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John Idzik - King hypocrite


LionelRichie
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I know you didn't ask me, but IMO a smart "master plan" would consist of 1) losing as many games as possible this season in order to a) get the best draft position possible and potentially pick a franchise QB, and b ) justify firing Wrecks & co.; and 2) spend as little as possible this season in order to splurge next season (with a new coaching staff in place) on as many young studs as possible (e.g. give Mo a long-term deal, sign a true #1 WR like Demariyus or Dez long-term, etc) who will be in the plans for years to come.

I've been one to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt more than most here have, but this move makes no sense whatsoever to me. Like I said, at the beginning at the year, or if we're something like 3-4 now, then okay, I get it; at 1-6, it's stupefying.

If Harvin got cut at the end of the season, and Idzik gave him a 4 year, $32 million dollar deal, would that have made more sense?

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So Idzik should pass up the chance to get a real playmaker on a team that desperately needs one because it would be inconsistent with his prior statements?  He had a plan going into this season, several injuries and other things have occurred and now he's making adjustments.  It's supposed to be about what's good for the team, not consistency with previous statements.  Nobody cares about that.

The season is over...Yes in my opinion, he should have passed at this point unless they plan to bring him back next season......I don't know about you, but I would personally rather have a 1-15 season than another 8-8 or 7-9....that would absolutely guaranteed that Geno will be back...They might bring him back with 5 wins....It may save Ryan's job and will destroy yet another draft....No more QB projects please..Let's try to get a real one...Or give Simms a chance to prove himself...the season is lost anyway.

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If Harvin got cut at the end of the season, and Idzik gave him a 4 year, $32 million dollar deal, would that have made more sense?

 

You mean if we never traded for him and he got cut by Seattle at the end of the season, or if we cut him and then re-signed him?

 

Either way, I'd be okay with signing him to a deal like that (although with his attitude and history, I'd hope it would be easy to get out of if need be, and I'd hope that such a deal wouldn't prevent us from signing a true #1 if we can). It would make a hell of a lot more sense than if he was a 9 game rental during a lost season. My biggest fear is that he'll end up winning us a game or 2 in a season where we should be trying to lose as much as we can (which is what I assumed Idzik was trying to do before making this move, thus the reason I didn't have a problem with the lack of FA acquisitions). Maybe Woody says, "Hey! We won a few extra games once we traded for Harvin! Maybe we should keep Rex on for another season or 2!" - you know, the kind of stuff nightmares are made of.

 

Again - smart teams (2011 Colts) know what to do in these situations, and it pays dividends in the long-run; the Jets are the team that wins that meaningless last game of the season where we end up missing out on the guy we want to draft because of it, and I fear this move may facilitate that once again.

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You mean if we never traded for him and he got cut by Seattle at the end of the season, or if we cut him and then re-signed him?

Either way, I'd be okay with signing him to a deal like that (although with his attitude and history, I'd hope it would be easy to get out of if need be, and I'd hope that such a deal wouldn't prevent us from signing a true #1 if we can). It would make a hell of a lot more sense than if he was a 9 game rental during a lost season. My biggest fear is that he'll end up winning us a game or 2 in a season where we should be trying to lose as much as we can (which is what I assumed Idzik was trying to do before making this move, thus the reason I didn't have a problem with the lack of FA acquisitions). Maybe Woody says, "Hey! We won a few extra games once we traded for Harvin! Maybe we should keep Rex on for another season or 2!" - you know, the kind of stuff nightmares are made of.

Again - smart teams (2011 Colts) know what to do in these situations, and it pays dividends in the long-run; the Jets are the team that wins that meaningless last game of the season where we end up missing out on the guy we want to draft because of it, and I fear this move may facilitate that once again.

Thing is, Andrew Luck isn't in this draft, so even if Harvin returns a punt that gets us to 5-11, it's not the end of the world. I think we were going to pick between 5 and 10 anyway.

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You mean if we never traded for him and he got cut by Seattle at the end of the season, or if we cut him and then re-signed him?

 

Either way, I'd be okay with signing him to a deal like that (although with his attitude and history, I'd hope it would be easy to get out of if need be, and I'd hope that such a deal wouldn't prevent us from signing a true #1 if we can). It would make a hell of a lot more sense than if he was a 9 game rental during a lost season. My biggest fear is that he'll end up winning us a game or 2 in a season where we should be trying to lose as much as we can (which is what I assumed Idzik was trying to do before making this move, thus the reason I didn't have a problem with the lack of FA acquisitions). Maybe Woody says, "Hey! We won a few extra games once we traded for Harvin! Maybe we should keep Rex on for another season or 2!" - you know, the kind of stuff nightmares are made of.

 

Again - smart teams (2011 Colts) know what to do in these situations, and it pays dividends in the long-run; the Jets are the team that wins that meaningless last game of the season where we end up missing out on the guy we want to draft because of it, and I fear this move may facilitate that once again.

 

 

Thing is, Andrew Luck isn't in this draft, so even if Harvin returns a punt that gets us to 5-11, it's not the end of the world. I think we were going to pick between 5 and 10 anyway.

 

The other thing is, the Colts really were that bad.  They didn't just quit.  If the Jets are really that bad, Percy Harvin isn't going to change that.

 

I think the Jets are going to win a handful of games anyway... They schedule was laid out that they played a bunch of better teams early on.  Now they're playing a lot lesser competition.  Could easily win 5-6 of the next 9, not just because of Harvin.

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The COMPETETION mantra was seriously called into question to me when the new GM followed the failed old GMs childish pact to give Rex one pick..which we used on his sons college buddy instead of drafting a real developmental QB a round or 2 earlier

While I think it's silly to think there is competition at every single position in a business where people are making 10's of millions of dollars, the competition mantra held true when Salas beat out Hill and Garrett Mcintire was let go for IK I believe. He also cut half of his own draft picks for one reason or another. It's not completely invalid. 

The Geno /Vick argument is of no interest to me. I'm happier to see what we have in a young top prospect 2nd rd pick than to see if an inconsistent injury prone vet can find a miracle. 

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That is exactly my point on Idzik's hypocrisy and his inconsistent message as a GM. 

 

Desean Jackson was too expensive at 3 yrs / $24M but Harvin at 10M / yr + a pick is a "great deal".   I don't understand what Idzik is doing and it now looks like he doesn't have a plan and is just making random moves.   

And signing Jackson means you don;t sign Johnson. Makes a world of sense. Only thing is trading way draft picks Idzik might make isn't a big deal because he'll blow them anyway. Further as to "rebuilding the scouting department"-Terry Bradway has been here since 2000 in some front office capacity or other-Gm or chief of scouting. And he's still here. 

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Thing is, Andrew Luck isn't in this draft, so even if Harvin returns a punt that gets us to 5-11, it's not the end of the world. I think we were going to pick between 5 and 10 anyway.

Clownboy wants to pick number 1. Anything else and the season is a failure. Kind of funny actually.

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Thing is, Andrew Luck isn't in this draft, so even if Harvin returns a punt that gets us to 5-11, it's not the end of the world. I think we were going to pick between 5 and 10 anyway.

 

Big difference between drafting #5 and drafting #10 though. Even if a franchise QB is off the board (or if you don't think there's one in this class to begin with), drafting #5 means you likely have a shot at a franchise LT like Peat, or a potential #1 WR like Cooper, while drafting #10 means those types are out of reach. That hypothetical Harvin returned punt could have ramifications that effect the franchise for years to come.

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This is very true.

 

Honestly, Milliner is the biggest disappointment.  But, he was sitting there, the top player at an obvious need... What do you do there?  Even with his injury history, you have to take him.  Problem is, I don't think he plays again, at least not in any meaningful way, and the Jets need a CB or two again.  

 

 

You know, I have not even been following Milliner.  Did he shred the Achilles, or just strain it?

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It's only not good for the team at 1-6 if your priority is draft positioning.  It's possible the Jets aren't playing for draft positioning.  I agree you shouldn't be buyers at this point, but at the same time, if you can get a player of this caliber for this compensation, and you plan on keeping him around, it's a great move.

 

The overall strategy has always been clear.  Money isn't a huge issue if it's one year money.  Vontae Davis was not 1 year money.  Revis was NEVER going to happen.  NEVER.  The fact that he signed with NE within an hour of being released is evidence enough of that.  The fact that one of the members of team Revis tweeted it within 15 minutes should tell you everything you need to know.

 

The main strategy has been to build through the draft, and bring in players who are either one year rentals or you want on the team for the long term.  I'm not sure how many guys the Jets passed on that you'd want on the team for the long term.  I think Vontae Davis may be the only one.  And, that's a guy that went back to his original team, who is a contender.  So, I don't think you can destroy the GM for that one.

 

The biggest fault of Idzik is that these early drafts seem to be a mess.  It's possible that this is a problem that will persist.  But that doesn't mean that the strategy is wrong or that he is a hypocrite.

 

 

the thing about Idzik is that he had a plan.  I am not sure Tanny ever had a plan, per se.  Now maybe Idzik's plan has not gone according to plan( yuk yuk), but I am sure a codicil to his--- and to any GMs --plan, is that if a really talented guy were to become available at a ridiculous price, you jump on it.  Just my humble opinion.  I see no hypocrisy in this

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I disagree. I think targeting players you want, while not overpaying for players you don't, and looking toward a finite point in the future when you'll need to have those players in position to contribute is the very definition of having a plan.

 

I don't see it.   What is the plan at QB?   Why are we looking at a rebuild in year 3 of the Idzik errror?  

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Despite all his warts, I do not see how anyone could pass on that deal for Harvin.  A 6th that could turn into a 4th if he pans out is a no-brainer.  And who knows, a change of scenery could make him sane and healthy.

100% this. Plus, Tate looks like a dbag. I want to hit him too.

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the thing about Idzik is that he had a plan.  I am not sure Tanny ever had a plan, per se.  Now maybe Idzik's plan has not gone according to plan( yuk yuk), but I am sure a codicil to his--- and to any GMs --plan, is that if a really talented guy were to become available at a ridiculous price, you jump on it.  Just my humble opinion.  I see no hypocrisy in this

 

10M / year is a ridiculous price alright, just ridiculously high.   

 

Idizik is a walking contradiction and I don't see why the rest of the Jet fans see that emperor john has no clothes.    He has been  a total disaster from the start and is showing no signs of improvement. 

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You're probably the only one under the impression that he's on the team next year under his current contract.  Harvin is 26.  If he plays well, they make a new deal.  If he doesn't, we send him packing and a 6th round pick.  I have no idea where 17M for one season comes from.

 

I'm sorry you feel lied to.  I am.

 

  This makes no sense at all.  If Harvin plays well,  what world do people live in where he accepts less money?

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Opportunities dont care about your schedule. Whether harvin thing works out or not, it is a good thing that idzik has shown he can actually react to opportunities rather than dilther away when faced with a bidding war, which is where his nickname "the glacier" came from this offseason.

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  This makes no sense at all.  If Harvin plays well,  what world do people live in where he accepts less money?

 

I agree, even if he doesn't play well - he's likely going to make the Jets cut him and hit the open market.

 

The only scenario I can see where he would accept less money is if Jets restructure this season with a large amount of guaranteed money - which would be VERY risky with a guy like this.

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I agree, even if he doesn't play well - he's likely going to make the Jets cut him and hit the open market.

 

The only scenario I can see where he would accept less money is if Jets restructure this season with a large amount of guaranteed money - which would be VERY risky with a guy like this.

Dday was pretty risky, too

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This makes no sense at all. If Harvin plays well, what world do people live in where he accepts less money?

The world in which his market value was set by a 4th round pick max and he'd have to play at elite level to get a deal anywhere close to what he's got now.

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this may be a good move for the team but certainly not at 1-6.   How about 5M for a backup QB?    How about 3M for a journeyman, malcontent QB who played 15 games in 3 seasons?   

 

If cap space is no longer important why didn't big John pay for Vontae Davis or Revis?     This team is 3-4 at worst with either of those 2 players. 

Revis was never coming back.  3 Important Reasons.... 1.  the owner got tired of his  holdout antics for more salary ( wanted 16 million)

                                                                                         2.  He was injured and there was uncertainty whether he could be his old self

                                                                                         3.  dissed the Jets after he left

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The Jets just cant draft skill position guys for whatever reason. Watching Ellington last night...it's impossible anyone could have thought Saunders was a better player than he was.

 

This is totally out of the blue...but I don't think the Jets scout enough players. They pin point guys and the round they want to take them in and roll with it. 

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The Jets just cant draft skill position guys for whatever reason. Watching Ellington last night...it's impossible anyone could have thought Saunders was a better player than he was.

 

This is totally out of the blue...but I don't think the Jets scout enough players. They pin point guys and the round they want to take them in and roll with it. 

 

It's like they need to show everyone how smart they are.   Hill over Jeffreys, Saunders over Ellington....it makes no sense at all and it's been going on for longer than just Big John's tenure. 

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I don't really know for sure either.  Just thinking that you don't often hear much about guys coming back strong from either.  Though, HGH and whatnot has changed things.  Add that to Milliner's absurdly long injury history and I just don't have much faith we see him again, at least not in any meaningful way.

 

 

not that he's a world class athlete but my uncle blew out both of his Achilles and was still able to compete in triathlons after recovery

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That is exactly my point on Idzik's hypocrisy and his inconsistent message as a GM. 

 

Desean Jackson was too expensive at 3 yrs / $24M but Harvin at 10M / yr + a pick is a "great deal".   I don't understand what Idzik is doing and it now looks like he doesn't have a plan and is just making random moves.   

 

Chinese to some here.

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do you think that he is going to renegotiate out of the goodness of his heart? or will big John say pretty please?

He will get cut, just like the Seahawks were going to cut him and just like the Pats will cut Revis, and then they'll have decided whether or not to re-sign him. He will sign a market-value contract at that point. He just found out that his value is in the 4th-6th round.

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Chinese to some here.

Harvin won't play next yr for 10 mil...hell re sign with us for the 4 yr 30 mil range with guaranteed money up front. Then he'll make it rain at a scrip club. Ever body know I lick da scrip club.

The earlier posts about us needing multiple CBs is scary because they are true. Milliner is done and we need more CBs. They better go free agency for CBs cause I really don't want to see another top 10 bust of a CB again.

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