Pac Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 "Big John" bah.. that was going to be my opening for my reply to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPBanBadPosters Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 It's only not good for the team at 1-6 if your priority is draft positioning. It's possible the Jets aren't playing for draft positioning. If we aren't, then that's a problem, and it shows that we're being run by incompetent people (but what else is new). The season is lost; we should be having a fire-sale, getting rid of anyone and everyone who isn't in the long-term plans for pennies on the dollar. Again, that's what a smart team with their eye on the future would do. That ~$7mm we're paying Harvin could've instead been rolled over to next year and been used in part toward a mega-contract to bring in a true #1 like Demaryius, to sign Mo long term, to sign a FA QB like Hoyer…a number of things. Instead, we spend it on an injury prone malcontent AFTER we have a 1-6 record. It just reeks of SOJ stupidity, and the more I think about it the less sense it makes and the more I hate it. If he's in the long-term plans, assuming Rex isn't HC next year, how do we know the next HC wants him on the roster? If this was a 9 game rental, it was an even dumber move. And by the way, if we didn't make this trade, Seattle was gonna cut him anyway: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11727394/if-no-trade-percy-harvin-was-cut-seattle-seahawks So we wasted a 4th (if he's a long-term keeper) or a 6th (if he's a rental) for a guy we could've signed off the street next week for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 You're probably the only one under the impression that he's on the team next year under his current contract. Harvin is 26. If he plays well, they make a new deal. If he doesn't, we send him packing and a 6th round pick. I have no idea where 17M for one season comes from. I'm sorry you feel lied to. I am. Why would Harvin re-negotiate with the Jets? he has a contract for $10M, why should he take less? If anything he can force the Jets to cut him and then he is free to negotiate with 31 teams, not just the Jets. 17M = remaining 7M for a wasted season + 10M for 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 You, not me, are the one who is irrationally coming up with excuses for everything Big John does. You cannot reconcile his decision making in any cohesive way. It's like he's running the Jets with the Magic 8 Ball. I was screaming about the $24M of unused space. And I was 100% right about it. The $93M payroll cost the Jets at least 2 games this season. Once the season is out of reach there is no point of using cap space for the sake of using cap space. This may be a desperation move to keep the paper bags out of the stadium but from a cap/football standpoint it literally makes no sense to blow $7M of available 2015 cap space on a wasted 2014 season. What about the last 2 season makes you think Idzik will get close to spending all the money they have available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Why would Harvin re-negotiate with the Jets? he has a contract for $10M, why should he take less? If anything he can force the Jets to cut him and then he is free to negotiate with 31 teams, not just the Jets. 17M = remaining 7M for a wasted season + 10M for 2015. Every time a team gets rid of him his asking price goes down. There's zero % chance he gets 10 million from Big John or anyone else next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Why would Harvin re-negotiate with the Jets? he has a contract for $10M, why should he take less? If anything he can force the Jets to cut him and then he is free to negotiate with 31 teams, not just the Jets. 17M = remaining 7M for a wasted season + 10M for 2015. So, in reality, it's not 17M for one season... So, that's incorrect. Why would he restructure, the same reason anyone in the league ever restructures. Because, they want new guaranteed money (Harvin has none after this year) and because no one is going to pay him close to that 10M number next year. So, he'll likely get the best deal from the team that just traded for him. And, if he doesn't, the Jets lose a 6th rounder. Or, the equivalent of Brandon Dixon, Quincy Enunwa, Enemkapali, Boyd, or Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Every time a team gets rid of him his asking price goes down. There's zero % chance he gets 10 million from Big John or anyone else next year. so this is basically a 7M tryout? wouldn't you rather see that $$ used towards a FA in the off-season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 so this is basically a 7M tryout? wouldn't you rather see that $$ used towards a FA in the off-season? If Harvin winds up on next years team that's exactly the kind of player I'd want to see that 7 million go towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 so this is basically a 7M tryout? wouldn't you rather see that $$ used towards a FA in the off-season? Harvin has zero guaranteed money after this season, so none of that $7m will interfere with anything we do in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Harvin has zero guaranteed money after this season, so none of that $7m will interfere with anything we do in the offseason. His counter will be that the 7 million could have carried over to next years kitty... As if Idzik planned on spending 60 million on FA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If we aren't, then that's a problem, and it shows that we're being run by incompetent people (but what else is new). The season is lost; we should be having a fire-sale, getting rid of anyone and everyone who isn't in the long-term plans for pennies on the dollar. Again, that's what a smart team with their eye on the future would do. That ~$7mm we're paying Harvin could've instead been rolled over to next year and been used in part toward a mega-contract to bring in a true #1 like Demaryius, to sign Mo long term, to sign a FA QB like Hoyer…a number of things. Instead, we spend it on an injury prone malcontent AFTER we have a 1-6 record. It just reeks of SOJ stupidity, and the more I think about it the less sense it makes and the more I hate it. If he's in the long-term plans, assuming Rex isn't HC next year, how do we know the next HC wants him on the roster? If this was a 9 game rental, it was an even dumber move. And by the way, if we didn't make this trade, Seattle was gonna cut him anyway: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11727394/if-no-trade-percy-harvin-was-cut-seattle-seahawks So we wasted a 4th (if he's a long-term keeper) or a 6th (if he's a rental) for a guy we could've signed off the street next week for free. Real coaches and players, not message board posters, don't tank especially before the halfway point. It's just not what's done. As for next year, before you consider that Harris, D'Brick, and Mangold are all going to have to be dealt with, the Jets were slated to have some 50M in cap space with the roll-over. So, now, 7M less and we can still do whatever we need to do. Lets see Demaryius get to free agency before we bemoan the possibility that we might not have the money (which we still will) to sign him. Lastly, don't care what an article, with no direct quote about him being cut, says. Even if true, the Jets apparently valued him more and the structure of the deal more, than chasing him in mid-season free agency. I too will miss the next Brandon Dixon if this doesn't work out, but I think it'll be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 Harvin has zero guaranteed money after this season, so none of that $7m will interfere with anything we do in the offseason. huh? the entire point of having all of this unused cap space was to carry it over to 2015. the $7M used on Harvin in a 1-6 season is $7M less than would otherwise be available next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 the entire point of having all of this unused cap space was to carry it over to 2015. Not really, no. Idzik's hypocrisy is apparently conflicting the narrative that was created about him on this message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 huh? the entire point of having all of this unused cap space was to carry it over to 2015. the $7M used on Harvin in a 1-6 season is $7M less than would otherwise be available next year. I think the assumption is that we're eating the $7m now and renegotiating him after this season. But yes, I agree that we shouldn't acquire any players so we can acquire more players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Why would Harvin re-negotiate with the Jets? same reasons holmes did market value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 His counter will be that the 7 million could have carried over to next years kitty... As if Idzik planned on spending 60 million on FA's. again, this is exactly the hypocrisy and throwing darts GM'ing that's been going on since Big John took over. if the Jets were not trying to carry over the cap space then why not sign more players for 2014? we certainly could have used a CB, OG, and WR. Why pass on all available FA's? It doesn't make sense and it goes to show just how over his head big John is. what all of the die hard Idzik supporters need to understand is: THERE IS NO MASTER PLAN. idzik has been selling snake oil since he took over. it's all talk that sounds good but when it comes down to it he has no clue what he's doing. Like Herm, big john is a perfect example of the peter principle. He is a cap guy, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Big John big John big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 again, this is exactly the hypocrisy and throwing darts GM'ing that's been going on since Big John took over. if the Jets were not trying to carry over the cap space then why not sign more players for 2014? we certainly could have used a CB, OG, and WR. Why pass on all available FA's? It doesn't make sense and it goes to show just how over his head big John is. what all of the die hard Idzik supporters need to understand is: THERE IS NO MASTER PLAN. idzik has been selling snake oil since he took over. it's all talk that sounds good but when it comes down to it he has no clue what he's doing. Like Herm, big john is a perfect example of the peter principle. He is a cap guy, nothing more. What do you think the master plan would have looked like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 again, this is exactly the hypocrisy and throwing darts GM'ing that's been going on since Big John took over. if the Jets were not trying to carry over the cap space then why not sign more players for 2014? we certainly could have used a CB, OG, and WR. Why pass on all available FA's? It doesn't make sense and it goes to show just how over his head big John is. what all of the die hard Idzik supporters need to understand is: THERE IS NO MASTER PLAN. idzik has been selling snake oil since he took over. it's all talk that sounds good but when it comes down to it he has no clue what he's doing. Like Herm, big john is a perfect example of the peter principle. He is a cap guy, nothing more. I'm curious why you've continued to ignore the part where we weren't giving long term money to guys who aren't part of the long term plan. You've done it numerous times in this thread alone. As an aside, is moronic nicknames just a Jet fan thing, or is it league wide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Big John big John big john I fail to see why Papa John hasn't come into the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolot Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 "Big John"Big John and Big Geno, starting to connect the dots now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 What do you think the master plan would have looked like? that's the point, there is no plan. Idzik claims to have a plan but doesn't - here is the perfect example: Jets bring Vontae Davis in for a visit. Davis signs with Ind, Jets have no backup plan. Jets sign career journeyman Dimitri Patterson and then reach for McDougal in the draft. So, what was the plan at CB? If the master plan was to spend more $$ at WR then why not sign Golden Tate or Desean Jackson in addition to Decker? Both Tate and Jackson could have been signed in the off-season and played 16 games with the NYJ. Instead, Idzik used a draft pick + the same amount of $$ to get 9 games from Harvin after the season is out of reach. If he had signed DJax or Tate they would be Jets in 2015 for less than is owed Harvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Jets bring Vontae Davis in for a visit. (Note: this never happened) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPBanBadPosters Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 What do you think the master plan would have looked like? I know you didn't ask me, but IMO a smart "master plan" would consist of 1) losing as many games as possible this season in order to a) get the best draft position possible and potentially pick a franchise QB, and b ) justify firing Wrecks & co.; and 2) spend as little as possible this season in order to splurge next season (with a new coaching staff in place) on as many young studs as possible (e.g. give Mo a long-term deal, sign a true #1 WR like Demariyus or Dez long-term, etc) who will be in the plans for years to come. I've been one to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt more than most here have, but this move makes no sense whatsoever to me. Like I said, at the beginning at the year, or if we're something like 3-4 now, then okay, I get it; at 1-6, it's stupefying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 (Note: this never happened) sorry....it should have said "Jets speak with Davis agent" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I dunno, it seems like Lionel Richie was up all night long before making a post like this. This endless love he has for Rex, I mean he doesn't have to be such a brick house about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Methinks you're confusing poor planning with poor execution and poor decision-making. Also, you're really just caught up thinking about short-term ramifications of this season and not taking longer term viewpoint. We have the league's lowest payroll and about 15 million dollars in dead space and possibly dealing with a rising cap. The lost 6.5 million in transfers is not that significant in the context of our cap room. It's technically money you were actually wanting him to spend this year on a WR but the actual benefit is that he can possibly be here beyond this season. If the upside was that he was a one year rental it's a horrible deal, but he has a favorable contract for the Jets because of the lack of guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 I dunno, it seems like Lionel Richie was up all night long before making a post like this. This endless love he has for Rex, I mean he doesn't have to be such a brick house about it. how could you miss easy like sunday morning? and no.....no endless love for Rex. I just don't want Idzik to screw the next regime with desperation moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Also, the Jets have demonstrated they are unwilling and unable to draft competent WRs. I hope they don't just think the WR position is solved and bring in more legit WR talent instead of just expecting Enunwa or Evans to battle for a spot next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 That is exactly my point on Idzik's hypocrisy and his inconsistent message as a GM. Desean Jackson was too expensive at 3 yrs / $24M but Harvin at 10M / yr + a pick is a "great deal". I don't understand what Idzik is doing and it now looks like he doesn't have a plan and is just making random moves. He provided a favor for his old boss...what's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 that's the point, there is no plan. Idzik claims to have a plan but doesn't - here is the perfect example: Jets bring Vontae Davis in for a visit. Davis signs with Ind, Jets have no backup plan. Jets sign career journeyman Dimitri Patterson and then reach for McDougal in the draft. So, what was the plan at CB? If the master plan was to spend more $$ at WR then why not sign Golden Tate or Desean Jackson in addition to Decker? Both Tate and Jackson could have been signed in the off-season and played 16 games with the NYJ. Instead, Idzik used a draft pick + the same amount of $$ to get 9 games from Harvin after the season is out of reach. If he had signed DJax or Tate they would be Jets in 2015 for less than is owed Harvin. Agree with you here...Golden should have been pursued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscode1 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Also, the Jets have demonstrated they are unwilling and unable to draft competent WRs. I hope they don't just think the WR position is solved and bring in more legit WR talent instead of just expecting Enunwa or Evans to battle for a spot next year. The Jets front office is absolutely terrible at drafting an offense...the last decent skill player we drafted that was more than a JAG was Santana Moss...whole scouting departments needs new people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Agree with you here...Golden should have been pursued. James Jones, emmanuel sanders, golden tate, desean jackson, we really should've gone harder for a lot of these WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The Jets front office is absolutely terrible at drafting an offense...the last decent skill player we drafted that was more than a JAG was Santana Moss...whole scouting departments needs new people. You mean you don't think Terry Bradway and Jeff Bauer are doing a good job? We've only never had a competent offense the entire time they've been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 that's the point, there is no plan. Idzik claims to have a plan but doesn't - here is the perfect example: Jets bring Vontae Davis in for a visit. Davis signs with Ind, Jets have no backup plan. Jets sign career journeyman Dimitri Patterson and then reach for McDougal in the draft. So, what was the plan at CB? If the master plan was to spend more $$ at WR then why not sign Golden Tate or Desean Jackson in addition to Decker? Both Tate and Jackson could have been signed in the off-season and played 16 games with the NYJ. Instead, Idzik used a draft pick + the same amount of $$ to get 9 games from Harvin after the season is out of reach. If he had signed DJax or Tate they would be Jets in 2015 for less than is owed Harvin. I disagree. I think targeting players you want, while not overpaying for players you don't, and looking toward a finite point in the future when you'll need to have those players in position to contribute is the very definition of having a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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