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The cost of trading up?


bergenjets
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Snacks Harrison is a possibility then.  He has value. 

 

As for Harvin, I don't even know if we could trade him or modify his contract THEN trade him, and what the draft pick compensation to Seattle would look like if we did that.  Technically he would be off of our roster but benefiting from it likely crosses some contract clause.   

 

The only thing I do know is, Tennessee, if they chose to, could afford it.  

If you're trading snacks, then you've got to get Ellis under contract. Snacks is under control for a couple more years and a heck of a player. I'd probably trade MO before Snacks.  Unless you plan to move to a  4-3. THen your 3-4 NT is less important. If you move to 4-3 then you trade Snacks to a team running a 3-4 and keep Wilkerson, Sheldon, Coples and throw in TJ Barnes/Ellis or some other piece tot he puzzle.

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Mo's a very good player but he hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet less All Pro..LOL And I mean 1st team not alternate stuff..

 

Fair enough. He was 2nd team all pro last year. Doesn't change my argument one bit though. If anything, we may be able to resign him to a slightly cheaper contract than one would have expected.

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Fair enough. He was 2nd team all pro last year. Doesn't change my argument one bit though. If anything, we may be able to resign him to a slightly cheaper contract than one would have expected.

Not now, the market for DTs have gone thru the roof. At the beginning of the season I thought he would come in around 9mill a year, After Mccoy, Watt etc this year, he will want around 12.

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I don't get these idiotic suggestions of trading away Snacks or Mo. Seriously people? We rarely find a gem in the UDFA and people are willing to let him go. How often do we draft 2nd team All-Pros? We are willing to trade away these players to pick a QB that may even slip to the middle of the first round? Our DL is one of the youngest and best in the league. I don't see a need to disrupt that in order to draft a QB that should be available at our original pick.

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Not now, the market for DTs have gone thru the roof. At the beginning of the season I thought he would come in around 9mill a year, After Mccoy, Watt etc this year, he will want around 12.

 

We hold all the cards in his negotiations. We have him for 2015 for what, like 7 mil? We can tag him in 2016 for probably around 10-12mil. We get two more years out of him for under $20mil and get an even better picture of what type of player he would be in the future and pay him accordingly.

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We hold all the cards in his negotiations. We have him for 2015 for what, like 7 mil? We can tag him in 2016 for probably around 10-12mil. We get two more years out of him for under $20mil and get an even better picture of what type of player he would be in the future and pay him accordingly

 

We have lost leverage with Wilkerson. 

 

The Franchise Tag is going to rise to around 14m for Dlineman after some of these huge contracts. 

 

There is no way we are paying Mo 14m for 1 year. Hes simply not that good. 

 

John Idzik should have been proactive and locked this guy up WAY before he was this close to Free Agency. 

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We hold all the cards in his negotiations. We have him for 2015 for what, like 7 mil? We can tag him in 2016 for probably around 10-12mil. We get two more years out of him for under $20mil and get an even better picture of what type of player he would be in the future and pay him accordingly.

 

No, the jets have some leverage. Yes he can play for 7.5 next year and around 15mill the year after. Remember Watt and Suh will get around 18mill and Mccoy is a litle over 16mill, and the tag is the average of the top 5 DT. Now let see if the jets aref ready to compte for the division in 2016 and He holds out like Mankins for the first 8-10 games.

Richardson is a FA the following year, Harrison is also a FA going into 2016. Now what is the jets leverage? Once again, Idsik had a chance to lock him up for Geno Atkins money (10mill) and did not do it.

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We have lost leverage with Wilkerson. 

 

The Franchise Tag is going to rise to around 14m for Dlineman after some of these huge contracts. 

 

There is no way we are paying Mo 14m for 1 year. Hes simply not that good. 

 

John Idzik should have been proactive and locked this guy up WAY before he was this close to Free Agency. 

 

I disagree with that point. He is easily a top 5 right now. Although I don't know how he would be without Rex running D.

 

Now that I look at the tag figure (14+ mil in 2015 and probably 15+mil in 2016), we need to lock up Mo this off season. We do have some leverage, not much but some, which is the 7mil salary he has for 2015.

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We control Wilkerson for at least two more years so he either needs to be somewhat reasonable now or roll the dice on possible injury in return for his huge payday down the road.

 

Send him tape of the Leon Washington game.

 

I would grab Cooper now and take a QB long shot this year in the later rounds.  We have the money to overpay Hoyer and at least stop the bleeding in the short term at QB.  Who knows maybe we get lucky find our Carr or Wilson in the later rounds AND have a decent starter in Hoyer next year.

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x 1,000  The next in a never ending line of QB busts

No Kidding

 

After listening to this guy talk for all of 10 seconds how in the hell could anyone push for the Jets to sign him ?

 

Most QB's that come into the NFL have good to above average arms and can make all the throws ... They usually get judged by their smarts and the amount of work they put in in the video room. You don't just step on the field and become a good QB you have to work on it and usually its much more than the physical attributes that make a QB great. Peyton Manning never had the best arm or the best footwork but his smarts make him one of the best same thing with Tom Brady although Tom has a much stronger arm both these guys put in the work it takes to succeed can anyone see Winston doing that ?

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x 1,000  The next in a never ending line of QB busts

I think his bust potential is much less than Marroita. Winston comes from a pro set and has played a lot less.  He has thrown 1/2 of the passes that Marriotta has. Winston is much to Immature at this time to take the reigns of a NFL team. He needs to sit a year under a mentor type QB, not somebody like Vick,  What a prospect you would have if you could combine the traits of these two guys

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We control Wilkerson for at least two more years so he either needs to be somewhat reasonable now or roll the dice on possible injury in return for his huge payday down the road.

Send him tape of the Leon Washington game.

I would grab Cooper now and take a QB long shot this year in the later rounds. We have the money to overpay Hoyer and at least stop the bleeding in the short term at QB. Who knows maybe we get lucky find our Carr or Wilson in the later rounds AND have a decent starter in Hoyer next year.

We don't need cap space to sign Hoyer. He's not breaking the bank. He's been pretty bad as of late n I feel Geno is as good if not better. Remember, Hoyer has been in the league for 6-7 yrs, mostly learning from one of the best. He's peaked I believe. Geno hasn't learned from anyone n still playing as good. I think Geno plays better next yr if we keep Percy OR give him Cooper.

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We don't need cap space to sign Hoyer. He's not breaking the bank. He's been pretty bad as of late n I feel Geno is as good if not better. Remember, Hoyer has been in the league for 6-7 yrs, mostly learning from one of the best. He's peaked I believe. Geno hasn't learned from anyone n still playing as good. I think Geno plays better next yr if we keep Percy OR give him Cooper.

Understood Hoyer will be reasonable and that we have money.  Still I think we will probably haver to overpay in years which we may end up eating in order to entice him.

 

Sorry I am not buying the Geno opinion at all.  He is dumb as a doorpost and he is inaccurate to boot, both of which are QB killers in this league but taken together they pretty much ensure he will be bottom-5 for as long as his career lasts (not very long).  I think Hoyer might be as good as middle third of the league and should be a decent stop gap

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We have lost leverage with Wilkerson. 

 

The Franchise Tag is going to rise to around 14m for Dlineman after some of these huge contracts. 

 

There is no way we are paying Mo 14m for 1 year. Hes simply not that good. 

 

John Idzik should have been proactive and locked this guy up WAY before he was this close to Free Agency. 

 

What would you have expected Idzik to do?  Mo's agent knows the same things you do, I suspect probably a little more.  It wasn't like he was going to take a major discount to extend his contract sooner.  The prudent thing to do is to keep him at the low cost as long as you can....and then be in a position to keep him when his contract is up...

 

BUT....Jet fans don't understand the managing of cap space and put up billboards to fire people for trying to build a long term successful organization.

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Lots of people seem to think that Connor Cook will change his mind once he finds out he could be a top ten pick. That'd shake things up just a bit for the Jets at 4.

 

That's really interesting...I hadn't heard that - three top 10 QB prospects and picking 4th would certainly strengthen their draft position.

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Understood Hoyer will be reasonable and that we have money.  Still I think we will probably haver to overpay in years which we may end up eating in order to entice him.

 

Sorry I am not buying the Geno opinion at all.  He is dumb as a doorpost and he is inaccurate to boot, both of which are QB killers in this league but taken together they pretty much ensure he will be bottom-5 for as long as his career lasts (not very long).  I think Hoyer might be as good as middle third of the league and should be a decent stop gap

 

Hoyer is not a middle third. Sorry, I completely disagree there. Hoyer hasn't shown anything more than what Geno has shown. I don't mind bringing him in for some competition for the backup spot. 7 ints and ZERO TDs in his last 3 games (since Gordon's return). Geno on the other hand has shown improvement over the last 3 wks. Completed 60% of his passes, averaged 214 yards passing with 3 TDs and 2 ints. He's been very careful with the ball, throwing a pick after like 80 attempts or something. 

 

Stats don't tell the whole story, but I watched all the games (Im sure u did too). I know for a fact Geno improved. He matured over that time and I think the benching helped him. Was he great? No. Was he average? Yes. Was Hoyer average? Not even close. This is being a "what have you done for me lately" league, I think Geno deserves a spot on the roster for next yr to compete against whoever we bring in for the starting role. I know you don't like that idea, but is there a QB in the 2015 FA that will blow us away? Nope, although if Glennon is available, he'd be a far better option than Hoyer to be the game manager. 

 

Hoyer will be lucky to get more than 2-2.5mil a yr deal from anyone. 

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No Kidding

 

After listening to this guy talk for all of 10 seconds how in the hell could anyone push for the Jets to sign him ?

 

Most QB's that come into the NFL have good to above average arms and can make all the throws ... They usually get judged by their smarts and the amount of work they put in in the video room. You don't just step on the field and become a good QB you have to work on it and usually its much more than the physical attributes that make a QB great. Peyton Manning never had the best arm or the best footwork but his smarts make him one of the best same thing with Tom Brady although Tom has a much stronger arm both these guys put in the work it takes to succeed can anyone see Winston doing that ?

 

Don't confuse a country twang and immaturity for stupidity.  I want no part of Winston but the kid is not stupid.

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What would you have expected Idzik to do?  Mo's agent knows the same things you do, I suspect probably a little more.  It wasn't like he was going to take a major discount to extend his contract sooner.  The prudent thing to do is to keep him at the low cost as long as you can....and then be in a position to keep him when his contract is up...

 

BUT....Jet fans don't understand the managing of cap space and put up billboards to fire people for trying to build a long term successful organization.

most here understand this team needed to get out of cap hell and no one here bashed idzik for managing the cap and putting us in a decent position. Most of that was due to what was already in place but idzik did not make it worse so that's a credit to him.

 

Problem is that's the only credit. He's had 2 terrible drafts with a terrible keeper rate and it seems he does not have the talent knowledge needed to succeed at the job. Biggest red flag was in a draft loaded with WR talent he completely whiffed waiting for the 4th round to dig in, ignoring recievers we now see tearing up the NFL and will for years to come .  Everyone seemed to know the Jets needed to make a WR splash in this draft except Idzik.

 

You can't fail that bad and expect to keep your job. When a team is in need at a specific position sometimes you get stuck paying a premium for he FA talent available. If you don't pay your left with Gaping holes. I was not too disappointed because I knew the Jets were not going to contend this year but the reality is they quite possible could have contended with some good moves at W$R and CB they chose to go the cheap route at both positions (other than Decker) and they paid the price. In todays NFL you can win NOW the days of the 3-5 year rebuilding plan are long over and I simply do not trust idzik with a top pick or with 44 mil under the cap.

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Don't confuse a country twang and immaturity for stupidity.  I want no part of Winston but the kid is not stupid.

I didn't confuse anything trust me. Maybe he can recover in college games and play clutch in the end but that = losses in the NFL. Also, Immaturity, when teams are looking at you to lead the franchise is unacceptable and it does play a factor as to whether this kid will be drafted early or slip down the draft board like dopey Geno Smith. If these guys don't know whats at stake in their lives and their career then they are not very bright, age is not an excuse and being immature when you need to step up and lead men at the next level is not going to impress any NFL GM's  

 

Mariota is the clear choice between the 2

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most here understand this team needed to get out of cap hell and no one here bashed idzik for managing the cap and putting us in a decent position. Most of that was due to what was already in place but idzik did not make it worse so that's a credit to him.

 

Problem is that's the only credit. He's had 2 terrible drafts with a terrible keeper rate and it seems he does not have the talent knowledge needed to succeed at the job. Biggest red flag was in a draft loaded with WR talent he completely whiffed waiting for the 4th round to dig in, ignoring recievers we now see tearing up the NFL and will for years to come .  Everyone seemed to know the Jets needed to make a WR splash in this draft except Idzik.

 

You can't fail that bad and expect to keep your job. When a team is in need at a specific position sometimes you get stuck paying a premium for he FA talent available. If you don't pay your left with Gaping holes. I was not too disappointed because I knew the Jets were not going to contend this year but the reality is they quite possible could have contended with some good moves at W$R and CB they chose to go the cheap route at both positions (other than Decker) and they paid the price. In todays NFL you can win NOW the days of the 3-5 year rebuilding plan are long over and I simply do not trust idzik with a top pick or with 44 mil under the cap.

 

I'm wasn't attempting to give him credit for cleaning up Tanny's mess but pointing to the fact that his first year was a throw away...This year was his first to make any impact...Fact is he's built a sound base and got a few draft picks injured.  It's not like it's been a total failure.....it's way too early to judge his two drafts.  His FA signings have been mostly solid  - a 2014  900 yard receiver (with the worst QB in the league) and a very solid RB in Ivory

 

With that said he missed  in one HUGE place and that's his QB....Had Gone not been the worst QB in the league for two years this team would be very competitive and people wouldn't be buying billboards...Idzik does not deserve to be fired let alone the abuse he's taken this year...

 

He's been actually quite competent but caught some bad breaks and unfortunately for all of us..he's dealing with a hostile media and easily manipulated fan base...He's been the only GM I can remember with a long term plan to build a successful franchise and not simply trying to win 10 games and hope for a miracle.

 

Everything else is media driven BS....

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I'm wasn't attempting to give him credit for cleaning up Tanny's mess but pointing to the fact that his first year was a throw away...This year was his first to make any impact...Fact is he's built a sound base and got a few draft picks injured.  It's not like it's been a total failure.....it's way too early to judge his two drafts.  His FA signings have been mostly solid  - a 2014  900 yard receiver (with the worst QB in the league) and a very solid RB in Ivory

 

With that said he missed  in one HUGE place and that's his QB....Had Gone not been the worst QB in the league for two years this team would be very competitive and people wouldn't be buying billboards...Idzik does not deserve to be fired let alone the abuse he's taken this year...

 

He's been actually quite competent but caught some bad breaks and unfortunately for all of us..he's dealing with a hostile media and easily manipulated fan base...He's been the only GM I can remember with a long term plan to build a successful franchise and not simply trying to win 10 games and hope for a miracle.

 

Everything else is media driven BS....

I think you're trying to hard to convince yourself that you're not being manipulated. That you're somehow superior to other fans. Idzik has been terrible. We'll all be a lot better off without him.

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Frankly I'm sour on both of them

Mariota is a player that shouldn't start right away because he needs to learn a pro style offense. That will not happen in New York.

Winston has too many concerns for this town.

I agree about marriotta, he needs a year at least. I understand the concerns about Winston, but I still want him. I'll take a QB who's only knock is character concerns

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