John Idzik Ripped On Air

[MatthewPLP]

Where is that post of all the wideouts that were picked along with the 7 players that can be labeled as busts and we somehow ended up with 4 of the 7 on the DEEP class of wide outs..

[T0mShane]

It can lead you to that conclusion because that's the conclusion you want to come to. There are plenty of examples of (leaked) players that were taken that Ryan didn't want. From Milliner to Hill to Geno. Those are a few pretty instrumental picks in the recent demise and general decline of high level talent. 

 

I think it's valid when I see the result of 12 picks (yes, most of them late picks) from a can't-miss draft class. He's the GM. They are his draft picks.

 

Though at least one will survive the season, most likely, neither has earned it. If he can't make picks without his HC, after just replacing the whole scouting staff (except Bradway), then he's not bringing enough to the table as a GM just as Ryan isn't bringing enough to the table as a HC.

 

I'm just being fair. 

 

 

When you say "recent demise of high level talent," how are you defining "recent"?

[Matt39]

When you say "recent demise of high level talent," how are you defining "recent"?

 

Rex has no clue on how to build a roster either...he lucked out inheriting a locker room that were big enough boys to put in the effort necessary off the field and also police the locker room without having to be pushed or belittled.That slowly went away. Mangini overly stressed finding guys who were coachable and lived, breathed football...but that transition from him to Rex worked because there was talent...and they werent me guys.

[Sperm Edwards]

Where is that post of all the wideouts that were picked along with the 7 players that can be labeled as busts and we somehow ended up with 4 of the 7 on the DEEP class of wide outs..

 

I kind of get my draft summaries from this place (for better or worse) so I usually hold off on commenting about how great or horrible a draft was until afterwards. I probably make some positive comments some years, but it's more that I want it to be a good pick than thinking it was a good pick, because I really don't know. 

So for me, I'll at least wait until seeing a full camp of them (or a full supply of camp reports, I guess). Really the most promising was the guy who was expected to be too raw to use this year. And that's all that gave him the benefit of the doubt. Then he roughs up a hooker in his hotel room. The other WR we drafted got IR'd because it was that or cut him. Saunders was drafted to be a punt returner not a WR. Hope that maybe he could take Kerley's place so we didn't need to re-sign him for millions, but the primary reason he was drafted was to be a return specialist. I think they felt that, with 12 picks, they could devote one to special teams. Especially after the problems last year returning punts. 

 

I can get past waiting on a WR a bit for a couple of reasons. First, we used a high enough pick on a receiver. Amaro wasn't a guy drafted in hopes he turns into Heath Miller; he's a guy you hope turns into Jimmy Graham (even Jimmy Graham lite). So we did go receiver early. The other reason is that this was a deep WR draft. So in a deep draft you (theoretically) don't need to burn a high pick because there are plenty of them available. To whiff so badly when we needed someone NOW is a bad combo. Need someone now, you draft early. Want to take advantage of draft class depth and go with a lower percentage pick, then you have to pick up a more secure veteran to head into the season with. As it stood, we entered the season (again) with only 1 legitimate outside WR.

If it's a position that you're clearly targeting in the draft, then target it early. If you're going to play the numbers, then you have to have a better veteran in place because even if they eventually pan out, those lower round picks may take longer. They're expected to be less polished than the first or second round guys.

I don't know. I'm just glad he didn't blow through all $20M+ of extra room on a lost season with no superbowl-level QB like we did with Sanchez. We'd have won more games but it still wouldn't matter in the end.

[Matt39]

 

I kind of get my draft summaries from this place (for better or worse) so I usually hold off on commenting about how great or horrible a draft was until afterwards. I probably make some positive comments some years, but it's more that I want it to be a good pick than thinking it was a good pick, because I really don't know. 

So for me, I'll at least wait until seeing a full camp of them (or a full supply of camp reports, I guess). Really the most promising was the guy who was expected to be too raw to use this year. And that's all that gave him the benefit of the doubt. Then he roughs up a hooker in his hotel room. The other WR we drafted got IR'd because it was that or cut him. Saunders was drafted to be a punt returner not a WR. Hope that maybe he could take Kerley's place so we didn't need to re-sign him for millions, but the primary reason he was drafted was to be a return specialist. I think they felt that, with 12 picks, they could devote one to special teams. Especially after the problems last year returning punts. 

 

I can get past waiting on a WR a bit for a couple of reasons. First, we used a high enough pick on a receiver. Amaro wasn't a guy drafted in hopes he turns into Heath Miller; he's a guy you hope turns into Jimmy Graham (even Jimmy Graham lite). So we did go receiver early. The other reason is that this was a deep WR draft. So in a deep draft you (theoretically) don't need to burn a high pick because there are plenty of them available. To whiff so badly when we needed someone NOW is a bad combo. Need someone now, you draft early. Want to take advantage of draft class depth and go with a lower percentage pick, then you have to pick up a more secure veteran to head into the season with. As it stood, we entered the season (again) with only 1 legitimate outside WR.

If it's a position that you're clearly targeting in the draft, then target it early. If you're going to play the numbers, then you have to have a better veteran in place because even if they eventually pan out, those lower round picks may take longer. They're expected to be less polished than the first or second round guys.

I don't know. I'm just glad he didn't blow through all $20M+ of extra room on a lost season with no superbowl-level QB like we did with Sanchez. We'd have won more games but it still wouldn't matter in the end.

 

Thing is if you're going to use the 4th round to draft a punt returner...he better make the ******* team lol. That in itself is borderline fire worthy.

 

Everyone's pointing to Amaro as a win...but I'm still not seeing it. Everything about his game looks awkward and he cant really catch.

[Sperm Edwards]

When you say "recent demise of high level talent," how are you defining "recent"?

No particular time frame in mind for the "gotcha" that you're fishing for. Hill was from 3 drafts ago. Smith and Milliner from 2 drafts ago.

[Integrity28]

Bravo - even a blind squirrel gets lucky and finds a nut and a broken clock is right twice a day, but i have no use for a blind squirrel or a broken clock.

You aren't even using those terms in the right context, lol

[Sperm Edwards]

Thing is if you're going to use the 4th round to draft a punt returner...he better make the ******* team lol. That in itself is borderline fire worthy.

 

Everyone's pointing to Amaro as a win...but I'm still not seeing it. Everything about his game looks awkward and he cant really catch.

I think he can catch. I think he's still a little raw and has too much on his mind on every play.

It's no accident guys don't typically peak as rookies. They tend to get better when drills they've worked on for a year (or a couple of years) eventually become 2nd nature. He was a 2nd round pick not a 2nd overall pick.

No argument from me on Saunders.

[Cyberjet]

You aren't even using those terms in the right context, lol

Not hard to get the context - Francesca

[Integrity28]

Not hard to get the context - Francesca

 

Those are terms associated with predicting something right. Francessa didn't predict anything here, he was simply providing a reactive point of view to Idzik's press conference. Makes no sense at all to say "broken clock is right twice a day". At all.

[Integrity28]

Thing is if you're going to use the 4th round to draft a punt returner...he better make the ******* team lol. That in itself is borderline fire worthy.

 

Everyone's pointing to Amaro as a win...but I'm still not seeing it. Everything about his game looks awkward and he cant really catch.

 

I think Amaro will be good. People seem to forget the following:

 

 

1. He's a rookie TE, a position notorious for needing time to develop

2. He was a 2nd rounder, not a top 10 TE, even Vernon Davis needed time to "get it" but he was worth the wait

3. He's part of what may be the most dysfunctional offense in football, he might be much further along the curve with NFL players around him - right now we've only got 4 relevant NFL players on offense: Decker, Brick, Ivory and Mangold

[Cyberjet]

Those are terms associated with predicting something right. Francessa didn't predict anything here, he was simply providing a reactive point of view to Idzik's press conference. Makes no sense at all to say "broken clock is right twice a day". At all.

Oh boy - when a broken clock is right twice a day it isn't predicting. When a loudmouth keeps saying the Jets suck year after year (like a broken record !)every now and then he will get it right.

[GimmeShelter]

Well done Mike...well done and true.

 

What I would love now is to hear from all our GM wannabe's who attacked any poster who questioned dear John's "plan" last off season. They so eloquently and at great length explained to us how we now had a real GM who was delivering the blueprint for building a team with their favorite psuedo GM catch pharse..."long term success"  in mind.

 

They lectured us on our need for patience. They explained to us the benefits of CAP freedom and marveled at John as if doing away with the bad contracts of equally bad players was some amazing stroke of magic that only the man who simply had a office in Seattle could provide us.  When asked about John's qualifications we were directed to review how Seattle built their team although John had very little, if anything to do with how that team was constructed.

 

At 1-7 the preachers of last off season have grown quiet. There are less posts explaining to us the wonders of "the plan".

 

Where are you gents?

[Matt39]

Well done Mike...well done and true.

 

What I would love now is to hear from all our GM wannabe's who attacked any poster who questioned dear John's "plan" last off season. They so eloquently and at great length explained to us how we now had a real GM who was delivering the blueprint for building a team with their favorite psuedo GM catch pharse..."long term success"  in mind.

 

They lectured us on our need for patience. They explained to us the benefits of CAP freedom and marveled at John as if doing away with the bad contracts of equally bad players was some amazing stroke of magic that only the man who simply had a office in Seattle could provide us.  When asked about John's qualifications we were directed to review how Seattle built their team although John had very little, if anything to do with how that team was constructed.

 

At 1-7 the preachers of last off season have grown quiet. There are less posts explaining to us the wonders of "the plan".

 

Where are you gents?

 

I dont think anyone in their right mind could have seen the Jets botching these two drafts that badly. The actual blueprint is right....the execution has been laughable. Add on the dopey things the Jets marketing team tries to sell to the fan base...the whole operation just comes off as amateur hour. And then yesterdays press conference....good grief.

[T0mShane]

Well done Mike...well done and true.

What I would love now is to hear from all our GM wannabe's who attacked any poster who questioned dear John's "plan" last off season. They so eloquently and at great length explained to us how we now had a real GM who was delivering the blueprint for building a team with their favorite psuedo GM catch pharse..."long term success" in mind.

They lectured us on our need for patience. They explained to us the benefits of CAP freedom and marveled at John as if doing away with the bad contracts of equally bad players was some amazing stroke of magic that only the man who simply had a office in Seattle could provide us. When asked about John's qualifications we were directed to review how Seattle built their team although John had very little, if anything to do with how that team was constructed.

At 1-7 the preachers of last off season have grown quiet. There are less posts explaining to us the wonders of "the plan".

Where are you gents?

Hi.

[Cyberjet]

Seattle Seahawks:

2010:7-9

2011:7-9

2012:11-5

2013:13-3 SB champs

You guys would have wanted to blow it up, print billboards in 2011 and no SB. Need 3-4 years - that is what is meant by patience.

[Cyberjet]

And it's no coincidence they got their QB situation righted in 2011. The QB is the key.

[GimmeShelter]

Seattle Seahawks:

2010:7-9

2011:7-9

2012:11-5

2013:13-3 SB champs

You guys would have wanted to blow it up, print billboards in 2011 and no SB. Need 3-4 years - that is what is meant by patience.

Yeah you're right....this team has 11-5 in 2015 written all over it.

[jgb]

Yeah you're right....this team has 11-5 in 2015 written all over it.

 

we'd be lucky to get 11 wins in 2015-2016 combined

[ylekram]

I dont think anyone in their right mind could have seen the Jets botching these two drafts that badly. The actual blueprint is right....the execution has been laughable. Add on the dopey things the Jets marketing team tries to sell to the fan base...the whole operation just comes off as amateur hour. And then yesterdays press conference....good grief.

still with this sh*t? the blue print was never right. not for 2014 anyways. idzik needed to fill the holes in this team with legit, nfl talent, and THEN  build thru the draft. you couldn't enter the draft with as many holes that still needed to be filled like idzik did.

[Integrity28]

Oh boy - when a broken clock is right twice a day it isn't predicting. When a loudmouth keeps saying the Jets suck year after year (like a broken record !)every now and then he will get it right.

 

The act of saying "the Jets will suck this year" is a prediction, a hypothesis, a guess... whatever you want to call it. It is an idiom most commonly associated with someone guessing right for a change.

 

That is beside the point though... He wasn't saying the Jets suck. He was saying debunking the crap Idzik was saying, pointing out the logic flaws, and the red flags. He was spot on. Did you even listen to it? 

[ylekram]

Well done Mike...well done and true.

 

What I would love now is to hear from all our GM wannabe's who attacked any poster who questioned dear John's "plan" last off season. They so eloquently and at great length explained to us how we now had a real GM who was delivering the blueprint for building a team with their favorite psuedo GM catch pharse..."long term success"  in mind.

 

They lectured us on our need for patience. They explained to us the benefits of CAP freedom and marveled at John as if doing away with the bad contracts of equally bad players was some amazing stroke of magic that only the man who simply had a office in Seattle could provide us.  When asked about John's qualifications we were directed to review how Seattle built their team although John had very little, if anything to do with how that team was constructed.

 

At 1-7 the preachers of last off season have grown quiet. There are less posts explaining to us the wonders of "the plan".

 

Where are you gents?

all but disappeared or flip flopped

[Integrity28]

Seattle Seahawks:

2010:7-9

2011:7-9

2012:11-5

2013:13-3 SB champs

You guys would have wanted to blow it up, print billboards in 2011 and no SB. Need 3-4 years - that is what is meant by patience.

 

Stop citing what the Seahawks did as though it is an easily repeated formula. You sound ridiculous. Especially when you consider we are trending towards 8-8, then 1-15.

[ylekram]

And it's no coincidence they got their QB situation righted in 2011. The QB is the key.

a gm that knows what he is doing is the key

[Matt39]

lol...

 

http://www.firejohnidzik.com/

[jgb]

I think Amaro will be good. People seem to forget the following:

 

 

1. He's a rookie TE, a position notorious for needing time to develop

2. He was a 2nd rounder, not a top 10 TE, even Vernon Davis needed time to "get it" but he was worth the wait

3. He's part of what may be the most dysfunctional offense in football, he might be much further along the curve with NFL players around him - right now we've only got 4 relevant NFL players on offense: Decker, Brick, Ivory and Mangold

 

how the hell does anyone forget he is a rookie and a second rounder and that the jets offense sucks? do you really think you have some great insight that no one else here is capable of?

[RSJ]

Yeah you're right....this team has 11-5 in 2015 written all over it.

Lmao.

[GimmeShelter]

Hi.

lol....you're still da man TS.

[Integrity28]

Well done Mike...well done and true.

 

What I would love now is to hear from all our GM wannabe's who attacked any poster who questioned dear John's "plan" last off season. They so eloquently and at great length explained to us how we now had a real GM who was delivering the blueprint for building a team with their favorite psuedo GM catch pharse..."long term success"  in mind.

 

They lectured us on our need for patience. They explained to us the benefits of CAP freedom and marveled at John as if doing away with the bad contracts of equally bad players was some amazing stroke of magic that only the man who simply had a office in Seattle could provide us.  When asked about John's qualifications we were directed to review how Seattle built their team although John had very little, if anything to do with how that team was constructed.

 

At 1-7 the preachers of last off season have grown quiet. There are less posts explaining to us the wonders of "the plan".

 

Where are you gents?

 

I'm here. 

 

And I absolutely stand by preaching patience and applauding what Idzik did in year 1. He got the cap right. He got us some cheap JAGs to fill holes, but also netted a lot of comp picks. He got us Ivory. He put together what looked like a stellar draft. The best corner, the best defensive player overall, a great value (we all thought) on Geno, and guys that were capable of contributing on the OL and at FB in their rookie years. As is the case with any patient, rational person, you expect those rookies that flashed in year 1 to look better in year 2. That hasn't been the case. Some of them may be having sophomore slumps, who knows. Add to that 1 good move in free agency (Decker) and 1 good draft pick (Amaro in round 2) out of 12 picks, and the reality that nothing was done to protect us against Geno sucking (Vick was a garbage signing as I said from the day it happened), and too many garbage contracts were given to garbage players, while we failed to bid high enough for difference makers.

 

I understand it's the internet, and many of you can't grasp the concept of "wait and see" because there is a desperate need to pick a side, dig in your heels and fight that fight no matter how illogical or how much you don't believe in it. That said, intelligent human beings tend to assess things in an ongoing manner, weighing all variables and possibilities to reach a conclusion. In doing that, it was very easy to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt after his first year. 

 

Obviously, things have changed now.

 

At this point, all that is really happening is the instant gratification crowd is beating their chest because their complaints from year 1 - which were beyond ******* stupid - have been justified in hindsight due to the down year. In other words, you all are a bunch of broken clocks. GFY

[Cyberjet]

Why does it sound ridiculous. I give you a concrete example of success from a system the Jets GM came from and this is ridiculous as oppossed to building billboards and reciting over and over 'Idzik sucks' 'Idziot'.

Chances are that the Jets won't duplicate what Seattle did but that is the blueprint as opposed to say the Oakland Raiders model of building a team. Seattle pre 2012 was being skewered, Carroll just another avg HC as he was with the Pats. If this were the Jets you guys would have crucified Carroll and the FO (who up to then proved nothing)

[Integrity28]

how the hell does anyone forget he is a rookie and a second rounder and that the jets offense sucks? do you really think you have some great insight that no one else here is capable of?

 

Look around this site at the short-sighted moronic things people complain about in their miserable, impatient stupors... then ask yourself the bold question again.

 

As for the other question... Yes. Absolutely.

[Matt39]

still with this sh*t? the blue print was never right. not for 2014 anyways. idzik needed to fill the holes in this team with legit, nfl talent, and THEN  build thru the draft. you couldn't enter the draft with as many holes that still needed to be filled like idzik did.

 

Not overspending on guys I agree with and not having an expensive roster with a crappy QB...I like this philosophy. However...handing out one year deals to big names that can't play anymore is dumb. You cant build a team filling half the roster with bad FA's on one year deals...especially when you cant draft. Chris Johnson and Michael Vick are Jets because no one else wanted them. Dmitiri Patterson's out of the league. Ford is out of the league. Willie Colon probably would be a fringe roster player...Calvin Pace etc, etc.

[Integrity28]

Why does it sound ridiculous. I give you a concrete example of success from a system the Jets GM came from and this is ridiculous as oppossed to building billboards and reciting over and over 'Idzik sucks' 'Idziot'.

Chances are that the Jets won't duplicate what Seattle did but that is the blueprint as opposed to say the Oakland Raiders model of building a team. Seattle pre 2012 was being skewered, Carroll just another avg HC as he was with the Pats. If this were the Jets you guys would have crucified Carroll and the FO (who up to then proved nothing)

 

Seriously.

[RSJ]

I'm here. 

 

And I absolutely stand by preaching patience and applauding what Idzik did in year 1. He got the cap right. He got us some cheap JAGs to fill holes, but also netted a lot of comp picks. He got us Ivory. He put together what looked like a stellar draft. The best corner, the best defensive player overall, a great value (we all thought) on Geno, and guys that were capable of contributing on the OL and at FB in their rookie years. As is the case with any patient, rational person, you expect those rookies that flashed in year 1 to look better in year 2. That hasn't been the case. Some of them may be having sophomore slumps, who knows. Add to that 1 good move in free agency (Decker) and 1 good draft pick (Amaro in round 2) out of 12 picks, and the reality that nothing was done to protect us against Geno sucking (Vick was a garbage signing as I said from the day it happened), and too many garbage contracts were given to garbage players, while we failed to bid high enough for difference makers.

 

I understand it's the internet, and many of you can't grasp the concept of "wait and see" because there is a desperate need to pick a side, dig in your heels and fight that fight no matter how illogical or how much you don't believe in it. That said, intelligent human beings tend to assess things in an ongoing manner, weighing all variables and possibilities to reach a conclusion. In doing that, it was very easy to give Idzik the benefit of the doubt after his first year. 

 

Obviously, things have changed now.

 

At this point, all that is really happening is the instant gratification crowd is beating their chest because their complaints from year 1 - which were beyond ******* stupid - have been justified in hindsight due to the down year. In other words, you all are a bunch of broken clocks. GFY

So you thought his free agent pick ups in year one were good? The year one draft was bad from day one. Milner has not contributed yet. And yet when people pointed this out, you responded with more immature insults like always.

[T0mShane]

all but disappeared or flip flopped

Hi