FlagmanL11 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 So do we want this guy fired today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberjet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 So do we want this guy fired today? Nope - Idzik is not the problem - if in 2 years the Jets are this bad then the Jets need to change the GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Fair. But the general point remains that there is no direct correlate to wins. You'd think the two years of spending pre-Idzik would have been example enough of that. Short memories. I think Idzik has spent pretty wisely since he's been here. But if he doesn't absolutely nail the 2015 draft he should be gone. A guy who preaches building through the draft just can't afford to waste as many picks as he has on failure. I'd like to say major changes in the scouting department will fix things but that could just be wishful thinking; he should have made those decisions in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think Idzik has spent pretty wisely since he's been here. But if he doesn't absolutely nail the 2015 draft he should be gone. A guy who preaches building through the draft just can't afford to waste as many picks as he has on failure. I'd like to say major changes in the scouting department will fix things but that could just be wishful thinking; he should have made those decisions in 2013. He just hasn't spent much. When he does spend, he misses (Vick, CJ) as much -if not more often- than he hits (Decker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 He just hasn't spent much. When he does spend, he misses (Vick, CJ) as much -if not more often- than he hits (Decker). And that's fine. Spending isn't the primary way to build a franchise. Drafting is. And he's failed pretty hard in that department. That should be the # 1 criticism. The biggest failure in the 2014 draft, among many, was not coming away with another QB in the 2014 draft. Geno in the 2nd round was a worthwhile risk but you can't put the franchise on his shoulders. Nabbing Garoppolo would have been a wise decision. We also should have been using those mid-rounders on more offensive linemen, not questionable WR's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's going to be so much fun when the top coaching candidates won't come here because they would have no say in personnel decisions. Idzik has to go, Jets need a top GM candidate that can attract a top coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's going to be so much fun when the top coaching candidates won't come here because they would have no say in personnel decisions. Idzik has to go, Jets need a top GM candidate that can attract a top coach. What top GM candidate is going to come here if he knows he might get saddled with a coach and scouting department he doesn't want, then get fired after 2 years on the job without being able to pick his own guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 What top GM candidate is going to come here if he knows he might get saddled with a coach and scouting department he doesn't want, then get fired after 2 years on the job without being able to pick his own guys? No one is getting saddled with a coach. I'm talking about once Rex is gone. No top coach is going to come here with Idzik in control of personnel decisions. They would be an idiot to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 And that's fine. Spending isn't the primary way to build a franchise. Drafting is. And he's failed pretty hard in that department. That should be the # 1 criticism. The biggest failure in the 2014 draft, among many, was not coming away with another QB in the 2014 draft. Geno in the 2nd round was a worthwhile risk but you can't put the franchise on his shoulders. Nabbing Garoppolo would have been a wise decision. We also should have been using those mid-rounders on more offensive linemen, not questionable WR's. Don't disagree at all. This guy was supposed to bring some Seattle thinking with him. Well, Seattle went all in at the QB position until they found one. Spending heavily on guys like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn before finding Russell Wilson. Going all in with Geno with nothing but another turnover waiting to happen backing him up is practically criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 No one is getting saddled with a coach. I'm talking about once Rex is gone. No top coach is going to come here with Idzik in control of personnel decisions. They would be an idiot to come here. We can certainly attract a HC. There's tons of young coordinators that would take a HC job in Libya if it came open. The problem would be hiring a veteran coach. The coaches that can pick their spot want no business with this franchise. And that would be the case whether Idzik is here or not. Because ultimately the HC would be answering to Woody Johnson, a hapless owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Don't disagree at all. This guy was supposed to bring some Seattle thinking with him. Well, Seattle went all in at the QB position until they found one. Spending heavily on guys like Charlie Whitehurst and Matt Flynn before finding Russell Wilson. Going all in with Geno with nothing but another turnover waiting to happen backing him up is practically criminal. It's so sad how seemingly obvious these things are yet this franchise can never get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's going to be so much fun when the top coaching candidates won't come here because they would have no say in personnel decisions. Idzik has to go, Jets need a top GM candidate that can attract a top coach. I have been a consistent Idzik supporter - actually think he's doing a pretty good job, like his philosophy but caught some bad breaks with injuries. BUT ... If we have to hand over the reigns to get a top coach (i.e. Harbaugh) I think you have to do it. Don't want another first time HC. I don't love the idea of HC/GM but we're pretty desperate right now. Do what it takes to get this thing turned around quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Iddy has already Fired the prior Scouting staff cept for Bradway Iddy is way over his head much like Tanny. Clearly working in Sales at IBM didn't help learn to eye Talent. Look at all the rookie Wr's making an impact Benjamin, Cooks, Brown, Bryant,............Moncreif Watkins............... Fire Iddy and Rexey today and give fans a chance to see a winner by 2018. Feel free to delete post mon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 We can certainly attract a HC. There's tons of young coordinators that would take a HC job in Libya if it came open. The problem would be hiring a veteran coach. The coaches that can pick their spot want no business with this franchise. And that would be the case whether Idzik is here or not. Because ultimately the HC would be answering to Woody Johnson, a hapless owner. Even a young up and coming coordinator won't do it. If you want Herm Edwards II, you will get him with John Idzik as GM. If you want a top tier coordinator and have to battle other teams to get the guy, he is not coming here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I will say this for the spend all the cap money crowd. I think you're almost certain to get your way next year. Idzik had a plan and it's clearly not working out this year (although I can't imagine he expected to win anything this year) and it's likely a 4 year plan - but after what's going on he's going to have no choice but to throw that plan out the window (I wish he wouldn't) and spend all the cap money next year to appease a short sighted fan base. We'll sign our guys and over pay for a bunch of FA's and still with no QB maybe win 8 games and have no prospects of ever getting better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I have been a consistent Idzik supporter - actually think he's doing a pretty good job, like his philosophy but caught some bad breaks with injuries. BUT ... If we have to hand over the reigns to get a top coach (i.e. Harbaugh) I think you have to do it. Don't want another first time HC. I don't love the idea of HC/GM but we're pretty desperate right now. Do what it takes to get this thing turned around quickly. It's hard not to like a philosophy of spending wisely and building thru the draft. That's pretty much everyone's philosophy, except for Mike Tannenbaum. Trouble is that this guy doesn't have enough talent himself to execute that philosophy. You need a personnel expert in charge of personnel. Idzik is another accountant who liked to hang around with the scouts once in a while. He's just not qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I have been a consistent Idzik supporter - actually think he's doing a pretty good job, like his philosophy but caught some bad breaks with injuries. BUT ... If we have to hand over the reigns to get a top coach (i.e. Harbaugh) I think you have to do it. Don't want another first time HC. I don't love the idea of HC/GM but we're pretty desperate right now. Do what it takes to get this thing turned around quickly. I think that is a great point. This isn't a 7-9 or 6-10 team that needs minor tweeks. This is a 1-15 team that only really compares well to teams like the Jags at this point. They need to bring in someone proven and clean up this mess because it has gotten too out of control. Everyone from the trainer, to the scouts to the special teams coach (who tried a college play yesterday) to the HC and GM need to be gone. This is a full fledged clean up job like Parcells had to do. Anything less will result in 5-11. 7-9 type seasons for the next 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's hard not to like a philosophy of spending wisely and building thru the draft. That's pretty much everyone's philosophy, except for Mike Tannenbaum. Trouble is that this guy doesn't have enough talent himself to execute that philosophy. You need a personnel expert in charge of personnel. Idzik is another accountant who liked to hang around with the scouts once in a while. He's just not qualified. I honestly think it's still way to early to make that claim. He did draft a rookie of the year, Amaro looks like he's going to be a keeper, Pryor has been solid (not overly impressive but he's a rookie safety) abouyshi is starting and he's had some bad luck with injuries. You really can't knock a GM for his 4th rounders not panning out in their first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 It's hard not to like a philosophy of spending wisely and building thru the draft. That's pretty much everyone's philosophy, except for Mike Tannenbaum. Trouble is that this guy doesn't have enough talent himself to execute that philosophy. You need a personnel expert in charge of personnel. Idzik is another accountant who liked to hang around with the scouts once in a while. He's just not qualified. That alone is not the problem. The problem is he overestimated himself in the area of personnel. If he was from that background and relied on other people it would be one thing. But instead he came in and got involved in everything, including who starts at QB. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think that is a great point. This isn't a 7-9 or 6-10 team that needs minor tweeks. This is a 1-15 team that only really compares well to teams like the Jags at this point. They need to bring in someone proven and clean up this mess because it has gotten too out of control. Everyone from the trainer, to the scouts to the special teams coach (who tried a college play yesterday) to the HC and GM need to be gone. This is a full fledged clean up job like Parcells had to do. Anything less will result in 5-11. 7-9 type seasons for the next 4 years. Wait, is this a 1-15 team, or a 5-11 team, or a 7-9 team? If the jets, under a new head coach and staff were to go from a supposed 1-15 year this to 7-9 next year, that is progress would absolutely buy into under the right circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Wait, is this a 1-15 team, or a 5-11 team, or a 7-9 team? If the jets, under a new head coach and staff were to go from a supposed 1-15 year this to 7-9 next year, that is progress would absolutely buy into under the right circumstances. They are a long way from 7-9. There are problems all over this team. The staff, the players, the front office. Replace only the coaches and this is a 5-11 team next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 They are a long way from 7-9. There are problems all over this team. The staff, the players, the front office. Replace only the coaches and this is a 5-11 team next year. That would be progress also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That alone is not the problem. The problem is he overestimated himself in the area of personnel. If he was from that background and relied on other people it would be one thing. But instead he came in and got involved in everything, including who starts at QB. lol He should absolutely be involved in that decision. Let's say Rex decided to start Vick and Vick played all season and was okay (but we're not winning anything with him)- he's not the long term answer and now we still don't know what Geno is so we have to waste another season learning that. We know now, Geno's not the guy and we'll have to start over - but we can start over next year instead of two years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Fire them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 There were about 15 John Idzik threads on the first 2 pages. Now there is only one. john idzik is very popular these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I honestly think it's still way to early to make that claim. He did draft a rookie of the year, Amaro looks like he's going to be a keeper, Pryor has been solid (not overly impressive but he's a rookie safety) abouyshi is starting and he's had some bad luck with injuries. You really can't knock a GM for his 4th rounders not panning out in their first year. He hasn't done much outside of the second round. His "bad luck" with injuries starts with drafting players who had injury histories. He had twelve draft picks this year and pissed half of them away. He was loaded up, having enough ammunition to move all over the draft, but failed to consummate a single draft day trade. Instead he took guys just to cut them. The knock on his fourth rounders not working out in their first year is that he was depending on them to do just that. Saunders was handed the starting punt returner job as soon as he was picked. Evans was expected to compete at the #2 spot. Dozier was expected to be ahead of Aboushi. He's gonna get his chance to hire his own coach, and be forced by league rules to start spending. We'll get to see what happens. I'm not encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSJ Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 He should absolutely be involved in that decision. Let's say Rex decided to start Vick and Vick played all season and was okay (but we're not winning anything with him)- he's not the long term answer and now we still don't know what Geno is so we have to waste another season learning that. We know now, Geno's not the guy and we'll have to start over - but we can start over next year instead of two years from now. No reputable HC is coming to the Jets if the GM is picking the QB. It's the same thing I posted here when they were looking for a GM and look who they got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 He hasn't done much outside of the second round. His "bad luck" with injuries starts with drafting players who had injury histories. He had twelve draft picks this year and pissed half of them away. He was loaded up, having enough ammunition to move all over the draft, but failed to consummate a single draft day trade. Instead he took guys just to cut them. The knock on his fourth rounders not working out in their first year is that he was depending on them to do just that. Saunders was handed the starting punt returner job as soon as he was picked. Evans was expected to compete at the #2 spot. Dozier was expected to be ahead of Aboushi. He's gonna get his chance to hire his own coach, and be forced by league rules to start spending. We'll get to see what happens. I'm not encouraged. Yeah, trading picks is the mark of pure genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 He hasn't done much outside of the second round. His "bad luck" with injuries starts with drafting players who had injury histories. He had twelve draft picks this year and pissed half of them away. He was loaded up, having enough ammunition to move all over the draft, but failed to consummate a single draft day trade. Instead he took guys just to cut them. The knock on his fourth rounders not working out in their first year is that he was depending on them to do just that. Saunders was handed the starting punt returner job as soon as he was picked. Evans was expected to compete at the #2 spot. Dozier was expected to be ahead of Aboushi. He's gonna get his chance to hire his own coach, and be forced by league rules to start spending. We'll get to see what happens. I'm not encouraged. I'll have to disagree with you here. I believe he was looking at this as a rebuilding year and had no expectations of winning anything. build up depth through the draft, give them a chance to learn and get better, hope you hit on a couple (which is still WAY to early to judge that he hasn't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Idzik's negligence and incompetence during the off-season is the #1 reason why we're going 4-12 this year. Instead of signing Revis or Cro and another WR like Desean Jackson the man sat on his hands and signed bargain bin trash like D'mitri Patterson and Jacoby Ford. We drafted defense in the first round the 50th year in a row and we didn't even take the right player. And then to top it all off the one big FA splash outside of Decker was Mike Vick and his $5 million deal. Rex and the coaching staff all need to go but I'm becoming a Giants fan if Idzik is allowed to stay and hire some scrub assistant from Seattle whose claim to fame is getting coffee for Pete Carroll. The only thing Idzik was "negligent" over was refraining from firing Rex Ryan last offseason, and of all the "the owner made them do it" claims, THAT (keeping Ryan) is one of the few I actually believe was owner-directed. Give this roster to a real coach, and we're not 1-7 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Yeah, trading picks is the mark of pure genius. Trading two cut players for a guy who might still be on the roster would be on this side of intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Trading two cut players for a guy who might still be on the roster would be on this side of intelligent. Which is it- He can't recognize talent. or The guy can only recognize talent when he pays extra for it. How the heck are we to rationalize that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Which is it- The can't recognize talent. or The guy can only recognize talent when he pays extra for it. How the heck are we to rationalize that? He's done better higher in the draft, so moving a pick higher might've increased his odds. I'm not an advocate of trading a lot of picks away, either. He was in position, though, to make trades up and down the board. There were reports that he tried -and failed- a couple times to make a move, including for WR Marquise Lee. That might've been nice. The can only recognize talent when he pays extra for it monicker applied to Tannenbaum. That's why he overpaid for everything. It could certainly apply to Idzik as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Give this roster to a real coach, and we're not 1-7 today. Yeah they could be 0-8 this roster blows. It might be nice to believe that the CS isn't getting enough out of this wonderful talented group of individuals but it's a lie you are telling yourself to feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Yeah they could be 0-8 this roster blows. It might be nice to believe that the CS isn't getting enough out of this wonderful talented group of individuals but it's a lie you are telling yourself to feel better. Says the guy who was high on the draft picks right after they were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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