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Mark Sanchez Talk - MERGED

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Once again the Eagles fell behind early and often and threw the balanced attack out the window, had to throw the ball everywhere and play catch-up because the special teams and the defense blew it.And once they did catch-up, and once they did get a lead, the special teams and the defense blew it a second time.That's the story of this game. But blame Mark Sanchez. Because he misses field goals, commits 13 penalties, can't get a pass rush, and gets beat for 50 yard bombs. This is the 2011 Jets all over again. Defense gets lit up early, running game can't get going, throw the ball 50 times, lose. You'd think you Jets fans would learn your lesson. After seeing Geno and Rex for two years, we know who the villain is here.SAR I

You forgot the part where Cooper has to twist his body around to catch a TD when he was wide open and should have had an easy pitch and catch.

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Really surprised the Philly papers aren't going all-in on Sanchez today. They're all killing Kelly instead.

I'm not. Every Philly fan I know bitched high and low about the Kelly hire because they're a bunch of redass meatball idiots who think Buddy Ryan is the apotheosis of football coaching. Stuff like biometric monitoring and canceling Taco Tuesday hasn't really done anything to assuage them. Sanchez, on the other hand, is the football equivalent of a three-legged puppy.

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Show me the metrics that say Mark Sanchez is a good QB.  Is it playoff wins?  Because, that's a team statistic, and then I guess Rex Grossman nearly winning a Super Bowl, would be up there in those metrics too.

 

It seems obvious now that all the "adrenalin and jumping and high-fiving" is leading you to an emotional judgment.  You acknowledge that.  However, a bad QB can win games too, big ones.  It's not like Sanchez is an invalid and he was playing on a team with the #1 defense and the #1 rushing game.  He can throw a football, he just throws it to the wrong team far too many times.

 

Ultimately, there's always been an excuse for Sanchez.  Someone's always let him down.  And, if that's the way you want to look at it, then I'm sure you will never be able to evaluate Mark Sanchez in his career.  He will always have the "incomplete" you've assigned him and you'll always have the memory of the hi-fives to hold onto as evidence that he's a good QB.  But, he's played on teams, again with top defenses and rushing games and now with what was a top offense until he got there.  Still, he was "let down."  Regardless of the fact that he "came in cold" this season, he's leading the league in turnovers since week 9.  But, there can always be an excuse if you want there to be.  Mark Sanchez continues to be one of the leagues worst starting QBs, regardless of what is happening around him.

Rex Ryan was hired and on the first day he said three things:

1. Didn't come here to kiss Bill Belichick's rings.

2. We're going to meet the President.

3. We're going to play Defense and Run the ball.

Let's look at #3. From the beginning to this very morning, Rex Ryan made it very clear that he was going to subscribe to a strategy that bucked every trend in the NFL- he was going to de-emphasize the passing game and focus on a dominant shutdown defense and ground and pound running game. Remember?

In that type of strategy, Mark Sanchez was a great quarterback. He wasn't asked to throw the ball 50 times a game. He wasn't asked to score 30 points a game. Rex always had us in nail-biting 3 point games in the fourth quarter, that was just the result of his defense and G&P strategy. And on several ocassions, Mark Sanchez was there to lead a late game drive to win it. The kid should have been a senior in college playing beer pong, and here he was being Mr. Clutch in Denver, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, and Pittsburgh. Here he was beating Manning and Brady and Rivers in playoff games. After Mark shook his newb jitters, he led us on an 18-4 run, the best stretch of winning football in team history, we were considered an elite AFC team, a Super Bowl contender.

Don't feed me stats that were compiled through Mark's first 6 games as a rookie and don't feed me stats compiled during Mark's fade when we all know that Sparano and Tebow and no replacements for Tomlinson, T-Rich, Plax, Leon sealed his fate. The Rex Ryan Strategy worked for a season-and-a-half and when it did Mark was a perfect QB for this team. But once the Defense couldn't stop a cold and the running game fell apart Rex asked Mark to throw the ball too much and with no weapons there was no chance for that either.

Rex Ryan is the problem, chief. He ruined Mark Sanchez in so many ways. Started him very young. Only gave him old FA's on their last legs, no youngsters to bond with. After a red-hot set of playoff runs, hired an OC with zero experience, flirted with Peyton Manning, and brought in Tim Tebow. When his "best in the NFL" defense started every game down 14-0 made Mark throw too much to no weapons. Sent him out late in a preseason game and got him killed. The Ryan Strategy failed and gullible Jets fans let him scapegoat Mark Sanchez. These are facts, not stats, not emotions.

SAR I

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The last 3 weeks were arguably the 3 most important games of his career.

They lose all 3 and he has  4 TDs coupled with 4 ints and 1 fumble.

For his 8 game season he has 10 ints and 7 fumbles.

Defend.

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Gotta give Mark Sanchez credit - he made the football season a little more interesting. Jet games were unwatchable with nothing to look forward to, so the closest thing to watching a "Jet" playing a meaningful game was watching Sanchez. And I found myself rooting for him, so I guess that makes me not a petty person ( I was also happy to see him shipped out of town)..

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Rex Ryan was hired and on the first day he said three things:

1. Didn't come here to kiss Bill Belichick's rings.

2. We're going to meet the President.

3. We're going to play Defense and Run the ball.

Let's look at #3. From the beginning to this very morning, Rex Ryan made it very clear that he was going to subscribe to a strategy that bucked every trend in the NFL- he was going to de-emphasize the passing game and focus on a dominant shutdown defense and ground and pound running game. Remember?

In that type of strategy, Mark Sanchez was a great quarterback. He wasn't asked to throw the ball 50 times a game. He wasn't asked to score 30 points a game. Rex always had us in nail-biting 3 point games in the fourth quarter, that was just the result of his defense and G&P strategy. And on several ocassions, Mark Sanchez was there to lead a late game drive to win it. The kid should have been a senior in college playing beer pong, and here he was being Mr. Clutch in Denver, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, and Pittsburgh. Here he was beating Manning and Brady and Rivers in playoff games. After Mark shook his newb jitters, he led us on an 18-4 run, the best stretch of winning football in team history, we were considered an elite AFC team, a Super Bowl contender.

Don't feed me stats that were compiled through Mark's first 6 games as a rookie and don't feed me stats compiled during Mark's fade when we all know that Sparano and Tebow and no replacements for Tomlinson, T-Rich, Plax, Leon sealed his fate. The Rex Ryan Strategy worked for a season-and-a-half and when it did Mark was a perfect QB for this team. But once the Defense couldn't stop a cold and the running game fell apart Rex asked Mark to throw the ball too much and with no weapons there was no chance for that either.

Rex Ryan is the problem, chief. He ruined Mark Sanchez in so many ways. Started him very young. Only gave him old FA's on their last legs, no youngsters to bond with. After a red-hot set of playoff runs, hired an OC with zero experience, flirted with Peyton Manning, and brought in Tim Tebow. When his "best in the NFL" defense started every game down 14-0 made Mark throw too much to no weapons. Sent him out late in a preseason game and got him killed. The Ryan Strategy failed and gullible Jets fans let him scapegoat Mark Sanchez. These are facts, not stats, not emotions.

SAR I

 

Even if you took out Mark's first 6 games and last season, he's still statistically one of the bottom five worst Quarterbacks to start multiple seasons in NFL history.  Do you really think he just badlucks himself into leading the league in turnovers year after year?  That it's just by complete happenstance he throws a game-changing interception or fumble at the most inopportune moment week after week? 

 

Hell, you can throw out all the stats in the world, because there's no singular stat that depicts Mark as anything but a below average to awful quarterback. 

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In the delusional world of HUGE big time diehard Iggles fan Scott from Bergen County, it's always everyone but Markey's fault..

Coaches, former coaches, untalented cast on offense, penalties, bad defense, the kicker...everybody

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In the delusional world of HUGE big time diehard Iggles fan Scott from Bergen County, it's always everyone but Markey's fault..

Coaches, former coaches, untalented cast on offense, penalties, bad defense, the kicker...everybody

Agreed..that defense looked like the JETS defense trying to hold a lead.

 

I had to leave but with 2 minutes left, didnt mark throw a pick???  THAT is inexcusable.

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The last 3 weeks were arguably the 3 most important games of his career.

They lose all 3 and he has  4 TDs coupled with 4 ints and 1 fumble.

For his 8 game season he has 10 ints and 7 fumbles.

Defend.

The Eagles have the worst OL in the NFL due to injuries. Behind that line they put a backup who missed a year himself due to an arm injury, playing a new system for which he had zero experience prior to being thrown to the fire.

The Eagles lost those games on Defense, not Offense. Like Rex Ryan, Chip Kelly only knows one side of the ball and the play of the Secondary makes that abundantly clear.

SAR I

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The Eagles have the worst OL in the NFL due to injuries. Behind that line they put a backup who missed a year himself due to an arm injury, playing a new system for which he had zero experience prior to being thrown to the fire.

The Eagles lost those games on Defense, not Offense. Like Rex Ryan, Chip Kelly only knows one side of the ball and the play of the Secondary makes that abundantly clear.

SAR I

Please ..you gotta stop. I am a SAR I supporter mostly but you cant defend Mark anymore.  A pick with 2 minutes to go??  He plays scared. 

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Please ..you gotta stop. I am a SAR I supporter mostly but you cant defend Mark anymore.  A pick with 2 minutes to go??  He plays scared. 

 

Rex's fault.

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The Eagles have the worst OL in the NFL due to injuries. Behind that line they put a backup who missed a year himself due to an arm injury, playing a new system for which he had zero experience prior to being thrown to the fire.

The Eagles lost those games on Defense, not Offense. Like Rex Ryan, Chip Kelly only knows one side of the ball and the play of the Secondary makes that abundantly clear.

SAR I

 

Oh for ****'s sake! Let it go already. 

 

You whined for years on JI over the Jets passing on Matt Leinart and now you are bemoaning the loss of Sanchez and defending his consistently sh*tty play in the most moronic way possible. 

 

Just be wrong. Just shut the **** up and accept that you have sh*tty taste in quarterbacks, dude. 

 

Mark Sanchez sucks. Be happy he's no longer doing this to us. 

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The Eagles have the worst OL in the NFL due to injuries. Behind that line they put a backup who missed a year himself due to an arm injury, playing a new system for which he had zero experience prior to being thrown to the fire.

The Eagles lost those games on Defense, not Offense. Like Rex Ryan, Chip Kelly only knows one side of the ball and the play of the Secondary makes that abundantly clear.

SAR I

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Sanchez - He looks good often and can win with a  top 5 running game and top 5 defense...But when asked to win a game for you he way too often will make that one BIG mistake that costs you the game.

 

He often looks very good - but those mistakes are the reason I'm glad he's gone and the reason he should be an NFL back-up...

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Sanchez - He looks good often and can win with a  top 5 running game and top 5 defense...But when asked to win a game for you he way too often will make that one BIG mistake that costs you the game.

 

He often looks very good - but those mistakes are the reason I'm glad he's gone and the reason he should be an NFL back-up...

 

Listen to yourselves. I could win with a top 5 running game and top 5 defense. 

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Listen to yourselves. I could win with a top 5 running game and top 5 defense.

Add in high fives and jumping and you got yourself a winner.

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Listen to yourselves. I could win with a top 5 running game and top 5 defense.

I'd pay so much money to watch this.

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Listen to yourselves. I could win with a top 5 running game and top 5 defense. 

 

Haha seriously.  What NFL QB can't hand a football off and win games 17-13?  The fact that those two qualities have to be present in a team for Sanchez not to lead them to utter disaster is what makes him a bad QB.  The good ones can perform without perfect circumstances.

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Rex Ryan was hired and on the first day he said three things:

1. Didn't come here to kiss Bill Belichick's rings.

2. We're going to meet the President.

3. We're going to play Defense and Run the ball.

Let's look at #3. From the beginning to this very morning, Rex Ryan made it very clear that he was going to subscribe to a strategy that bucked every trend in the NFL- he was going to de-emphasize the passing game and focus on a dominant shutdown defense and ground and pound running game. Remember?

In that type of strategy, Mark Sanchez was a great quarterback. He wasn't asked to throw the ball 50 times a game. He wasn't asked to score 30 points a game. Rex always had us in nail-biting 3 point games in the fourth quarter, that was just the result of his defense and G&P strategy. And on several ocassions, Mark Sanchez was there to lead a late game drive to win it. The kid should have been a senior in college playing beer pong, and here he was being Mr. Clutch in Denver, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, and Pittsburgh. Here he was beating Manning and Brady and Rivers in playoff games. After Mark shook his newb jitters, he led us on an 18-4 run, the best stretch of winning football in team history, we were considered an elite AFC team, a Super Bowl contender.

Don't feed me stats that were compiled through Mark's first 6 games as a rookie and don't feed me stats compiled during Mark's fade when we all know that Sparano and Tebow and no replacements for Tomlinson, T-Rich, Plax, Leon sealed his fate. The Rex Ryan Strategy worked for a season-and-a-half and when it did Mark was a perfect QB for this team. But once the Defense couldn't stop a cold and the running game fell apart Rex asked Mark to throw the ball too much and with no weapons there was no chance for that either.

Rex Ryan is the problem, chief. He ruined Mark Sanchez in so many ways. Started him very young. Only gave him old FA's on their last legs, no youngsters to bond with. After a red-hot set of playoff runs, hired an OC with zero experience, flirted with Peyton Manning, and brought in Tim Tebow. When his "best in the NFL" defense started every game down 14-0 made Mark throw too much to no weapons. Sent him out late in a preseason game and got him killed. The Ryan Strategy failed and gullible Jets fans let him scapegoat Mark Sanchez. These are facts, not stats, not emotions.

SAR I

 

Absolutely disagree on the bold.  Mark Sanchez is/was a turnover machine.  That's literally the worst thing you can be when running a G&P/ball-control offense.  We needed a 'game manager' and Sanchez's inability to protect the football made him a liability towards that.  While Mark Sanchez was able to lead some game winning drives, had he showed up for 60 minutes, protected the football, and helped move the offense, they wouldn't have been in those situations.  The teams those years were pretty damn good, and had the QB, regardless of strategy, been able to put up even league average performances, we'd have been a much better team.

 

If the stats, especially advanced ones, don't matter.  Then nothing really matters.  So, basically, anyone can say anything they want about him.  Fact is, six seasons, and he still has never been anything but a bottom third QB, even if he made some plays from time to time on great teams.

 

Rex Ryan is a problem.  That's right.  Where we differ is that I don't think that precludes Sanchez from also being a problem, as he still leads the league in turnovers during his time as a starter.

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Absolutely disagree on the bold.  Mark Sanchez is/was a turnover machine.  That's literally the worst thing you can be when running a G&P/ball-control offense.  

 

 

Yep.  Sanchez is a gunslinger.  Problem is, he doesn't have anything close to Favre-like upside or even Cutler/Eli-like upside for that matter.  He does the turnover thing well.  What he doesn't do is light up the scoreboard to make up for it.

 

Remember when we ran for 200+ against Buffalo and still lost because of Sanchez's 5 picks?  Yeah, not much has changed since then.

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I'd pay so much money to watch this.

 

You already have...

 

gvn6dvbo1.1.jpg

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Yep.  Sanchez is a gunslinger.  Problem is, he doesn't have anything close to Favre-like upside or even Cutler/Eli-like upside for that matter.  He does the turnover thing well.  What he doesn't do is light up the scoreboard to make up for it.

 

Remember when we ran for 200+ against Buffalo and still lost because of Sanchez's 5 picks?  Yeah, not much has changed since then.

 

 

Yup.  The downside of Favre with the upside of Orton.

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Listen to yourselves. I could win with a top 5 running game and top 5 defense. 

 

Did you read the whole post?

 

The point was he's an NFL back up...At times he looks good but shouldn't be a starter in this league..

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Mark completed 37 passes for 375 yards today. He attempted 50 passes. Any NFL team that expects a quarterback to be successful throwing the ball that much needs its head examined, having 1 pick every 50 throws would result in a great season for any NFL quarterback.

Mark threw an unfortunate interception, but it's not the reason the Eagles lost. The Eagles lost because their secondary is pathetic and their offensive line cannot run block or pass block consistently. Did Chip Kelly have the team prepared? Who is the defensive coordinator who can't scheme to cover a receiver?

Mark is doing an admirable job having been rushed into emergency duty, won some good games, lost some games. He has 11 redzone TD's with 0 interceptions, he's made a lot of key 3rd down conversions. Not sure what more you can ask of a guy who hadn't played in a year and wasn't expecting a starting role. He looks like a strong free agent QB next offseason, someone's going to pick him up and play to his strengths.

SAR I

Stop making sense.

 

It makes no difference that the team lost the game with poor play throughout with these guys, its all about the QB no matter what happened during the game. They don't understand the game enough so say anything other than that. If they didn't have one of those ridiculous metric sites to refer too I'm not sure they would even be here arguing because what would they say ?

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Stop making sense.

 

It makes no difference that the team lost the game with poor play throughout with these guys, its all about the QB no matter what happened during the game. They don't understand the game enough so say anything other than that. If they didn't have one of those ridiculous metric sites to refer too I'm not sure they would even be here arguing because what would they say ?

 

How early in a game do you decide that nothing Sanchez does matters anymore?

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Please ..you gotta stop. I am a SAR I supporter mostly but you cant defend Mark anymore.  A pick with 2 minutes to go??  He plays scared.

It was 3rd down, he was trying to make a play and it got away from him.

Most quarterbacks chucking the rock 50 times a game will have a pick. It happens.

SAR I

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It was 3rd down, he was trying to make a play and it got away from him.

Most quarterbacks chucking the rock 50 times a game will have a pick. It happens To MS more than it should especially with a game on the line.

SAR I

Fixed

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Sanchez - He looks good often and can win with a  top 5 running game and top 5 defense...But when asked to win a game for you he way too often will make that one BIG mistake that costs you the game.

 

He often looks very good - but those mistakes are the reason I'm glad he's gone and the reason he should be an NFL back-up...

Prior to the awful 2012 Sparano season, Mark didn't make the "late mistake that will cost you the game" as a Jet. In fact, he made the "late big plays that won the game" like the epic comebacks of 2011 and the playoff win at Indianapolis and at New England.

What happened to him last night is a rarity, it was unfortunate, but it's not the reason the Eagles lost.

SAR I

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How early in a game do you decide that nothing Sanchez does matters anymore?

Hey if you ask me I think throwing the Int at the end was absolutely the deciding factor and a bad Sanchez mistake , But when do you decide a QB having a bad first half and leads his team on a comeback to win (like Sar 1 was explaining) is the other side of the coin, You try to tell us that Sanchez had to make those comebacks simply because he played bad early on. Damn near every QB with a lot of comeback wins has been in that situation but in your description its some kind of revelation you've discovered based on Sanchez doing it.

 

Sanchez is not doing that good a job, to be honest I expected more and I expected the Turnovers to cut down but they have not. Could it be his short time leading the offense ? Possibly ...either way I still think he has to prove he can lead a team without the bad turnovers. He seems to be much more accurate probably based on better personnel on offense but until he learns to stop the turnovers he will not be considered a good QB and that's pretty much the bottom line

.

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I'd pay so much money to watch this.

I'd pay money NOT to.

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Absolutely disagree on the bold.  Mark Sanchez is/was a turnover machine.  That's literally the worst thing you can be when running a G&P/ball-control offense.  We needed a 'game manager' and Sanchez's inability to protect the football made him a liability towards that.  While Mark Sanchez was able to lead some game winning drives, had he showed up for 60 minutes, protected the football, and helped move the offense, they wouldn't have been in those situations.  The teams those years were pretty damn good, and had the QB, regardless of strategy, been able to put up even league average performances, we'd have been a much better team.

 

If the stats, especially advanced ones, don't matter.  Then nothing really matters.  So, basically, anyone can say anything they want about him.  Fact is, six seasons, and he still has never been anything but a bottom third QB, even if he made some plays from time to time on great teams.

 

Rex Ryan is a problem.  That's right.  Where we differ is that I don't think that precludes Sanchez from also being a problem, as he still leads the league in turnovers during his time as a starter.

yoyo_zpsd443ce64.jpg

Run the Sanchez math on the turnovers during the 16-4 stretch when Rex Ryan's strategy was working. Let's see what that looks like vs. when Ryan's strategy wasn't working and the D and the Ground game were awful. I think you'll find that Mark was not a 'turnover machine' and was actually a hero, turning a 6-10 season into an 11-5 season bailing out Rex when the ground game did nothing and the D gave up late leads against Denver, Detroit, Houston, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.

Mark Sanchez is not a great quarterback, but he was Top 10 in a system that fits his style, no different than any other quarterback not named Brady, Manning, or Rodgers. When Rex was working, Mark was working. When Rex stopped working, Mark was asked to do too much and he failed. Yesterday, 50 attempts because of bad D and bad ST, not a surprise he made 1 bad throw.

SAR I

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Stop making sense.

 

It makes no difference that the team lost the game with poor play throughout with these guys, its all about the QB no matter what happened during the game. They don't understand the game enough so say anything other than that. If they didn't have one of those ridiculous metric sites to refer too I'm not sure they would even be here arguing because what would they say ?

It's the JFK Assasination, Smash.

If you believe that Oswald couldn't have acted alone, you make all the other clues add up to that belief. If you believe that Rex Ryan is a swell New Yorker and an all-around great drinking buddy who's sh-t don't stink, well, then Ground & Pound can't be the problem and the Shutdown D can't be the problem and the undiciplined play can't be the problem. Hmm. What can it be then? What could it be that is making my-pal-Rex look so bad?

Oh! Wait! I've got it! It's Mark Sanchez! Blame the 22 year old kid with Tony Sparano as an OC and 300 pound Shonn Greene as RB1 and Chaz Schillenz as WR2! Yeah, it's the quarterback! Buttfumble! Did you see that?!

He's Lee Harvey Oswald's Grassy Knoll.

SAR I

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Hey if you ask me I think throwing the Int at the end was absolutely the deciding factor and a bad Sanchez mistake , But when do you decide a QB having a bad first half and leads his team on a comeback to win (like Sar 1 was explaining) is the other side of the coin, You try to tell us that Sanchez had to make those comebacks simply because he played bad early on. Damn near every QB with a lot of comeback wins has been in that situation but in your description its some kind of revelation you've discovered based on Sanchez doing it.

 

Sanchez is not doing that good a job, to be honest I expected more and I expected the Turnovers to cut down but they have not. Could it be his short time leading the offense ? Possibly ...either way I still think he has to prove he can lead a team without the bad turnovers. He seems to be much more accurate probably based on better personnel on offense but until he learns to stop the turnovers he will not be considered a good QB and that's pretty much the bottom line

.

 

Bold is all you really need to say.

 

As for the comeback wins, they often (don't have stats) came because of poor performances.  Not because he won a shoot-out.  One of the main complaints I've had with Sanchez is that besides the turnovers, it seemed he almost never showed up for 60 minutes.  He, along with the offense, disappeared for long stretches.  You can't win like that over long stretches.

 

Also, most of the guys with a lot of comebacks, those close to Sanchez in those numbers, if I remember correctly, are guys that have played many more games then Sanchez.  I don't think that's a huge compliment to Sanchez, I think it's more product of having a defense that kept them in games they probably had no business being in.

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Run the Sanchez math on the turnovers during the 16-4 stretch when Rex Ryan's strategy was working. Let's see what that looks like vs. when Ryan's strategy wasn't working and the D and the Ground game were awful. I think you'll find that Mark was not a 'turnover machine' and was actually a hero, turning a 6-10 season into an 11-5 season bailing out Rex when the ground game did nothing and the D gave up late leads against Denver, Detroit, Houston, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh.

Mark Sanchez is not a great quarterback, but he was Top 10 in a system that fits his style, no different than any other quarterback not named Brady, Manning, or Rodgers. When Rex was working, Mark was working. When Rex stopped working, Mark was asked to do too much and he failed. Yesterday, 50 attempts because of bad D and bad ST, not a surprise he made 1 bad throw.

SAR I

 

When Rex was working, Mark was minimized.  Sooner or later, you can't hide the QB.  We saw what happened.  I'm not parsing out the stats based on the games we liked.  I will however say that during that 'heroic' era, the D rarely gave up over 20 points.  At best, you can win games with Sanchez, you're simply not going to win because of him.  At least not sustainably.  We have plenty of evidence to prove this.

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