AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 "Their full potential" is just a thing we make up to quantify what we want to believe of the roster as it relates to our feelings of Rex. We don't really know what the "full potential" of the roster is at an given point. Plenty of teams are competitive with no-name players at key positions. That's pretty much the entire premise of sports debate. A bunch of fans pretending to know more than what we do. That's why I try to preface my comments and make it clear that this is simply my opinion and I may very well be wrong. It could be that with another HC, Geno Smith could put Tom Brady to shame and Az Hakim's brother could be another Steve Smith. I don't see it, but that doesn't mean it can't be so. Based on the players you've seen over the past several years, you feel this team should be better than what they've been and you want to credit Rex with all the picks and FA signings. I think they've gotten about as much as somebody could expect and the Rex has input on picks and FA's, but the final decision is that of the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's Rex's job to coach the team. He, like every other coach in the NFL plays a role in player acquisition. The thing is, I don't know, and you don't know to what extent that goes. If Rex had as much authority as his detractors pretend to know he does, they would not have come close to having the off-season they just had. No way in the world Rex insisted on signing Dmitri Patterson to fix the secondary. If I hated Rex, I would 100% agree with you and blame him for the draft picks and FA signings, but I'm trying to remain objective without pretending to have inside knowledge of the back room discussions that go on. Has nothing to do with Hate AFJF. I liked Rex just fine, and like all of us, wanted him to succeed. He hasn't. 6 years and his only real success was with the previous guys roster. How many of "Rex's guys" on D have been duds. A lot. A Rex admits he is 100% hands off on O. He's a solid D-Co in over his head. Sucks, but it is what it is. To support ongoing Rex, you have to believe in a fantasy world were Rex has ho responsibility. I don't live in that fantasy world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Revis, Milliner, Mcdougle, Wilson is all you need to know.. that alone would equate to a couple more wins. The team has been snake bitten with injuries and a miserly caretaker. It all evens out. Rex's first couple of years they were tremendously fortunate as to a lack of injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Has nothing to do with Hate AFJF. I liked Rex just fine, and like all of us, wanted him to succeed. He hasn't. 6 years and his only real success was with the previous guys roster. How many of "Rex's guys" on D have been duds. A lot. A Rex admits he is 100% hands off on O. He's a solid D-Co in over his head. Sucks, but it is what it is. To support ongoing Rex, you have to believe in a fantasy world were Rex has ho responsibility. I don't live in that fantasy world. If you'd read what I've already said in this thread you'll see that I too have had my moments where I wanted Rex gone. He makes a lot of the same mistakes over and over again, but despite that, he takes one of the least talented rosters in the NFL and finds a way to keep them within a score of some of the top QB's in the NFL in a league that is dominated by good QB's. He has the worst QB in the NFL right now, but manages to stay within a score of Manning, Cutler, and Stafford with Geno Smith at the helm. I can't think of another HC that I believe could do that. To simply say "he hasn't succeeded" without looking at his roster is just silly. How would some of the best HC's in the NFL do with Antonio Allen/Darin Walls at CB against some of the top passing attacks in the NFL? Like I said though, we'll find out just how bad Rex is when the next guy comes in and Geno is top five or top ten in all major statistical categories on his way to 13 wins and a super bowl...Rex is the only thing holding him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 With Rex here, I just don't see the offense improving enough. That's what it comes down to. If we could keep him on as a DC, I'd be cool with that...but the guy isnt a HC unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 He's a solid D-Co in over his head. he's a genius D-Co in over his head. I don't agree that the HC has any significant say in personnel. At least not for years. When Tanny was sitting shotgun with him in Bart Scott's driveway, waiting for FA to start, sure, he had say. Rex doesn't have much pull anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ......will all the "it's not Rex's fault" guys change their minds? Or are they wedded to Rex getting a 7th year after four strait non-winning seasons no matter what? If we lose to N.E. (in NE), Buffalo, K.C. (at KC) & Pittsburgh, which is entirely possible by the way, and go a stunning 1-9 to start, does Rex even make it to the end of the Bye Week? What record in 2014 would it take, if any, to convince the Rexophiles that Rex should go at years end? 1-15? even the most ardent Rex supporters realize that his time here is done. It should have been done 2 years ago but it's definitely done now. If anything, 1-9 probably seals Idzik's fate as well. While Woody likes to espouse "staying the course" and "building a program" there will be all sorts of pressure on him to make significant changes. it's unfortunate but I think Idzik's fate will ultimately come down to how much $$ he is owed if fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 he's a genius D-Co in over his head. I don't agree that the HC has any significant say in personnel. At least not for years. When Tanny was sitting shotgun with him in Bart Scott's driveway, waiting for FA to start, sure, he had say. Rex doesn't have much pull anymore. Tanny was riding shotgun less than 2 years ago. This roster is Rex's roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 even the most ardent Rex supporters realize that his time here is done. It should have been done 2 years ago but it's definitely done now. If anything, 1-9 probably seals Idzik's fate as well. While Woody likes to espouse "staying the course" and "building a program" there will be all sorts of pressure on him to make significant changes. it's unfortunate but I think Idzik's fate will ultimately come down to how much $$ he is owed if fired. It's possible...unless Idzik feels he has stuff already done for 2015(coach, Dez/Demaryius...) that type of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Tanny was riding shotgun less than 2 years ago. This roster is Rex's roster. So you honestly believe Rex has the CB's he wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So you honestly believe Rex has the CB's he wanted? I'm going to assume he wanted Kyle Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So you honestly believe Rex has the CB's he wanted? The corners he wanted would have cost $20 mil per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm going to assume he wanted Kyle Wilson. I'm sure he did want Kyle Wilson several years ago when he was a consensus first round pick. I'm talking about right now. If he was given a list of the CB's that were available in AF, you think Dmitri Paterson was his no. 1 choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm sure he did want Kyle Wilson several years ago when he was a consensus first round pick. I'm talking about right now. If he was given a list of the CB's that were available in AF, you think Dmitri Paterson was his no. 1 choice? Probably not, but honestly...with the amount of resources Rex has been given to build his defense...he's lucky we even signed Patterson. Make it work Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The corners he wanted would have cost $20 mil per year. Right, so when they explained that to Rex and told him he had to make another choice, he went with Dmitri Patterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Can anyone name Detroit's CB's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Tanny was riding shotgun less than 2 years ago. This roster is Rex's roster. Head coach is a full time, 80-120 hour a week job. He doesn't have time to manage the roster. There's another, 80-120 hour a week position called general manager that manages the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm sure he did want Kyle Wilson several years ago when he was a consensus first round pick. I'm talking about right now. Oh, well in that case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Like I said though, we'll find out just how bad Rex is when the next guy comes in and Geno is top five or top ten in all major statistical categories on his way to 13 wins and a super bowl...Rex is the only thing holding him back. /eyeroll Don't hold your breath, Geno Smith is likely gone (or demoted to #2/#3) at years end, and Rex is clearly not the "only" thing holding us back. And the next guy could be far worse, that's the risk you take trying to better your team each offseason. 6 years in and four non-winning seasons in a row, with the team performing worse each year than the last......it's time to take that risk. Every NFL team would take that risk in our place. The real fear is that Rex pulls off his usual "beat a few really bad teams" thing late, and wins just enough to make Woody and Idzik think like you do AFJF, and think maybe it's not Rex, it's "talent". Rex year 7? Forgeddaboutit, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Head coach is a full time, 80-120 hour a week job. He doesn't have time to manage the roster. There's another, 80-120 hour a week position called general manager that manages the roster. When does the GM reveal the roster to Rex- the first day of camp? Is it like revealing a showcase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Right, so when they explained that to Rex and told him he had to make another choice, he went with Dmitri Patterson. What coach has every player he wants on his roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Probably not, but honestly...with the amount of resources Rex has been given to build his defense...he's lucky we even signed Patterson. Make it work Rex. They have invested heavily in the D-line. As a result, they are arguably the best D-line in the NFL. Among the best in sacks and stopping the run. But wait...let me guess...that's Karl Dunbar. He gets the credit. They have also invested heavily in the secondary. Drafted a guy who never missed a game in college and looked great at the end of last season but now can't stay healthy. Took a consensus first round CB in Wilson who has been a total bust and just won't turn his head around. Do you think Rex is telling him not to turn around and find the ball, or do you think he just won't do it? Took Pryor in rd. 1 this year and looks like a guy who was drafted this year. Alas, Rex has an injured first rounder, a first rounder who refuses to locate the ball, and a rookie playing like a rookie. As a result, he's starting An UDFA, a 7th rd safety, and a guy who was a street FA a few weeks ago. Those guys just made life harder for Peyton Manning than Patrick Peterson and Antonio Cromartie did last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 When does the GM reveal the roster to Rex- the first day of camp? Is it like revealing a showcase? Knowing Idzik's rate of motion, he probably still hasn't done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What coach has every player he wants on his roster? Rex. It's HIS roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 he's starting An UDFA, a 7th rd safety, and a guy who was a street FA a few weeks ago. Those guys just made life harder for Peyton Manning than Patrick Peterson and Antonio Cromartie did last week. Rex's ability to coach defense against Big time QBs is hugely impressive. Year in and year out. The fact that he isn't a QB guru doesn't take away from this man's coaching ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 They're cracking. Keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 They have invested heavily in the D-line. As a result, they are arguably the best D-line in the NFL. Among the best in sacks and stopping the run. But wait...let me guess...that's Karl Dunbar. He gets the credit. They have also invested heavily in the secondary. Drafted a guy who never missed a game in college and looked great at the end of last season but now can't stay healthy. Took a consensus first round CB in Wilson who has been a total bust and just won't turn his head around. Do you think Rex is telling him not to turn around and find the ball, or do you think he just won't do it? Took Pryor in rd. 1 this year and looks like a guy who was drafted this year. Alas, Rex has an injured first rounder, a first rounder who refuses to locate the ball, and a rookie playing like a rookie. As a result, he's starting An UDFA, a 7th rd safety, and a guy who was a street FA a few weeks ago. Those guys just made life harder for Peyton Manning than Patrick Peterson and Antonio Cromartie did last week. The defense really hasnt been that big of an issue tbh. It's more their lack of ability to create turnovers than anything- but I think that's more scheme oriented than personnel. And the team has struggled to force turnovers pretty much every year Rex has been here(even with Revis and Cro). The core problem with the Jets is they're trying to fix 6 years of bad decision making in the other two phases of the game. We've also played a bunch of really good passing offenses in a row. We just have absolutely nothing on offense to counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 /eyeroll Don't hold your breath, Geno Smith is likely gone (or demoted to #2/#3) at years end, and Rex is clearly not the "only" thing holding us back. And the next guy could be far worse, that's the risk you take trying to better your team each offseason. 6 years in and four non-winning seasons in a row, with the team performing worse each year than the last......it's time to take that risk. Every NFL team would take that risk in our place. The real fear is that Rex pulls off his usual "beat a few really bad teams" thing late, and wins just enough to make Woody and Idzik think like you do AFJF, and think maybe it's not Rex, it's "talent". Rex year 7? Forgeddaboutit, Oh god no, I don't expect a year seven at all. Idzik handed Rex a roster worth 3-4 wins. Rex ruined Idzik's year by winning 8 games. Idzik said, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again...and handed close to the same exact roster with a much tougher schedule. He's gonna' get to fire Rex and bring in Bevel. No way we're not in the SB within two years once Rex is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Rex's ability to coach defense against Big time QBs is hugely impressive. Year in and year out. The fact that he isn't a QB guru doesn't take away from this man's coaching ability. Finally, something I can agree with. Rex is a great D-Co, no doubt about it, and he probably will be so again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 The defense really hasnt been that big of an issue tbh. It's more their lack of ability to create turnovers than anything- but I think that's more scheme oriented than personnel. And the team has struggled to force turnovers pretty much every year Rex has been here(even with Revis and Cro). The core problem with the Jets is they're trying to fix 6 years of bad decision making in the other two phases of the game. We've also played a bunch of really good passing offenses in a row. We just have absolutely nothing on offense to counter it. No we don't....we've done far better than we should be doing against these QB's and every time they stop Cutler/Stafford/Peyton...they trot Geno out there for his turn. Ugh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Rex's ability to coach defense against Big time QBs is hugely impressive. Year in and year out. The fact that he isn't a QB guru doesn't take away from this man's coaching ability. vs. Brady: 4-7 vs. Manning: 2*-2 vs. Rivers: 2-2 vs. Brees: 1-1 vs. Roethlisberger: 1-3 vs. Rodgers: 0-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 No we don't....we've done far better than we should be doing against these QB's and every time they stop Cutler/Stafford/Peyton...they trot Geno out there for his turn. Ugh... Hm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Gritty overachiever syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 Oh god no, I don't expect a year seven at all. Idzik handed Rex a roster worth 3-4 wins. Rex ruined Idzik's year by winning 8 games. Idzik said, if at first you don't succeed, try, try again...and handed close to the same exact roster with a much tougher schedule. He's gonna' get to fire Rex and bring in Bevel. No way we're not in the SB within two years once Rex is gone. Seems Jets Fan Land is having a run on Tin Foil. I'm sure Idzik is real happy he was forced to hold on to Rex by the Owner (who loves Rex almost as much as you seem to), and that Rex thus far can't seem to win anything. That doesn't make Idzik look bad, right? Idzik will be lucky not to lose his job at years end too if we go truly south. The difference between you and I my friend, is I'm talking facts, records and measurables......you're talking straw men, fantasies and conspiracy theories. But I can play that too......By your argument, Rex will surely be hired as a Head Coach after he is fired, and win the Super Bowl his first year he's so great at getting "the most from his talent". If he can win 8 games with a 3 win team (as you just claimed), surely he'll win 14 games with an average 8 win roster, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Hm So you feel like Walls/Allen shouldn't be getting dominated by these guys? I thought they would and I was dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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