JustInFudge Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 After watching that press conference last week bro, do you still think that that guy is such a chess player as to play such a game or did you see (like I did) a scared to death guy who knows that he is in way over his head and swimming as hard as he can to get out of the pull of a strong rip tide. he looks like a guy so afraid to make a mistake that he doesn't make ANY moves, lessening the chance that he'll get found out. John Idzik isn't slick enough to dream up a strategy like that just to get rid of Rex Ryan I was just ribbing Tom. He thinks Idzik didnt spend or draft well because he didnt want to prop up Rex. Essentially, sabotaging Rex. I think Idzik is clueless about every aspect of Football other than contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillybott Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Back to the original question, looking for proof: Exhibit A (Idzik) No explanation is really necessary, is there? Exhibit B (Ryan) If Ryan were actually a coach and not just a schemer, he'd have instilled enough player development within his coaching staff so that Kyle Wilson would be a servicable defensive player. He's be a guy who could put his natural talent to the task if he learned some NFL-basic fundamentals. (I pick on Wilson because it amazes me that he still backs away from almost every play he's anywhere near and 90% of the time he actually lets someone else make the tackle. If you look closely, even his tackle on the big return the other day almost looks like he tripped and just accidentally grabbed Thomas' leg on his way to the ground! I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but his fear of tackling gives me reason to doubt.) This is all about coaching, and Wilson's had no coaching or fundamental development in 4 and a half seasons, which is the only way a player could suck as badly as he does after having first round pedigrees. If Rex were a defensive coaching genius, Wilson would be a pro bowler starter! Rex is an X's and O's genius; he is not a coach - at all. These aren't the only reasons that could serve as proof (QB choices and QB development are also evidence against both?), but they're a couple of the glaring posterboy-type reasons that make me wonder how anyone could not find both of these guys grossly incompetent at doing the jobs they're actually being paid to do. Neither was hired to be a cap genius or a DC, but that's what they're both trying to keep doing under different job descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Rex Ryan worked his way to a Head Coaching job but he's "not a coach at all" and Kyle Wilson is proof. Jets fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 His first rounder is a safety. That's traditionally a lower value position. If he turns out to be an Ed Reed or a Troy Palumalu, it's a great pick. But if he's just a serviceable starter, it's not. Ditto the TE in the second round, it's another low value position that's only a great pick if the player turns out to be an upper echelon TE. He missed on the WR position, a much more highly rated position, in a very deep class. Ideally, you find those high value positions in the draft, and supplement with the lower valued positions (read: cheaper) in free agency. And out of the 5 of 12 draft picks who made the 53 man roster, those are the only two worth talking about. ok onto the draft. we actually have 5 out of 12 who are on the roster +2 who are on the IR list both of those players showed some good things before getting injured and we have one left on the practice squad bringing our number to 8 out of 12 players drafted who still have ties with the jets that moves the number to 2/3 or 66% of the draft that we still have. Pryor was going to be a first round pick who was also without a doubt a first round talent when we drafted him safety was a position of need for us unfortunately due to our entire cornerback roster being injured he is pulled out of his position of comfort and put into a role that he is not strong at. it is unfair to judge any rookie who hasn't been given atleast a full year to prove themselves let alone a rookie who is pulled out of his comfort zone due to an unfortunate series of injuries. pryor was also believed by many of the experts to be the best safety in the draft and it was believed that he could have been a top ten talent in the draft (the opinions of the experts mean little to me) give him some time and lets see how he plays when he doesn't need to cover down with crappy corners. Amaro our second round pick went up and down the charts between the second and third position for tight ends in the draft and has already showed a few good things, he has been dropping the ball more than i would like to see but he is also still a rookie and he has already made some big plays. again he needs some time to develop, one of the reasons we took him so early i think has something to do with the drop in talent at the position in the draft after him. Amaro would not have been there for our third round pick. McDougle our third round pick showed some really great things in the preseason games and no he was not perfect but you really cant expect a rookie to be. he unfortunately suffered from an injury that took him out for the year. this pick was questionable and we might have been able to get him later in the draft however id love to see him play healthy next year before i judge. Shaq Evens who is also on IR this season seemed to be the best WR we drafted and i would also like to see how he plays when he is healthy next year. IK was a late pick and he showed a couple of good things early in the preseason give him some time to develop before you say he is not worth talking about. Dozier we also got late in the draft he was basically an early fifth round pick as he was one of the last ones drafted in round four this guy was projected to be a second to third round talent and although he hasn't proven much yet if we give him time to develop he could end up being a steal. this for a lot of people was the best value pick the jets got in the draft. Riley was our seventh round pick and if i remember correctly he was a nightmare on special teams in college he might not ever be a pro bowl type of player but he was our last pick and i think he will contribute to the team just not be one of those players who gets in the spotlight. Enunwa a sixth round pick again you cant really expect much from a pick that late is still on our practice squad so maby next year he will show something in the off season or maby he will be cut either way he was a late pick and a pick that late is always a gamble anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 Back to the original question, looking for proof: Exhibit A (Idzik) No explanation is really necessary, is there? Exhibit B (Ryan) If Ryan were actually a coach and not just a schemer, he'd have instilled enough player development within his coaching staff so that Kyle Wilson would be a servicable defensive player. He's be a guy who could put his natural talent to the task if he learned some NFL-basic fundamentals. (I pick on Wilson because it amazes me that he still backs away from almost every play he's anywhere near and 90% of the time he actually lets someone else make the tackle. If you look closely, even his tackle on the big return the other day almost looks like he tripped and just accidentally grabbed Thomas' leg on his way to the ground! I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but his fear of tackling gives me reason to doubt.) This is all about coaching, and Wilson's had no coaching or fundamental development in 4 and a half seasons, which is the only way a player could suck as badly as he does after having first round pedigrees. If Rex were a defensive coaching genius, Wilson would be a pro bowler starter! Rex is an X's and O's genius; he is not a coach - at all. These aren't the only reasons that could serve as proof (QB choices and QB development are also evidence against both?), but they're a couple of the glaring posterboy-type reasons that make me wonder how anyone could not find both of these guys grossly incompetent at doing the jobs they're actually being paid to do. Neither was hired to be a cap genius or a DC, but that's what they're both trying to keep doing under different job descriptions. Kyle Wilson is a bust there is no doubt about that and maby the coaching staff is to blame for Wilson not living up to expectations but if that were the case how do you explain other corners around Wilson during his time as a jet who were able to play well here? every jet fan is disappointed in Wilson and i do constantly wonder how year after year he is still on the roster but i mean you cant expect even the best coaching staff to be able to develop every player...sometimes guys just give up after college and the biggest problem i have against the jets staff as a whole when it comes to Wilson is that they haven't cut their losses yet. as far as QBs go yes we have made some bad choices in hindsight but go back a few years if you will when they first drafted Sanchez were you not excited? did you not think that we made a good pick? after his first year when we were one game from the superbowl did you think he was going to turn into what he did? his second year when we went right back to the afc championship game did you not believe that the jets could finally win their second superbowl? what is unfortunate with sanchez is that we were not able to give him weapons and an offensive line that could protect him long enough for him to make good decisions. he took to many sacks became uncomfortable was torn apart by the media and couldn't handle it. then we got geno with a second round pick, geno was supposed to be the best qb in the draft although the draft was weak at the qb position i don't think their intention was to start him last year however sanchez went down with an injury and geno went in. geno showed a few good things tword the end of last season and looked as if he improved before our season opener. in hindsight these qbs were bad decisions but who would have known honestly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 Rex Ryan worked his way to a Head Coaching job but he's "not a coach at all" and Kyle Wilson is proof. Jets fan. because Kyle Wilson not living up to expectations and being uncoachable means that everyone who was supposed to develop this one individual is terrible.. i think i get it now thanks for the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is all about coaching, and Wilson's had no coaching or fundamental development in 4 and a half seasons, which is the only way a player could suck as badly as he does after having first round pedigrees. If Rex were a defensive coaching genius, Wilson would be a pro bowler starter! Rex is an X's and O's genius; he is not a coach - at all. This is certainly 100% true. Every other first rounder in the history of the NFL has lived up to expectations, but not Wilson. There has to be a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Can't believe Idzik blew that Kyle Wilson pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Kyle Wilson >>> CBs who aren't healthy enough to stay on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 where is the proof that Idzik is a bad GM and Rex is a bad HC? . Thanks for teeing it up for me - Go here Sunday at 1:00 - you'll need no more proof https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.81284,-74.074209&z=15&cid=9332628364940613428&q=metlife+stadium&output=classic&dg=ntvo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillybott Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Kyle Wilson is a bust there is no doubt about that and maby the coaching staff is to blame for Wilson not living up to expectations but if that were the case how do you explain other corners around Wilson during his time as a jet who were able to play well here? every jet fan is disappointed in Wilson and i do constantly wonder how year after year he is still on the roster but i mean you cant expect even the best coaching staff to be able to develop every player...sometimes guys just give up after college and the biggest problem i have against the jets staff as a whole when it comes to Wilson is that they haven't cut their losses yet. as far as QBs go yes we have made some bad choices in hindsight but go back a few years if you will when they first drafted Sanchez were you not excited? did you not think that we made a good pick? after his first year when we were one game from the superbowl did you think he was going to turn into what he did? his second year when we went right back to the afc championship game did you not believe that the jets could finally win their second superbowl? what is unfortunate with sanchez is that we were not able to give him weapons and an offensive line that could protect him long enough for him to make good decisions. he took to many sacks became uncomfortable was torn apart by the media and couldn't handle it. then we got geno with a second round pick, geno was supposed to be the best qb in the draft although the draft was weak at the qb position i don't think their intention was to start him last year however sanchez went down with an injury and geno went in. geno showed a few good things tword the end of last season and looked as if he improved before our season opener. in hindsight these qbs were bad decisions but who would have known honestly? If Rex is really the defensive COACHING genius that people claim he is, then the young players we've drafted in his tenure should show some kind of development. We can talk about AFC championship games all day, but the players who dictated much of the outcome of those games were coached under the previous regime. Sanchez was "Rex's big star player" (only because he and Rex arrived at the same time so Sanchez received no formation from the Mangini years) in those games, and his performance steadily declined over his time with the Jets. You betcha I was excited when we picked Sanchez. I heard the story about his reading defensive formations while answering trigonometry questions that his dad barked at him....I'm a match teacher, so effin cool, man. Then I watched the guy go from a lousy rookie to an absolutely terrible 4th and almost 5th year player. I think your use of Sanchez, and the hype around his draft, and his eventual implosion demonstrates the alck of coaching extremely well! Too many players who have come in under Ryan have not only failed to live up to expectations, they have actually declined in their production upon arrival here. You mentioned CBs who have played well here. Yeah, there were two of them (arguably two....I never felt comfortable with Cro out there. he was good for getting burned badly at least one per game): Revis and Cromartie, and they were both developed under someone other than Rex. How many other CBs can you say have really flourished as members of the Jets in the past 6 years? Sanchez, Wilson, and Geno are three of the biggest examples of young players who have not been properly developed, but then there are throwaways from this year's draft who may still be here if we had any sort of developmental NFL coaching at all. We may never know with some of those guys, because we never saw what they would have done here. Here's something I put together in terms of general fundamentals of the team - beyond individual players' numbers. OFF Rank (Pts) OFF Rank (Yds) DEF Rank (Pts) DEF Rank (Yds) Total Penalties YAC Allowed/game 2009 17th 20th 1st 1st 24th 1st 2010 13th 11th 6th 3rd 27th 4th 2011 13th 25th 20th 5th 14th 10th 2012 28th 30th 20th 8th 3rd 1st 2013 29th 25th 19th 11th 20th 15th 2014 (so far) 30th 25th 31st 6th 25th 8th (O and D ranks: http://www.pro-football-reference.com, Penalty #s: http://www.nflpenalties.com, YAC: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-yards-after-catch-allowed) I don't know what's worse, that these sites are out there or that I found and used them.... So what does this all say about Rex? Does this make him the worst coach ever? Not really - but does it show areas that have greatly declined since he took over the team? I think so. More importantly for me is the fact that he's touted as this "defensive genius of a coach" while the team's defense has - from those numbers - become, well, "Meh." The best way I can say it is he's a schemer, not a coach. I am sick and tired of trick plays and elaborate defensive schemes made necessary because the personnel hasn't been trained to do their basic jobs. I want to see solid fundamentals, and we get very little of that. Somehow he managed to "trick up" some better number in 2012 even when going 6-10....but the basic skills still continued to decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Kyle Wilson >>> CBs who aren't healthy enough to stay on the field Shoulder injuries are predictive of leg injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillybott Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 This is certainly 100% true. Every other first rounder in the history of the NFL has lived up to expectations, but not Wilson. There has to be a reason for that. Notice I conditioned my statement on the claim that Rex is a genius of a defensive coach (or even a capable coach). I know absolutes and the dangers of using them, but the miraculous claims of Rex's abilities should in fact live up to the expectations that a 1st pick who remains with the team into his 6th year will actually play like a 1st rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Shoulder injuries are predictive of leg injuries. Milliner had five different surgeries during college, including one or two on his leg(s). The one game he missed was do to a hip injury. McDougle had two college seasons end early because of injuries. Injury prone players get injured. It shouldn't come as a surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Milliner had five different surgeries during college, including one or two on his leg(s). The one game he missed was do to a hip injury. McDougle had two college seasons end early because of injuries. Injury prone players get injured. It shouldn't come as a surprise. By this standard, you'd be fielding no one at CB though. Assuming Idzik keeps his job, he does have to take into account character and injury history more than he's done. He's gambled and been burned way too much with these short-term signings (which is why they were available short-term). In regards to Milliner, he was being abused when he was healthy anyway, with zero confidence and sh*t technique. The coaching overall has been poor, regardless of anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 i like Rex but if after all this time you cant see that his balls have been cut off you and his blitz scheme is overrated and easily beaten by a QB that can get ball out fast then you need to gtfo. If you can't see that Idzick is playing a crap game with the draft you need to gtfo. If you still want to think the Matt Simms aint the best QB on the roster right now and the Jets coaches are terrible talent evaluaters you need to gtfo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 In regards to Milliner, he was being abused when he was healthy anyway, with zero confidence and sh*t technique. dee milliner looked awesome in the last 4 games of last year. by the way here is the proof that Idzik is a bad GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 dee milliner looked awesome in the last 4 games of last year. by the way here is the proof that Idzik is a bad GM Other GMs must be salivating at the thought of getting a piece of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 They needed to drop pamplets in Florham Park Fire Idzik to complete the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 here is the proof that Idzik is a bad GM I don't think that's what "proof" means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Corner: The guy who the Jets weren't willing to budge on the salary has been sucking (DRC) The guys whose offer we matched, but chose somewhere else, has been killing it (verner and davis) Horrible talent evaluator, that idizk. LETS BUY A BILLBOARD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Corner: The guy who the Jets weren't willing to budge on the salary has been sucking (DRC) The guys whose offer we matched, but chose somewhere else, has been killing it (verner and davis) Horrible talent evaluator, that idizk. LETS BUY A BILLBOARD I think you have your "facts" are a bit off. Idzik never die more than "inquire" about Verner. Didn't have him in for a visit or anything. Most of the talk about him coming here came from Verner saying he'd be a good fit to take over from Revis and Cro. I remember it pretty clearly because we all expected him to go after Verner hard when he struck out on Davis and we did nothing. He went after DRC, but cheaped out. Considering the money he paid Patterson, his talent evaluation at CB has been abysmal and that is not even getting into WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Other GMs must be salivating at the thought of getting a piece of that. Yes. Like the guy who hopes he gets the job as the janitor at the cholera clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 I think you have your "facts" are a bit off. Idzik never die more than "inquire" about Verner. Didn't have him in for a visit or anything. Most of the talk about him coming here came from Verner saying he'd be a good fit to take over from Revis and Cro. I remember it pretty clearly because we all expected him to go after Verner hard when he struck out on Davis and we did nothing. He went after DRC, but cheaped out. Considering the money he paid Patterson, his talent evaluation at CB has been abysmal and that is not even getting into WR. please do get into the WRs he brought in decker who at the time was the best one in free agency, once we had decker he still inquired about Jackson but backed off maby he thought we didn't need another WR maby he planned on taking beckham jr in the draft or maby Jackson just didn't want to play for the jets when he had other options who knows but we didn't get him. during the season after we lost 6 of our 7 games played he made a trade for Harvin that involved literally no risk and could still yield a lot of reward (120 yards receiving last game). Harvin might not be Jackson but he is still very talented and despite all the problems everyone seems to be bringing up he has yet to act up in a jets uniform. a lot of people are looking at this trade as a desperation move of idzik trying to save his own ass but the way i look at it is he made a move that will be beneficial for our team at the right time when he could get a great player at a relatively low cost. he also gave kerly a much earned extention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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