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Hey, does anybody know whats going on with this JI/Scout thing?


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A bit of a side note but here is a life lesson for you.  DO NOT under any circumstances tell your wife that you didn't sign a Non Disclosure Agreement that would have led to an offer, when you are in

Well, those are two valuable pennies. You certainly know more about forum software than I ever will, but the part that resonates most with me is the integrated nature of scout.com across 300 sub-sites

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At scout I got a online concierge who types his posts in green ink to help me navigate.

Can your site do that?

 

Now but we have a 10 minute guarantee.  Your email with a password issue will be answered within 10 minutes. As will your first post on the board. :)

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Now but we have a 10 minute guarantee.  Your email with a password issue will be answered within 10 minutes. As will your first post on the board. :)

 

You made me feel like the Prodigal Son and a comped VIP National all at once, thank you. 

 

What time do you serve the hotcakes?

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You made me feel like the Prodigal Son and a comped VIP National all at once, thank you. 

 

What time do you serve the hotcakes?

 

Here at JetNation, everyone is a VIP. 

 

In the moderator lounge we have a waffle bar, but be ready to pay the troll toll to get in there. 

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You made me feel like the Prodigal Son and a comped VIP National all at once, thank you. 

 

What time do you serve the hotcakes?

 

Hotcakes are served round the clock here. We wouldn't think of not serving hotcakes. :)

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It's good to see you! I was over there earlier, looking at some of my old threads. That hampur crew needs to find their way over... 

 

 

 

The hamper is simply one of the best things about JI.  There are a solid 10-12 posters there that keep that train running.  It's good to see you too, man.

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I still think it's ironic that so many people kissed up to Sooth over there for so long like he's better than they are. Then after treating so many of them so badly in the few posts he actually made there, he then sells all of their email addresses, behind their backs, to some corporation and tells them about it after it's over.

So the loyalties of all those posters were rewarded with getting put onto spam email lists and a vastly inferior posting experience.

 

Just hilarious.

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at JI? not too bad, mostly jokes, some are worried...Sooth says the boards will look the same or similar when all gets sorted out, so I'm hoping that's the case. Who knows some new blood is a good thing I think, as well as some old blood if anyone is so inclined. lol

 

Not recruiting Max, I promise, you've built a terrific spot here, I think it's safe to say the past is the past along those lines.

 

I'd echo jw on this.  The world has enough room for Coke and Pepsi.....but the jury is out on Sooth's "New Coke" for now.  I think it will take about a month before there's a good sense of whether normal attrition takes place during the move (like losing 10-20% of posters) or if there's another mass exodus of some sort.  The biggest problem is the scout.com platform at this point.  It smells like an MS-DOS prompt and the preferred connection method is a 28.8 modem.

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I'd echo jw on this.  The world has enough room for Coke and Pepsi.....but the jury is out on Sooth's "New Coke" for now.  I think it will take about a month before there's a good sense of whether normal attrition takes place during the move (like losing 10-20% of posters) or if there's another mass exodus of some sort.  The biggest problem is the scout.com platform at this point.  It smells like an MS-DOS prompt and the preferred connection method is a 28.8 modem.

 

I have spent an insane amount of my life thinking about forums. Way more than any normal person would ever do.  VBulletin 3 was the best, by far, forum platform ever known to man. I don' think we will ever see forum software that has a bigger impact.  Vbulletin sold the company and they totally botched vBulletin 4 and 5.  They don't currently have a viable product.

 

Xenforo was started by a bunch of ex Vbulletin people. By all accounts it is a great product but it is several years now and they still don't have an announcement about V2. Their first release is good but it is still lacking a lot of functionality.

 

IPB is what we use here. This version 3 is good and stable but they have been working on V4 forever. It was supposed to be out last year and it is basically just reaching beta now.

 

My point?  These are forum companies. That is all they do and they have teams of developers working on these products full time. It still takes them years.

 

I read someone say that Scout is putting "10's of millions of dollars into improving their forum software". That is just not true, Scout sold for 51 million. You don't then put half of that amount into one piece of software.  When I met with their head of NY technology I was impressed with his knowledge. But I walked away with the impression that improving the forums weren't at the top of their list.

 

Why did I get that impression?

Because that is what they told me.  If it isn't tied directly to bringing in new revenue, it is going to be hard to justify. They know they have to improve the forums. But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to reinvent the wheel. Because forum companies that do just that are taking years to put out new releases.

 

My two cents . :)

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I have spent an insane amount of my life thinking about forums. Way more than any normal person would ever do.  VBulletin 3 was the best, by far, forum platform ever known to man. I don' think we will ever see forum software that has a bigger impact.  Vbulletin sold the company and they totally botched vBulletin 4 and 5.  They don't currently have a viable product.

 

Xenforo was started by a bunch of ex Vbulletin people. By all accounts it is a great product but it is several years now and they still don't have an announcement about V2. Their first release is good but it is still lacking a lot of functionality.

 

IPB is what we use here. This version 3 is good and stable but they have been working on V4 forever. It was supposed to be out last year and it is basically just reaching beta now.

 

My point?  These are forum companies. That is all they do and they have teams of developers working on these products full time. It still takes them years.

 

I read someone say that Scout is putting "10's of millions of dollars into improving their forum software". That is just not true, Scout sold for 51 million. You don't then put half of that amount into one piece of software.  When I met with their head of NY technology I was impressed with his knowledge. But I walked away with the impression that improving the forums weren't at the top of their list.

 

Why did I get that impression?

Because that is what they told me.  If it isn't tied directly to bringing in new revenue, it is going to be hard to justify. They know they have to improve the forums. But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to reinvent the wheel. Because forum companies that do just that are taking years to put out new releases.

 

My two cents . :)

 

Here is the thing, guys like Max and Sean started these sites out of a genuine passion for their team and their desire to share that passion with like minded fanatics in an atmosphere they wanted to be in. I would bet dollars to donuts (calm down Max) that money was never a real issue or driver behind this, because generally running forums is a resource hog and not a great revenue generator. You can't overestimate the value of that dedication, witnessed by the success of two of the best boards and communities in NFL fan boards.

 

The issue is, companies like scout are not interested in passion projects. It is a dollar and cents driven entity. Sure they get some revenue from ads served up on the board, but between the lower payouts on those ads and the bigger split they have to do with the publisher and third party salesteam, there isn't much meat on the bone. Just think, what is the ROI on investing in the forum software? The increase in posting traffic would have to be a huge order of magnitude to justify spending even 1 million on the forum software, let alone "millions."

 

Some of the JI posters are (rightfully) upset about having to change their user name after years just to keep posting at the same place. Some of them are seeing that the people with their names are hardly posting if at all. BUT what they aren't seeing is that some of those people are paying subscribers for the content. I think this actually got mentioned. The money is coming from the content, and the video content that all these publishers are required to create. That is why scout is requiring at least 1 video a day. The ad rates for video is WAYYYYYY more than any bull$hit ad that could be put up on a forum.

 

The only way I could see them putting any type of money into forum software is if they do it as some kind of loss leader to retain members, but I can't see it being very much money, and I can't see it being in the top 5 major projects they have to tend to with this big push they are trying to make.

 

Also, there are beta forums up already. Maybe I am wrong, but generally you go into beta and open to public testing once the software is mostly where you want it to be and you are bug testing. I can't imagine they are in beta but have some feature rich version directly behind that. Apple and MSFT don't work that way, I doubt these guys are that organized.

 

Of course, I can be totally wrong. Anyone outside of that boardroom that is making the decisions and holding the purse strings could be as well though.

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Well, those are two valuable pennies. You certainly know more about forum software than I ever will, but the part that resonates most with me is the integrated nature of scout.com across 300 sub-sites.  I don't care how valuable or important anyone thinks JI is, I doubt the acquisition of that one site will force the rebuild of a 300 site platform from the ground up.  I'm sure the new owners who bought from Fox do have a vision and plans to improve the platform, features, etc. but I just can't see it happening in a matter of a few short months.  And the window isn't that big to retain members and prevent fragmentation of a user community that's turned off by a step backwards in technology.  You have to have a seaworthy lifeboat before you force people to abandon ship IMO.  It will be interesting to see how long they run the original JI and the scout version in parallel.  The day that the original JI locks down and converts entirely to an archive is the sink or swim day.

 

Also, to be clear, I've never had a problem with Sean, and I still don't.  It would be easy for me to come here, bash JI, and rip Sean in an environment that seems very supportive of doing just that.  I'm just not that kind of guy but I do know that others have very valid gripes with him.  I was here during the last significant turmoil around 2008, and was sad to see so many users split, but there was a gravitational pull to JI for me because of many users that I interacted with there, so I stayed and didn't really have the time or energy to keep up with two boards that discuss 70% of the same stuff.  It's fantastic to come back here and see so many old names.  The fact that many people I respect as Jets fans and posters continue to be active here says a lot about the site you're running.

 

My focus is on the user community, the conversation, and the ease of interaction.  It's that fragmentation of the user community and the lack of ease of interaction on the new scout board that have me concerned enough to come back here and give it a second look, and I'm glad I did.

Couldn't have said it better, my friend, so I won't try.

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Max= Moses

Sooth = Ramses

Too bad Jet Moses isn't here to pile on during this joyous occasion. Who knows maybe sooth will sign up and post again like he did on April fools day 2008. That was a lot of fun

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I still think it's ironic that so many people kissed up to Sooth over there for so long like he's better than they are. Then after treating so many of them so badly in the few posts he actually made there, he then sells all of their email addresses, behind their backs, to some corporation and tells them about it after it's over.

So the loyalties of all those posters were rewarded with getting put onto spam email lists and a vastly inferior posting experience.

 

Just hilarious.

There was no end game for me; I just enjoy posting. Yet, I'm a dog for sticking where I first landed...nice.

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There was no end game for me; I just enjoy posting. Yet, I'm a dog for sticking where I first landed...nice.

Of course I'm not referring to everyone; you're all individuals. But the few times I checked their forum out every year, if I did see him post it was usually with a snobbish dick tone to it, and most seemed afraid to say so to him (directly or indirectly). And they probably felt they had good reason: namely, they felt he'd have banned them, Jets fans with thousands of posts on his site or not. And it would have been foolish for these fans to risk that, since it was the community of others there that was the real attraction to most of you, rather than the guy who owned the website.

So I did see a number of others just say (IMO) a bunch of ass-kissy, "You & me's friends - right, Spike?" things to him, while he was badmouthing this or that Jets fan poster, or whole groups of Jets fans like those of us here. Many there wanted to get on his good side, like they looked up to him or something, and then in return for this loyalty he sold their email addresses to some marketing corporation.

So while the term "sellout" gets so overused, and it's so cliche that people don't think about the meaning much, this guy really did sell your personal information to some marketing corporation of strangers who want to bombard you with ads. And who knows who else the Scout.com guys are going to distribute your personal info to?

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Of course I'm not referring to everyone; you're all individuals. But the few times I checked their forum out every year, if I did see him post it was usually with a snobbish dick tone to it, and most seemed afraid to say so to him (directly or indirectly). And they probably felt they had good reason: namely, they felt he'd have banned them, Jets fans with thousands of posts on his site or not. And it would have been foolish for these fans to risk that, since it was the community of others there that was the real attraction to most of you, rather than the guy who owned the website.

So I did see a number of others just say (IMO) a bunch of ass-kissy, "You & me's friends - right, Spike?" things to him, while he was badmouthing this or that Jets fan poster, or whole groups of Jets fans like those of us here. Many there wanted to get on his good side, like they looked up to him or something, and then in return for this loyalty he sold their email addresses to some marketing corporation.

So while the term "sellout" gets so overused, and it's so cliche that people don't think about the meaning much, this guy really did sell your personal information to some marketing corporation of strangers who want to bombard you with ads. And who knows who else the Scout.com guys are going to distribute your personal info to?

 

Thank you for replying; I most always enjoy your posts; the cumar thing was genius. The Goddess is calling me away from this important business; beauty sleep or something.

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Thank you for replying; I most always enjoy your posts; the cumar thing was genius. The Goddess is calling me away from this important business; beauty sleep or something.

Thanks.

The whole thing just sounds pretty slimy to me. I'll bet you don't recall reading any privacy policy or terms & conditions on JI that said the website owner has been having ongoing discussions for some 10 years with a company that wants to buy the email list from him. Probably because I suspect that was kept secret from all of you when you typed in your personal info. And then he sold your email addresses and more (since some sign up with their real names & locations), as though you should have expected this was a potential part of the arrangement.

I don't fault him for meeting or speaking with them, as who could help but be curious? But I do fault him for not telling you guys (before transferring your information into their marketing database), that this was (or may be) in the works. At least it would have given so many of you a chance to change the information in your user accounts so some total strangers wouldn't have your real, personal info.

You didn't sign up there to have your personal info sold to some marketing company behind your backs. You signed up there to talk about your favorite NFL team with some others who felt the same way. And he used you all to get a press pass for himself, banning people purely for badmouthing the team and putting that at risk (as it's been told to me). So he got these special privileges for himself, which is great as a fan, and used you all to get it. Then he used you again to make a buck off your private, personal information. Basically he played you all for fools, mistakenly thinking your private info was safe with him, and none of you deserved that.

And IMO that is a fair assessment of what's happened there.

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