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NY Jets will have to live with mistake of not bringing Darrelle Revis back


Ken Schroy
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who cares if he held out?    Jets could have "rented" him for $13M and then parted ways.   Instead we'll have $21M of cap space starting at CB this weekend.  

 

My raging football boner says youre right but my limp brain says you are wrong.

 

I think Idzik has a plan in place. He's accumulating cap room and gearing up for 2015 and beyond. Was a stop gap rental CB putting us over the top this year? Probably not. So why spend (cough waste cough) the $13M you're proposing?

 

The Jets are in great financial shape moving forward and can be major players in 2015/2016 even after locking up all of their young talent. (wait.. that didn't come out right)

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My raging football boner says youre right but my limp brain says you are wrong.

 

I think Idzik has a plan in place. He's accumulating cap room and gearing up for 2015 and beyond. Was a stop gap rental CB putting us over the top this year? Probably not. So why spend (cough waste cough) the $13M you're proposing?

 

The Jets are in great financial shape moving forward and can be major players in 2015/2016 even after locking up all of their young talent. (wait.. that didn't come out right)

 

the cap is going to continue to increase over the next few years, especially when the new TV money kicks in.   with the added cap space the trend is for teams to re-sign there existing players.   do you really see Idzik going on a spending spree to overpay and pry players away from their teams?  

 

Idzik preaches building through the draft.   great strategy - only problem is that his draft picks stink.  

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the cap is going to continue to increase over the next few years, especially when the new TV money kicks in.   with the added cap space the trend is for teams to re-sign there existing players.   do you really see Idzik going on a spending spree to overpay and pry players away from their teams?  

 

Idzik preaches building through the draft.   great strategy - only problem is that his draft picks stink.  

 

Jets gave $$$ to the top WR FA on the market. Word on the street was he went after Vontae Davis- hard- before Davis decided to resign with Indy.

 

Until it's proven otherwise, I'll perhaps naively believe that Idzik values..get this.. value. I dont think he's against paying good talent good money.. I think he just avoids the lose-lose FA game of paying mediocre talent good money.

 

I'm hoping that he learns on the job that somethimes you need to be a little more flexible and offer a little more than planned to get a deal done... but i dont have a problem with him not giving the CBs in this FA market the money they ending up getting.

Edited by shuler82
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Jets gave $$$ to the top WR FA on the market. Word on the street was he went after Vontae Davis- hard- before Davis decided to resign with Indy.

 

Until it's proven otherwise, I'll perhaps naively believe that Idzik values..get this.. value. I dont think he's against paying good talent good money.. I think he just avoids the lose-lose FA game of paying mediocre talent good money.

 

I'm hoping that he learns on the job that somethimes you need to be a little more flexible and offer a little more than planned to get a deal done... but i dont have a problem with him not giving the CBs in this FA market the money they ending up getting.

 

that would be a much easier argument to make if Idzik didn't own the Patterson and Goodsen debacles.   Both overpaid, no value in either.   

 

Decker received a fair contract, he certainly isn't being underpaid.   5M for a backup QB is a lot of $$, although I'm not going to criticize that one.    Idzik is generally in over his head.  

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that would be a much easier argument to make if Idzik didn't own the Patterson and Goodsen debacles.   Both overpaid, no value in either.   

 

Decker received a fair contract, he certainly isn't being underpaid.   5M for a backup QB is a lot of $$, although I'm not going to criticize that one.    Idzik is generally in over his head.  

 

Lionel, you may end up being correct... but let me pretend this team might be on the right track again.. Even if it's misguided. give me that.

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the cap is going to continue to increase over the next few years, especially when the new TV money kicks in.   with the added cap space the trend is for teams to re-sign there existing players.   do you really see Idzik going on a spending spree to overpay and pry players away from their teams?  

 

Idzik preaches building through the draft.   great strategy - only problem is that his draft picks stink.  

In 2 years, he got us Sheldon, Decker,Dee, CJ, Ivory, Amaro, Pryor and most importantly (and hopefully) our long term QB. He has made his mistakes and isn't perfect, but I believe Idzik has a long term plan.

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In 2 years, he got us Sheldon, Decker,Dee, CJ, Ivory, Amaro, Pryor and most importantly (and hopefully) our long term QB. He has made his mistakes and isn't perfect, but I believe Idzik has a long term plan.

 

Richardson was a nice pick, especially b/c the team was loaded at DL.   The rest of the moves were pretty much chalk.   

 

Imagine how much better that list would look if we had a starting caliber CB and drafter an NFL ready WR.    these moves were no-brainers that everyone on this site was advocating.   I think Idzik has a plan but was too clever by half when it came to CB and then the draft.     there was no reason to use all 12 draft picks and there was no reason to bring DRC in for a visit and then not offer 3 yrs / 24M.  

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Richardson was a nice pick, especially b/c the team was loaded at DL.   The rest of the moves were pretty much chalk.   

 

Imagine how much better that list would look if we had a starting caliber CB and drafter an NFL ready WR.    these moves were no-brainers that everyone on this site was advocating.   I think Idzik has a plan but was too clever by half when it came to CB and then the draft.     there was no reason to use all 12 draft picks and there was no reason to bring DRC in for a visit and then not offer 3 yrs / 24M.  

Cant argue with that. I think with the addition of Decker, Jace and even CJ out of the backfield Geno will have enough options to survive this year while being thin at WR but it needs to be addressed next offseason..was also pissed when DRC left without a deal.

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My concern is as much, if not more, the guys Idzik did sign, as the guys he didn't. Two years in a row he has signed really bad character guys, and I'm not even including Winslow who was a knucklehead in his own right. The Jets paid Patterson a $1 million signing bonus and he practiced for a couple of weeks, got hurt, went AWOL and ripped the organization publicly, saying it lied about his no-show. And to add insult to injury Idzik refuses to own it and says that these things kinda just happen. Say what you want about Bradway, Tanny or any other GM since Joe Walton. None of them have ever had such a bad excuse as this.

Edited by RSJ
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My concern is as much, if not more, the guys Idzik did sign, as the guys he didn't. Two years in a row he has signed really bad character guys, and I'm not even including Winslow who was a knucklehead in his own right. The Jets paid Patterson a $1 million signing bonus and he practiced for a couple of weeks, got hurt, went AWOL and ripped the organization publicly, saying it lied about his no-show. And to add insult to injury Idzik refuses to own it and says that these things kinda just happen. Say what you want about Bradway, Tanny or any other GM since Joe Walton. None of them have ever had such a bad excuse as this.

 

Tannenbaum overpaid so many mediocre/troublesome players (Harris, Scott, Holmes, Sanchez) that it crippled us.  I'd much rather Idzik make the "mistake" of paying for cheaper players that don't work out than giving monster contracts to players who also don't work out.  You don't win championships by paying premium prices for other teams' players.  Idzik didn't like the CB's on the market, so he didn't overpay.  Quit beating the dead horse.

Edited by Jetsfan80
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Tannenbaum overpaid so many mediocre/troublesome players (Harris, Scott, Holmes, Sanchez) that it crippled us.  I'd much rather Idzik make the "mistake" of paying for cheaper players that don't work out than giving monster contracts to players who don't work out.  

 

What happens when he starts actually spending money? Is it going to be the same type of thing? Alsom atleast Tanny never came up with these kind of excuses when a mistake was made. 

Edited by RSJ
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who cares if he held out?    Jets could have "rented" him for $13M and then parted ways.   Instead we'll have $21M of cap space starting at CB this weekend.

That's well and good but has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. I wanted him here, would have tried to keep him, that's not even close to the discussion.

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Tannenbaum overpaid so many mediocre/troublesome players (Harris, Scott, Holmes, Sanchez) that it crippled us.  I'd much rather Idzik make the "mistake" of paying for cheaper players that don't work out than giving monster contracts to players who also don't work out.  You don't win championships by paying premium prices for other teams' players.  Idzik didn't like the CB's on the market, so he didn't overpay.  Quit beating the dead horse.

 

I'm sure the fact that he didn't "overpay" anyone will keep him all warm and fuzzy while this team posts a 6-10 record. Good for him.

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Tannenbaum overpaid so many mediocre/troublesome players (Harris, Scott, Holmes, Sanchez) that it crippled us. I'd much rather Idzik make the "mistake" of paying for cheaper players that don't work out than giving monster contracts to players who also don't work out. You don't win championships by paying premium prices for other teams' players. Idzik didn't like the CB's on the market, so he didn't overpay. Quit beating the dead horse.

This. At the very least with Idzik you have an exit strategy every single season. It took 3 years before we were able to recover from the slathering lagoon of llama jizz that Tannenbaum left us stranded in.

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I'm sure the fact that he didn't "overpay" anyone will keep him all warm and fuzzy while this team posts a 6-10 record. Good for him.

 

 

I think the proper way to think about it is to stop worrying about this year's record and start considering what the team looks like in 2015. That means focusing on guys like Geno, Milliner, Pryor, Amaro, Dozier, Antonio Allen, Demario Davis and Saunders. Throw in givens like Mo, Decker, Sheldon, and Harrison, but everyone else is a placeholder and largely irrelevant.

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Whether there was anything behind the story isn't the point. I said he held out twice and was on his way to a third out and was told I was rewriting history. Really? I didn't ask for reasons, could care less, wasn't criticizing him, it's his choice. How many times can someone write back starting with but.... Did you even bother to read what I wrote and you quoted?

Does anyone in this thread read or just argue for the sake of arguing.

so your point is the only one that counts? I did read what you had to say, and I agreed he held out twice. I only added my point to your original point. wasn't aware that I am not allowed to do that. sorry. the other posters point about "rewriting history" was valid. there is no evidence he was on the way to another holdout. he never said as such, and I seriously doubt coming off an acl tear and entering his last year in his contract, he was even considering it. just my opinion but you stating it as fact is indeed "rewriting history".

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1. I don't believe Revis ever wanted to come back, and I don't believe he would have for anything less than an over-market-value deal (14-16 mil/year, one year).

 

2. I don't believe Revis was ever as good as claimed, like many CB's, the mythmaking is half the reason they don't get tested (not because their guy isn't open).  Low hanging fruit like Wilson will always appeal to a QB more.

 

3. I don't believe Idzik made mistakes at CB, he did what he could, signed guys to fill in short-term, and drafted guys to develop long term.  That's what any good early-in-office GM does.  It isn't his fault Patterson turned out bad, and the rookie tore his ACL.  No team could survive that, image in Revis tore his ACL again in camp and Dennard got busted for coke or somesuch, how would the Pats DB's look today?

 

CB and the D-Backfield as a whole is clearly a weakness today.  But Revis was never an answer post-split, and Idzik should not be held responsible for rookie injuries or players going bad unexpectedly.

 

JMO.

Edited by Warfish
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1. I don't believe Revis ever wanted to come back, and I don't believe he would have for anything less than an over-market-value deal (14-16 mil/year, one year).

 

2. I don't believe Revis was ever as good as claimed, like many CB's, the mythmaking is half the reason they don't get tested (not because their guy isn't open).  Low hanging fruit like Wilson will always appeal to a QB more.

 

3. I don't believe Idzik made mistakes at CB, he did what he could, signed guys to fill in short-term, and drafted guys to develop long term.  That's what any good early-in-office GM does.  It isn't his fault Patterson turned out bad, and the rookie tore his ACL.  No team could survive that, image in Revis tore his ACL again in camp and Dennard got busted for coke or somesuch, how would the Pats DB's look today?

 

CB and the D-Backfield as a whole is clearly a weakness today.  But Revis was never an answer post-split, and Idzik should not be held responsible for rookie injuries or players going bad unexpectedly.

 

JMO.

1. we may never know the real truth to this queston

2. nonsense

3. it was evident that idzik and company knew they needed an upgrade at the corner position. trying to sign multiple "name" corners during free agency. he just failed to do so. be it idzik thought the value wasn't there/too expensive or idzik is too cheap/in over his head/underestimated the corner market,  take your pick,he just failed to bring in a free agent corner. period. this would also explain his "reach" for mcdougle. after failing to bring in a viable free agent cb, he had his "ace in the hole" with mcdougle. well, we know how that turned out. bottom line is the corner back position is a train wreck. there is only 1 man responsible for it. it is nobody else's fault for the lack of capable corners on the team except for john idzik. there really is no other way to spin it.

4. as far as injuries and players going bad "unexpectedly", mcdougle has missed a lot of games due to injury and Patterson is an injury prone, poor mans version of kyle Wilson. not exactly a "master plan".

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so your point is the only one that counts? I did read what you had to say, and I agreed he held out twice. I only added my point to your original point. wasn't aware that I am not allowed to do that. sorry. the other posters point about "rewriting history" was valid. there is no evidence he was on the way to another holdout. he never said as such, and I seriously doubt coming off an acl tear and entering his last year in his contract, he was even considering it. just my opinion but you stating it as fact is indeed "rewriting history".

Are you serious? You're so he'll bent on arguing that you're not using your head. I tell you that my point was that he held out twice and your answer is that my point is the only one that counts? Considering I brought up that he held out, yes, it's the one at counts. What are you talking about?

On get it, you made excuses why he held out. It was Tannys fault, and you're blindly going to tell us that he wasn't going to opt out of a deal he made sure had an pit out in it. Ok, good for you, everything Revis has been and is says he would NEVER have taken the opt out that he negotiated into his deal. I have a bridge to sell you

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1. we may never know the real truth to this queston

2. nonsense

3. it was evident that idzik and company knew they needed an upgrade at the corner position. trying to sign multiple "name" corners during free agency. he just failed to do so. be it idzik thought the value wasn't there/too expensive or idzik is too cheap/in over his head/underestimated the corner market,  take your pick,he just failed to bring in a free agent corner. period. this would also explain his "reach" for mcdougle. after failing to bring in a viable free agent cb, he had his "ace in the hole" with mcdougle. well, we know how that turned out. bottom line is the corner back position is a train wreck. there is only 1 man responsible for it. it is nobody else's fault for the lack of capable corners on the team except for john idzik. there really is no other way to spin it.

4. as far as injuries and players going bad "unexpectedly", mcdougle has missed a lot of games due to injury and Patterson is an injury prone, poor mans version of kyle Wilson. not exactly a "master plan".

McDougle was injured once. Patterson was injury prone obviously.

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1. we may never know the real truth to this queston

2. nonsense

3. it was evident that idzik and company knew they needed an upgrade at the corner position. trying to sign multiple "name" corners during free agency. he just failed to do so. be it idzik thought the value wasn't there/too expensive or idzik is too cheap/in over his head/underestimated the corner market,  take your pick,he just failed to bring in a free agent corner. period. this would also explain his "reach" for mcdougle. after failing to bring in a viable free agent cb, he had his "ace in the hole" with mcdougle. well, we know how that turned out. bottom line is the corner back position is a train wreck. there is only 1 man responsible for it. it is nobody else's fault for the lack of capable corners on the team except for john idzik. there really is no other way to spin it.

4. as far as injuries and players going bad "unexpectedly", mcdougle has missed a lot of games due to injury and Patterson is an injury prone, poor mans version of kyle Wilson. not exactly a "master plan".

 

1. Indeed, but I'm confident in my opinion, given the facts we do know.

2. He was never, ever, worth 16 million/year.  No CB is or ever has been.  IMO, of course.

3. Agree on the "position of weakness", it clearly is.

 

Agree to disagree on the effort to reload there.

 

The players Idzik Aquired this offseason at CB: 

 

Johnny Patrick, CB, Waved (San Diego), Signed by NY Jets.

Dimitri Patterson, CB, URFA (Miami), Signed by NY Jets.

Darrin Walls, CB, RFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Ellis Lankster, CB, URFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Jeremy Reeves, CB, UDFA, Iowa State (DNP 2013). 

3rd Round (#80): Dex Mcdougle, CB, Maryland

6th Round (#195): Brandon Dixon, CB, NW Missouri St

 

If Idzik is guilty, it may be more of conservativism (he ended with too much unspent cap space for a big move that never materialized).  But I'd also wager Rex has a very large say in who was acquired for his defense as well.  No big names, but at least ONE decent #2 starter should have materialized from this group.  The fact one didn't is very disappointing, aye, but I don not agree it constitutes a failure by Idzik to try and address the position in a year where the O was clearly the bigger priority and weakness, and the D was expected to be driven by the D-Line, thus allowing a somewhat weaked D-backfield to be "good enough" for now.

 

And again, I don't believe for a second that Revis was going to come back here for less than above market value, and he's not worth it for a team where our team is.  We are not one DB away from a Super Bowl Title.

 

4. Agree to Disagree, I think it was very reasonable to expect that one #2 CB would be found amongst that group, and disagree that Idzik alone bears that responsibility of belief, knowing Rex's history of belief in certain players. 

 

Idzik may prove he's unworthy, his job to-date does not yet show that IMO.  You cannot fix and entire talentless team in one offseason.  If we are this weak at DB next year, then I'll find more room for agreement here.

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McDougle was injured once. Patterson was injury prone obviously.

He fell off a swing set when he was 6 and scraped his knee so badly that, after dousing it with peroxide, his mom had to put a 3" square bandage over it. And now he's suffered an ACL injury to that same knee.

Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

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He fell off a swing set when he was 6 and scraped his knee so badly that, after dousing it with peroxide, his mom had to put a 3" square bandage over it. And now he's suffered an ACL injury to that same knee.Coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences.

The scary part is some would buy into this.

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1. I don't believe Revis ever wanted to come back, and I don't believe he would have for anything less than an over-market-value deal (14-16 mil/year, one year).

 

2. I don't believe Revis was ever as good as claimed, like many CB's, the mythmaking is half the reason they don't get tested (not because their guy isn't open).  Low hanging fruit like Wilson will always appeal to a QB more.

 

3. I don't believe Idzik made mistakes at CB, he did what he could, signed guys to fill in short-term, and drafted guys to develop long term.  That's what any good early-in-office GM does.  It isn't his fault Patterson turned out bad, and the rookie tore his ACL.  No team could survive that, image in Revis tore his ACL again in camp and Dennard got busted for coke or somesuch, how would the Pats DB's look today?

 

CB and the D-Backfield as a whole is clearly a weakness today.  But Revis was never an answer post-split, and Idzik should not be held responsible for rookie injuries or players going bad unexpectedly.

 

JMO.

 

Bold: Namdi Asomugha

 

Completely agree with you on this one. In the few games where I've been able to actually watch Revis, which includes pre-season wk 3 vs. Kelvin Benjamin, and a couple Tampa games and Red Zone, he was beaten. Kelvin really beat him bad in the pre-season, tbh, if Cam was more accurate, it'd could have been an embarrassement.

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1. Indeed, but I'm confident in my opinion, given the facts we do know.

2. He was never, ever, worth 16 million/year.  No CB is or ever has been.  IMO, of course.

3. Agree on the "position of weakness", it clearly is.

 

Agree to disagree on the effort to reload there.

 

The players Idzik Aquired this offseason at CB: 

 

Johnny Patrick, CB, Waved (San Diego), Signed by NY Jets.

Dimitri Patterson, CB, URFA (Miami), Signed by NY Jets.

Darrin Walls, CB, RFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Ellis Lankster, CB, URFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Jeremy Reeves, CB, UDFA, Iowa State (DNP 2013). 

3rd Round (#80): Dex Mcdougle, CB, Maryland

6th Round (#195): Brandon Dixon, CB, NW Missouri St

 

If Idzik is guilty, it may be more of conservativism (he ended with too much unspent cap space for a big move that never materialized).  But I'd also wager Rex has a very large say in who was acquired for his defense as well.  No big names, but at least ONE decent #2 starter should have materialized from this group.  The fact one didn't is very disappointing, aye, but I don not agree it constitutes a failure by Idzik to try and address the position in a year where the O was clearly the bigger priority and weakness, and the D was expected to be driven by the D-Line, thus allowing a somewhat weaked D-backfield to be "good enough" for now.

 

And again, I don't believe for a second that Revis was going to come back here for less than above market value, and he's not worth it for a team where our team is.  We are not one DB away from a Super Bowl Title.

 

4. Agree to Disagree, I think it was very reasonable to expect that one #2 CB would be found amongst that group, and disagree that Idzik alone bears that responsibility of belief, knowing Rex's history of belief in certain players. 

 

Idzik may prove he's unworthy, his job to-date does not yet show that IMO.  You cannot fix and entire talentless team in one offseason.  If we are this weak at DB next year, then I'll find more room for agreement here.

1.i am not as confident as you,but I am not sold that your opinion is valid

2. don't care about the money aspect, calling revis overrated is just a silly thought. best to play the position in a long time.maybe ever

3. I never said the effort to "re-load" the position wasn't there. I just said idzik failed to do so. if resigning a few guys, signing Patterson, and drafting mcdougle was his master plan, then he succeeded. it just wasn't his plan. idzik would love a re-do on free agency. at least at the corner position. I have been saying that all along. he underestimated the corner market and with his ultimate conservative attitude, got left holding the bag (to steal another posters quote)

4. the resources were there to upgrade the position. it wasn't like having to choice between upgrading the wide receiver position or the corner position, with limited resources he had to make a choice.both resources and players were available

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Are you serious? You're so he'll bent on arguing that you're not using your head. I tell you that my point was that he held out twice and your answer is that my point is the only one that counts? Considering I brought up that he held out, yes, it's the one at counts. What are you talking about?

On get it, you made excuses why he held out. It was Tannys fault, and you're blindly going to tell us that he wasn't going to opt out of a deal he made sure had an pit out in it. Ok, good for you, everything Revis has been and is says he would NEVER have taken the opt out that he negotiated into his deal. I have a bridge to sell you

I quit. you win. lesson learned

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Bold: Namdi Asomugha

 

Completely agree with you on this one. In the few games where I've been able to actually watch Revis, which includes pre-season wk 3 vs. Kelvin Benjamin, and a couple Tampa games and Red Zone, he was beaten. Kelvin really beat him bad in the pre-season, tbh, if Cam was more accurate, it'd could have been an embarrassement.

 

He also gave up the late, game-tying TD against Arizona. At $16M, or $1M/game, it is expected that he gives up zero of these. 

 

I still say he was faking the re-injury when Moss beat him deep with that 1-handed catch after the holdout.  He was perfectly fine until he saw the outcome (not just a TD, but a long TD; not just a long TD, but a "check this sh*t out" 1-handed grab that would be shown hundreds of times).  Of course, if he got beat without an injury, then it means he actually got beat. And he can't have that, so grab the hammy.

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