Connor_J_Hughes Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Two years in, here's a look at how John Idzik has done compared to the 31 other NFL general managers in their first seasons. (Link) John Idzik general manager comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Do you draw a conclusion for Idzik anywhere in the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor_J_Hughes Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Do you draw a conclusion for Idzik anywhere in the article? In the article, no. This was just meant to give the facts and the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Interesting stuff, Connor. I think what can be deduced here is that two years on the job reveals very little about the long-term viability of any new GM if you're using the team's record as a barometer. The most successful new GMs either inherited or immediately acquired a big QB (with the exception of the Chiefs). The rest of them are in a position where they have to draft one, while finding the head coach that can create an environment that brings that player along. Tough business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's only difficult to come to a conclusion on Idzik if, for some difficult to identify psychological reason, you're refusing to come to the conclusion that the guy is in way over his head as a GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 He inherited a very Poor roster, got rid of the obvious trash we had, and cleared money from our poor overpriced dross Sanchez, Holmes. He traded Revis (Woody decision). Had one major Hit in the Draft, Richardson, more luck then management. Then in Year two had one of the worst Drafts I've seen kept all 12 picks never traded up for the numerous top Receiver prospects, in a mega stacked Drafted. His real down fall was rounds 3 and 4, Dexter McDougle, Mr Injury, and a guy what would have been around later in the Draft, and the selection of Jalen Saunders, was just mind blowing. He seems to be a complete Woody yes man and even the Harvin thing smacks of Woody. It almost makes me crave the return of Trader Mike, we should be drafting top Ten (please), and do we trust him to pick our next Q.B? - Not me, We need some more Ugly Beat Downs loses, to push that Numb Skull Woody into Firing both, so we can start fresh. I was with Idizik up to that Press Conference, and the Babble Bull Sh*t told me the guy is a yes man, and has no Balls, he's just a Woody stooge the guy is clueless. The guy got a very poor talent wise Roster, and has not managed to improve it at all, which was difficult considering outside the D-Line this teams is average in some places, and Burger Flipper Street player bad in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It's only difficult to come to a conclusion on Idzik if, for some difficult to identify psychological reason, you're refusing to come to the conclusion that the guy is in way over his head as a GM. The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. HA ha ha and you call Rex apologists.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkvFh5Ehcak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. You are coming around Add Calvin Pryor and Shaq Evans as well Missing on about 15 Wr's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. 6. His 3.125 wins/season average so far over a span of 26 games. When he gets two full seasons under his belt you will have the minimum sample of work necessary to make statistically valid future assumptions of team's success under his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 6. His 3.125 wins/season average so far over a span of 26 games. When he gets two full seasons under his belt you will have the minimum sample of work necessary to make statistically valid future assumptions of team's success under his control. Is Jerry Reese a great GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Missing on about 15 Wr's Big Bruce Ellington fan are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Is Jerry Reese a great GM? 2 Superbowls in 6 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 2 Superbowls in 6 years? The coach and the QB were in place before he took the job. Using wins is dubious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. So basically what you're saying is..he's in over head because.. 1) He took a job with a bad owner? 2) He took a job with a bad owner? 3) He made a bad pick in the 6th round 4) He missed on a 4th round WR 5) Cheap FA's that didn't pan out... The one thing you don't mention is the Harvin move - that was, by far, the worst thing he did...but again, I'm absolutely convinced it was a woody move. Woody may very well be the worst owner in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The coach and the QB were in place before he took the job. Using wins is dubious The coach and QB were about this close to being run out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The coach and QB were about this close to being run out of town. By the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So basically what you're saying is..he's in over head because.. 1) He took a job with a bad owner? 2) He took a job with a bad owner? 3) He made a bad pick in the 6th round 4) He missed on a 4th round WR 5) Cheap FA's that didn't pan out... The one thing you don't mention is the Harvin move - that was, by far, the worst thing he did...but again, I'm absolutely convinced it was a woody move. Woody may very well be the worst owner in the NFL. Yes, but I like the Harvin move. Low risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The evidence that he's in over his head is thus: 1. He agreed to take the job with Rex Ryan attached to it. 2. He kept Rex Ryan for the 2014 season. 3. He let Rex Ryan pick Tajh Boyd. 4. Jalen Saunders. 5. Dmitri Patterson and Mike Goodson. you dont think picking Geno in his 1st year and force feeding him was not a colosal mistake. Considering the holes in OL and no offensive weapons keeping any team from stacking the box. Considering it usually takes WR 2-3 to develop ... he did not address it at all. Instead he gambled with yours and mine Sundays. He gambled on Geno Woodson Ivory Milliner Richardson and 3 OL (4 if u count FA) all late round scrubs that were not going to lite it up day 1 of all that Ivory worked out but he is not a feature back and still has injury history and runs hot and cold Richardson worked out but the team could have been more competative with some Offensive help Milliner has not worked out at all and chances are now he may never - Revis can come back from something like that because he has the work ethic...Milliner he has a 25% chance making it back ditto for that 3rd round reach of last year. And I am only getting into his 1st year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 By the media. And everyone that bled blue with a pulse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Yes, but I like the Harvin move. Low risk. It was a waste of $7mm in cap space....Risk isn't a factor, just throwing away $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 And everyone that bled blue with a pulse. The fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 It was a waste of $7mm in cap space....Risk isn't a factor, just throwing away $$$ Next year's $50+ mil cap space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What I find pretty sad is that our fanbase is defending this idiot we hired two years ago while Giants fans are sick of the last couple seasons and are talking about firing Reese whose responsible for putting together SB champ teams that win every 3 years. That's the difference in mentality in a fanbase that is used to losing and a fanbase that won't tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 you dont think picking Geno in his 1st year and force feeding him was not a colosal mistake. Considering the holes in OL and no offensive weapons keeping any team from stacking the box. Considering it usually takes WR 2-3 to develop ... he did not address it at all. Instead he gambled with yours and mine Sundays. He gambled on Geno Woodson Ivory Milliner Richardson and 3 OL (4 if u count FA) all late round scrubs that were not going to lite it up day 1 of all that Ivory worked out but he is not a feature back and still has injury history and runs hot and cold Richardson worked out but the team could have been more competative with some Offensive help Milliner has not worked out at all and chances are now he may never - Revis can come back from something like that because he has the work ethic...Milliner he has a 25% chance making it back ditto for that 3rd round reach of last year. And I am only getting into his 1st year. Geno washed out like Sanchez washed out, but Geno was the best player on the board at a position of great need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Next year's $50+ mil cap space? So the $7mm isn't useful? $7mm in cap money is a huge amount of money - I don't care how much space you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What I find pretty sad is that our fanbase is defending this idiot we hired two years ago while Giants fans are sick of the last couple seasons and are talking about firing Reese whose responsible for putting together SB champ teams that win every 3 years. That's the difference in mentality in a fanbase that is used to losing and a fanbase that won't tolerate it. The Giants were winning titles every five years or so before Reese got there. I think Reese is a good GM, but he's got a ton of misses on his resume. All GMs do. That team sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 So the $7mm isn't useful? $7mm in cap money is a huge amount of money - I don't care how much space you have. Unless you were planning on signing Peyton Manning next offseason, you weren't getting close to spending to the cap. It's a worthy gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The Giants were winning titles every five years or so before Reese got there. I think Reese is a good GM, but he's got a ton of misses on his resume. All GMs do. That team sucks. We win once every 50 years. I think we both are in agreement now that it's time for Idzik to pack up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 We win once every 50 years. I think we both are in agreement now that it's time for Idzik to pack up. I definitely don't think firing Idzik is the right move, unless it's part of some package deal which results in us getting a Parcells-type overseer plus a big head coach, which isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Unless you were planning on signing Peyton Manning next offseason, you weren't getting close to spending to the cap. It's a worthy gamble You say gamble like there was an upside...What was the upside? I saw a no-win situation... If they made the trade at the beginning of the year and or if they had a legit shot at a playoff run I would be all for it, but under the circumstances the ONLY reason for a move like that was PR....and any team that runs their organization based upon what the media wants will ALWAYS be a terrible organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SickJetFan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Geno washed out like Sanchez washed out, but Geno was the best player on the board at a position of great need. Well reality has shown he was not BPA but even at the time why was every other team passing on him? Buffalo took a projected 5th rounder over him. Then as we all watch the drama of him almost losing his sh*t on TV, firing his agent..this all from casual observer...idziot met with on a number of occasions I bet, they had extensive interviews etc...tryouts....he had all the inside info..you state him as a value pick from mock drafts...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I definitely don't think firing Idzik is the right move, unless it's part of some package deal which results in us getting a Parcells-type overseer plus a big head coach, which isn't happening. We're in a agreement here. Unless they're getting a big time, experienced, championship GM OR a Harbaugh type and have to give him full control - you don't fire a GM after year two of a rebuild project, especially when year one was all about getting out of cap hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I definitely don't think firing Idzik is the right move, unless it's part of some package deal which results in us getting a Parcells-type overseer plus a big head coach, which isn't happening. I really think it would be insanity to give an unproven guy with a .300 winning percentage a third year. That's a SOJ move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You say gamble like there was an upside...What was the upside? I saw a no-win situation... If they made the trade at the beginning of the year and or if they had a legit shot at a playoff run I would be all for it, but under the circumstances the ONLY reason for a move like that was PR....and any team that runs their organization based upon what the media wants will ALWAYS be a terrible organization. Harvin is an extremely talented young player that they just picked up for a mid-round pick, and whom they have some leverage with. The upside is great, if he likes NY and gets his head together even a little bit. The downside is that he's cut, you lose a 6th, and you have 43+ million in cap space. If there's one thing that's clear, it's that John Idzik doesn't give a rat's ass what the fanbase thinks about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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