RutgersJetFan Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Address what is being said. Dont just make stuff up. The fact remains that Shump had value as evidenced by the fact that he agreed to a $40 million deal. Tyson has value as evidenced by the $52 million deal he just got. Jax got nothing in return from trading those players except less salary cap room. yah but what other options were there besides calderon and a 2nd rounder i mean really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 There you go again with the hyperbole and strawman. Not a single posterin this thread has said thst Jax shouldve gotten multiple allstars for Shump and JR. Nor has anyone said Knicks shoukd sign both LMA and Jordan because it was financially impossible besides the Knicks the lack of FA desireability. Address what is being said. Dont just make stuff up. The fact remains that Shump had value as evidenced by the fact that he agreed to a $40 million deal. Tyson has value as evidenced by the $52 million deal he just got. Jax got nothing in return from trading those players except less salary cap room. Put Masai in charge of the Knicks and he surely gets at least 1 first rounder in those trades, maybe more. That said, Jax did good in the draft and in getting a 1st for Hardaway. He's also done smart signings after trying for big names. Yeah Shump's contract isn't the result of the cavs being idiots who will do anything to appease Lebron. He's a shooting guard who can't shoot, always gets hurt and plays average D but they overpaid him anyway because Lebron ditched Miami when they wouldn't pay luxury tax. Shump is terrible if anything his contract shows we got a bargain with Afflalo. Masai built the raptors in the draft that's what we're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Last year; 5 - J Smith 4 - Q Acy 3 - C Anthony 2 - I Shumpert 1 - J Calderon key reserves; J R Smith, T Hardaway, A Bargnani, C Aldrich, C Early, L Galloway Today ; 5 - R Lopez 4 - D Williams 3 - C Anthony 2 - A Afflalo 1 - J Calderon key reserves; K Porzingis, J Grant, C Early, L Galloway, K Oquinn (W HernanGomez) Kudos to the Knicks front office. It was unrealistic to think the Knicks were going to sign any of the high priced free agents, but I liked what they did this off season. Now if they would fire Fisher, that would close out a solid off season. On paper, the Knicks are a much better team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Last year; 5 - J Smith 4 - Q Acy 3 - C Anthony 2 - I Shumpert 1 - J Calderon key reserves; J R Smith, T Hardaway, A Bargnani, C Aldrich, C Early, L Galloway Today ; 5 - R Lopez 4 - D Williams 3 - C Anthony 2 - A Afflalo 1 - J Calderon key reserves; K Porzingis, J Grant, C Early, L Galloway, (W HernanGomez) Kudos to the Knicks front office. It was unrealistic to think the Knicks were going to sign any of the high priced free agents, but I liked what they did this off season. Now if they would fire Fisher, that would close out a solid off season. On paper, the Knicks are a much better team So they go from 17 wins to 25 wins. Not too shabby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 2/10? You ****in kidding me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 So they go from 17 wins to 25 wins. Not too shabby. It's an improvement. How do you think this team as of today compares to the team that won 54 games in the 2012-2013 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 2/10? You ****in kidding me? The 2nd yr is a player option. With the Cap going up next yr, this guy probably opps out. This is a better deal than Rondo's 1yr 10 mil deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 It's an improvement. How do you think this team as of today compares to the team that won 54 games in the 2012-2013 season. That team had Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler. This team is a calamitous sh*theap. How do you effing think they compare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That team had Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler. This team is a calamitous sh*theap. How do you effing think they compare? Were those 2 guys not on the team that got their coach fired the very next season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 That team had Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler. This team is a calamitous sh*theap. How do you effing think they compare? Phil Jackson got paid $12 million do put this together this year. $12 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Phil Jackson got paid $12 million do put this together this year. $12 million. Seriously, what were u expecting ? Knicks needed a Center and a point guard. Once the top 3 guys in the draft were gone, I think the tired Old Man did pretty decent . He got us a PG who has an offensive game via the draft. (Grant) He got us a solid Vet Center for this yr and a kid to groom. (Lopez) (Hernangomez) He signed a young athletic PF who can finish around the basket for a yr. (Williams) He got us under the cap. In his 1st yr on the Job, what do I have to complain about ? Well Maybe Coach Time-Out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Spurs get Aldridge 4/80. That franchise walks on water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Were those 2 guys not on the team that got their coach fired the very next season ? What? Chandler broke his leg in November and Kidd was coaching the Nets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Spurs get Aldridge 4/80. That franchise walks on water I dunno. Seems like a misstep. If you can make a guy like Aldridge produce like an actual star why not pick somebody who doesn't already get paid like one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 What? Chandler broke his leg in November and Kidd was coaching the Nets. I stand corrected . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I dunno. Seems like a misstep. If you can make a guy like Aldridge produce like an actual star why not pick somebody who doesn't already get paid like one? Not an Aldridge fan? I've only watched him play twice or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I dunno. Seems like a misstep. If you can make a guy like Aldridge produce like an actual star why not pick somebody who doesn't already get paid like one? I don't see why you're splitting hairs over an extra $5-10 million with max guys at this point. The cap isn't going to matter nearly as much as it does this time next year and these contracts aren't going to be albatrosses like they were in the past. That still doesn't excuse giving ******* Derrick Williams $10 million though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Not an Aldridge fan? I've only watched him play twice or so. Aldridge is OK. I don't think he's worth a max deal but I can see the argument with the new structure coming up. He's worth a lot more than Robin Lopez so I guess whatever. Pop really is a god though man. Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 is o'quinn going to start ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 I don't see why you're splitting hairs over an extra $5-10 million with max guys at this point. The cap isn't going to matter nearly as much as it does this time next year and these contracts aren't going to be albatrosses like they were in the past. Saying that Carmelo Anthony and LaMarcus Aldridge aren't max players is not even close to splitting hairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Aldridge is OK. I don't think he's worth a max deal but I can see the argument with the new structure coming up. He's worth a lot more than Robin Lopez so I guess whatever. Pop really is a god though man. Jesus. Popovich is a trip. I wonder if he'll be remembered for being an all-time great or if they'll dismiss him somewhat for having Duncan and doing it all in one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Aldridge is OK. I don't think he's worth a max deal but I can see the argument with the new structure coming up. He's worth a lot more than Robin Lopez so I guess whatever. Pop really is a god though man. Jesus. Portland got Aminu and Ed Davis for what we're giving Sideshow Mel. That's just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Even David Aldridge, smartass Knicks hater, tweeted the Knicks had a good offseason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Seriously, what were u expecting ? Knicks needed a Center and a point guard. Once the top 3 guys in the draft were gone, I think the tired Old Man did pretty decent . He got us a PG who has an offensive game via the draft. (Grant) He got us a solid Vet Center for this yr and a kid to groom. (Lopez) (Hernangomez) He signed a young athletic PF who can finish around the basket for a yr. (Williams) He got us under the cap. In his 1st yr on the Job, what do I have to complain about ? Well Maybe Coach Time-Out . We were supposed to sign Jordan and Aldridge after Karl Anthony Towns fell to 4 and Shump and JR netted us a half dozen lottery picks. I love "Phil got $12 million" stuff. Yeah like it's their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Popovich is a trip. I wonder if he'll be remembered for being an all-time great or if they'll dismiss him somewhat for having Duncan and doing it all in one place. The former no question. Duncan hasn't been Duncan for a long time and Duncan wasn't Duncan for his first title either. He's coached up another HOF'er, a fringe HOF'er, and a guy who has the trajectory of being a HOF'er. He's maintained an insanely long period of success throughout arguably the hardest era to do so. At this point I don't see any argument for not putting him second to Auerbach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Saying that Carmelo Anthony and LaMarcus Aldridge aren't max players is not even close to splitting hairs. Now Greg Popovich is in the wrong too on this stuff. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Popovich is a trip. I wonder if he'll be remembered for being an all-time great or if they'll dismiss him somewhat for having Duncan and doing it all in one place. Leonard is a star though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Does anyone know the roster of the Knicks Summer league team ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Now Greg Popovich is in the wrong too on this stuff. Right. What does this even mean? It's not like the validity of the WP model and Popovich knowing what he's doing are mutually exclusive generally. They've been in the top four in wins produced for like six years in a row. This is just a really interesting move that there isn't any kind of precedent for. Aldridge is an average player over the course of his career and produced about half as many wins as any of the Spurs' top three players last year so on the numbers I don't think it's all that controversial to suggest that he's an unusual candidate for San Antonio to buck the trend of not making big splashes in free agency. I'm assuming he's going to produce at a career level and that his contract is going to be below market under the new cap and it still seems really unlikely that they're going to get a positive return here. But if you want to reduce this to derp then sure, **** it, Popovich is wrong. Oooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 We were supposed to sign Jordan and Aldridge after Karl Anthony Towns fell to 4 and Shump and JR netted us a half dozen lottery picks. Right. Because there's no middle ground between multiple miracles and the sh*t we ended up getting. It's either two max guys and the best player in the draft or 30M a year committed to average players when we're a million miles from contending. Portland lost four starters, and with them twice as many wins as our whole roster produced, and they still had a much better offseason than we did. Spare me the buttsniffing what were we supposed to do nonsense. Anything. But. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 What does this even mean? It's not like the validity of the WP model and Popovich knowing what he's doing are mutually exclusive generally. They've been in the top four in wins produced for like six years in a row. This is just a really interesting move that there isn't any kind of precedent for. Aldridge is an average player over the course of his career and produced about half as many wins as any of the Spurs' top three players last year so on the numbers I don't think it's all that controversial to suggest that he's an unusual candidate for San Antonio to buck the trend of not making big splashes in free agency. I'm assuming he's going to produce at a career level and that his contract is going to be below market under the new cap and it still seems really unlikely that they're going to get a positive return here. But if you want to reduce this to derp then sure, **** it, Popovich is wrong. Oooooooooo. No Colonel Sanders, you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Right. Because there's no middle ground between multiple miracles and the sh*t we ended up getting. It's either two max guys and the best player in the draft or 30M a year committed to average players when we're a million miles from contending. Portland lost four starters, and with them twice as many wins as our whole roster produced, and they still had a much better offseason than we did. Spare me the buttsniffing what were we supposed to do nonsense. Anything. But. This. [/quote The fact that the Blazers had assets other teams had an interest in means absolutely nothing to you. Who on the Knicks roster could we have traded to acquire a piece of driff wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 No Colonel Sanders, you're wrong. The thing about wins produced and Carmelo, or the Spurs maxing Aldridge, is that, as Marty McFly once said, it brings a murky problem into specific relief. You can tell by observation that these guys are good jump-shooters, while it stands to simple reason that these kinds of shots aren't as efficient as three-pointers or shots at the rim. So what's it worth to be good at something you'd rather not be doing in the first place. The model at least has a principled approach to figuring this out, and you can't articulate a more reasoned objection to the way it does this than inane claptrap about the usefulness of regression analysis generally with regard to basketball generally (none of which frankly makes any goddamned sense and is dumb in the abstract anyway). Why is conventional wisdom right and WP wrong as to how this specific skill is valued? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The only assets the Blazers traded were Batum and 25. We had 4 and acquired 19, which is worth more than that. What goes out the door, voluntarily or otherwise, never hurts you in the NBA the way negative additions do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 The thing about wins produced and Carmelo, or the Spurs maxing Aldridge, is that, as Marty McFly once said, it brings a murky problem into specific relief. You can tell by observation that these guys are good jump-shooters, while it stands to simple reason that these kinds of shots aren't as efficient as three-pointers or shots at the rim. So what's it worth to be good at something you'd rather not be doing in the first place. The model at least has a principled approach to figuring this out, and you can't articulate a more reasoned objection to the way it does this than inane claptrap about the usefulness of regression analysis generally with regard to basketball generally (none of which frankly makes any goddamned sense and is dumb in the abstract anyway). Why is conventional wisdom right and WP wrong as to how this specific skill is valued? I have been keeping a tally I have literally explained to you 6,475 times the errors in their model and why regression is a flawed means of interpreting basketball. Stop grandstanding for the imp and Shane or I am going to have to start charging you. Aaron Sorkin man. Jesus. You're ******* losing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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