential, 30th in the NFL). 

 

Geno turns into "the guy" and we score in the 20's consistently, and the secondary isn't an issue.  You don't need studs at every level of your defense.  But you do need at least average QB play to compete (with the exception of the 2009-10 Jets).

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To that point, I'd say Coples becoming the guy, will help us forget our CB problems.

 

That too.  We've clearly shifted our focus towards the pass rush, and this year is when we really need to see the dividends of that shift.

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The Giants corners are so sh*tty they signed Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie to a 5-year deal, yet they have 2 Super Bowl rings in the last 7 years. We have a more than capable pass rush, and despite our secondary woes last season, we were still middle of the pack in PPG allowed (24.2), a significant portion of those points coming because of turnovers on offense (- 14 TO differential, 30th in the NFL).

Geno turns into "the guy" and we score in the 20's consistently, and the secondary isn't an issue.

Geno AND Coples AND Milliner turning into Pro Bowl-caliber players makes this team a contender. Lonnnnnnng shot with each right now, though.

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The Giants corners are so sh*tty they signed Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie to a 5-year deal, yet they have 2 Super Bowl rings in the last 7 years.  We have a more than capable pass rush, and despite our secondary woes last season, we were still middle of the pack in PPG allowed (24.2), a significant portion of those points coming because of turnovers on offense (- 14 TO differential, 30th in the NFL). 

 

Geno turns into "the guy" and we score in the 20's consistently, and the secondary isn't an issue.

 

Exactly.  Watching that first SB when the Giants beat Brady, it really showed that  a consistent pass-rush can slow down any offense.  That's why I don't get pissed when the Jets keep drafting D-linemen.  Get guys who can get pressure and DB's only have to cover for a couple seconds.  Any NFL DB should be able to do that.  Now, does the Jets front-7 find a way to get consistent pressure without blitzing?  If not, they're in big trouble, and that's why I'm praying that Coples is going to become thet player they drafted him to be.

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Geno AND Coples AND Milliner turning into Pro Bowl-caliber players makes this team a contender. Lonnnnnnng shot with each right now, though.

 

I'd say you're 1/3 corrrect if you want to talk about Pro-Bowl players. Only Coples has to come close to that type of production.  Coples playing at a high level, which has has shown the ability to do at times, is the key here.  Geno just has to be good, not great.  Same goes for Milliner.  Coples being great means little time for oppsing QB's to throw, and Geno just has to NOT turn the damn thing over so many times and Milliner can just play like he did late last season and they'll be better than a lot of people expect.

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The Giants corners are so sh*tty they signed Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie to a 5-year deal, yet they have 2 Super Bowl rings in the last 7 years. We have a more than capable pass rush, and despite our secondary woes last season, we were still middle of the pack in PPG allowed (24.2), a significant portion of those points coming because of turnovers on offense (- 14 TO differential, 30th in the NFL).

Geno turns into "the guy" and we score in the 20's consistently, and the secondary isn't an issue. You don't need studs at every level of your defense. But you do need at least average QB play to compete (with the exception of the 2009-10 Jets).

Why do we keep drafting corners so early then?

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