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NY Jets will have to live with mistake of not bringing Darrelle Revis back


Ken Schroy
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He also gave up the late, game-tying TD against Arizona. At $16M, or $1M/game, it is expected that he gives up zero of these. 

 

I still say he was faking the re-injury when Moss beat him deep with that 1-handed catch after the holdout.  He was perfectly fine until he saw the outcome (not just a TD, but a long TD; not just a long TD, but a "check this sh*t out" 1-handed grab that would be shown hundreds of times).  Of course, if he got beat without an injury, then it means he actually got beat. And he can't have that, so grab the hammy.

 

100% agreed.

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1. Indeed, but I'm confident in my opinion, given the facts we do know.

2. He was never, ever, worth 16 million/year.  No CB is or ever has been.  IMO, of course.

3. Agree on the "position of weakness", it clearly is.

 

Agree to disagree on the effort to reload there.

 

The players Idzik Aquired this offseason at CB: 

 

Johnny Patrick, CB, Waved (San Diego), Signed by NY Jets.

Dimitri Patterson, CB, URFA (Miami), Signed by NY Jets.

Darrin Walls, CB, RFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Ellis Lankster, CB, URFA, Resigned by NY Jets.

Jeremy Reeves, CB, UDFA, Iowa State (DNP 2013). 

3rd Round (#80): Dex Mcdougle, CB, Maryland

6th Round (#195): Brandon Dixon, CB, NW Missouri St

 

If Idzik is guilty, it may be more of conservativism (he ended with too much unspent cap space for a big move that never materialized).  But I'd also wager Rex has a very large say in who was acquired for his defense as well.  No big names, but at least ONE decent #2 starter should have materialized from this group.  The fact one didn't is very disappointing, aye, but I don not agree it constitutes a failure by Idzik to try and address the position in a year where the O was clearly the bigger priority and weakness, and the D was expected to be driven by the D-Line, thus allowing a somewhat weaked D-backfield to be "good enough" for now.

 

And again, I don't believe for a second that Revis was going to come back here for less than above market value, and he's not worth it for a team where our team is.  We are not one DB away from a Super Bowl Title.

 

4. Agree to Disagree, I think it was very reasonable to expect that one #2 CB would be found amongst that group, and disagree that Idzik alone bears that responsibility of belief, knowing Rex's history of belief in certain players. 

 

Idzik may prove he's unworthy, his job to-date does not yet show that IMO.  You cannot fix and entire talentless team in one offseason.  If we are this weak at DB next year, then I'll find more room for agreement here.

 

 Why would any of those guys be considered starters?  Yeah I could see depth, but expecting a 3rd round pick who many thought should have been taken in the 5th round, isn't a guy who you should expect to start.   Milliner was the 9th pick in the draft last year and sucked for most of the year.  Many CBs struggle for a few years.  But somehow a guy taken in the later rounds who missed his his last year in college due to injury is expected to come in and be the starter?   That makes no sense at all.   And it really makes less sense considering Milliner struggled so much last year.  No GM should assume McDougle would be some good CB from day one.  And he was injured all last year, so it should never haev been considered as an option.

 

Patterson missed 33 games in the last 3 seasons, started like 20 games out of 78 in his career, and has always been injured.  When a guy has played in 5 games a year for the last 3 years,  and he isn't even a starter,  no way anybody should assume this guy was going to start and be the #1 or 2 CB on the team.

 

  The rest of the guys are players you hope make the team, not players you expect to start.  Yeah sometimes you get lucky and there is a diamond in the rough, but when every single player on that list is supposed to be a diamond in the rough, that's just a bad job by the GM.   

It's one thing to say Milliner and Cromartie weren't very good last year, it's another to say  Patterson or Mcdouble should be starting.   

 

 I really don't know why anybody thought those guys were starters without the injury issues.   And Patterson being injured was a real shocker.  Not.  The guy missed 33 games in the last three years.  And he's never been healthy his entire career.  And he's never been a starter.  What avg person on the street would want that guy on their Madden team to start, much less the GM of an NFL Franchise?  That's the part that makes no sense.  You really hope the GM doesn't wing it and pray that the scrubs he brought in make it.

 

 Idzik made some decent moves so far, but the way he handled the CB situation was a disaster.   There is no way he could have thought Patterson and Mcdougle were the answer.  Because if he really thought they were the answer to all the Jets secondary issues,  the Jets are in serious trouble.

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on a serious note, I have not forgotten about you. I am just waiting for some of the season to unfold to talk about things other than fluff. and not looking forward to reading a 17 paragraph response from you. hurts my eyes :evilgrin0031:

 

Those long replies are my gift to the world. Or, more correctly, sharing my gift to the world.

 

 

 

 

BTW, when I was typing this, I initially made a typo, accidentally inserting a "t" in between the "r" and "i" in sharing. The post would likely have improved immensely if I'd just left it alone. But then I wouldn't get to type 3 more sentences if I did that.

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Those long replies are my gift to the world. Or, more correctly, sharing my gift to the world.

 

 

 

 

BTW, when I was typing this, I initially made a typo, accidentally inserting a "t" in between the "r" and "i" in sharing. The post would likely have improved immensely if I'd just left it alone. But then I wouldn't get to type 3 more sentences if I did that.

but if you left it alone, you could of gotten another paragraph or 2 in on the replies. you have to think about these things

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He also gave up the late, game-tying TD against Arizona. At $16M, or $1M/game, it is expected that he gives up zero of these. 

 

I still say he was faking the re-injury when Moss beat him deep with that 1-handed catch after the holdout.  He was perfectly fine until he saw the outcome (not just a TD, but a long TD; not just a long TD, but a "check this sh*t out" 1-handed grab that would be shown hundreds of times).  Of course, if he got beat without an injury, then it means he actually got beat. And he can't have that, so grab the hammy.

 

Yeah, agree with both you and Ape on all of this crap.  He certainly had a great season in 2009, but has never come close to replicating that performance and has been vastly overrated ever since then, and certainly not worth $16M.  It's been five years now, it's time to move on from this crap as, even at the very best, he's got nothing that separates him from the league's other top CBs.  Frankly, I lost absolutely all respect for him when he showed up in absolutely laughable sh*t shape after his 2010 hold-out, which led to such wonderful early season performances as the Pats game you mentioned and nearly single-handedly costing the Jets their game vs the Vikings.  I'll always give him tons of credit for that 2009 season, but he's only fallen further back into the pack as more time has gone by.

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2. don't care about the money aspect

Then you're not ready to have a serious discussion of the issue.

 

calling revis overrated is just a silly thought. best to play the position in a long time.maybe ever

Not even close to GOAT at CB.

 

3. I never said the effort to "re-load" the position wasn't there. I just said idzik failed to do so. if resigning a few guys, signing Patterson, and drafting mcdougle was his master plan, then he succeeded. it just wasn't his plan.

Hate to break it to you, that was the plan. Conservative mult-year rebuild without spendng the bank (or future) on a CB. If something good AND affordable appeared, he'd take it, otherwise he'd wait, build through the draft, and spot-fill with Vets, assuredly Vets Ryan signed off on and desired and felt he could "make good enough".

The determination of this being right or wrong won't be decided by 2014, a year in which the Jets have and had no shot to compete for a World Title anyway.

We all want to win it all today, that clearly is not how Idzik is building this roster.

So we'll see.

Edited by Warfish
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Then you're not ready to have a serious discussion of the issue.

 

Not even close to GOAT at CB.

 

 

Hate to break it to you, that was the plan. Conservative mult-year rebuild without spendng the bank (or future) on a CB. If something good AND affordable appeared, he'd take it, otherwise he'd wait, build through the draft, and spot-fill with Vets, assuredly Vets Ryan signed off on and desired and felt he could "make good enough".

The determination of this being right or wrong won't be decided by 2014, a year in which the Jets have and had no shot to compete for a World Title anyway.

We all want to win it all today, that clearly is not how Idzik is building this roster.

So we'll see.

really?? money has nothing to do with it. you said over-rated not over-paid

revis is definitely in the discussion of goat.end of story

no need to break anything to me. I know what happened.the biggest hole in your story is that idzik went after vontae davis pretty hard. colts just traded 2 2nd rounders for this guy, who just came off a pretty good season, and was also the top free agent corner. going after the top corner, top wide receiver, top running back, and top qb in free agency doesn't support your claim. idzik trried hard to put a "name" at the corner position, for whatever reason, he failed to do so. spending good money to fix a gaping hole on your team has nothing to do with winning it all this year.nothing

Edited by ylekram
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Have a hard time with the obsession with Revis. As good as Revis can be in man to man he still has to occupy one player making it a 10 on 10 game. The question is can our 10 out play theirs. That will be Marty's problem and I have faith he can do this with our running game and quick passes.

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Have a hard time with the obsession with Revis. As good as Revis can be in man to man he still has to occupy one player making it a 10 on 10 game. The question is can our 10 out play theirs. That will be Marty's problem and I have faith he can do this with our running game and quick passes.

 

Some people seem to think Revis has superpowers. 

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really?? money has nothing to do with it. you said over-rated not over-paid

revis is definitely in the discussion of goat.end of story

no need to break anything to me. I know what happened.the biggest hole in your story is that idzik went after vontae davis pretty hard. colts just traded 2 2nd rounders for this guy, who just came off a pretty good season, and was also the top free agent corner. going after the top corner, top wide receiver, top running back, and top qb in free agency doesn't support your claim. idzik trried hard to put a "name" at the corner position, for whatever reason, he failed to do so. spending good money to fix a gaping hole on your team has nothing to do with winning it all this year.nothing

 

Players, including how they're rated (especially by GM's), includes how much they make and how much of the cap they eat up.  Ffs, NFL 101?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Revis as GOAT, frankly he's not even the best DB in the NFL now, much less for a decade or more.  I think Darrell Green and Dion Sanders might argue with your claim of Revis as GOAT, rightfully so, and that's just to start.

 

As for the rest, I think the issue is your unrealistic expectations of an instant-pro-bowler fix at all positions on talent-starved roster.  Idzik addressed the position, while addressing many other more vital positions as well first (where he landed, as you say, the best WR and QB on the market to bolster our ailing O), and his choices failed and got hurt.  It happens.  It Decker and Geno both tear their ACL's week 1, that's not on Idzik as a bad general Manager for not knowing ahead of time it would happen.

Edited by Warfish
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Players, including how they're rated (especially by GM's), includes how much they make and how much of the cap they eat up.  Ffs, NFL 101?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Revis as GOAT, frankly he's not even the best DB in the NFL now, much less for a decade or more.  I think Darrell Green and Dion Sanders might argue with your claim of Revis as GOAT, rightfully so, and that's just to start.

 

As for the rest, I think the issue is your unrealistic expectations of an instant-pro-bowler fix at all positions on talent-starved roster.  Idzik addressed the position, while addressing many other more vital positions as well first (where he landed, as you say, the best WR and QB on the market to bolster our ailing O), and his choices failed and got hurt.  It happens.  It Decker and Geno both tear their ACL's week 1, that's not on Idzik as a bad general Manager for not knowing ahead of time it would happen.

now your throwing in a gm's perspective(value vs players ability) to try and prove he is over-rated? nice touch

your point of revis not being in the conversation of goat or much less the last decade, there is not much to argue here. 99% of the football world would disagree with you

as far as the rest, I am being unrealistic because idzik had the resources and players available to bolster more positions of weekness, appearently had the desire to do so, just didn't get it done? that makes me unrealistic? his choices failed and got hurt? his choices that failed and got hurt were not viable options in the first place to bolster the weak position.

I have more to say but will stop here. your arguments are no good. you are really, really reaching here. never did I say idzik is a horrible general manager. I said he has made some mistakes. it is obvious to everybody. defending john idzik from someone calling him horrible is one thing, defending john idzik because he has made mistakes, looks like it is agenda driven

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now your throwing in a gm's perspective(value vs players ability) to try and prove he is over-rated? nice touch

your point of revis not being in the conversation of goat or much less the last decade, there is not much to argue here. 99% of the football world would disagree with you

as far as the rest, I am being unrealistic because idzik had the resources and players available to bolster more positions of weekness, appearently had the desire to do so, just didn't get it done? that makes me unrealistic? his choices failed and got hurt? his choices that failed and got hurt were not viable options in the first place to bolster the weak position.

I have more to say but will stop here. your arguments are no good. you are really, really reaching here. never did I say idzik is a horrible general manager. I said he has made some mistakes. it is obvious to everybody. defending john idzik from someone calling him horrible is one thing, defending john idzik because he has made mistakes, looks like it is agenda driven

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I think we've covered our differences of opinion, and I'm happy at this stage to agree to disagree.

You'd have spent 16-18 million this year to get Revis, I wouldn't have. You think Revis is the GOAT, I think he's not even the best CB in the NFL right now.

Fair enough.

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Enter_key.jpg

I think we've covered our differences of opinion, and I'm happy at this stage to agree to disagree.

You'd have spent 16-18 million this year to get Revis, I wouldn't have. You think Revis is the GOAT, I think he's not even the best CB in the NFL right now.

Fair enough.

where are you pulling these figures from??? why do you keep putting words in my mouth to try and prove your argument? why does your argument change with every post I make? you just cant lose, can you.

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Not usually, no.

You seem unduly displeased about it all, though.

I presume it's ok that I disagree on this rather unproveable set of hypothetical questions, right?

I have become accustomed to this type of discussion over the years, being a football chat board and all. I thought we could have a real discussion about these topics. to that extent, it is upsetting. but not much. I really just wanted you to answer the questions stated above. but if you don't acknowledge putting words in my mouth, pulling figures out of mid air, and changing your arguments, I guess there is no reason to continue

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Enter_key.jpgI think we've covered our differences of opinion, and I'm happy at this stage to agree to disagree.You'd have spent 16-18 million this year to get Revis, I wouldn't have. You think Revis is the GOAT, I think he's not even the best CB in the NFL right now.Fair enough.

Nobody would spend that kind of money on a cb for more than a year. A rental. If you think he puts you over the top.

When he held out the Jets essentially gave him a 1 year deal knowing he would opt out in year 2.

Tampa essentially gave him a 1 year deal by not guaranteeing him any $$

NE essentially gave him a 1 year deal by giving him 20 mil next year with a buy out.

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It was fun having him and getting to (and losing) an AFC Championship game.

 

Now let's build a team around more than one guy and maybe someday win that game.

what that era showed this football fan was that it's better to have a great pass rush than a great defensive backfield. 

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Players, including how they're rated (especially by GM's), includes how much they make and how much of the cap they eat up.  Ffs, NFL 101?

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Revis as GOAT, frankly he's not even the best DB in the NFL now, much less for a decade or more.  I think Darrell Green and Dion Sanders might argue with your claim of Revis as GOAT, rightfully so, and that's just to start.

 

As for the rest, I think the issue is your unrealistic expectations of an instant-pro-bowler fix at all positions on talent-starved roster.  Idzik addressed the position, while addressing many other more vital positions as well first (where he landed, as you say, the best WR and QB on the market to bolster our ailing O), and his choices failed and got hurt.  It happens.  It Decker and Geno both tear their ACL's week 1, that's not on Idzik as a bad general Manager for not knowing ahead of time it would happen.

 

  The entire argument about the QB only works if Vick was given a chance to start.  He never was, so he's really a $5 million backup QB. A backup QB that is injury prone.       Yeah if Geno stinks it up, Vick should come in.  But what's more likely to happen is Geno struggles, but doesn't have some 5 INT game.  So he keeps starting, keeps playing, but even a 15 TD and 20 INT season isn't going to get him benched.   So signing the best QB available is kind of a joke when you consider he signed a backup QB for $5 million bucks.       And as some have said, the Jets aren't winning it all this year anyway, so what is really the point of a 34 year old injury prone backup QB for one season?

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The entire argument about the QB only works if Vick was given a chance to start.  He never was, so he's really a $5 million backup QB. A backup QB that is injury prone.

The best backup QB in the NFL, backing up the worst (or one of the worst) starting QB's in the NFL last year.

So signing the best QB available is kind of a joke when you consider he signed a backup QB for $5 million bucks.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

/shrug

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