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Mark Sanchez Talk - MERGED

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As I was watching the games yesterday, I knew it would be quite amusing to see how some of JN's finest would react to one mediocre game from a guy who hadn't done sh*t for the prior 3 years.  Glad to see I wasn't disappointed.

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Thing is he hadn't done sh*t for the JETS the prior 3 years. Therein lies the problem.

 

I am interested to see how he performs with a new coaching staff.

 

I had been told iw was impossible for any coach to win with Sanchez at QB. Now that will be tested

 

Who knows, it's entirely possible that Sanchez is remarkably more successful with the Eagles and/or any other future teams than he was with the Jets, but it's kind of humorous to watch people get so riled up and ready for the "I told you so"s based on one rather unremarkable partial game that was really no different than what we saw from him repeatedly throughout his entire Jets career.  Just because Geno has been an even bigger disaster doesn't change that Sanchez was an incredibly mistake-prone dumbass who occasionally showed flashes or made some big plays, and yesterday's game didn't do much to prove that any of that has changed.  Let's not forget, this is the same guy who needed to be pulled from a game for a third-stringer in order for the Jets to rally to a freakin' 7-6 victory.  There's certain things that, no matter how desperately we try, there's no excuse for blaming on anyone but the individual himself, and Sanchez has a long list of those.

 

In truth, it's just a matter of Jets fans doing what we do best, finding crap to bitch about.  There's this tendency to start changing history just so we have more excuses to hate on the same people we already have plenty of legitimate reasons to hate.  Rex is an incompetent dipsh*t all on his own, touting Sanchez for no particular reason doesn't do anything to support that, it just makes the person making the argument look ridiculous.  It's no different than the tendency of Jets fans to repeatedly change who is to credit for any successful draft pick ever made based on who it is most convenient to justify their current bitchfest.  Such as the recent surge of claims that Mangini's one unsuccessful season as a DC before becoming Jets' HC is what turned him into a genius GM in disguise and that he actually deserves credit for every bit of success ever attributed to Rex (or Tanny before him), despite his own miserable failures.  The guy was completely despised by almost every single Jets fan on the way out, but now we're supposed to tout him for crap that wasn't even his job because what, that's supposed to make Rex look worse?  It's nonsense.

 

This is just more of the same and I'll believe Sanchez is anything more than what we saw him to be over the course of 5 years when he actually gives any reason to believe that, and call me crazy but a decent performance in part of one game where he still threw 2 picks isn't quite enough for me.  The fact that such a performance is somehow deemed even worthy of such a discussion kind of says something, doesn't it?

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Face it-If Mark Sanchez proves to be "mediocre" talent at worst in this league, it leaves a bit of egg on the Jets face. It would point to coaching more than anything else, and particularly decisions to yoyo Sanchez back and forth one year with Tebow and to put Sanchez in harm's way in a meaningless pre-season game.

 

There was good and bad with Sanchez, and more bad, I understand. But the Jets did him no favors either, and it was not the best career building program they nurtured him under.

 

Again, if he succeeds this year, even in a short stretch, it is not a glowing endorsement of how the Jets handled him. 

 

I hear what you were saying and I was never one of those who bought into the nonsense that Sanchez would be out of the league in no time like some around here were claiming.  He's not particularly good, but in today's NFL he's nowhere close to the worst of what exists at the QB position.  I said from the moment there were talks of him being cut that he would have a backup job in the NFL as long as he wanted it and, if not for his history with the team and insane contract, would have even been a good fit for the Jets as their backup.  I completely agree the Tebow nonsense was a complete joke and a disaster how it was handled by the team, and that wasn't the only thing.  On the other hand, he's got plenty of failures that are completely on him which he in no way deserves any lenience on, even if he does seem to correct these issues under a different coaching staff.  While it might be further proof of Rex's incompetence, it will also further proves Sanchez's desperate need for hand-holding and inability to address issues that he should be taking care of himself, which has been noted throughout his career.  There's no excuse for spending 5 years of your career throwing every single slant pass to the back shoulder of your receivers, causing a constant string of uncatchable balls, inability to gain yards after the catch, and otherwise beaten defenders easily jumping routes on what is supposed to be the simplest pass in the NFL.

 

More than anything what I find laughable is when you see the same people contradicting themselves by completely changing who they are blaming for the same things based on how it fits their current agenda.  A couple of years ago it was all Sanchez's fault that the Jets weren't more successful under Rex, but now it's all Rex's fault that the Jets weren't more successful under Sanchez?  As difficult as it seems to grasp for a great number of Jets fans out there, it's actually possible for them to both to suck completely independent of one another.  It's actually the most likely answer to all of this, yet some refuse to accept such an idea.

 

Now I'm not saying you or your views fall into this category, but it's undoubtedly been running rampant through this thread, which was the reason for my original comments.  It's definitely a wait and see type scenario that could tell us more as time goes by, but yet here we are with a thread filled with people pounding their chests in victory because of one mediocre game that was worse than many games he had during his time with the Jets.

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Now read this and weep, Jets fans — a list of rookie wide receivers making an impact this season:

 

Sammy Watkins (Bills): 38 catches, 590 yards, five TDs

 

Mike Evans (Bucs): 32 catches, 460 yards, four TDs

 

Odell Beckham Jr. (Giants): 10 catches, 106 yards, three TDs

 

Kelvin Benjamin (Panthers): 40 catches, 589 yards, five TDs

 

Brandin Cooks (Saints): 43 catches, 470 yards, two TDs

 

Jordan Matthews (Eagles):32 catches, 313 yards, three TDs

 

Donte Moncrief (Colts): 16 catches, 216 yards, one TD

 

John Brown (Cardinals): 24 catches, 326 yards, four TDs

 

Allen Robinson (Jaguars): 43 catches, 488 yards, two TDs

 

Jarvis Landry (Dolphins): 30 catches, 301 yards, three TDs

 

Martavis Bryant (Steelers): 10 catches, 107 yards, five TDs

 

Davante Adams (Packers): 24 catches, 263 yards, two TDs

 

There's some quality reporting for you.  This list not only includes players that were already off the board before the Jets picked, but of the 12 players on it, only 4 have more receptions than Jace Amaro.

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I actually liked Rex his first couple of years. Thought it was a breath of fresh air.

 

Then came the loss to Pittsburgh in the 2nd year, and the jets were an unprepared football team. They treated NE as their Super Bowl. All my thoughts of course, but it spoke to Rex and his inability to command emotions of the team.

 

Just like himself, this team is a microcosm of their coach, seemingly undisciplined, able to do something stupid at any time, not learning from mistakes, and taking each game as the pinnacle or the abyss, not the even keel approach that is needed.

 

Rex Ryan, nice guy, but not a leader to see you to the ultimate goal.

 

I think Sanchez got caught up in this bi-polar act and it did not help.

 

Oh yeah, that Steelers game really was the beginning of the end without question and I really thought that applied to both of them.  The team's preparation for that game by Rex was unforgivable, but as was Sanchez personally handing the Steelers' 7 points in a 5 point game to close the half.  I was admittedly a supporter of both of them before that, but neither one of them ever seemed to mentally recover from that sh*t show.

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Chips kelly said the offense didn't miss a beat.

 

Really?  That's so surprising.  I totally expected him to come out and say "Sanchez?  Lol, that guy is friggin awful, we're so ****ed.  Better luck next year, amirite?"

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trust me, guys.....I'm not enjoying this. Sure, you would think that it would be a good feeling, to be proven right after you told the world that Sanchez WAS a very good QB, and a winner, when not one person would listen. But, trust me, being able to see through mass ignorance is an extremely frustrating gift....and in THIS case, it's downright painful.

Damn, I wish I was wrong......but I'm not and Lord knows I tried, but what could I do? smh So now I'm supposed to feel some sort of satisfaction because Mark Sanchez IS going to blow up before all of our suffering eyes....and there will be no where to hide for guys like Ray Lucas and Phil Simms.

Fellow Jet fans, I didn't want this to happen.

 

I've got some good news for you then, there's still absolutely no evidence to suggest you were right.

 

Feel better now, don't you?  You're welcome.

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Sanchez was better than Foles in college, if that means anything

 

Ryan Leaf was substantially better than Tom Brady in college.

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At this point I hope Sanchez is a disastrous failure tonight for really one rather simple reason, so we don't have to read any more of this mindless nonsense about what a decidedly mediocre performance supposedly means about his brilliant future.

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They just had a mic'd up thingy for the Eagles on the pregame show.  They had a spot where Foles, Sanchez and the OC were reviewing the picture stills of the game on the sidelines.  The OC is flippin through the stills and Mark with a mouth full of food taps Foles on the shoulder and says "you should try those chicken fingers, they're good".

 

So compared to eating a hotdog during an actual game this is, um... better?

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It was during an actual game, click the link I quoted myself with.

 

Yeah, I saw it after I posted that.  lol, what a friggin tard

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btw, at this point are we supposed to be praising Sanchez for leading the Eagles to a scoring drive on their first possession of the game?  It certainly was impressive.

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Lol looking pretty good so far dem weapinzzzzzzzzz

 

Oh yes, obviously a completely new player out there.  The Jets never saw Sanchez alternate between completely idiotic throws and good throws in a game for them before.

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Two drives, two scores. The two incompletions were not his fault. He's having a perfect game.

SAR I

 

You're an idiot

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not a coincidence that envy is associated with the color green

 

Is that because the green Eagles envied how sh*tty the green Jets' QB play was for all of those years with Sanchez?

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Or you're gullible.

SAR I

 

Nah, your troll game has just become incredibly weak.  And around these parts, that's saying something.

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Thinking that the Jets gave up too early on Mark Sanchez is not rocket science, not some original idea. Not everything you disagree with is "trolling".

SAR I

 

lol, thanks for making my point for me here.  What happened to you?  You've gotten to like MACPAC levels of bad.

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Didn't say it was bad. That's just you on your cross again.

 

 

The funny thing is I actually used to find this guy to be an entertaining poster in the old days even when he was roundly disliked.  Now he's just become a bad parody of not only himself, but the lamest trolls, since he's made to the move to JN.  Oh well.

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I don't know who Macpac is and I'm not trying to be dramatic. Merely voicing an opinion in the appropriate thread for such discussions. I believe the Jets may have found the franchise quarterback that's been eluding us since 1972 and ruined him. It's going to be an interesting few weeks seeing if we did or didn't make a mistake. Hey, if we were 6-3 I could care less about this. But we're not and football is ruined for 2014 so might as well enjoy fantasy football and the Mark Sanchez Revival Show while we wait for next August.

SAR I

 

That opinion is all fine and dandy, but when you're attempting to celebrate victory after every positive play while carrying on about how an awful throw on an awful read somehow isn't his fault, then it's nothing but equally as awful trolling.

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Hell of a drive there.  It would be better to watch though if we wouldn't have to now have this board filled with a week full of nonsense about how Sanchez never did such a thing as a Jet ever, because you know... Chip Kelly!

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The difference is--I guess--that he looks better in every other part of the game. He's confident, he's driving the ball downfield, his yards per attempt is way up, etc, but he still makes those 2-3 plays in a game that make you puke.

 

The truth is outside of 2012, it's not like we weren't seeing the same kind of crap out of Sanchez during his time with the Jets, which is why I didn't get all of the ranting and raving about him in recent weeks, either here or in the media.  There were plenty of moments that would make you think he actually might be worth a damn, it's just that they would always be followed by some of the most mind-numbingly stupid throws and/or decisions ever seen which, despite the best efforts of many, could not reasonably be blamed on anyone but himself.  His first two years I mostly defended Sanchez because it seemed like the actions of a young kid who was still trying to figure things out, and could potentially correct them, but enough is eventually enough and after 6 years there's no more excuses to be made, the guy is a complete dipsh*t and there's little reason to believe that's ever going to change.  6 INTs and 5 fumbles in 4 games is laughably bad.  We're literally talking Geno Smith levels of bad, at least in terms of turnovers.  Being less awful than Geno in other areas is still pretty far off from being any good.

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Btw, hes averaging 1.5 ints a game......thru 4.

 

You act as if that is something other than absolutely awful.

 

That would be on pace for 24 INTs over a 16 game season, a number not even Geno Smith hit last year.  Eli was the only player in the NFL that hit that number last season, so it is most certainly not something to celebrate.  The only player on a worse pace this year would be Blake Bortles.  That's not to mention the 1.25 fumbles Sanchez is averaging per game, which would be good for 20 over a full season.  Of course that's all being a little generous, as he hasn't even played 4 full games yet.

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Yeah, but see its after 4 games. lol so, its really meaningless. The fact is it is 6 ints and 3 of them were in garbage time. Hes 3-1, gobbling up yards, 63%........and sh*tting on the fools we have under center. Like I said, the jets forum is the only place on earth where he isn't playing well. I know its painful, but he WILL be starting next year, and then we have a long time to revisit yhis conversation.

Show me a list of qbs who have ever gone 30 for 43.......and suck. lol

 

You realize this post doesn't make any sense, right?  I mean literally none at all.  Your entire argument completely contradicts itself.

 

On one hand you're touting Sanchez for "only" throwing 1.5 INTs per game while making a point of ignoring his additional 1.25 fumbles per game, and trying to celebrate that supposed accomplishment.  Then when it is shown to you that those numbers are actually horrible, you carry on about how 4 games means nothing.  Yet in the next breath you're rambling on about how much 4 games supposedly means about the greatness of Sanchez as you only look at the specific numbers from Sanchez which make him look good, while outright ignoring those which make him look bad.  As if that wasn't laughably bad enough, your final argument is using a completion percentage from one game as some sort of evidence that Sanchez is any good.  A single game completion percentage of just under 70% while good, is hardly world beater type stuff.  Geno friggin' Smith has topped that on multiple occasions and he most certainly sucks something fierce (and that's being kind).

 

Bottom line, you've actually managed to prove yourself wrong.  Well done.

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Now let's be fair...

 

it could be Pac.

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Sanchez is averaging an interception every 24.7 pass attempts. Only four NFL quarterbacks are throwing interceptions at a higher rate this year — Geno Smith (23.3), Josh McCown (22.8), Kirk Cousins (22.7) and Blake Bortles (20.3). And all but Bortles have been benched.

 

You want to know what makes this stat even better?  That's actually not accounting for last night's game.

 

That's right, when you factor in Geno's appearance, he now actually has a lower interception rate than Sanchez this season.  If you want to be a real dick about it and look at it based on total number of dropbacks (i.e., accounting for sacks and QB runs), Geno's INT numbers get only that much better than Sanchez's.  The fumble rate is even more obscenely in Geno's favor.

 

Sanchez is simply a turnover machine and his entire career, including this season, supports that.

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I'm still try to figure out what exactly about this performance should have even slightly changed anyone's previous opinions in either direction.

 

What did this tell us?  Mark Sanchez appears to be an inconsistent performer who has some very good games, and other very bad games... welcome to 2009 everyone.

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On a side note, it's kind of amusing to see how much this thread is a near carbon copy of the Pennington/Dolphins debate circa 2008.

 

It's actually even a fairly a pretty similar layout of who falls on each side as well, outside of just a few folks who have essentially switched sides and are now ultimately relying on the same arguments they trashed in those days.

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This is all true.

Sanchez doesnt look any different to me. This is the 2010 Sanchez with more weapons and better coaching. Im just trolling those who insist that Sanchez has always been awful.

 

Yeah, despite my tendency to argue against the concept of Sanchez's supposed Philly rebirth, I believe the arguments made on both extremes are pretty idiotic.  Even when I was completely done with the guy and wanted him gone, it wasn't because he was never capable of a good game.  Until the very last day I still liked him more than Pennington.  His history with the team and laughably absurd contract were the reasons he needed to go more than anything.  I said even then that he'd have, at minimum, a backup job in the NFL for as long as he wanted it.  That's also why as much as I may disagree with them, I've mostly made a point of not arguing with those who at least have been consistent in their views on Sanchez, like our old pals Smash and Pac.  It's more the crowd who endlessly contradict themselves, on both sides, who need to be mocked for their idiocy (e.g., the "one game doesn't mean anything!!"... after the next game: "did you see that one game?!?" crowd).

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Sanchez played well in those two AFCCGs.

Rex's D sh*t the bed in both games

 

This is where you lose me completely.  Sanchez himself is quite literally responsible for the Steelers' margin of victory in that second AFC Championship game.  The Sanchez-led offense scored 17 points and Sanchez handed the Steelers' 7 points all on his own.  The Jets' defense allowed 17 points and scored 2 points of their own for the Jets, while also generating 2 additional turnovers which the Jets' offense failed to score any points off of.  The Colts game can be argued, but the Steelers' game has no reasonable argument to exonerate Sanchez and/or the offense even slightly.  That doesn't mean that the defense doesn't absolutely deserve their share of the blame as well, but no one can honestly say that an offense scoring 10 more points for their own team than they did for the opposition is anything more than a completely garbage performance.

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What you ignored in the Colts game is that Sanchez gave the Jets a lead, Rex's defense gave up a late TD in the 1st half (which was a precursor to things to come over the next 5 years for a Rex D), then Shaun Greene got hurt early in the second half, Thomas Jones was completely ineffective thereafter and Sanchez could not keep up with Peyton scoring at will against Rex's D.

 

As to the Steelers game, you completely ignored the fact that the Steelers ran all over the Jets to start the game and controlled the time of possession in the first half building a lead.  Then Schitty calls an empty backfield against the best defense in the NFL and DBrick gets turnstiled which leads to the Sanchez sack and fumble.  However, Sanchez brought the team back in the second half.  To claim that his TDs were when the game was "out of reach" is preposterous.  The Jets immediately came back in that game and were in 5 points with a chance to win the game if Rex's D could get the ball back.  Of course, Rex's D failed on the biggest drive of Rex's career and the rest is history.

 

 

I'd ask you to refer back to your own posts from the ACM era when you try to seriously write things like this.  There's a whole lot of excuses being made for the same one guy in this post of yours.  That should tell you something.

 

Again, I'm not amongst the "Sanchez was the worst QB EVER!" crowd, but he was pure crap in that Steelers game.

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Very different.. Pennington was an aging QB whose shoulder was hanging on for dear life, but he had heart, was accurate, good leader, able to win some games (which made him a stud with the Jets)

Jet fans were down on him because he could hardly throw a 10 yard pass. However, he showed some grit early with Miami, and those who were against the Bret Farve experiment, started clamoring when he had success, especially when Farve got injured and he couldnt throw 5 yards.

Sanchez is a 6th overall pick, franchise QB that we sold the farm to draft and build a team around, and after unprecedented success, abruptly pissed on and ran out of town. He is now on the verge on becoming an NFL star. We are going to see his face during every commercial break, every Sunday, for years now.

So, its a little different. lol

 

The players and circumstances are obviously quite different, but the arguments being made are still nearly identical.  Lots of the same excuses coming from both sides of the argument as those that were used back then.

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you just can't help yourself can you.

 

Pennington was a damn good QB left to rot while year after year the Jets made piss poor trades to support him and never gave him the big target he needed to succeed. Then He goes to the Phins performs well but really only has 2 RB's and no one else who could really catch the football but leads his team to the playoffs and gets beat by one of the best defenses in history that totally manhandled that entire offense yet it was Penningtons fault/ Do me a favor and stop making stupid posts and dragging Pennington into every freaking QB argument you can its really getting old.

 

This year in the NFL is proving that if you get a QB talent to work with they can perform and if you take it away they struggle . Sure some QB's just plain suck but you can turn a good QB great and a decent QB good just by upping the talent level around him.    Just looke at Drew Brees they took all his pass receiving backs Like Sproles and let them go then Pierre Thomas got hurt and Drew is nothing compared to what he was when he had 150- 190 completions to his backs on a yearly basis. He's clearly not the same guy No 5 k this year or 40 TD's

 

You can make the same argument for Cam Newton who is a decent to Good QB that has the potential to be great but They took his favorite target and let him go. Would have been nice to see smith and Benjamin  and Im sure Cam would not have complained. Joe Flacco is another guy who is up and down with the talent around him this year he gets Smith and his numbers go back to being very good. You know the same Joe Flacco whom jets fans say sucks as if jets fans should even be in QB discussions about any QB.

 

This up coming week Sanchez plays the Seahawks you know its going to be tough I mean we all saw what they did to Manning and just about every other QB they play but You will be all over it if Sanchez faulters.

 

This is a team game ..... Teams win SB's not QB's ....If it were all about QB's Manning and Brady would Win the SB every year but they don't and they haven't for quite some time. Defense and ball control wins SB's ..... QB's win regular season games

 

The funny thing about this is, despite referencing him in those posts, I didn't actually even criticize the love of your life.  The truth is the circumstances are quite similar, regardless of which side you fall on with either of these particular players.  Even most individual fans' opinions seem to fall on the same side of each argument, including both you and me, with the exception of a few folks (most notably SMC and his perplexing 180 on the responsibilities of QB's).  Sorry if you find that to be such an unreasonable statement, but it's still kind of true.  Although just to clarity one item, it's those who are touting the rebirth of Sanchez who have been reliant on using single games as examples.  Regardless of anyone's opinion on Sanchez's Jets' career, the bottom line is that there's still 5 years worth of data which suggests that's the player that he is, as good or bad as you may feel that is.

 

The individual details I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on, because we're both well aware of our respective thoughts on QBs, and your excuses won't come close to changing my mind, just as I know nothing I say will change yours.  As I said earlier, I at least respect that you're consistent in your opinions on these guys, as misguided as I feel they may be, and not some contradictory troll/homer like some others in this thread.

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While I knew it was coming the second we got into the Jets/Pitt game debate, it's still always worth a chuckle to see people go from arguing about too small of a sample size to then basing their entire evaluation of a game on one drive.  The funny thing is that, while both sides of the ball absolutely struggled out of the gate, the defense actually got it together earlier in the game than the offense did, which is supported by the fact that when the defense was done allowing points to be scored, the offense was still turning the ball over and failing to score.

 

In the end, the offense scored 17 points and gave 7 to the Steelers, the defense allowed 17 points and scored 2 of their own.  That means the defense asked the offense to score 15 more points for the Jets than they did for the Steelers, while the offense asked the defense to allow the Steelers to only score 10 more points than the Jets' D themselves scored.  That anyone can look at these facts and somehow come away with the conclusion that the O in any way held up their end of the bargain in that game is really quite amazing, regardless of how you may feel about the D's performance.

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